[B]Pour Mademoiselle Duba[/B]

It wouldn't have been a problem, but let’s be honest—it’s an exercise in futility, much like what you predicted: some people simply refuse to learn, no matter how many times you explain things to them.
However, this serves as yet another compelling reason for you to distribute the cards within your own domain once you decide enough is enough. This is precisely why I requested at the very beginning that you open the chat; it would have been far more efficient...

I appreciate your patience.

The chat has been active for quite some time now, and you just posted there a moment ago.

My apologies, I didn't look closely enough. That wasn't the right thread; I was referring to the one where you serve as moderator. It was a clumsy way of putting it, which effectively turned my comment into its own discussion.
There is no such thing as a "joke" in these matters. The moment someone displays even a hint of rudeness or persistent demagoguery on that communication channel, they should be immediately banned.
Furthermore, that judgment remains relevant until a definitive solution is finally reached.
In my view, that is the only way to resolve this with any degree of necessary speed. I failed to be sufficiently clear; please accept my apologies...

And this

It will be easier for you first 😁
Notice how I have even updated my signature since you arrived...

I appreciate all the suggestions and the willingness to cooperate.

Using a chat room as a direct line to the moderators isn't exactly standard practice. While some subforums have dedicated threads for layout suggestions and improvements, I don't see any real necessity for one on this specific board.

I stepped in recently; it took me a moment to get things back on track after things spiraled a bit during unknown's absence, but I’d say order has been restored—at least for now. By "order," I mean the basic standards of how users communicate with one another. Whether this peace lasts remains to be seen.

I will take this opportunity to reiterate that I won't hesitate to hand out long-term bans, and I already have a growing list of candidates for partial suspensions. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to activating that list.

As for the community itself: talk, debate, review, start new threads... we really don't need a "Moderator Chat" for that. I tried it myself, and it became clear almost immediately that it was a total failure, and I have no intention of making that mistake again. 🙂

😁 You neglected to mention $33 without any protest on that thread.
You are an absolute authority and a lightning rod, rather than someone being suffocated by those cyclical arguments that nobody wants to examine from an outside perspective.
As you would say, it remains the absolute law of the PDF until an undeniably argued solution emerges to refute your verdict.

I'm done
I won't tolerate this anymore

P.S. And lest I forget, consider the penalty handed down to Route 66; it was truly unnecessary.
I could easily demonstrate how their opponents lack even basic knowledge and write nothing but universal nonsense, making their supposed "contribution" to this forum highly questionable.
It appears I am constantly boasting, yet I have no issue resolving any issue in this field, which effectively negates any reason for their perceived "added value" to the PDF.
The points they once offered as "advice or criticism" were dismantled long ago... and they never actually listened to, nor even attempted to consider, any proposals.
I always provide a warning, several times over, when things begin to approach the edge of a freefall.
It would be simple enough to attach that one post about the Great Lakes, just so you can see how a post should be written using purely technical terminology...
Nothing "personal," no rude or condescending remarks—the kind of language "they" regularly employ. It is only natural that they feel threatened when they fail to grasp even the basic terminology.
It is genuinely unjust because I cannot adequately describe how those who target you only serve to promote utter discomfort and ignorance, only to then "latch on" to my posts whenever I write.

I truly mean it, I'm finished /considering that this was the only path to you.../ giving freedom to Route 66
Best regards
Sincerely

Unless a solution comes from the higher echelons of this forum's hierarchy—and I mean one backed by actual logic rather than just baseless claims—it isn't going to overturn my ruling.

$33 As $33 points out, I’ll be able to afford a top-of-the-line Hi-Fi system in twenty years. Or perhaps much sooner, if you all continue to push my buttons. 😉

You’re being quite aggressive, say yes

Do be a dear and launch that channel; I can guarantee it will be a complete rollercoaster😁

I won't be around for a week😁

Jerry Robinson56 said:...And if they actually want to buy something, unknown could help them out since he's got tons of experience....

