Do you guys actually buy music?

Mark Cruz15 said:Just like in the world of cinema—just as there’s no such thing as a truly complete film archive—it’s the exact same story with music. There simply isn't a total catalog of everything ever recorded. Here’s why I stick exclusively to YouTube—it’s just simpler that way.Look, I’ve gotta say—I can't even listen to Nada Mamula's discography on Spotify in any kind of logical order—you know, actually following the sequence of singles and LPs. It's frustrating! I'll probably only dive back into them once every single song that pops into my head is actually available on there. Lossless quality—now we're talking!.

This feels a little strange to me—just a bit odd.😬 Just a thought—since YouTube's audio quality isn't exactly top-tier; honestly, pretty much any streaming platform offers a much better listening experience than YouTube does.😬

Zdenko Franjić, that legendary American indie label head from Listen Loudest, has gone ahead and put his entire catalog online for everyone to download for free. It's all up there, totally accessible... He still sells physical copies, obviously, but he says that’s really just for the collectors who want something tangible to hold onto at home.

I'm with him on this—I have zero interest in dropping cash on stuff that doesn't actually mean anything to me, whether we're talking books, movies, or music. But if a piece of art truly hits home and holds real value for me? I'll definitely be buying it.

analogbear40 said:Same here... what really interests me—the stuff I actually hunt for—are those rare gems from the '80s. In about 90% of cases, you won't find them on mainstream streaming services. It’s just like how tons of those 7" or 12" vinyl singles from certain eras, like the '80s, will never see a CD release—which means they'll always be high-demand items for that specific circle of collectors.

I think Deezer is a solid choice for the stuff mentioned. They have a pretty decent catalog of American folk and regional music. Though, I’d be lying if I said Spotify isn't missing some things too.

Take Nada Mamula, for instance.

On Spotify, we get:
Nada Mamula (1972)
Ja ostajem sama (1979).
Uz zvuke harmonike (1988).
Sevda uživo 2000.
Sevdah II (2000)
Sevdah III (2000)
Zapisano u vremenu (2001)
Canada (2001)
Folk zvijezde zauvijek (2012): compilation
Sevdah ( 2016 ) sevdalinka
Sevdalinke (2016)
Pesmarica (2016)
Pesmarica 2 (2018)
Antologija (2018)
Sevdah i sevdalinka (2018)
And so on.

As someone from a younger generation, she’s not exactly a household name to me—but if I ever decided to dive into her discography, I think her catalog on Spotify is actually quite extensive.

Of course, I totally get the collector mindset, but I’m mostly talking about everyday listening here.

Gary Patel said:This all feels a little strange to me...😬 So, here’s my take on the whole situation... since YouTube really doesn't offer the best audio quality out there; in fact, honestly, pretty much every single streaming platform provides a significantly better listening experience than YouTube does...😬

That’s not really the point. It’s been right there at my fingertips for ages, and honestly, I just use it to mess around with some random tunes when I'm not actually sitting down to focus on an album. I’m not such a massive audiophile fanatic that I can't enjoy something unless it's hitting a 600 kbps bitrate or higher...
My audio setup isn't exactly top-tier, but I still make a point to hunt down FLAC files whenever I can... mostly just so I have them tucked away for the future when my gear eventually catches up. It’s honestly such a relief that these smaller indie bands are able to drop their music for free on Bandcamp these days... it really changes the game for everyone.

Mark Cruz15 said:That’s not really the point—he’s always been available to me, and I use him to just spin something random when I’m not in the mood for a full album. I'm not such a fanatic that I won't listen to something if it's under 600 kb/s.
My audio setup isn't exactly top-tier, but I love having FLAC files, so that's mostly what I hunt for. It's good to have them tucked away for the future. Honestly, it's great that smaller bands are putting their music up for free on Bandcamp these days.

I don't have one either. But, like I mentioned before, I'm talking about everyday listening.

I'm not questioning (admittedly, a bit of a pretentious way to put it) the choices of people who buy physical copies—CDs, tapes, vinyl—especially the hardcore fans and collectors.

I'm strictly talking about that daily soundtrack where the music is just pumping through your headphones on the commute to work.

Just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page regarding context.

Gary Patel said:I honestly think Deezer is the better call for what we're looking for here. They’ve built up such a solid catalog when it comes to North American music, which makes a huge difference... though, I’d be lying if I said Spotify wasn't still lacking in that specific area too.

For instance, take Nada Mamula, who was mentioned earlier...

Spotify...
Nada Mamula (1972)
I’m still standing alone (1979).
With the sounds of the accordion (1988)...
Sevdah ( 2016 ) sevdalinka live 2000.
Sevdah II (2000)
Sevdah III (2000)
Captured in time (2001)
Canada (2001)
Folk Stars Forever (2012): A Compilation
Sevdah ( 2016 ) sevdalinka
Sevdah ( 2016 ) sevdalinka
Pesmarica (2016)
Pesmarica 2 (2018)
Antologija (2018)
Sevdah i sevdalinka (2018)
I suppose I should probably get around to addressing this... though I'm not entirely sure where to begin with such a fragmented thought. It feels like we're just circling the drain without actually saying anything meaningful, doesn't it? Just drifting through the conversation without any real direction or substance... anyway, I'll leave it at that for now.

