Numbers don't lie

Casey Palmer5 said:It’s either citric acid, C6H8O7, also known as E330, or it isn't.

How dangerous can something really be if it’s already inside every single one of your cells and is actually essential for basic metabolic processes?

Sure, you could argue that point, but... the real issue is the dosage.

Honestly, those two links you sent over are just so full of nonsense that I don't even want to waste my time doing a deep dive into them.

That clinic they're talking about isn't even a real place, and there’s no such thing as an official list for those specific food additives. I just happened to stumble upon that flyer and decided to do some digging to see what was actually going on...

Casey Palmer5 said:Honestly, those two links you shared are so full of nonsense I can't even be bothered to analyze them properly.

That clinic being mentioned doesn't even exist. There isn't some official list of these additives either; I just stumbled upon that flyer and took it upon myself to dig deep and find the truth.

I think you're talking to me, but you aren't actually looking at who posted what... I'm not the one stirring up panic here...😉 just look up higher

No, I was actually talking about Gillad.

As far as amounts go—honestly, you'd have to consume massive quantities before it actually hurt you.

http://msds.pdc.cornell.edu/msds/sir...cjs/cjscv.html
Toxicological Information
================================================== =====
Toxicological Information: CITRIC ACID HAS BEEN REPORTED TO HAVE ALLERGIC
PROPERTIES, AND MIGHT CAUSE ALLERGIC CONTACT DERMATITIS. IRRITATION OF THE
SKIN, EYES, AND GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT MAY OCCUR BUT SHOULD NOT REQUIRE EXTEN
SIVE THERAPY BEYOUND DILUTION/IRRIGATION. DUST AND SOLUTION MAY CAUSE SEVERE
IRRITATION TO THE EYES, WITH SYMPTOMS THAT INCLUDE REDNESS, TEARING, AND
PAIN. CONCENTRATED SOLUTIONS MAY BE CORROSIVE TO T HE EYES AND CAUSE CORNEAL
ULCERATIONS.

LD50 LC50 Mixture: ORAL LD50(RAT): 3 GM/KG
Route Of Entry Inds - Inhalation: YES
Skin: YES
Ingestion: YES
Carcinogenicity Inds - NTP: NO
IARC: NO
OSHA: NO
Effects of Exposure: EYES-DUSTS & SOLUTION MAY CAUSE SEVERE IRRITATION TO
EYES. CONCENTRATED SOLUTIONS MAY BE CORROSIVE TO EYES & CAUSE CORNEAL
ULCERATION. SKIN-THIS PRODUCTION MAY CAUSE MODERATE IRRITATION OF SKIN. CITRI
C ACID MAY CAUSE ALLERGIC CONTACT DERMATITIS WITH PROLONGED OR REPEATED
CONTACT. INGESTION-CITRIC ACID MAY CAUSE GASTROINTESTIONAL IRRITATION.
CONCENTRATED SOLUTIONS MAY CAUSE NEUROTIC & ULCERATIVE LE SIONS ON ORAL
MUCOUS MEMBRANES. CHRONIC INGESTION OF HIGH CONCENTRATION CITRIC ACID CAN
RESULT IN ERROSION OF TOOTH ENAMEL. INHILATION-DUST/MIST FROM SOLUTION MAY
CAUSE MILD TO MODERATE IRRITATION OF NOSE & THROAT.
Explanation of Carcinogenicity: NONE OF THIS PRODUCT'S COMPONENTS ARE LISTED BY
ACGIH, IARC, NIOSH OR NTP.
Signs and Symptoms of Overexposure: EYES: REDNESS,TEARING AND PAIN. SKIN:
ALLERGIC CONTACT DERMATITIS. INGESTION: NAUSEA, DIARRHEA, VOMITING, ADOMINAL
PAIN. CONCENTRATED SOLUTIONS MAY CAUSE ULCERATIVE LESIONS ON ORAL MUCOUS
MEMBRANE. C HRONIC INGESTION OF HIGH CONCENTRATIONS CITRIC ACID CAN RESULT IN
ERROSION OF TOOTH ENAMEL. INHILATION: COUGHING, SNEEZING AND LABORED
BREATHING.
First Aid: EYE:IMMEDIATELY FLUSH WITH PLENTY OF WATER FOR 15 MINS. GET MEDICAL
ATTENTION IF SYMPTOMS OF PAIN,SWELLING,OR TEARING EXIST AFTER FLUSHING.
SKIN:IMMEDIATELY WASH THOROUGHLY WITH SOAP & WATER.GET MEDIC AL ATTENTION
OF IRRITATION DEVELOPS OR PERSISTS. INGESTION:HAVE VICTIM RINSE MOUTH WITH
WATER, IF CONSCIOUS. NEVER GIVE ANYTHING BY MOUTH TO A VICTIM WHO IS
UNCONSCIOUS OR HAVING CONVULSIONS. CONTACT PHYSICIAN OR POISON CONTROL
CENTER IMMEDIATELY. INHILATION:MOVE VICTIM TO FRESH AIR, APPLY ARTIFICIAL
RESPIRATION IF NOT BREATHING. IF COUGH OR DIFFICULTY BREATHING DEVELOPS, SEEK
MEDICAL ATTENTION.

