Can the TV mods stop being so subjective and selective with "woke" comments?

The Sandman series is finally out on Netflix!

The Sandman series on Netflix is actually an adaptation of the graphic novel written by Neil Gaiman—which was originally published by DC.

By today’s standards—if you want to get technical—you could probably label Gaiman as "woke." Looking back at those short stories he published in the late eighties and early nineties, he was already breaking the mold—featuring gender-fluid characters, queer identities, and diverse ethnicities long before they were mainstream. Plus, Gaiman himself isn't shy about jumping onto Twitter to defend his series—he's often right there answering the critics who try to dismiss the work by just calling it "woke."

Neil Gaiman
@neilhimself

And honestly—what’s truly terrifying—is that they somehow traveled back in time and forced me to bake all of this right into the original comic books back in 1988!

🤣🤣🤣
@neilhimself

Let's be clear—this isn't a backlash. When someone grumbles about Sandman being woke and They get 10 likes, and I step in to point out how ridiculous that is and end up with 60,000 likes—that isn't a "backlash." It's just a handful of people performing their outrage on Twitter, while thousands of us are actually just counting down the days until Friday.

Honestly, ever since the series dropped, things have become a bit much—it’s getting repetitive, actually—but we're practically seeing constant trolling with those "woke" posts now.

Forumaš ljimomoj He's put out eight posts now—all eight of them—just hammering away at how "woke" the series supposedly is.
One

ljimomoj said:I’d love to say I was absolutely thrilled—really—but all this ideology and "woke" stuff just won't let me.
Straight to it! The first two episodes feel like they only tossed in that gay romance just to check a box—totally feels forced. And then they'll throw in a lesbian storyline, too. And then comes Lucifer—who happens to be a woman.
It’s not even about the "woke" aspect—though I hear people complaining about that—it’s more that it gets under my skin because it feels so forced. It’s obvious, isn't it? Like they're either doing it on purpose or just checking a box because production handed down a mandate from above. Just feels a bit much!

Two.

ljimomoj said:I messed up—I went back and watched episodes 5 and 6, and man, the whole thing just screams "woke."

Everyone in episode five seems to be gay—it’s everywhere! Honestly, if you look at the actual numbers—and I mean really dig into the data—the percentage of straight couples and romance tropes actually reflecting reality is roughly on par with gay couples. We’re talking less than 10% accuracy there. It's a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

In episode 6—which features a really solid storyline, by the way—and...It’s that one tiny detail—the little thing that just ruins everything. And that—if you can even call it that—is what passes for "sending a message." The core message here—that making a living through trade and essentially "owning" goods is morally questionable—is a tough one to swallow! It’s a heavy thought, really—though I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised by the sentiment..🤦

It’s such a shame to see great stories and solid episodes wasted—it feels like production teams are getting these top-down mandates to include "woke" elements just to play it safe. If they don't check all those activist boxes, they risk being canceled—and let's be honest, once that happens, directors and writers might find themselves blacklisted from working on major, big-budget projects in Hollywood altogether.

Tri

ljimomoj said:Oh, really? I had no idea—I haven't picked up a comic book since elementary school!
I’m really just speaking from experience here—this is actually the first time in my life I've ever sat down to watch a series based on a comic book I’d never even heard of before!

The first few episodes throw in a handful of references to gay characters—which, honestly, didn't bother me much—but by the time I hit episode five, I was just getting frustrated. I mean, come on... what are the odds that in one tiny, budget little diner in some remote corner of the US, they'd happen to have a crowd that's almost entirely gay? Or even more ridiculous—that everyone just collectively decided to engage in gay sexual activity on that specific day? It felt a bit forced.

I’m a massive fan of history, religion, and mythology—really deep into all of it—so it honestly pains me when certain people feel entitled to butcher ancient mythic figures just to fit their own modern worldviews.
Just imagine—some Hollywood studio takes a classic American folk tale and flips the script entirely. They make a movie where the protagonist is a trans person who tricks some gay guy, then heads home and beats their spouse just to drive home a "moral message" about how domestic violence is wrong. It’s exactly like how Morpheus delivers those heavy-handed lectures in the series about how slavery and human trafficking are evil.

I’m going to power through this series until the very end—but I have to say, it’s such a letdown when forced changes from the original comics or books take center stage. It’s a shame when those forced additions end up overshadowing what was actually a perfectly solid and genuinely engaging subplot!

Four.

ljimomoj said:I just finished the whole season—and honestly? All things considered, it was total garbage.

What really gets under my skin—and I say this with all due respect to the creators—is that there was actually so much potential here. There were moments where the storytelling truly clicked—like that scene in the restaurant or the sequence with Death—but then... well, you know how it goes. It just falls apart. The whole series is just saturated with gay characters and overt sexuality—it’s honestly hard to watch because it feels so forced. It’s clearly trying too hard, which usually means the actual quality is going to take a hit.

