Sleep issues

For quite a few years now, I’ve been struggling with sleep issues—problems that actually traced back to one brief episode of insomnia. It was short-lived, yet somehow catastrophic, because ever since then, I’ve developed this irrational fear of going to bed. Actually, looking back, it isn't entirely irrational—I am terrified of the fact that I won't be able to fall asleep, which does happen from time to time—so my primary method of prevention is simply waiting until I am absolutely, physically exhausted before attempting to turn in.
Ultimately, I don't have any sort of healthy routine; I spend most of my time sleep-deprived and living in a constant mental fog, which I usually try to compensate for by catching up on sleep during my days off.
I still manage to function, though I have noticed that my scores on intelligence tests have been steadily declining lately—I suspect there might be some kind of secret connection there.
However, I recently recovered from a bout of the flu—mostly just staying curled up in bed at regular intervals—and now my sleep rhythm has become truly bizarre. For several days now, I’ve been drifting off around 6:00 PM, and depending on whether it's a workday or not, I’ll either settle in right then or perhaps a bit later. Usually, I leave the TV running and the lights on—it looks like a scene out of a Christmas movie in here. Then, I find myself waking up around 3:00 AM, if not earlier. I end up being somewhat semi-active—watching a movie, surfing the web, and things of that nature—and then I might squeeze in another couple of hours before dawn, or maybe I won't.
Why am I even writing this? Because I find it fascinating that I am actually getting plenty of sleep. It feels significantly better than those times when I would go to bed at 3:00 AM and force myself to get eight hours straight.
Does this have anything to do with what they call the circadian rhythm? Is it true that sleep occurring before midnight is somehow higher quality?

Sorry if this is totally off-topic, but is Benjamin Moore some kind of car part? 🤣

Don't hate me, just asking...

I'm still getting by, I guess—though I swear my IQ scores have been tanking lately. I'm starting to suspect there's some weird connection there...

😂
Oh, please... who actually goes out and checks their intelligence anymore?

Benjamin Moore said:Does this have anything to do with that thing... what’s it called... circadian rhythm? The idea that sleep before midnight is somehow superior?

It is called a circadian rhythm.
People often claim that getting to sleep before midnight provides the highest quality rest. It’s a common phenomenon where people avoid going to bed when they are feeling anxious; they spend their daylight hours suppressing dark thoughts through various activities, only to have those same thoughts catch up to them the moment they hit the pillow, leading to insomnia. Sleep is essential for melatonin production. A deficiency in that hormone takes a toll on the body—and as for IQ scores, research suggests they tend to suffer, along with a noticeable drop in concentration levels.

Get plenty of daylight. Hang out on the patio, take a stroll, or just do some light yard work outside—it triggers that serotonin release you need to kickstart melatonin production later. It’s basic biology. Forget those old-school "grandma's remedies" like warm milk and honey before bed.

rustymoose54 said:Sorry for going off-topic here—is Benjamin Moore some kind of automotive component?🤣

Don't take offense, I'm just asking.

I suspect you're actually thinking of Getrib. It's a common misconception.
In reality, one might find traces of Benjamin Moore everywhere—for instance, when you're adjusting your window blinds.

Oh, please... who actually goes out and tests their IQ anymore?

Honestly, I’d prefer to remain untested myself—given how much my own quotient has plummeted lately.

rustymoose54 said:Sorry for going off-topic here, but is Benjamin Moore some kind of car part? 🤣

Don't take it personally, just asking.

😂
Oh please, who actually goes out to get their IQ tested these days?

I was gonna type something else, but honestly, there's no point—you basically read my mind. Benjamin Moore, I'm pretty sure you're dealing with something deep under the surface. Sometimes we don't even realize what's actually keeping us up at night. You just get this nagging feeling that something's off, but you can't quite put your finger on it. I went through a phase where my sleep was trashed for the exact same reason; I ended up sleeping more during the day than at night. Once I finally nailed down whatever was bothering me, everything clicked and I started sleeping normally again.

Michelle Patel78 & Kate Jackson68

Of course I have issues. I’ve had them my entire life—but let’s be clear: those issues aren't actually what's keeping me awake at night.
Because, as I’ve said before, I don't suffer from clinical insomnia in the strict sense. I am capable of falling asleep; it’s more that I have this lingering anxiety that I *won't* be able to. My one real bout of insomnia actually kicked off when I started a new job that required an early morning commute—I became so preoccupied with the fear of not getting enough rest that, predictably, I couldn't sleep. It's a vicious cycle.
And honestly, I find the whole ritual of going to bed somewhat depressing. You turn off the light, and then what? It feels a bit too much like facing the void. Me don't like.
There are quite a few psychological layers to unpack here.