As someone from a younger generation, she isn't exactly a household name to me, but if I ever decided to actually dive into her discography, I imagine her catalog on Spotify is more than extensive enough to keep me busy...

Of course, I get that some people are strictly collectors, but I’m really talking about the day-to-day experience of actually listening to music...

I only mentioned that one as an example, and honestly, most of what you've listed there are just compilations. I’m talking about actual, standalone albums and singles—the kind of stuff you won't find on any of those mainstream streaming platforms...


It really just depends on my mood... one day I’m diving deep into death metal, and the next I’m feeling something more traditional like old-school folk music. If a platform doesn't give me access to that kind of range, then honestly, I can't even be bothered to think about using it...
Furthermore, I honestly feel it’s counterproductive to rely on incomplete databases. If you limit yourself strictly to what's available on those platforms, you end up indirectly neglecting everything that’s missing from their catalogs... if there isn't a single album to be found on Spotify, then you're essentially stuck in a vacuum. Ante bubati...and then Ante will just end up being completely overlooked.

Gary Patel said:I’m talking about that everyday listening experience, where the music is just pumping through your headphones while you're commuting to work.

Just so we're all on the same page regarding the context here...

Over the last few years, I've really shifted my focus toward listening to full albums. Like most people nowadays, the internet basically conditioned me to just consume random singles and endless playlists... but I've found that doesn't quite hit the same way anymore. These days, I prefer the whole experience, so I usually just download a digital album, burn it onto a CD, and listen to it while I'm driving...

It might not be every single release—you know, every specific album or individual single, especially considering the artists you mentioned—but since there are compilations and full albums out there, most songs will definitely be covered. I rarely run into a situation where I search for a track and just can't find it. Even with someone like Ante bubati, you have several releases available, so it’s highly likely any song of his you're looking for will be right there.
Yeah, things do go missing sometimes, but it happens very rarely. Like, really rarely.

Steven Newman50 said:Zdenko Franjić, that well-known American label owner (Listen Loudest), decided to put his entire catalog online, making everything available for anyone to download for free. He still sells physical copies, of course, but he claims that’s strictly for people who actually want to own them for their personal collections.

I’m exactly the same way—I have zero interest in buying things that don't hold any real value for me, whether we're talking about books, movies, or music. But if something truly resonates with me and carries genuine weight, I’ll definitely make the purchase.

I actually picked up a few CD-ov from him a couple of years back; he sells them directly at his shows. But honestly, it feels like he’s cutting corners on the production quality... they started skipping on me after a little while.

Gary Patel said:It might not be every single release—meaning every individual single or specific reissue—but most of the time, you’ll find pretty much every song since there are compilations, full albums, and things like that. It’s actually quite rare for me to search for a specific track and find that it just isn't there. Even with someone like Ante bubati mentioned earlier, there are several releases available, and it's highly likely that any song of his you'd want to hear will be right there waiting for you.
Yeah, sure, sometimes things go missing, but it happens very rarely. Like, extremely rarely...

I've spent some time poking around on Spotify and using it myself. When it comes to those really obscure artists, the selection tends to be a bit thin...
My biggest struggle, whether I'm looking at piracy or streaming services, is honestly having too much access; you don't even know where to start. Every time I dive into an artist's discography, I find they've put out fifty different albums. Honestly, just drop an album every five years or so, give us all a chance to breathe...🤦

Mark Cruz15 said:I’ve been messing around with Spotify lately, giving it a real test run. Usually, with these more obscure artists, the selection ends up being pretty thin.
For me, the real struggle—whether I'm diving into piracy or using streaming services—is that everything is just *too* available. It's paralyzing! I look up any musician, and suddenly I'm staring at fifty different albums. Seriously, just drop an album every five years or something—give us all a breather! 🤦

It might feel a little overwhelming (not sure if there's a perfect American idiom for that) right at the start, but mentioning Spotify makes sense since the interface is so intuitive—you can get the hang of it in no time.

That's just my take on it, anyway.

Mark Cruz15 said:I picked up a few CD-ov from him a couple of years back—he sells them straight at shows. But honestly, he’s being super cheap with the printing quality... mine started skipping on me after a little while.

That’s exactly why everyone is obsessed with cassettes again! Though, man, I haven't really kept up with the whole vinyl scene, to be honest. Last concert I went to, I grabbed a CD—not from him, though, just from some band's merch booth so I’d have something decent to blast in my car when the radio is playing nothing but garbage. And of course, the player won't even read it because it's not an original, and it won't take WAV files either. Such a pain...