The only downside is that it actually boosts aluminum absorption, which isn't exactly great for you...

William Morris2 said:E330 is the most dangerous additive out there—it's a known carcinogen, just like citric acid.

Good grief... I'm a dead man!😢 😲
Think about how much vodka I've downed with Schweppes Bitter Lemon over the years. At this rate, I won't die from the booze; I'll be taken out by the soda...😁

Casey Palmer5 said:Complete nonsense. Citric acid isn't dangerous.

Fine, my bad then. I'll apologize for giving out wrong info. All I was trying to do was help.
Anyway, you got a "real" link for that?

http://www.autoteka.com/eskola/kem/o....php3?sif=1452>
Check out those links at the bottom—actually quite interesting...

William Morris2 said:Well, my bad on the wrong info then. I was just trying to be helpful...
Anyway, do you have a "real" link for that?

That’s exactly what I’m talking about—you really have to learn how to separate actual facts from all the rumors and guesswork out there. A couple of months back, I actually went down a bit of a rabbit hole looking into citric acid because a buddy told me it causes cancer. So, I did some digging online, and honestly, it turned out to be total nonsense. There aren't even any studies or evidence to back it up. It looks like people just got confused because citric acid is part of the Krebs cycle—and since Krebs is the name of the scientist who won a Nobel Prize for discovering it, it just got mixed up with the word for cancer in some other languages. Some uneducated folks saw that and jumped to the conclusion that citric acid causes cancer. Here's the link: http://ukfoodguide.net/e330.htm

Amanda Mitchell17 said:Has anyone ever heard that white sugar is bleached using a mixture containing crushed animal bones just to get that perfect crystalline whiteness?...

I haven't heard that one before...

which is supposedly one of the main causes of diabetes... I don't have any scientific proof for this bit, but... well...

Well... there's a reason there isn't any scientific evidence for that. 😉 (Read: it probably isn't true—not that they don't do it, but rather that it's just one factor in the risk of diabetes). I guess it's because sugar is dangerous enough on its own, being a major driver for diabetes along with, um, grains (I think we're missing a good word for it here: mostly agricultural crops like grains, corn, rice, etc.)—all those things spike your blood sugar, and then your insulin follows suit.

Glad this thread is finally picking up some steam. William Morris2 wandered off on a bit of a tangent, but no big deal. People love spreading rumors, and because of that, actual facts get dismissed. If you haven't seen it on the nightly news or caught it on CNN, people just shrug and call it nonsense... they assume it’s fake just because they’ve never heard of it.

I've been wanting to weigh in on this for a while now... I've felt a bit "put under a microscope" before because of how I write, getting accused of being paranoid or afraid of everything. I sat with that for a bit and realized something: I'm not the one who's afraid... it's the people telling me I am. Here's the thing: most people need a little self-delusion just to function. They have to believe in something. I'm not talking about religion here, but more like a belief in an "ideal" lifestyle regarding health. Most of us act like the world is perfectly safe when it comes to medicine and wellness—we try to believe it even though we know better deep down. What does the average person think is dangerous? Smog, the Sun because of skin cancer risks, drugs (well, besides marijuana, which is supposedly less harmful than cigarettes and isn't addictive, right? As if the mental effects don't matter at all 😉; and candy isn't that bad either), cigarettes (are we even sure they're that bad? Half the people in the US live as if they aren't, otherwise their ads wouldn't be banned!), cholesterol (though nowadays people actually understand the difference between "good" and "bad"), greasy food, or even things like Coca-Cola... people know it's bad, yet they keep drinking it... yeah, there's plenty more where that came from.