That’s the point. Thanks for chiming in, because people like you are exactly why this matters...

See, this is the crux of the whole thing...

If I didn't give a damn about audio gear, and I actually needed advice on some setup, I'd go straight to unknown first.
Not you, not woobie, not anyone on Route 66, because honestly? I doubt I'd get a single coherent answer from any of you... I'd go to unknown. Period.
Even if I think he goes way overboard with those famous cables—and even if he'd probably just laugh at me for asking about them—he's still the one I'd turn to for anything else.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've read a mountain of smart posts from him over the last decade. From the rest of you? I can't remember a single thing...
Because as far as I can tell, everything with you guys boils down to "my dad is tougher than your dad" and all that nonsense...
Just constant, relentless tilting at windmills about blind tests, claiming every cable is the same, blah blah blah...

Maybe I am off base, since for the last year or so I've mostly just scrolled past any thread that smells like "audio," cable talk, or blind testing. I just don't have the energy for the endless bickering that basically loops back to the same point over and over again...

What really gets under my skin is that you've moved this fighting to pretty much every other topic. Even the chat used to be readable, but now? I give it a wide berth.

Seriously, if you're all so absolutely certain you're right about these cables and blind tests—and hey, maybe you are—then why the hell is there still constant arguing about it????
Why on earth? Why the fighting, the insults, and the repetitive nonsense if you're so completely, 100% sure about it 🤷

stormybadger8 said:See, this is precisely where the crux of the matter lies...

If I were someone who actually cared about audio technology, and I found myself needing advice regarding high-end audio, I would seek it primarily from unknown.
Not you, not woobie, nor Route 66, because I frankly doubt I would receive any coherent or useful response from them...but rather from unknown...
And even though I believe he exaggerates quite heavily regarding those famous cables, and even if he would likely just laugh at his theories on cabling, I would still turn to him for everything else...

That is your prerogative. When you desire to "drive" a starship rather than a beat-up Ford Pinto or a rusted Chevy, feel free to ask whatever questions you wish.
Until then, the aforementioned individual is more than sufficient for you.
And truly, I know nothing of Pintos or Chevys, though I did enjoy driving them. If I may ask, what is your profession? I am certain you would get an exceptionally precise and accurate answer from Route 66, as well as from woobie, whereas it is nearly impossible to get such a thing from unknown, because one must first be objective, and he is incapable of being anything but subjective.
He cannot grasp, nor can he accept, that there exists someone who possesses more knowledge than he does, provided that person isn't Methuselah. Reality is simply too much for unknown to handle.
And besides, he’s already getting on my nerves...

stormybadger8 said:I may be mistaken, but I have read a mountain of intelligent posts from him over the last decade; from the rest of you, I can't recall a single thing...
Because as far as I can remember, everything with you people boils down to "my dad is stronger than your dad" and all that nonsense...
Just constant, relentless tilting at windmills about some absurd nonsense, claiming every cable is the same and blah blah blah...

If you think you're mistaken, you need only look at this thread...
http://www.example-forum.com/showpost.php?p=7...postcount=4670
I stepped in and resolved a man's trivial problem with a single post, devoid of empty philosophical jargon, unlike your loyal follower.
You will find that he is quite lost, and I could prove it to you anywhere, anytime, in any of his posts, but I thought better of it; I won't write any more before my trip, nor here, otherwise it will cost me more, since I stumbled into a "combat scenario" instead of listening to well-intentioned advice... or rather, a promise... boo. That is a bit strong, isn't it?
The individual known as unknown has no grasp of the fundamentals; he is merely a long-time spectator. And that is not an insult, but a plain fact. It seems you haven't read his nonsense regarding speaker cable stereo separation... it is such absurdity that it is almost inconceivable, and certainly not his greatest blunder. It drives me mad, dealing with "such" charlatans. Though perhaps this is just my natural state of being. 🙂.
But as I said, Pintos or Chevys—whatever. If you even start one up, it's the end of the world. I have seen and heard equipment that requires you to be more than just a "local" multi-millionaire; you wait for it like you're waiting for a Ferrari... and if you don't have the room prepared to their specifications, they won't even sell it to you. And if I may be so bold, the sound quality isn't even that special, though they look otherworldly. They don't talk about price; they just boast about who paid the most.
Sound sources are an entirely different beast altogether—turntables, cassette decks, MP3 players, DAT, CD players... it is absolute madness. My next turntable will be