Rachel Walker56—you're absolutely right about all of that. However, getting outdoors for a walk isn't always a viable option when you're working full-time, especially during the winter months. There just isn't the time.

What I find fascinating about this strange rhythm I'm currently living in (though, to be fair, I did head out yesterday and didn't hit the sack until around 1 AM) is how vital that early morning sunlight seems to be. It appears to have a profound effect on my physiological functions—perhaps even more significant than the actual quality of my sleep overnight. It makes me think that, in this era of constant electricity, our natural circadian rhythms are completely out of sync. Anyway, I have to head into work now, so I'll expand on this later.

Benjamin Moore said:I can actually fall asleep, I’m just terrified I won’t be able to.

Relatable.

And once I miss my window, I start spiraling and then sleep becomes impossible.

It always hits hardest when I'm actually exhausted.
I'm lying there, dying for sleep, but my eyes are wide open like searchlights.

Then comes the mental math. 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours of being wide awake.
So I end up pacing, turning on the lights, hopping on my laptop, shutting it down, getting back in bed—4 hours, 5 hours... until I finally pass out at 6 AM. 😱 😱 😱

Naturally, I have to resort to sleeping pills just to function sometimes.

Even those fail me half the time.

I mean, I finally realized how much that early morning light actually matters to me.

There’s actually some science behind it—it's not just in my head. You can buy these sunrise alarm clocks now that slowly brighten the room before the actual sound goes off. It’s a gradual transition... because the skin on your eyelids is so thin, your body picks up on that shifting light and signals that it's time to actually get out of bed. Usually, this starts about half an hour before the alarm hits. And of course, it works the other way too—dimming the lights in the evening helps trick your brain into entering sleep mode...

When you’re staring at the ceiling and sleep just won't come, tossing and turning for hours is probably the least productive thing you can do—just a waste of energy... instead, try turning on a small bedside lamp and picking up something light to read. Nothing too intense or mentally taxing, just something easy—or maybe put on some low-volume music. It usually helps you unwind and actually drift off much faster than if you just lie there CEKATE for sleep to happen eventually.

It’s quite amusing, really—I’m sitting here reading all these posts about insomnia being some sort of mystical, ethereal creature... yet my own eyes simply refuse to shut
And I know that by morning, I’ll be struggling to even keep them open when my little princess starts her usual screaming routine around 6 or 7 AM
At that point, I’ll be stumbling through the house like a zombie just to get to the kitchen and whip up some breakfast for her

Amanda Lee42 said:I’m sitting here reading posts about insomnia like I’m some kind of chill, zen creature—except my eyes won't even stay shut...
And tomorrow morning? It's going to be a struggle just to keep them open when my little princess starts screaming around 6 or 7 AM.
I'll probably stumble over my own feet trying to get to the kitchen to whip her some breakfast.

Look, you aren't some "chill creature"—you're on the internet, which is arguably the worst thing you can do if you're struggling with sleep. Even when I'm absolutely dead on my feet—the kind of tired where I'd pass out before my head even hit the pillow—if I go online, all that data flooding in (the stuff you don't even realize you're processing, the ads, the endless pop-ups...) it completely jolts you awake. Do yourself a favor and just forget the computer exists. When I said "chill creature," I meant reading a book or a magazine... not scrolling through a screen and all this digital noise.😁

Michelle Patel78 said:People tend to dodge their beds whenever they're feeling anxious. They spend the whole day suppressing those dark thoughts with various distractions, but the second they lie down, everything hits them at once and wakes them right back up. Sleep is absolutely vital for melatonin production—and when you're lacking that hormone, your entire body suffers. As for IQ scores? They take a hit, and concentration levels just plummet.

Spot on! And unfortunately, I’ve had to learn that lesson the hard way myself! 😢
The only real solution is to either tackle the root cause head-on or—if you can't actually fix the issue—learn to accept it as part of your existence. It takes time, sure, but you have to work through it internally.
Overthinking your sleep issues is a trap; it just creates a feedback loop of new problems where you end up spinning your wheels endlessly. The best move is to flush those intrusive thoughts—specifically that dread about not being able to fall asleep—straight out of your brain and refuse to let them back in. A friend of mine has this great trick—when he can't drift off, he closes his eyes and visualizes nothing but pure, solid blackness, refusing to let any other imagery creep in—he claims he’s out like a light in no time.
Bottom line: instead of obsessively analyzing why you aren't sleeping, it is far more productive to engage in actual activities and establish a disciplined routine—hitting the sack at the same time every night, waking up at the same time, and so on...