And then you get the "crazy" ones—and hey, I'm probably the craziest of them all—who start sounding the alarm. Some folks on this forum see it as panic, but I see it as stating facts. We take so many things for granted that aren't actually good for us. Take aspartame, for example. Diabetics love to tell themselves it's a great sugar substitute, but it's actually a neurotoxin... just say no! There's Stevia. Then there's amalgam, which releases mercury and causes galvanization in your teeth. Or fluoride—in some places, kids drink fluoridated water just to get better teeth! But fluoride is a poison; chronic exposure symptoms look a lot like mercury poisoning, and statistically, kids drinking fluoridated water often end up with more cavities than those who don't. You even find excessive amounts of it in certain teas and other products... who would've thought? Then there's milk. People say, "Oh, drink as much pasteurized milk as you want!"—that was sarcasm, by the way, I don't want anyone getting confused. Most people claim they aren't lactose intolerant, but studies show about 50% of Caucasians, 75% of Black Americans, and virtually all Asians struggle to digest it. Plus, pasteurization kills off most of the good stuff like vitamins and enzymes, and it tanks calcium absorption. And sugar? We all "know" too much sugar is bad, but some people go as far as saying it's more dangerous than cigarettes! It triggers so many issues and can even worsen cancer. Then there's aluminum, which we know is linked to Alzheimer's, or Teflon—even if its toxicity for humans is debatable, it's been shown to kill pet birds kept in kitchens. Don't forget MSG (monosodium glutamate, or E621)... it hits the brain similarly to aspartame; high doses kill brain cells. It's used as a flavor enhancer in everything from soups and sauces to burgers and chips... you name it! People love to blame McDonald's for unhealthy food, but honestly, just take a look at what's sitting in your own pantry. Then there's formaldehyde—I've written about this before—it's in everything from construction materials and furniture to electronics and soaps. About 10% of aspartame breaks down into methanol in the body, which then turns into formaldehyde! Of course, the idiots defending aspartame will tell you it just turns straight into CO2 and water! And don't get me started on fruit, vegetables, or coffee... they're usually sprayed with pesticides and other toxins. Even oils are heavy on Omega-6 fatty acids; we need them, sure, but we have to balance them with Omega-3s, and most people are way too low on the Omega-3 side, which leads to all sorts of problems. Even grains like corn, wheat, and rice act similarly to sugar... it goes on forever.Life is genuinely dangerous! Every single substance carries its own specific risk for various illnesses or health issues. When you start mixing them together, those risks don't just add up—they multiply. It’s especially true for toxins that work through synergy... you know, that whole concept where 1+1 actually equals 3.

Once you realize how much is out there, I think you'll naturally start looking out for yourself a bit more. Some people just won't be able to accept that, though. They'll take the path of least resistance and tell me I'm just fear-mongering... which is really just a way of denying the truth, if you ask me. Of course, a huge part of this stuff is nearly impossible to avoid. In the US, we're seeing this whole new epidemic of a different kind—people becoming totally obsessed with the "healthy lifestyle." They get terrified of every little toxin and go into a frenzy trying to achieve the impossible: living a perfectly healthy life. That's one extreme. On the other side, you've got the folks who ignore everything I just said and live in this illusion that only a tiny handful of things are risky. You really have to find that middle ground between those two extremes.

One more thing... I was reading a memoir by someone who suffered from mercury poisoning, and they made a pretty interesting point. There are basically two types of people: those who have absolutely no clue about "healthy living," and those who know far too much. The people caught somewhere in the middle? There are very few of them. The reason is simple: the truly healthy people aren't worried about "living healthy." But those of us who get hit hard... well, we try to learn everything possible to reclaim our health, or at least make it better...

