Why?

Where did you find a quote where I said Savannah could compete with Long Beach? Nowhere. That’s just not what I said—you're taking things way out of context...
I've said countless times that the bids for the New York City port were rejected because of Hamburg and the Editor—and actually a few others too, but let the media report on that. Didn't the papers report last month how we were pressured into turning down a port bid?

I warned this forum years ago that Walmart would start sliding once they bought up Target and stuff like that. And sure enough, that's exactly what happened...

What's untrue about criticizing banks for breaking the law? Especially since the US court ruling confirmed it too...
Did I provide plenty of links for my claims? I did. And I used mainstream media links or actual scans—not some obscure random websites...
And you? You've provided nothing.
Everything you say is just "anything that might be good for America" without any substance—it's basically mocking American potential...

People like you are the perfect pawns for this kind of American government!

And why is everyone suddenly talking about IP? I only brought up those claims to explain where that "talking on the subway" phrase came from...
I have to admit, I was pretty surprised by how literally people took that phrase. Does someone actually think people discuss sensitive matters while riding the subway?

Journalists write "in the corridors," while forum users say "on the subway or the ferry"...
You can't seriously think journalists are just eavesdropping in hallways and taking notes on what passersby are saying...

Look, I honestly think you’re the one being totally misguided here if you’re claiming—or rather, if you wrote—that 1918 and 1945 are the root causes of all our problems. And how exactly do you expect...

You obviously just skipped right over the actual data and jumped straight to the stuff I already told you isn't even fact, just opinion.

As for the ports, look, I shouldn't even have to explain that you can't just stick a compass on a map and call it a day (you know, things like rail lines, gradients, pulling power, and the development of the immediate hinterland), but fine, I'll say it anyway:

And you’re still just cherry-picking the bits where you were right, acting like that somehow justifies all those massive lies.

Sandra Brown18 said:There’s something strangely fascinating about riding the subway.🤣

🤣🤣🤣

Mark Harris66 Asks:
.....
I have to admit, I was genuinely taken aback. Taking that phrase entirely too literally.Does anyone actually believe people have deep, sensitive conversations while riding a subway?...

This is your typical pattern of condescension toward everyone you talk to—not to mention your habit of tampering with posts through editing until they’re completely unrecognizable.

Nobody actually thinks you’re going to get the real scoop while riding the subway. 🙄

Would you call it "debating" if someone tries to undermine an argument using data they can't actually back up because they just made it all up on the spot?
And then you have the nerve to be all brief and dismissive about it, acting like you just overheard some random gossip on the subway.

And nobody asked you where that phrase came from.

That's a completely different story. You rushed into things and went straight to accusing the forum of leaking data, yet you haven't produced a single shred of evidence to back that up.

lonetrucker4 said:Most of the people listed in that History PDF have barely ever posted anything, and it's pretty obvious they were picked based on political bias or just being "icons" rather than actual substance. Meanwhile, you've got plenty of regular contributors on this subforum who get totally ignored just because their views don't fit the specific political agenda.

🤦

bluemason3 said:There isn't really anything here that addresses what was said earlier.

The woman even mentioned herself that she doesn't actually believe this originated from the forum.

If the police were truly at her door, then I guess it probably happened through legal channels—you know, like a formal warrant or something similar.

The post she’s responding to is already a bit more complicated, but honestly, even she doesn't know where that information actually came from(and, as I've said before, an IP address alone is never quite enough; you'd always need some other agency involved).

Of course, that's all assuming everyone mentioned is telling the truth...

Well, it seems they enjoy a certain level of trust from their colleagues on this thread. For what it's worth. I suppose if someone were to show up at a workplace or ring a doorbell, obtaining an IP address—whether through a forum leak or a legal court order—is just the first step; the internet provider would also have to get involved to provide the identity behind that IP. I mean, it's possible. It's also possible that back in 2010, this forum was a bit like the Wild West. I don't know. Some reassurance from the admins and Anderson regarding privacy on the Forum definitely wouldn't hurt.

But if we head back to the beginning, Mark Harris66 started this whole story by saying she heard about it over in Women's Corner, and after a brief (and somewhat unusual) explanation, she provided links to the source. So, she wasn't lying here; she was basing her conviction on a story shared by two female forum members whom many others had trusted.

For me, that's enough when it comes to nn (to whom I apologize), as everything else kind of falls outside the scope of this specific thread (what was actually happening at the time). Although, I suppose I would love to know the truth.

