Stem cell therapy for joints (Lipogems)

Hi everyone,
I was wondering if anyone here has tried Lipogems treatment for worn-down joint cartilage, specifically for knees or hips? It’s been gaining traction here in the US over the last three years, and I’m particularly interested in finding out about experiences in Seattle or Washington, D.C. From what I understand, the process involves harvesting fat from the abdomen—similar to liposuction—then processing those fat-derived stem cells in a lab before injecting them back into the damaged joint. Word is it helps significantly with pain and can gradually regenerate cartilage, even with extensive damage or in older patients. Could this actually delay a total joint replacement by anywhere from a year to a decade? Currently, it seems to be available only through private clinics. Has anyone actually tried this? Did it work for you? Are there any side effects or complications to watch out for? I'm asking for a dear loved one, so I would truly appreciate any specific details you can share. 🙂

Just jumping in here to weigh in. I haven’t tried it myself, but I’m keeping an eye on this therapy for the future. Honestly, right now, the doctors performing these procedures are just getting rich off "sick people." It’s a disgrace that something like this can be so expensive when it doesn't even regenerate the joint for life—maybe you get one, two, or three years out of it? And all that for a single joint, asking for $4167? Hello, private practice doctors—are you actually sane? 🙂 I also don't understand why Medicare hasn't stepped up by providing stem cells and PRP in their hospitals to help patients dealing with arthritis and osteoarthritis. A single PRP device probably costs around $1667, and a stem cell machine might be 2-3 times that, so just imagine how much money these private practitioners are pocketing right now. It’s ridiculous that orthopedists aren't even taught this in med school; it feels like it's just a new thing where you buy a machine, perform the procedure, and shove it into the joint. There seems to be one clinic in Seattle that charges a somewhat reasonable price for two joints, yet the ones in Washington, D.C. are asking almost twice as much as that Seattle clinic. Once again, it’s shameful to take so much money from sick people and lie to the public that stem cells regenerate cartilage when they (constantly) fail to do so. When you show up for a consultation, they tell you "this will last you a few years," and then you're done. To add one more thing: in the US, stem cells are harvested from bone marrow, and those are the real deal. I’ve studied this extensively, which is why I simply cannot comprehend why private doctors are taking such massive amounts of money from the ill.

This really only started gaining traction here in the States about three or four years ago. Since most people go through private providers, only a small group has actually tried it so far. There was even a segment on the news last fall covering it at a clinic in Washington, D.C., like Saint Catherine. The cost usually depends on whether they run an MRI on the joint before the procedure. From what I understand, they don't offer it in Seattle, which makes things a bit more affordable there. I’m curious about how effective this actually is. I've heard conflicting things—that it might do nothing at all, or that it can provide long-term relief. Personally, I think any alternative is better than bone shaving or getting a total joint replacement. You can pull stem cells from blood, but this is the Lipogems system using fat-derived stem cells from abdominal tissue, which is supposedly very effective for joints. I would love to hear from anyone who has actually gone through it firsthand. Thanks for the input, swiftwalker13.

You really need to dig a little deeper into how stem cells actually work. There's a tiny amount in your blood—that’s what PRP is—but you get way more in the operating room using Lipogems, and an even massive amount in the bone marrow. When you harvest from the marrow, that’s where the longevity is. Look, if you have almost no cartilage left and you’re looking at Lipogems, it’s going to be a short-term fix—maybe one to two years. Long-term, none of these three options are a magic bullet. If you are truly "bone on bone," I don't think anything is going to help you much besides temporary relief. But then you're stuck repeating it every few years, which is why I pointed out how insanely expensive this is here in the States and how some private clinics are basically running a racket. I honestly don't get why American hospitals are sitting on their hands instead of incorporating Lipogems into standard osteoarthritis or rheumatoid arthritis treatments, because it actually works. I just read today that Lipogems is now U.S. FDA approved this year. In America, the most common approach is using stem cells from the bone marrow—just look up a company called Regenexx online. With Lipogems, you're looking at anywhere from two to five years of relief depending on the patient. When I look at this, I’m not even thinking about myself; I’m thinking about the logic for people. For instance, if a 50-year-old has to shell out $8333 for Lipogems that only lasts a couple of years, wouldn't it make more sense to just get a new hip that lasts 20 or 30 years rather than paying $8333 every few years, hehe $8333? I mean, seriously, how much does the actual Lipogems equipment even cost?