If you’re into those gay fantasies and liberal agendas, be my guest—but count me out. I won't be wasting my eyes on a second season.

If I were to quote all eight of them—just an idea—I think you’d finally get the full picture.

Not a single one has been deleted—even though I’m honestly getting pretty bored with this whole conversation, Maja. We’ve already established that the series is woke. Wait. You're trolling. On any halfway decent forum, this would have been flagged as trolling by now—especially since people so often use the term "woke" as a convenient little sugarcoat for their own homophobia (and I'll be providing an example of actual homophobia just below).

Anyway—I actually wrote one post—just one single post—as a direct response to that comment.

dobrimag said:People back in 1689 already knew slavery was wrong. The whole point of the scene was to show that humans are actually capable of learning and evolving.
Personally, I’m hoping that by 2022 we don't still need to be lecturing viewers that slavery was bad.

What I meant is that sometimes you *do* have to send those messages—because literally in some parts of the US, people deny slavery even happened, or try to rebrand it as "involuntary labor." (I wish I were joking, but I'm really not.)
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06...ry-relocation/

🤣
So, my post is totally relevant to the topic and that specific scene in the series, because apparently America—and the world—still needs a reminder that:
1. Slavery absolutely happened. 🤦
2. It wasn't just "involuntary labor."
3. And it remains one of the greatest tragedies in human and American history.

And what happens? My post gets AUTOMATICALLY deleted—while glory is allowed to go on a massive rant about how the series is woke and complain about the presence of gay characters.

Even when others pointed out that it isn't "forced" and that the comic was already like that.

Crow89 said:Look, I'm also against all that woke nonsense, but the comic is packed with gay and trans characters. Neil Gaiman has always been a huge snowflake. So blaming the series in this case is just wrong because the Sandman comics have plenty of that.

The guy clearly just can't stand the presence of gay characters, so he wrote this:

ljimomoj said:I watched the whole season, and all things considered, it's pure garbage.

What bugs me most is that it had potential—there were actually good episodes with great stories, like the one in the restaurant or the one with Death—but when an entire series is defined by gays, trans people, and their sexuality, it's just trash because it feels forced.

If you like that stuff, go ahead and watch gay fantasies and liberal nonsense, but I won't be watching a second season.

Which, at this point, is straight-up homophobia and transphobia. He's bothered by the mere existence of these people, even though they were in the original script and nobody "forced" or changed anything (the writer even defended the series and justified the "woke" elements).

But hey, his posts don't get deleted and he doesn't get punished for his:
1. trolling
2. both homophobia and transphobia—and please, don't hit me with the "freedom of speech" argument, because free speech doesn't include hate speech. This guy is literally saying he's bothered by the presence of LGBTQ+ characters regardless of whether they were in the original source material, purely because of who they are; that's just straight-up homophobia.

Why though?

And Sandman is just one example. I could go on forever—switching from topic to topic, whether it's TV series or streaming platforms—pointing out how "woke" has become a convenient shield: "I'm not racist" (you are), "I'm not homophobic" (you are), "bUt I dOn'T lIkE iT wHeN tHiNgS aRe fOrCeD."

Here's an example involving Disney.

The guy just randomly showed up and posted this:

stipest said:

And it still stands, even though:
1. the image is unnecessarily huge
2. it has zero relevance to the actual topic
3. it's a textbook case of white people feeling threatened by non-white actors stepping into roles that have historically been white—even though white Hollywood has spent its entire history doing the exact opposite by casting white actors as non-white characters (whitewashing).
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jessg/white...ood-characters


If I had wandered into a Disney thread and posted a photo mocking conservatives like this, would I really be tolerated and left alone for days?

I’ve been away from my desk for most of the day, so I haven't had a chance to sort this out yet.
In the future, please just report the posts directly—that way, we can jump in and resolve things much faster.

It’s honestly disheartening how much vitriol directed at people based on race or sexual orientation has started to infect the Television subforum.
We are doing everything in our power to manage it, but clearly, our current efforts aren't quite cutting it.
And this whole "woke" debate? It has become a cancer spreading through almost every discussion; people are just reflexively blaming everything on it. This subforum is supposed to be a place where we geek out and have fun, but lately, it’s felt like it's turned into such a dark, toxic space. This is especially true when we're talking about TV series.
My apologies to everyone.

I honestly feel like wiping every single post from this forum where some clueless amateur insists on calling a comic book a "graphic novel."☕

Honestly, I’d love to just wipe out every single post that's filled with homophobia, racism, misogyny, and all that other garbage. ☕

bluecyclist64 said:Honestly, I’m half-tempted to just go back and delete every single post where some total amateur tries to call a comic book a "graphic novel." It's just... I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it's kind of exhausting.☕

And people actually call comics "graphic novels"... just so they can pretend there's some massive distinction between them and, you know, actual written novels. I guess it’s all about that sense of legitimacy, right? Luna, the king of the night....