Sarah Cooper58 said:That’s just your way of being condescending—not to mention how you tweak edits until they're unrecognizable.

Nobody actually thinks you're getting your intel from the subway... 🙄

You basically try to derail the debate using fake data you can't back up because it's made up.
Then you just casually brush it off by saying you heard it on the train.

And honestly, nobody even asked where you got that phrase.

It's a whole other thing how you rushed things and accused the forum of leaking data—even though you have zero proof for that either.

It wasn't said dismissively. It’s a shame you aren't over at Women's Corner, so you could accuse most of the women there of being dismissive too.
I didn't rush anything. If you want proof, go ask the ladies on here who brought up those "accusations"—the ones that paved the way for this habit of ignoring actual sources and using forum slang instead.
Clearly, despite me explaining it multiple times, you still haven't caught the context behind that phrase...

Linda King said:Well, they seem to enjoy a certain level of trust from colleagues on this thread. For what it's worth. Sure, if someone shows up at a house or rings a doorbell, getting an IP address—whether through a forum leak or a legal subpoena—is just step one. An ISP would have to get involved too to actually link that IP to a person. Look, it's possible. It's also possible that back in 2010, this forum was a total Wild West. Who knows. Some reassurance from the admins and Anderson regarding privacy here wouldn't hurt.

But going back to the start, Mark Harris66 kicked this whole thing off by saying she heard about it over in Women's Corner and then, after some brief (and unusual) hesitation, provided links to the source. So, she wasn't lying; she based her belief on stories from two female users whom many others trusted.

That’s enough for me regarding nn (to whom I apologize); anything else falls outside the scope of this specific discussion (what was actually happening at the time). Though, honestly, I'd love to know.

Now... out of those two, one said she didn't think it came from the site itself, while for the other, it's unclear if there's actual proof, if someone told her unverified rumors, or if she just made a "gut feeling" guess that they found her that way—which is actually quite likely.

And when nn said that this was a claim made by one user or another, she presented it as a fact, quoting:

A few years ago in Women's Corner, people showed up at a user's door because of some totally harmless gossip (a disgraced public figure had requested the forum's IP address).

And it's framed as if this were some standard or official procedure from high-level authorities, since it wasn't some moderator friend leaking info, but rather "she requested it from the forum."
Even if she did get it, that wouldn't be enough; the disgraced public figure would still have to go to the ISP to track down an actual address. Maybe it was Kolinda and she mobilized the secret services? 😁 Eit: Fuck, back then it was Jacqueline and Ivo Josipović. 🤣

Linda King said:Well, it looks like they definitely have some level of trust from their colleagues here. For what it's worth... Sure, if someone shows up at your house or rings your doorbell, getting an IP address—whether through a forum leak or a legal court order—is really just step one. You'd still need the ISP to step up and actually hand over the identity behind that IP. I mean, it's possible. It's also possible back in 2010, this forum was basically the Wild West. Who knows? A little reassurance from the admins and Anderson regarding privacy on the Forum wouldn't hurt, though...

But going back to how this started, Mark Harris66 kicked the whole thing off by saying she heard about it over at Women's Corner—and after a quick (and unusual) clarification, she even provided links to the sources. So, she wasn't lying here; she was just basing her belief on stories from two female members that plenty of others believed too.

That's enough for me regarding nn (to whom I owe an apology)—anything else pretty much falls outside the scope of this specific thread (what was actually happening at the time). Though, honestly, I'd love to know...

Thanks so much for sharing that story, I really appreciate it.🙂.

Sarah Cooper58 said:...

I don't think anyone actually expects to get this kind of information while riding the subway. 🙄

....

This is probably a bit off-topic, I guess, but I really love that phrase. I appreciate that they took us coastal folks into account too; you can definitely hear those sentiments out on the ferries, too. 🤣

Sandra Brown18 said:That wasn't meant as a joke. It’s a shame you aren't over on Women's Corner, otherwise you could accuse most of the women there of writing crudely.
I didn't rush my words. If you want evidence, go ask the female users who leveled those "accusations," which paved the way for the upcoming practice of ignoring actual sources and relying on forum slang instead.
Clearly, despite my multiple attempts at explaining, you haven't grasped the context of that phrase.

I understand the context perfectly; there's no need for you to explain it because I know exactly what's going on, with or without your input.

No, using a phrase like 'people are saying it on the subway' is fine for casual chat, and on Women's Corner, it's actually quite normal and established.