As for this one, I have owned it for over thirty years, yet it looks as though it stepped out of a showroom just yesterday.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/turntable-listing-example
I also possess a Nakamichi ZX-9; at one point, it was priced four times higher than the 1210, even without the cartridge.

By the way, why don't you provide a single logical argument that breaks this down into simple facts, or perhaps let your preferred expert choose.
None of us ever claimed that all cables are created equal. You either made a mistake, or you simply read where "they" claim such things about "us," employing nothing more than amateurish demagoguery.

stormybadger8 said:Perhaps I am mistaken, as for the better part of a year I have mostly just scrolled past any thread that even smells of "audio." I avoid any discussion regarding cables, blind tests, and the endless bickering that follows, because frankly, I have no desire to endure such repetitive, circular arguments.

I am not engaging in bickering, but if you go looking for trouble, you will certainly find it. Instead of turning a deaf ear, people continue to pile on nonsense like this post.

http://www.americanforum.com/showpost.php?p=7...postcount=6316

That is essentially waving a red flag.
I wouldn't even bother showing up, but I feel a sense of embarrassment regarding his empty assertions toward others. I attempt to give him a gentle warning, and yet, there he goes again, acting like the "expert."
Make no mistake, this isn't jealousy or anything directed at me personally. I am perfectly capable of writing with clinical detachment, as I previously promised. However, since you arrived here with sincerity and emotion, I am responding in kind. I once offered a recommendation to unknown and suggested we meet up at a local diner to discuss his equipment line, but it was all in vain; he simply stands on his pedestal and poses for photos. There was once a magnificent post by Route 66 that was quite vivid—perhaps I can still locate it; it was pure genius.

stormybadger8 said:What irritates me is that this constant bickering has migrated to a multitude of other topics, and even the chatrooms I used to frequent; now, I avoid them entirely.

It is hardly surprising; certain individuals have arrived who believe they truly know everything—not because they are more intelligent, but simply because they attended a university, and therefore they think they know!
My equipment functions flawlessly to this day because of how it was engineered. It was designed using precision measuring instruments and high-end devices that served as industry standards. That is why it is "painful" to see Route 66, whom I know absolutely nothing about, being harassed by chaotic ignoramuses while I write these "harsh posts"... just look at this one thread to see how another "expert" behaves after I "intimidated" him.
Once again, one must realize that an experience is one thing, but the explanation of that experience is something else entirely, especially when they are merely feeding you your own perception rather than allowing you to enter their sphere.

stormybadger8 said:I mean, if you are all absolutely convinced that you are correct regarding those cables and the blind tests—and frankly, I am inclined to agree that you are—then why on earth continue this endless bickering?
Why, for heaven's sake, the constant back-and-forth, the insults, and the repetitive arguments if you are supposedly so certain of your position? 🤷

It isn't "us" being targeted; rather, it is specific individuals who are called out in every single one of their posts.

I happened to glance at what woobiu and Gedu—that self-proclaimed light resistor and stereo separator in a single mono cable—are attempting to pull off. 🤦
If you were to read dozens of my deleted posts, which the unknown systematically removed—admittedly via reports, though there was no other choice and time was short, so they ended up in the trash along with the garbage produced by this duo—you would certainly hold a different opinion. I respect the experience provided by unknown, which can be helpful, and I see that he intends to help... but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It is not merely that they spout nonsense; it is that they attempt to convince others of their ignorance, and then they run crying to the moderator claiming they are being victimized while "we" are labeled as common and rude.