Matthew Sullivan32 said:Look, you aren't just "casually" reading—you’re scrolling through the internet, which is quite possibly the absolute worst thing you can do if you’re already struggling with insomnia. I'm telling you, even when I am bone-tired—dead on my feet, ready to pass out before I even hit the mattress—if I go online, that constant stream of data (the stuff you don't even realize you're processing, the ads, those obnoxious pop-ups, etc.) will COMPLETELY WAKE YOU UP. Do yourself a massive favor: forget the computer exists. When I say "light reading," I mean an actual book or a magazine—something physical. Not a laptop or a tablet. 😁

Besides, there's the flicker rate of the screen (it doesn't show a perfectly steady image), and while our eyes might be too sluggish to notice it consciously, your brain absolutely picks up on it. That's why staring at a screen right before bed is a terrible idea!

Give us the rundown on yourself—just a general intro—then maybe talk about your daily routine and those little things that have been quietly eating at you or driving you crazy lately.

- Did you switch up where you sleep?
- Do you keep your phone or a charger right next to you while you're out?
- Not enough fresh air, or maybe the room is just way too hot?

I can't really think of anything else right now... I was dealing with some of this stuff about 3 or 4 months ago, so I know how it goes.😢

Matthew Sullivan32 said:There’s actually a scientific way to handle that. You can get these smart clocks that slowly brighten the room before the alarm goes off. Since your eyelids are basically translucent, your body picks up on that gradual light change and tells you it's time to wake up. Usually, the brightening starts about thirty minutes before the actual sound. It works the same way in reverse, too—dimming the lights at night to trick your brain into sleep mode.

Where can I grab one of those? Sounds pretty useful. 🙂

Michelle Patel78 said:It’s called the circadian rhythm.
They say sleep before midnight is the gold standard. People tend to dodge bed when they're stressed out. They spend all day burying their dark thoughts under a mountain of busywork, but once they hit the sheets, everything catches up to them and keeps them tossing and turning. Sleep is huge for melatonin production. If you're short on that hormone, your body pays the price—you end up with worse focus and lower scores on IQ tests.

I read somewhere that it matters for growth hormones too... like they get released at night, right before dawn... something like that. 😕

Same thing with when I dabbled in transcendental meditation. I remember our instructor telling us that sleeping from 10 to 12 (PM, obviously 🙂) is basically worth five hours of sleep at any other time. Apparently, that’s when the brain does its best rebuilding. People dedicated to things like meditation or yoga—and honestly, even monks in certain traditions—all swear by an early bedtime and early rising. Specifically, I recall the TM leader saying they go down at 10 and are up by 3 AM. (That counts as eight hours of sleep.)

Exactly—this is precisely the kind of information I was looking for!
To reiterate my earlier point: I am not actually suffering from insomnia; rather, I am dealing with an erratic schedule and a certain anxiety regarding sleep itself. In principle, falling asleep isn't particularly difficult for me. I believe I touched upon all of this in my opening post, but I truly appreciate the well-intentioned advice regarding insomnia!

Unfortunately, there hasn't been any progress with my newly established routine. I spent a few days staying active and watching some television, and now I find myself heading to bed after midnight again—which, I suppose, is a marginal improvement over my previous habit of going to bed just before dawn. Regardless, I intend to try and exercise some discipline by aiming for a 9:00 PM bedtime for at least a week straight.

I recall reading about a specific study where volunteers lived in recreated environments designed to mimic the conditions of our ancestors prior to the invention of electricity. They would retire to bed once darkness fell and such things. During the winter months, this meant heading to sleep around 4:30 AM and getting roughly twelve hours of rest. However, the quality of that type of sleep is fundamentally different from the standard eight hours characterized by regular REM cycles—it involves these prolonged periods of semi-waking states, which likely results in altered states of consciousness. It reminds me of what people experience during deep meditation.

I am going to head online now to see if I can find more details on that topic.

placidfox52 said:I remember reading somewhere that there’s a real connection to growth hormone release... Apparently, it peaks during the night—right before dawn, or something like that... 😕

It’s similar to when I spent a little time dabbling in transcendental meditation—I remember our instructor telling us that a nap between 10 and 12... well, PM, obviously... 🙂They say five hours of sleep back in the day was actually worth more—that’s when the brain does its best heavy lifting and recovery. It’s the same pattern you see with people who go all-in on meditation or yoga... they live by a different clock. Even in traditional religious orders, there’s that whole discipline of hitting the hay early and rising before the sun. I remember hearing that leader from TM mention they’d turn in by 10 PM and be up by 3 AM. Effectively, that gives you eight hours of quality rest...