But bringing that same language into a serious debate anywhere else on this forum is just mocking your interlocutors and undermining the discussion.

You're trying to lump everything together right now, and it's simply not going to work.

By the way, I've used that exact same phrase on the casual threads two or three times myself, so I suggest you stop 'moralizing' about what I should or shouldn't be saying to the girls over there.

_____

E:

Linda King said:This is off-topic, but that phrase is classic, and I appreciate that they took us from the coast into account—you can hear things like that even on a ferry ride. 🤣

Yeah, a water taxi—in my case, if I recall correctly, 🤔. 😁

bluemason3 said:So, looking at it now... one of those two ladies mentioned she doesn't think it actually came from the forum, but with the other one, it’s just unclear if there's any real proof. I guess it's hard to tell if someone told her that (unverified, of course) or if she just made a "gut feeling" assumption about how they reached her, which honestly seems pretty likely.

And when she claimed it was just some random user's assertion, she presented it as an absolute fact, quoting:

It’s almost like she’s treating this as some kind of standard, official procedure from higher authorities—as if it wasn't just a friend or a moderator passing info along, but rather that "she requested it from the forum."
Even if she actually did get that info, it wouldn't be enough; an ousted public figure would have to go all the way to the ISP to try and track down an address. Maybe she was Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović back then and just tapped the secret services? 😁Eit: Fuck, back then it was Jacqueline and Ivo Josipović 🤣

I respect all those points, but honestly, if I had stumbled upon that gossip myself, I probably would have jumped off the boat with the exact same conviction she had. And in a few years, that rumor might have just calcified into "truth" for me too, unless someone corrected me or my source. In that sense, I suppose her explanation is enough for me.

Look, if heavyweights like the Washington Post, the New York Times, and CNN can pull the whole "anonymous sources" routine to back up most of their reporting, I don't see why some anonymous forum dwellers can't cite their own anonymous sources too. Honestly, maybe they *are* that mysterious anonymous source who’s just trying to stay off the grid.

Besides, you can always throw out an accusation of trolling that's about as flimsy as the claim Julia made against someone else.☕

An anonymous source from the transit authority told me that NN was busy snooping through the IP addresses of all the leftists on this forum back when she was a moderator. Because of that, I’m calling for a permanent ban.☕

Linda King said:I respect all those points, but honestly, if I had stumbled upon that kind of nonsense myself, I would have jumped off the ferry with the exact same conviction she did, and in a few years, that delusion would have hardened into my absolute truth. If nobody steps up to correct me or my source, then so be it. In that sense, her explanation is more than enough for me.

Look at the context here: this is a post from several years after the events took place, written by the very woman who lived through it, expressing her own doubts about whether everything was handled legally—essentially talking about an IP claim and all that other business...

Regarding IP and the supposed "protection" of forum users.
I used to be a moderator for Tourism (and one other PDF). Back when threads were popping up about specific travel agencies, there was a lot of heat—lots of complaints against certain companies. Those agencies would put massive pressure on me to just scrub the posts and penalize the users who wrote them.
I didn't cave. Instead, I told them they were more than welcome to register on the forum themselves and address those criticisms and complaints publicly...
The companies being called out? They didn't even take the opportunity to respond to the feedback.
Instead, they just kept coming at me—persistently. They even threatened me with personal lawsuits because I wouldn't play ball. I did my homework on those agencies, though, and it turned out they were getting sued by people all over the place.
I brought the whole thing up in the moderator PDF to see how the others would handle threats like that, and we had a quick debate about it. I don't have access to the moderator area anymore, so I can't drop a link... but it doesn't really matter now.
The bottom line is that some of those agencies eventually went under, and those lawsuits actually moved forward. If I had buckled under the pressure and the threats—if I’d deleted the comments and banned the users—other people would have ended up booking trips with those scammers, totally blindsided because they never saw the warnings about their bad experiences.
Look, obviously not every critique on a forum is valid—there’s plenty of nonsense out there, which you'd expect—but that’s exactly why I gave the criticized companies a chance to speak up. That’s what a forum is for: a discussion where everyone gets a shot to reply if they feel they've been wronged.
Not one colleague or supervisor stood up for me back then. So much for "protecting" moderators, let alone the users...

One more thing: late February last year (right after Wuhan shut down), a few of us were warning everyone about the dangers of COVID-19. We were constantly getting warned or banned by a moderator who insisted it was nothing more than a common flu.
Sadly, the death tolls in America and globally tell a different story—that disease was way more serious than the flu. For those of us who kept getting banned or flagged, we never even got an apology for being right about the epidemic risks.