People, please wake up... what kind of "presence" is this?
If you didn't scream when you were violated, did you essentially consent?

Here is an example, following my resolution of a man's issue within a thread.

The ramblings of a total amateur, whom I have intentionally chosen not to engage with.

Here is something for high school level understanding. Everything is irrelevant except for the shielding I mentioned in my previous post, yet the "expert" continues his arrogant lecture.

A digital signal consists of only two values and is fully restored at the receiving end regardless of anything unknown listed. Jitter is the only factor that matters. Is that sufficient proof for you that unknown has no clue what he is talking about? Though, I won't bother intervening for the sake of hobbyists and amateurs. Error correction codes exist, but that is beside the point now.

Is it clearer to you now just how merciful I am being toward him? Yet, he will persist in his ways.
I swear, he will simply take what I have written and serve it to others as "he knows what he's talking about." He doesn't even know how to use a basic multimeter; he admitted that himself.
He wouldn't even know how to turn on the equipment I work with (his English is just as poor).

If the moderator restores my post regarding power and speaker cables, you will know absolutely everything about them after reading just those two sentences.

I have nothing against "those types," but for God's sake, stop making fools out of others just so they can feel "equal."

I am truly saddened that such aggression is permitted against intelligent, honest, and above all, polite people... think about that.
That is precisely why I "dropped by"—to clarify the situation and assist those who actually wish to learn.
I am glad you reached out; it isn't mere politeness, but I hope you will reflect on your stance. Believe me, as someone with expertise in certain fields, it only takes a few words for me to gauge a person's knowledge. And these two have none. Neither bans nor deletions will change that fact. I am always prepared to prove my position, but I am more than willing to change it when I encounter genuine intelligence, as smarter people do still exist. Though, it might cost me at least a hundred dollars. But if it leads to reflection, it is worth it.

I'm gone.

Best regards,

Clearly you've got an electrical engineering background or something...
I’m single too, but like I said, I couldn't care less about audio gear. Thank God I didn't fall down that rabbit hole—if I had, my wife probably would've killed me. 😁

But here's some friendly advice: dial it back. 😁
Stop writing these massive essays (anyone who actually knows me will tell you this is hilarious, since I'm notorious for rambling myself 😬).

Look, I'm not calling unknown a professor of audio tech or anything, but he was basically the only guy on this forum for years actually talking about it, and you guys have swarmed him like flies.
Probably for good reason, but reading through a mountain of posts every few hours is exhausting.

Your posts are so long that casual readers can't even bother finishing them.
We just lose interest. It’s not that the content isn't valid—it's actually pretty spot on—but it's just too much.
So, I end up just scrolling past the wall of text and walking away with a totally skewed impression. 😵

Jerry Robinson56 said:You're wrong; all you have to do is take a look at this thread...

I stepped in and solved this guy's trivial issue with a single, straightforward post—no empty philosophical nonsense required—unlike that lackey of yours.

Exactly. You resolved the issue simply, used few words, and clearly demonstrated that you actually know what you're talking about, which the original poster confirmed almost immediately.

You shut your opponent up without resorting to insults.
That proves it can be done. 😁

This is the level of communication I expect from you moving forward: demonstrate your expertise without dedicating every other paragraph to petty insults, and for heaven's sake, stop bringing up the moderator, even if you think you're being helpful.

stormybadger8 said:It is clear you have an electrical engineering background...
I am the same way; however, as I have stated before, audio equipment holds zero interest for me. Thank God I wasn't seduced by that particular addiction—if I had been, things would be problematic, as my wife likely would have killed me. 😁

However, my well-intentioned advice to you is to dial back the intensity. 😁
Do not write such endless manifestos (though those who actually know me will tell you this is quite hilarious, given my reputation for writing long-winded essays). 😬

Look, I do not consider unknown to be an authority on audio engineering, but he was essentially the only person on this forum for years who contributed anything meaningful to the subject, yet you all swarm him like flies on honey...
There is probably a reason for that, but it becomes exhausting to read when a sea of posts appears in just a few hours, each one longer than the last.