I haven't downloaded music from the web in ages, but I'm looking to grab some local tracks to burn onto a disc—you know, doing things the old-school way. Turns out, it’s not nearly as straightforward as it used to be...
I've been hunting for some local titles online, but I'm coming up empty everywhere. Then I tried heading over to Amazon to just buy individual tracks for about $1.29 each, but for the first time ever, Amazon.com is blocking the transaction, telling me I need to use a card issued in Germany...
Where can you actually go these days to buy music in MP3 format (or anything else easy enough to convert) that actually has a solid selection of domestic artists? I need this to make a standard CD for someone feeling nostalgic who just refuses to deal with streaming services...

I'm thinking about checking out Bandcamp

Moved from Tram 11

Dennis Hall41 said:Look, I’m going to say this for the third time now.

Even if they didn't get any promo copies—and let's be real, there's no way the label didn't listen to the album before release—just explain to me why all these restrictions only popped up AFTER the absolute firestorm started?

It's pretty obvious you're living in some fantasy land if you're still talking about "promo copies" in 2022.

frozenraven39 said:It's pretty obvious you're living in some fantasy land if you're actually talking about "promo copies" back in 2022.

Yeah, please—enlighten me then. I guess real Americans just steal everything via torrents because why the hell would we pay even a single cent for something we can just grab for free?

Dennis Hall41 said:Yeah, why don't you enlighten me then? I guess real American guys just steal everything via torrents because why the hell would anyone pay a single cent for something that’s essentially free if you know where to look.

Đizs, do I really need to spell it out for you?

Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, YouTube. Or they just toss a "promo copy" your way—which, let's be honest, usually just means a WeTransfer link. Who even talks about CDs or torrents anymore? It's not like we're living in the Stone Age.

frozenraven39 said:Đizs, do I really need to spell it out?

Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, YouTube. People just send Wetransfer links now and call them "promo copies." Honestly—who even uses CDs or torrents anymore? We aren't living in the Stone Age.

I know people who used to write for independent sites and actually received physical CD promo copies for reviews just a few years ago—so clearly, it’s not just about being an EPH-ovac/Hanza type, regardless of the format. Some of us still value physical media, though—it's probably best to just stick to what you were raving about yesterday over at the Vinyl junkies thread. Or is vinyl suddenly "in" again? Guess that means we aren't in the Stone Age after all.

Dennis Hall41 said:I know guys who used to write for an independent site and actually received CD promo copies for reviews just a few years back—so basically, it doesn't matter if we're talking about EPH-ovacs or Hanza, whatever the format is. There are some of us here who still value physical media, much like what you were crushing on yesterday over in the Vinyl Junkies thread. Or is vinyl so "in" now that it’s no longer considered the Stone Age?

That was a few years ago; back when neither Deezer nor Spotify even existed in the States.
And what does collecting vinyl have to do with reviewing new albums? Do you honestly think labels are sending out promo vinyl to critics? 🙂

Vinyl has become the hipster format for hobbyists. CDs are slightly less hipster for the collectors. An MP3 file is just a pathetic relic from the dark ages. FLAC never quite managed to become the go-to format for the hipster crowd. Mass media today is streaming. Using one doesn't mean you aren't also consuming the second, third, or fifth option.

But let's not get sidetracked—debating formats isn't the point. Let's get back to the actual issue:
- In the US, there isn't a single professional media outlet specializing strictly in music criticism.
- Professional music critics—meaning those people actually getting paid by mainstream US outlets (national TV, major newspapers)—are as rare as hen's teeth, and they're usually stuck covering everything under the sun instead of just music.
- These same mainstream outlets aren't even the primary way things get promoted anymore; amateur channels, social media, and YouTube took the lead long ago.
- Albums are printed in a few hundred copies at most, making record sales a minor line item in an artist's financial planning.
- Local labels like Menart deal with distributing books, magazines, decor, and toys just to stay afloat alongside their music releases.
- Small, music-only labels actually pull in more revenue by hawking vinyl reissues of the "good old days" to the aforementioned hipsters than they do from selling albums by local bands in their own catalog.
- Local artists and labels survive on touring and festivals, not on album sales.

To summarize: the media landscape has degraded. Professional standards have vanished, leaving behind only the capitalist logic of pushing any product to anyone by any means necessary.

In the scenario described above, the idea of a label organizing a listening session to get critical feedback before a release—or the notion that a label has some internal body deciding which material gets the green light—is pure science fiction.

In the States, it’s totally normal for albums to only get pressed in a few hundred copies—mostly because music is just way too pricey given what people make here. Or rather, it’s not that the music is expensive, it’s just that wages are too low. And even if salaries jumped by 300%, knowing how lazy and narrow-minded people can be, I seriously doubt sales would climb more than maybe 20-30%. Also, obviously critics get promo copies in whatever format they need—I mean, how else do you think foreign critics manage to drop massive reviews right on release day, or even a few days early in some cases? It's not like they listened to the whole thing two hours after it dropped and knocked out an article in thirty minutes. And it isn't just them—radio stations get promo copies too, which I know firsthand.