Man, this is such a fascinating topic... there's seriously so much to pick up here if you actually care to learn. Of course, people who are actually willing to open their eyes will appreciate it. But honestly, after reading through all this, I’m starting to wonder what I’m even allowed to eat anymore?! Like, looking at the list of toxins in our food... it feels like everything is rigged. Meat (which is honestly pretty sketchy, even though some people try to convince me that white meat is fine), grains are a mess, milk, sugar... it's just nothing left. And man, I love milk... especially when it's ice-cold during these crazy heatwaves. It beats a Coca-Cola or any of those sugary juices any day. So, please, can someone just give me a list of actual foods that have little to no of these toxins you guys are talking about? Like, what is actually safe to eat?

I can't say I agree with dustycanyon6, to put it mildly. Life has risks, sure, but there are alternatives. Milk and grains aren't the enemy; any baby knows they're essential, just like meat or fish.

But Emulsifiers and all those other chemical additives? Not necessary. And we haven't seen enough research on the damage they do. That's really what this is about.
dustycanyon6, we're talking about synthetic additives we're putting into our bodies here. Please stick to the topic. I get that you're wound tight and feel the need to go off on everything, but... it's not cool. Dial it back and stop spamming the thread. I'm not interested in debating whether basic foods are harmful when they're clearly vital. If you don't overdo it, salt and sugar aren't the villains either. Especially milk—in yogurt, cooked, whatever—it's about choosing healthy stuff, like using butter or honey instead of refined sugar, and figuring out what works for your own body.

Besides, watching your food is only one part of staying healthy.

Pesticides in grains are an issue, just like antibiotics in meat. But you can mostly avoid that by sticking to organic food, which is somewhat regulated.

Andrew Stewart2 said:This is such an interesting topic... there’s really so much to pick up here. Of course, the people actually willing to learn are the ones who value it most. But honestly, after reading all this, I’m starting to wonder if there’s anything left for me to eat. Looking at these lists of food toxins, it feels like everything is on there. Meat seems terrible—even though some folks try to convince me white meat is okay—grains are out, milk is bad, sugar is a no-go. Nothing. And man, I love milk... especially ice-cold when the Sun is beating down like this. It beats any Coca-Cola or juice any day. So, could someone please just give me a list of foods that actually have little to no of these toxins you mentioned? What are we actually supposed to be eating?

Anyone trying to tell you meat is absolutely awful is probably just a vegetarian... though, I have to admit, the whole vegetarian thing has its charms (I stick to chicken breasts and the occasional deli meat myself). At the end of the day, you just have to decide what works for you. You can't totally escape toxins from the world, but you can definitely dial them back as far as possible. If I were you, I'd cut way back on sugar, (pasteurized) milk, and grains—you know, things like rice, bread, pasta... just skip those. Eat plenty of veggies, then maybe some fruit. Personally, I think veggies win out since they don't have all that fructose...

shadowgardener12 said:I can't say I see eye to eye with dustycanyon6 on this one, to put it mildly. Look, life has its risks, sure, but there's always a better way to go about things. Milk and grains aren't the enemy here. Every kid knows that—they're essential fuel for the body, just like meat or fish...

Look, nobody’s forcing you to see things my way... but let's be real about milk. It’s risky for a ton of people because so many folks are actually allergic to it without even knowing it. Or, they just don't have enough lactase to process it properly. If you want to argue it isn't "dangerous," fine... maybe it's not life-threatening for everyone, but it sure as hell isn't healthy either. Not that the mainstream media or doctors who haven't done their homework would tell you that... mostly because pasteurization wipes out most of the good stuff anyway. I dropped some links above if you actually want to dig into the science... And honestly? Babies—I mean actual infants here, not just being metaphorical—are in a much better spot than we are. They have plenty of lactase to handle it, and they haven't even had the chance to develop those dairy allergies yet. You really can't group us adults in with them... it just doesn't work like that... 😉 Processed grains—you know, things like bread or heaven forbid, sugary cereals—they just spike your insulin levels for no reason and lead straight to weight gain... If that doesn't sound like a problem to you, then whatever, it's your life. But honestly, look around. People are getting heavier by the day, and we're seeing more and more cases of diabetes and other chronic issues. The thing is, diabetes can often be prevented, or even reversed in some cases, just by ditching the grains and cutting out the sugar entirely. So many of the health struggles we face today are legitimately "Western lifestyle diseases," because that's exactly what this kind of diet produces. Just because the shelves are full of food doesn't mean we have to eat total garbage...