The issue is that your posts are so excessively long that casual observers simply cannot be bothered to read them.
We simply lose interest. It isn't that a post like that is inherently foolish—quite the contrary, it presents the facts as they are—
but I end up just scrolling past them, which leaves me with a completely skewed impression of the discussion. 😵

That post was directed at you. I respect everyone here, and one can learn something from anyone; knowledge is not a metric of character.
I have attempted to keep my responses brief, but "they" refuse to understand, insisting instead that they already "know."
That is when the friction begins. I then attempt to point them toward trivial solutions, much like the one above, but they reject them, only to bombard others again with utter nonsense while marveling at their own "brilliant" conclusions. I suppose I am starting to sound like a diary entry now, a phenomenon predicted by someone whose name I shall not mention—not because I cannot, but because there is a price to pay for such disclosures.

Casey Bennett said:exactly. You solved the issue with simplicity; you used few words, and it is blatantly obvious that you understand the subject matter. Which, I might add, the original poster confirmed quite rapidly.

You effectively silenced your opponent without resorting to insults.
That is entirely possible. 😁

I expect this level of communication from you moving forward. Demonstrate your expertise without dedicating every other paragraph to hurling insults. And please, refrain from mentioning the moderator, even if your intentions are good.

wisdom unknown

Just one final suggestion before I depart: bring back Route 66. It truly isn't fair, regardless of whether unknown holds firm in his position.
I haven't been criticizing unknown either—on the contrary, I have praised him, even if I did make his life a bit more interesting 😁 assuming it is true $33 (yoke)

I offer my immeasurable contribution to this PDF (no joke) in the pursuit of justice for Route 66.
Well, there is always the option to have unknown scale things back to 500 if nothing else, since he tends to hand out excessively long penalties...

I am not an advocate for bans, though some opponents are admittedly quite rude
to say nothing short of "vile." Let them go unpunished.

When a new king or queen ascends, there is always a period of amnesty, is there not?

If you believe in my ability to endure, it is far more likely that Route 66 will not be driven to provocation.

Leave the insults out of this. It’s neither classy nor decent. If you want to participate, fine, but if you don't, then stay out of it. I can't force your hand either way—well, I could technically enforce non-participation, but I have no intention of doing so unless you go out of your way to provoke me. 😁

That’s merely a reasonable suggestion, and certainly not an offer one would reject,
here is my contribution

10 "impossible" problems facing forum users in the electronics or electrical engineering fields—let them post, given how Tim Cook assessed that the residents contributed to the discussion
more than fair, considering I am outperforming the gold medalist
programming and topics regarding clock reception, unless there is a connection to transmissions and re-transmissions, are outside my scope... though I would prefer to avoid those as well, since they "come at a cost"
Ideally, however, if someone has a specific vision for their project, I could guide them through a few steps...
and for every definitive solution provided, you pay $33 per piece.
As for this matter, look at how it was resolved; the answer was right under everyone's noses, yet no one thought to grab it. That is precisely what I write about. There is always someone who sees the truth and shouts, "The emperor has no clothes!" The question is simply whether you intend to listen to the one who actually sees it...

Now, I am truly heading off for a week
https://78.media.tumblr.com/81c079bf...myfmo8_250.gif

Paintball is the way to go; one must be prepared for the future
lp

Solutions often emerge through conflict, after which everyone goes out for a drink together, but here it seems others aren't interested in that... I suppose...
There is no need to appraise myself; I am not that significant.

Since this thread is already active, I’ll jump in here rather than starting a whole new topic just to ask for some clarification regarding this ban:

I believe you might have cut off your message there! Please feel free to share your thoughts whenever you're ready. I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say. kaže:
Effective immediately, there is a complete gag order regarding any discussion of the blind ABX. This restriction applies to all related topics and will remain in effect until further notice.