I’ve studied cases in America where someone was told they absolutely had to have surgery on both knees, but instead, they opted for stem cells from the bone marrow. That person has been pain-free for six years now—skiing, moving around, the whole nine yards. It depends, but in this country, we aren't getting those bone marrow stem cells; they're just pulling them from the surgical suite.

If you go online and read the reviews, you'll see that in the United Kingdom, some hospitals sell Lipogems for both knees for about 4,800 pounds, or roughly $12667 haha. Meanwhile, this guy in Qatar would charge 27,000, as if we were living in Germany or some other wealthy nation. Like I said, right now, private clinics are making as much money as possible off sick people, but that won't last forever once a real cartilage therapy hits the mainstream. It just shows you how little these "private providers" care about the American people; they just squeeze you for all you're worth. I’ve heard plenty of people traveling from outside the US to places like Qatar specifically for Lipogems because it's actually cheaper there than in their home countries.

p.s. The only doctor in Seattle has a decent price—even if it's still a bit steep—but he seems to be the most honest so far. He probably understands the reality of the situation and the state of the healthcare system we live in. Respect to him.

A physiatrist mentioned that injecting micro-fragmented adipose into a damaged joint could actually be dangerous. His argument? Stem cells are "clueless." He claims they don't know what to fix, so while they might target damaged cartilage, they could just as easily start targeting bone, creating osteophytes and causing more harm than good. Have you ever heard of a case like that? Is it even possible for this to happen? If it is, we're looking at a serious side effect. It makes you wonder—how can anyone know who to trust when every specialist seems to have their own conflicting theory?

I honestly don't think it's possible for something like that to happen—I’m pretty much 100% certain it doesn't create osteophytes. Look, I'm no doctor; I'm just a regular guy probably just like you, but I've read enough about this stuff to know I've never seen anything suggesting it causes bone spurs. It's just soft tissue and cartilage within the joint. Honestly, if you have the capital, investing in stem cells is worth it—even if you have to keep doing it for the rest of your life. And hey, it doesn't even have to be stem cells right away; you could start with PRP first. Right now, the price tag is massive, but I truly believe costs will drop as more clinics start offering stem cell treatments. Think about it: twenty years ago, LASIK surgery cost $20k per eye, and today you can find it for maybe $7k at most if you shop around.

filipović handled all that over at Saint Catherine last year, and Primorac was shouting it from the rooftops—so I’m assuming he’s got the inside scoop and actually knows what he’s doing here
He’s out there training right now, acting like everything is just perfect

filipovic has millions of dollars stashed away—he can go get stem cell treatments every six months if he feels like it. Ironically, he ended up tearing a ligament on the exact same leg where he had those stem cells done 🙂

Look, I’m posting this here because this stuff is insanely overpriced for the average American working for, say, $1667 a year. These places are asking $25,000 to $27,000 for just two joints. And how long does that last? A few years? It depends on the guy, I guess, but let’s be real—nobody is seeing results that actually stick for more than five years

Lipogems is now U.S. FDA approved for use in Orthopedics. The proprietary name is applied to a Micro-fragmented Adipose Tissue Transplant System that was The Technology i introduced and monitored in a scientific clinical trial dating Back Three years leading to The publication.

So, what we really need is a meeting with the Secretary of Health—just sit them down, lay out the facts, and convince them to start rolling out Lipogems devices in hospitals. Why should people be forced to drain their savings at private clinics when this could be standard care?

I’m using 830nm wavelength red light therapy—for better or worse—on my meniscus. Ideally, I’d need some kind of scaffold where stem cells could actually regenerate the lesion, but that won't work without surgery to either lift the torn part or stitch it back together. Then again, none of that matters much once you find out you have hip dysplasia and realize what's coming for you.🎉

...depression.