Look, you don't need all those emulsifiers and random chemical additives... they just aren't necessary. And honestly, the long-term damage hasn't even been properly studied yet. That’s really the heart of the issue here...
dustycanyon6, look, we’re talking about chemical additives and synthetics that we’re actually putting into our bodies here. Please, just stick to the topic. I know you love to go off on every single tangent imaginable, but seriously... it's getting old. Tone it down a bit and stop spamming the thread. I’m really not interested in debating whether "natural" foods are harmful when it’s obvious they’re necessary for survival. And honestly, if you aren't overdoing it, salt and sugar aren't the villains everyone makes them out to be. Especially when it comes to dairy—whether it's yogurt or just good old milk... we should be focusing on what’s actually nutritious. Think things like butter or using honey instead of processed sugar. It’s all about finding what works for your own body...

My bad—I definitely went off on a tangent there... Anyway, I know there are people here who are probably more interested in other dietary red flags besides just additives. Like, you see it all the time... people obsess over finding products without any additives, but then they end up making really poor nutritional choices overall. It's kind of ironic, isn't it...?

It feels like you’re one of those people who only sees what they want to see... thinking every single additive is super toxic while "natural" foods are somehow perfectly safe. You actually remind me of my old man. One time he caught me eating a burger and he goes, "How can you eat that? Haven't you seen The Sun? They say those things cause addiction and weight gain." And honestly, I rarely even eat burgers anymore... not lately at all. Just keep in mind, my dad is carrying some extra weight around his middle and he's a heavy smoker... meanwhile, I've got a flat stomach and don't have any of those bad habits...

The truth is usually somewhere in the middle... like most things in life. Those additives aren't necessarily going to kill you unless you're super sensitive to one of them, but then again, a lot of what we call "staple foods" are actually pretty essential for staying healthy. That said, a huge chunk of those "everyday" groceries we grab at the supermarket aren't even necessary. I'm talking about stuff like sugar and all those other ingredients that just spike your insulin levels... And don't even get me started on grains. Honestly, they don't offer much value. You can get all the carbs you need from actual vegetables, and when you eat real veggies, you're getting way more important vitamins and minerals anyway...

Basically, if you don't watch what you eat, you aren't staying healthy!

On the flip side—if you ignore your diet, you're asking for trouble. 😉 And the worst part is how many of these issues are chronic. Like, if you start slamming sugar now, you might feel fine for ten years, and then suddenly... boom. You're diabetic. Then you'll sit there acting surprised, like you just caught it out of nowhere when it's been brewing for a decade, right?

Pesticides in grains are definitely an issue, just like antibiotics in meat. But you can mostly dodge that by sticking to organic food, which is somewhat regulated.

Pesticides are tough to avoid. But regarding grains, I wasn't actually talking about pesticides; I meant the general impact grains have on our bodies. Atkins was on the right track, but he tripped up by cutting out all carbs entirely. He didn't realize that vegetables and grain crops are worlds apart. He also missed the fact that everyone needs a different balance of fats, proteins, and carbs. Some people—maybe about 15% of us—won't have much trouble with grains. That’s why Mercola's grain-free "diet" (which is really just eating right) works better than Atkins; it fixes his mistakes. Who knows, maybe Mercola will change his mind down the road as new science comes out... though the thing is, he'll probably adapt, while others just cling to wrong ideas like a drunk clinging to a lamppost...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, back to the topic before shadowgardener12 starts cursing me out... 😁 I was telling you guys about MSG (monosodium glutamate), right? E621, one of those flavor enhancers. About two weeks ago, I was reading some article about it and noticed how they list these additives on packaging. They split the category name into two lines. In some languages, the grammar makes it look weird, but in English, it actually works! I happened to pick up a packet of Campbell's soup and checked the ingredients under the English label, and I saw something like this:

Ingredients: meat, ..., flavor
enhancers (monosodium glutamate,...), salt...

Man, talk about a surprise! Even big brands like Campbell's do it! Such sneaky little tricksters. And the kicker is how they align it to the right margin, so you don't immediately realize that "flavor" and "enhancers" are actually one single phrase: "flavor enhancers."