God, I swear... some places just drive you absolutely insane.

Bryan Patel2 said:I haven't been around much today, so I wasn't able to sort this out immediately.
Next time, please just report the posts directly so we can get them handled much faster.

It’s honestly heartbreaking how much hate directed at people based on their race or sexual orientation has taken over the Television subforum lately.
We’re doing everything we can to fight it, but it clearly feels like we're falling behind.
And this whole "woke" thing has basically become a cancer infecting almost every discussion; people just blame everything on it. This subforum used to be about having fun, but sadly, over the last few years, it’s turned into such a toxic space—especially when you look at the Series section.
My apologies to everyone.

Also, could we please bring back that Lucifer post being mentioned? If what he said was accurate (unless it was just collateral damage from deleting troll threads), I'd love to see it again. Since you agreed with the complaint, I didn't dig too deep into the specifics, but fundamentally, a series is an extension of the comic. If someone has zero clue about the source material or the author's work, yet they use that lack of knowledge to just bash the show in the most dismissive way possible, then that should probably be moderated too. It really prevents people who actually understand the lore from having a high-quality, meaningful conversation while they're enjoying the show.

Perhaps it would be prudent to establish a dedicated thread specifically for discussing why Netflix's producers seem so intent on pushing a woke agenda... the clearest example being Star Trek Discovery, where a deluge of gay, non-binary, and fluid characters—along with their interpersonal dialogues, which frankly bear little to no relation to the essence of Star Trek—became so dominant that there was essentially nothing left of Star Trek itself 🤷

Hmm, maybe, but looking at how other threads have gone, this would just spiral into hate speech or racism or whatever... leaving nothing but a massive pile of work for the mods and a mountain of bans.

Because:

1. Sandman is basically the textbook definition of unnecessary hysteria since they barely changed anything—those characters were like that in the original books too.

2. Certain groups have been completely ignored by Hollywood for decades, which is understandable given old habits, but I don't see the point in all the whining about some superhero suddenly being Black. It’s really not that deep. Or if a random series features a random gay character, or heaven forbid, a gay couple...

3. It isn't "forcing" an agenda when out of the millions of titles on Netflix, there happen to be 100 LGBT titles. Nobody is forced to watch them. They don't just play themselves; you go in to watch Mad Max, and suddenly there's a subplot about a trans kid in love with a lesbian...

That being said, yeah, there definitely is a problem with forcing things. But that doesn't apply to these specific points. Sometimes there really is a sense that things are being pushed, and that actually warrants a discussion. I haven't seen STD and I'm no expert on that "world," but if it's truly like you say, it could be one of those examples. Or just regular shows set in normal worlds where the LGBT population is drastically disproportionate—just because nobody could be gay in movies for 100 years doesn't mean we fix it by making sure nobody is straight today.

So, there's potential for a conversation here. But I'm afraid it'll just end up devolving into racism, misogyny, homophobia, and all that...

lonebadger6 said:Hmm, maybe, but the issue is that based on what we've seen in other threads, this would just devolve into hate speech or racism or whatever, leaving nothing but a mountain of work for the mods and a pile of bans and deleted posts.

Because:

1. Sandman is basically the textbook definition of unnecessary hysteria, since there’s barely anything—honestly, almost nothing—different; those characters were pretty much like that in the original comics anyway.

2. Certain groups have been completely ignored throughout decades of Hollywood history, which I get, but I don't see any reason to start a massive debate or cry about how, for example, some superhero is suddenly Black. It's really not that deep. Or if some random series features a random gay character, or God forbid, a gay couple.

3. It isn't "forcing" anything to point out that among the roughly 845 million titles on Netflix, there's suddenly a huge chunk of LGBT content. Nobody is forced to watch it. They don't just spawn out of thin air; you go to watch Mad Max, and then suddenly there's a subplot about a trans kid in love with a lesbian.

That being said, yeah, there definitely is an issue with forcing things. But that doesn't apply to these specific points. There really is sometimes a genuine feeling that stuff is being pushed, and that could actually be a valid topic for discussion. I haven't watched STD and I'm no expert on its "universe," but if it's truly like you say, it might be one of those examples. Or just regular shows set in ordinary worlds where the percentage of the LGBT population is drastically disproportionate—just because nobody could be gay in movies for 100 years doesn't mean the fix is to make sure nobody is straight today.

So, there's potential for a discussion here. But I'm afraid it'll just end up turning into racism, misogyny, homophobia, and all that good stuff.

like Blade?