It’s kind of wild, isn't it? Murraya's out here struggling with hip pain and nobody can seem to do anything for him—even with his massive 100 million euro fortune sitting right there! 🤔

When I type "Lipogems" into the PubMed search bar, I get 19 results.
However, if I search for "Lipogems rheumatoid arthritis," nothing comes up at all. ( " We're sorry, but there were no items found for your search.
We couldn't find any items matching the search: "lipogems and rheumatoid arthritis". Please try another search. " )
It’s a pretty interesting discrepancy to me...

I don't necessarily view the FDA as an absolute or infallible authority in every single instance...

Oh, one more thing.
When you Google search Lipogems, you see several pages with a ".eu" extension—basically lipogems.eu... but whenever you click on them, you just get a "page not found" error.
It really makes me wonder why that is...

It might help you with RA, but you’d have to do it for every single joint—so the real question is how much time you're willing to sink into this, especially since we all know how insanely expensive this stuff is.
Basically, after doing a little digging online regarding Lipogems, I've realized these aren't actually stem cells. Real stem cells come from bone marrow, right? So, if you want a real therapy, that's where they should be sourced from.




Here are two solid links where a guy breaks down the difference between fat-derived and bone marrow-derived (stem cell) sources. This "doctor" was actually one of the pioneers who brought regenerative medicine to the States, and he works out of the top clinic in the US, REGENEXX.

I think there's even a clinic in a major US city offering stem cell therapies sourced directly from bone marrow. Everything those high-end places offer—think Mayo Clinic or similar specialty centers—is basically just Lipogems; they claim fat tissue holds 500 times more stem cells than bone marrow does.

Anyway, right now, work is being done on two specific drugs containing stem cells. If these pan out over the next 5 to 10 years, they could become accessible to everyone and won't be prohibitively expensive anymore—because eventually, we could use a single donor to provide standardized stem cells to heal damaged joints for everyone.

Cynata Therapeutics
Progenza | Regeneus Ltd Paradigm Biopharma

As for Paradigm Biopharma, that third option looks like it could be really promising for RA cases—though, to be clear, that one isn't stem cell-based.

All three of these drugs have cleared Phase 1 clinical trials, and they're moving into Phase 2 this year.

Brenda Alvarez24 said:Oh, and one more thing.
When you Google search Lipogems, those sites ending in .eu pop up... you know, like lipogems.eu... but whenever I try to click on them, it just says page not found...
And I can't help but wonder why that is...

I was wondering about that too, I guess....
until it finally clicked that the actual site is lipogems.com 🙄

There's actually a ton of research over there, too. Some pretty solid papers by our own authors have even been published there.
Pro tip: don't go looking for every single headline to scream "Lipogems" at you like a neon sign.

True, but I’m still curious about one thing—why isn't this available to citizens in Europe?

Even so, when you go to PubMed to look for studies, you get 19 results... and that site is pretty much the gold standard for finding scientific research.

I recall reading that it was included in a protocol... I can't quite remember the exact name right now, so please excuse my improvisation... an American association of surgeons (something related to osteoarthritis... maybe orthopedic surgeons?) incorporated it into their therapy.

So, my takeaway is that it's essentially, and obviously, useful for degenerative joint issues like cartilage damage and such.

Now, why wouldn't they put a therapy on the official drug lists if it's simpler, and likely cheaper, than all the other treatments for RA? It's incredibly expensive... though if it does have anti-inflammatory effects... I think I stumbled upon that info somewhere, just not in a formal study. It would probably be more cost-effective than combining all those other medications and therapies.

However, I see there are studies involving its use for facial bone trauma and even bladder issues... it covers a wide range of things. (P.S. I do know the difference between a brand name, a generic name, and the active ingredient!)

I tend to be a skeptic, and while I believe there are benefits, I'm always quite cautious about "miracle cure" claims... I prefer to look for more evidence.

So, while it clearly helps with certain degenerative changes in the joints, there still aren't studies confirming its effectiveness for other inflammatory rheumatic diseases. Plus, it's extremely pricey, and we don't know how long the effects last... some suggest a maximum of two years.

Plus, any article covering a specific topic—even an expert one—is certainly interesting and useful, but until it’s backed by a peer-reviewed scientific study and the medication is fully approved everywhere...

"They haven't added a simpler, likely cheaper therapy for RA to the drug formularies yet."

