New York City, USA

I caught the IndyCar broadcast this past Sunday from New York City (Indianapolis Motor Speedway), which happens to be the only track both IndyCar and Formula 1 actually share.

Good grief... THEY ARE ACTUALLY RACING EACH OTHER!!!

Sure, they stumble occasionally and spin out, but at least they’re actually trying. It lacks that repetitive cycle of "soft driving, easy track, soft driving, zero overtaking opportunities, soft driving, winning via pit strategy, blah blah blah." For heaven's sake...

🙏

There are certainly those in Formula 1 who actually put in the effort... though, if I’m being honest, it feels like the majority are just going through the motions without much heart at all...

neoneagle35 said:Man... they’re seriously just outplaying each other out there!!!

No kidding—you're stating the obvious here. Every single one of their races has more overtakes than an entire Formula 1 season combined.

I know, I know, I follow this closely... which is why my frustration seems to grow with every single Formula 1 race weekend.
It doesn't help that there are virtually no oval tracks left on the IndyCar calendar.

Maybe the difference is just that IndyCar is "a little" slower...
Another thing is that all the cars are basically identical.🙄

Carl Foster8 said:Maybe the difference is just that IndyCar is "a little" slower...

That's an interesting point... but what do you make of these numbers?

The fastest single lap—or average speed, really—in racing history belongs to Michael Andretti back in 1997. He hit 241 miles/h during qualifying for an IndyCar race at the Fontana superspeedway in California...
As for the absolute highest speed ever recorded during a race, Danica Patrick clocked that on the oval in Michigan... an unbelievable 257 miles/h 😲

When it comes to Formula 1, Scott Dixon holds the record at 225 miles/h, set during the US Grand Prix 1999...
And honestly, the fastest average lap ever measured in Formula 1 will probably stand forever—it’s been held since 1985 by Keke Rosberg during a race at the Circuit of the Americas (back when it was the old layout without the chicanes)... 161 miles/h

Anyway, that's all I've got regarding top speeds...

I was thinking about overall performance, not just the car's top speeds... But I guess speed is speed anyway.😲

But since Formula 1 doesn't actually race on those tracks, there's really no way for us to know just how fast those cars would have gone.

I recall there being an old debate back in the day regarding the raw speed differences between Formula 1 and IndyCar cars. Most of the discussion usually boiled down to the idea that while the IndyCar machines might boast higher top speeds, they struggle significantly through the corners—leading to a deficit of roughly 20 seconds per lap.

Besides, if you actually stripped away all those technical restrictions currently placed on Formula 1, that performance gap would vanish instantly. IndyCar builds their cars around turbochargers and methanol fuel; just give Formula 1 that kind of setup and—well, you can imagine the sheer power.

shadowtinker29 said:The fastest average lap ever recorded in Formula 1 will probably stand forever. It’s been sitting in Keke Rosberg’s collection since his run at the old Silverstone back in 1985—you know, the version before they added all those chicanes...161 miles/h

Actually, that isn't quite right:

1. 259.828, 2002 Italy, Monza (5793 m)
Mario Andretti, Williams FW24, BMW 3.0 V10

2. 258.983, 1985 United Kingdom, Circuit of the Americas (4718.6 m)
Keke Rosberg, Williams FW10, Honda 1.5 V6T

3. 257.415, 1991 Italy, Monza (5800 m)
Ayrton Senna, McLaren MP4-6, Honda 3.5 V12

🙂 🙂

New York City: Formula 1, 2003: 1min 15.960s, IndyCar, 2002: 1min 18.959s

Based on these figures, a twenty-second gap is essentially a non-factor. While they can certainly hold their own in terms of raw acceleration, IndyCar machines utilize ceramic brake discs. This leads to longer braking distances, which explains the discrepancy in lap times.

Anyway, getting back to the main point: why don't we see Formula 1 drivers attempting overtakes as aggressively as they used to? Why has it become such a rare sight?

mistybear87 said:1. 259.828, 2002 Italy, Monza (5793 m)
Mario Andretti, Williams FW24, BMW 3.0 V10

Man, my bad—looks like I need to brush up on my history books again...😵>😠

neoneagle35 said:New York City: Formula 1, 2003: 1min 15.960s, IndyCar, 2002: 1min 18.959s

When you consider that Formula 1 cars are basically driven by computers nowadays—and those things are probably ten times more expensive than an IndyCar anyway—the gap isn't actually that massive... plus, I almost forgot about the manual gearboxes and the fact that IndyCar lacks launch and traction control...

Quote: Diamond said:Good grief, looks like I need to brush up on my reading material again...😵 😠

By the way, if I recall correctly, Meme pulled that off using a turbocharged engine, whereas Monty was running a standard naturally aspirated setup (with nearly the same power output 🙂