And then there was the time I got attacked for supposedly making things up regarding offers for the Port of New York City (rejections). Various news outlets eventually released reports that confirmed exactly what I’d said—things I "just heard on the subway," apparently.
I'm still waiting on an apology from the users who attacked me and claimed I was lying about how those offers were being rejected due to outside pressure.

bluemason3 said:I actually had an anonymous transit insider tell me that NN used to go around leaking everyone's IP-eve if they leaned even slightly left while she was a moderator, so honestly, I’m calling for a permanent ban right now☕

Man, I totally believe you🙂

You weren't actually warning anyone about COVID; you were just fueling panic by parroting the same tired narrative over and over again. It got so exhausting that I eventually just walked away to ZK, where people could actually have a normal, open conversation about everything...
And that’s exactly what I’m going to do again—I have no use for this.

Sandra Brown18 said:Speaking of intellectual property and "protecting" users.
I used to be a moderator for the tourism section (along with one other person). When threads popped up about specific travel agencies, there were plenty of complaints and criticisms leveled against certain companies. Those agencies would then pressure me to delete posts or penalize the users making them.
I refused. Instead, I told them they were more than welcome to register on this site and address the criticism publicly themselves.
The criticized companies didn't want to take that opportunity to defend themselves.
They kept coming at me, though. Persistent threats, too—even threatening me personally with lawsuits because I wouldn't cave. I did some digging into those agencies, and it turned out they were being sued by people from all over.
I brought the matter to the other moderators in our private group to see how they’d handle such threats, and we had a brief debate about it. I don't have access to the moderator portal anymore, so I can't provide a link... but it’s not really relevant now.
The bottom line is that some of those agencies went under, and lawsuits were indeed filed. If I had buckled under the pressure and started deleting comments or banning users, people would still be booking trips through those scammers, completely unaware of the bad experiences others had had.
Of course, not every critique on a forum is valid; there's always going to be some exaggeration, which is expected. That's exactly why I gave those companies a chance to respond. That’s what a forum is for: discussion, where everyone has a chance to reply if they feel they've been wronged.
None of my colleagues or supervisors stood by me back then. So much for "protecting" moderators, let alone the users.

One more thing: late February last year (right after Wuhan was locked down), a few of us were warning everyone about the dangers of COVID-19. We were frequently flagged or banned by a moderator who insisted it was just the flu.
Unfortunately, the death tolls in the US and globally show the virus was significantly more dangerous than the flu. For those of us who were constantly getting banned or warned, we never received an apology for being right about the epidemic risk.

Similarly, I was attacked for allegedly making things up regarding offers for the Port of Cleveland (rejections). Various news outlets eventually published reports that confirmed what I had said (which critics claimed I "heard on a subway").
I’m still waiting for an apology from the users who attacked me and accused me of lying about how those offers were being rejected due to outside pressure.

Completely irrelevant.

Sarah Cooper58 said:I get what you mean by that phrase—no need to explain, I already know what's going on without you telling me...

Look, using an expression like "people are saying so on the subway" is totally fine in the Ladies' Lounge section—that's just how things work over there.

But bringing that same vibe into a serious debate anywhere else on this forum? That’s just mocking people and derailing the conversation...

You're trying to lump everything together right now, and it's just not working.

By the way, even I’ve used that exact same phrase two or three times in the Ladies' Lounge—so please, let's skip the "moralizing" about what I should be saying to the girls there.

_____

E:

Yeah, a water taxi—if I remember correctly, in my case...🤔. 😁

Are you seriously suggesting the Ladies' Lounge is some "unserious" sub-forum? If that's the logic, then every single topic and discussion there is "unserious," which is exactly why talking about subway rides or ferry trips is allowed. Why would public figures be any less protected than, say, big banks—which I won't even name specifically because I just make general points when criticizing them?

I’d love for the forum rules to actually specify which sections are "serious" vs. "unserious," and exactly what we can talk about where. Maybe even a list of terms we're only allowed to use in specific sections...
Nothing should happen without clear rules.
Also, could someone please define what counts as a "serious discussion"?
If the goal is to make the Politics section "serious" too—whatever that's supposed to mean—then 90% of the posts there should probably be deleted since they wouldn't meet that standard.
Just be careful what you wish for, lest it comes back to bite you...