You see the same nonsense with brands like Coca-Cola—for example, their soda contains both real sugar and artificial sweeteners (which would be a huge problem in the US!). They list water and sugar first, followed by a bunch of other stuff, and then put the "Sweeteners" at the very end... as if sugar isn't a sweetener.

What’s the deal with unrefined sugar?
I honestly don't get the difference—first off, I bought one brand of unrefined sugar that looks like literal mud and is insanely sweet. Then there's this other brand (also unrefined) that's barely even sweet... and after a while, it just turns rock hard—though the label claims that's normal and suggests covering it with a damp cloth for a bit...

As far as I can tell, there isn't much of a difference. Chemically, it's the same compound. Sugar is tough on digestion because it burns through the vitamins we actually need. That’s why you shouldn't be reaching for chocolate when you have a cold or the flu... it just drags out the recovery process.

Swap the sugar-honey combo for fruit sugars, or just keep the sugar minimal—since you can't avoid it entirely—and stay active. The point mentioned earlier applies to everyone (using up vitamins and nutrients just to process sugar). Then you've got genetic predispositions for diabetes, not to mention other bodily issues that turn "harmless" sugar into a massive burden. Chocolate, pastries, cookies, sodas... you don't need that shit 😉, or at least, not really.

Unlike refined grains, whole grains like millet are actual health foods. They're packed with minerals, vitamins, and essential amino acids. Think of things like buckwheat porridge... 👍

The bad stuff is white bread and pasta. Those are basically empty calories, costing us more than they provide (kind of like how sugar works).
It’s nonsense to say grains are bad for you when they're used in so many therapies for bone density and metabolism. Same goes for brown rice; without the hull, it's just carbs, but with it? You get Vitamin B. It’s a different story. It's just not as "smooth," and we've all become spoiled. We want everything processed and refined, but those are exactly the foods with zero nutritional value.

As for all that nonsense about milk being "dangerous"...😁 it just isn't.
If you actually lack enough lactase to digest it (I've seen it happen), there are plenty of ways to work around it. Cooked, semi-cooked, yogurt, kefir, acidophilus, cheese, mozzarella... all those options are much easier on the gut. At least one of them is bound to work, even for someone who usually can't touch dairy.

A lack of dairy in your diet is way more dangerous because it leads to calcium deficiencies.

shadowgardener12 said:As for the nonsense about milk being "dangerous,"😁 it isn't.
If someone truly lacks enough lactase to digest it (I've seen cases), there are plenty of ways to consume dairy—cooked, semi-cooked, yogurt, kefir, acidophilus yogurt, cheese, mozzarella... all of these are easier to digest. At least one of them will likely work even for someone who usually can't handle milk at all.

Missing out on dairy entirely is actually much more dangerous because it leads to calcium deficiencies.

I haven't spent much time writing about "food dangers" until now.
Based on my wife's experience over the last 40 years, she deals with many digestive issues and vitamin deficiencies despite eating well; her system just doesn't absorb what's in her stomach.
As I mentioned recently, she’ll be on B12 injections for the rest of her life. She eats foods containing B12, but her body just won't process them.
Luckily, it's manageable. She's been fighting this for years and is incredibly careful about avoiding processed foods, but some people are just built that way, no matter how cautious they are.

The poor thing just laughs and calls herself a "REJECT"... it's a little joke, but there's some truth to it when everything seems to hit a snag.

Reading the post about milk, acidophilus yogurt is highly recommended... especially when we're sick or taking antibiotics. Plus, calcium is vital for everyone to prevent osteoporosis. My wife had a hysterectomy at age 40 and uses hormone replacement therapy via a patch
and takes 1,200 mg of calcium daily by prescription.

She struggles quite a bit with her lipids, but she walks for 30-40 minutes every day at a brisk pace, and she's 66.
Her doctor's motto for her is "use it or lose it."

Best to everyone,
🙂 😉 😎

shadowgardener12 said:From what I understand, there isn't much of a difference. Chemically speaking, it's the same compound, and the sugar is hard to digest because it uses up all the vitamins we actually need...

Wait, what vitamins are even used to digest sugar???