You want to know why? It's because they aren't entirely certain if injecting this type of therapy—say, into a knee—might trigger the growth of unintended tissues, like tumors. At least, that’s what I gathered from reading the FDA website. But let's be real: their goal isn't necessarily to rush a cheap therapy into hospitals, though they'll eventually have to. The future belongs to stem cells—they're going to regenerate joints, fix organs, and tackle all sorts of other diseases.
To be honest, I haven't seen anything suggesting that Lipogems provides long-term relief specifically for those dealing with RA. With Lipogems, how long does it actually last for people? Maybe 2-3 years, maybe 3-5? And it's incredibly expensive because they have to harvest fat from each individual patient to create a custom batch of tissue-regenerating cells just for them.

Cynata Therapeutics, a firm out of Australia, is kicking off Phase 2 clinical trials this year for their "allogeneic" stem cell approach—using one donor to supply everyone. Once these stem cells become commercialized, they’ll become very affordable. Their first phase was a success, so I don't doubt the second will be too. This is shaping up to be the largest stem cell trial ever conducted globally regarding osteoarthritis.

Then there's Paradigm Biopharma. That company has a product that could hit the market in just a few years; they've already cleared Phase 2 successfully. The protocol involves injections twice a week for six weeks (into the gluteus), and then you're looking at being pain-free for 6, 12, or even 24 months. You won't wear down your cartilage (or at least, very little), the joint inflammation disappears, and the knee pain stops. The clinical trials were focused on knees. It’s not a steroid, it’s not an NSAID, it isn't addictive, and it doesn't have any harmful effects on the body.🙂

There was this 31-year-old guy who was actually a candidate for a partial knee replacement. He had already signed up for the surgery, but instead, he joined this trial. His pain level was a 10/10—he literally couldn't walk. He received the treatment, and today? He's running every single day 12 miles and only feels a little pain once in a while, maybe a 1 or 2.

In case anyone is interested:

sophie7 said:Yeah, I mean, I guess it’s still pretty interesting to me though—it’s just not really meant for folks living over in Europe, I suppose.

So, what exactly led you to that conclusion? I guess maybe it's just because the Lipogems website isn't showing up properly or something?

sophie7 I guess it’s like... someone said:I mean, even now, when you head over to PubMed to dig for some studies, it pulls up like 19 different ones... and that place is pretty much the gold standard for tracking down actual scientific research, I guess.

I mean, looking at it now, I guess those studies cover a bunch of different things—like using it for facial bone trauma and even bladder issues... it’s all pretty varied, I suppose. I mean, I totally get the difference between the brand names and the generics, plus how the actual active ingredients work and all that stuff... I guess.

I’m telling you again, maybe just take a look at the papers on their official website and check out how they actually title those stem cell studies. That's kind of why I mentioned that Lipogems doesn't exactly scream from the headlines—unless you're looking specifically at those 19 papers you found on PubMed. You can still find the rest of the stuff from their site on PubMed too, I guess, it's just that Lipogems shows up in the actual text instead of being right there in the title.
You might actually get the difference between the two, but I don't think you're really catching my drift regarding why I was worried about that low number of studies...

Jan. 15, 2019 The FDA is seeing a massive influx of cell and gene therapy products hitting the early development stages—you can see it in the sharp spike in Investigational New Drug (IND) applications. Looking at this momentum, we expect the number of approved cell and gene therapies to climb steadily over the next few years, which really just reflects the massive scientific leaps and the actual clinical potential these innovations hold.

By 2020, we’re anticipating a flow of more than 200 INDs annually, adding to the 800+ active cell-based or direct gene therapy INDs already sitting on file with the FDA. If you look at the current pipeline and how successful these products have been in clinical trials, our prediction is that by 2025, the FDA will be greenlighting 10 to 20 cell and gene therapy products every single year. Now, since we're operating in a period without a FY19 appropriation for FDA, our main priority has been keeping the most critical parts of our operations running—as much as the law allows, of course. For products under the user fee programs, including these cell and gene therapies, our reviews of applications and the resulting policy work are being sustained by limited carryover user fee balances. We’ll keep the public posted on how we manage our workflow.

I honestly think Lipogems is going to be forgotten soon—replaced by mass-marketed stem cell treatments for all sorts of conditions, including OA and RA.