I am certain that in the near future, we will find ourselves once again reading those same old retrospectives about how specific cables make a massive difference in sound quality. When such a post inevitably pops up, what kind of response do we really expect to see from this community? Should we simply ignore it and roll our eyes at what we clearly consider bad advice, or should we join in on the recommendation of those (let's be honest) overpriced cables?

To be honest, I don't see how banning discussions about the very testing methods used by the scientific community actually improves this forum. It doesn't spark better debate, nor does it help us uncover any real truths regarding audio components. Unless the goal is to act as a self-appointed judge or to drive people away from the community, such a rule seems counterproductive. As it stands, this policy only penalizes one side of the argument, effectively handing a victory to those who dismiss anyone advocating for ABX testing as mere trolls.
It is worth noting that there is one specific subject where "objectivists" simply have no standing to weigh in or offer commentary. That particular area remains entirely open to any form of artistic expression one might choose to pursue.

If this whole debate over blind testing actually focused on the subject matter instead of everyone just tearing each other apart and hurling insults, we wouldn't be facing a ban right now.

I’ll grant that the objectivists deserve their own space to talk, just as much as the subjectivists do. As for why a dedicated thread doesn't exist yet—well, only those of you who have been active in those circles would know the answer to that.
There is a "new thread" button on every single subforum. Feel free to click it and start a discussion exclusively for your group, and I will make sure it gets the same peace and quiet that the opposing side enjoys.

Casey Bennett said:If this debate over blind testing actually focused on the subject matter rather than devolving into personal attacks and insults, we wouldn't be facing any bans.

Is breaking down full articles really not enough? And if things turn toxic with insults and fighting, shouldn't there be specific sanctions for that behavior? A moderator's role should be to maintain order and peace, not to ban discussions on a topic—especially one so closely tied to this subforum, given how many articles have been written about it in the American audiophile community.

I agree that those who favor objectivity deserve their own space, just as those who value subjectivity do. As for why a dedicated thread doesn't exist yet, only those of you actively participating in this subforum would truly understand.

It's because most people find that kind of discussion both reductive and pointless. If I want to engage in a real debate—which I believe is the whole point of this forum—I’ll seek out someone with an opposing viewpoint rather than just listening to an echo chamber of people agreeing with me. Wouldn't you agree? 🤔

There is a "New Topic" button on every subforum. You are more than welcome to click it and start a thread exclusively for your group, and I will ensure it remains as peaceful as the threads used by your counterparts.

Why would we need a separate thread? All our topics are right here on this subforum, except for the one single thread where we all agreed to stay silent.

Can you honestly tell me if there’s even one single aspect of the blind test that hasn’t been picked apart a thousand times already? Is this really just one solitary topic we're allowed to obsess over?
The ban stays in effect, though you're more than welcome to start a new thread specifically for discussing the objective crew if that's what you're after.

Besides, this isn't some permanent decree etched in stone; I simply want the heated passions to cool down and for the forum membership to undergo a bit of a vetting process. Until then, go find something else to occupy your time.

The self-proclaimed "objectivists" have their own dedicated thread. It’s just that they find it boring since they can't go in there to troll people or cause trouble.

And honestly, I don't get how this "venting" section—which is already pretty full of misinformation—is allowed to host such blatant insults toward other members.

Plus, having to wade through those nauseatingly self-congratulatory fan posts is just plain exhausting.
They’re out here bragging about helping some guy by suggesting he wrap his HDMI cable in aluminum foil.
But the thing is, that user had already decided to just buy a brand-new cable (and I think a few others here backed him up on that decision).
The new cable works perfectly fine without all that ugly foil wrapped around it.
It’s absolutely ridiculous! 😁
There have always been plenty of genuinely helpful posts here—real advice that actually helped people solve their problems.
That was true long before these "know-it-alls" and the "chosen ones" showed up.

It’s pretty obvious that some people simply aren't going to change their ways.