He made a fair point... 🙂 Honestly, someone working night shifts who tries to cram in eight hours of sleep during the day ends up feeling twice as wiped out as someone who just grabbed a four-hour nap during actual nighttime hours—it’s just how biology works... Benjamin Moore, you really need to ditch the internet and the TV before heading to bed—even if you think it doesn't affect you, trust me, it does. Grab something warm to drink—and no, I don't mean alcohol, that actually keeps you wired—maybe run a hot bath to unwind... give your body an actual chance to prep for sleep. Same goes for working out; steer clear of intense exercise right before bed because it’ll keep you buzzing for hours. I remember this one girl I knew who would hit an aerobics class from 8:00 to 9:00 PM and then act totally shocked when she couldn't drift off, despite being absolutely exhausted... Avoid heavy, spicy meals late at night, too. There are plenty of herbal teas that help you relax, or maybe try some essential oils—a lavender diffuser, a scented candle, or even just a lavender pillow spray. Make sure to air out the room beforehand; you don't want it getting too stuffy or overheated. Is your pillow even comfortable...?

placidfox52, here are those links for a few of those light sensors...

I can't see the link you're referring to... if you want me to work my magic, you'll need to paste the actual text here first. Once you do, I'll get to work rewriting it properly...

I can't see any link here... if you were trying to share something, it didn't come through. Just drop it again whenever you're ready...

link 3

So, I was looking at this Dawn light therapy setup online... it’s one of those devices meant to mimic a sunrise to help with that seasonal slump. It’s essentially a high-end lamp designed to trick your brain into thinking the sun is coming up, supposedly helping you shake off that heavy, winter fog before you even get out of bed. The idea is simple enough—gradual light increases to regulate your circadian rhythm—but whether a glorified desk lamp can actually fix a biological funk is always a bit of a question mark. It looks sleek, sure, but we’ve all seen these gadgets before. They promise a brighter mood and more energy, yet most of us end up just staring at a bright light in a dark room, wondering if it’s actually doing anything or if we're just paying for a fancy way to squint in the morning... it’s a lot of tech for something nature provides for free, provided you live somewhere that isn't perpetually overcast.

I took a look at that link—the one about light... It’s an interesting perspective, I suppose. There’s a certain weight to how they describe the way illumination hits a space—how it shifts from morning through dusk. It makes you think about how much we overlook the simple physics of a room just because we're too busy living in it. It’s almost poetic, if you're into that sort of thing... though, looking at it through a more practical lens, it mostly just reminds me of how much a poorly placed window can ruin an entire interior design. Still, worth a glance if you have the time to kill...

The concept of our internal biological clock—that rhythmic, unseen pulse governing everything from when we feel hungry to when we actually fall asleep—is something most people just ignore until it starts failing them. We like to pretend we’re in total control of our schedules, but biology usually has other plans... Science suggests this isn't just some vague feeling, but a complex system of light sensitivity and chemical signals that dictate our circadian rhythms. It's why a midnight snack feels like a brilliant idea at 11 PM, yet by 2 AM, you're staring at the ceiling wondering why you ever thought life was easy. When we mess with these cycles—through blue light from phones, irregular work shifts, or just plain old bad habits—we aren't just tired. We're essentially fighting against our own evolutionary programming. It’s a delicate balance, really. If you stay out too late under those bright LED streetlights or stare at a monitor long after the sun goes down, you're sending mixed signals to your brain. You're telling your body it's high noon when it should be winding down. And once that rhythm gets disrupted, catching up isn't as simple as grabbing an extra espresso in the morning... the damage to your sleep architecture is already done. We spend so much time trying to optimize our productivity and our "hustle," yet we completely overlook the very mechanism that makes consistency possible. Maybe if we stopped fighting the dark, we wouldn't feel so perpetually exhausted... but then again, modern life doesn't exactly make it easy to live by the sun.

I was browsing through some listings earlier—just looking at standard wall sconces—and stumbled upon this one. It’s nothing groundbreaking, just your typical lighting fixture you'd find at a place like Home Depot or Lowe's... though I suppose there's always someone out there looking for something specific. Just one of those things that catches your eye when you're idling online...

I don't know if I can fully wrap my head around the logic behind this—it’s one of those things that feels like it should make sense, yet somehow just doesn't quite land... It's a peculiar way to look at how time actually moves, or perhaps more accurately, how we try to force it into a shape we can understand. There’s a certain cynicism in trying to quantify the unquantifiable, isn't there? A bit like trying to map out the exact temperament of a New York City subway commuter—you can track the movement, sure, but you miss the actual essence of the thing. It’s an interesting perspective, I suppose... if you're into that sort of abstraction.

Personally, I think the first links have the better design...

With some of these links, you actually have to scroll all the way to the bottom just to see everything—or find where you need to click on "Product Overview"