Politics Moderation - Ukraine topic, moderator Rocky

hiddenrider66 said:Look, I’m just giving my two cents like everyone else here. I’m not out to get anyone, but you guys jumped straight to labeling and attacking me. Why? Is this about me or is it about the moderator Rock?
Seriously, am I even allowed to say what I think here?
Besides me, who else actually supports Ukraine—there are only three of us left on this thread—has said anything at all? Meanwhile, you lot have turned this into a witch hunt against Rock in his own damn house.
Has any other pro-Ukraine person called their conversational partner a petty jerk, a kid, or someone who needs therapy?
Anyway, look, I get it. Truth hurts, and clearly, you guys need a cozy little bubble to talk about your personal biases, which I tend to pop. I'll head over to the Russia thread for a bit so I stay out of your way. LP

Prorus, nationalist, sympathizer, Russophile... are those labels we use for people we're talking to? Or are those the kinds of things that earn you a punch to the face in a real conversation?

And nobody is out to get Rock personally.

I was just laying out the facts. Rock is pretty much the only one who’s been hitting me with infractions constantly over the last month—and that’s specifically on the Ukraine topic, even though I’ve posted twice as much on other threads during that time. My writing style hasn't changed.

I don't have a beef with penalties. When I’ve been arrogant or rude—because, hey, we all lose our cool sometimes—I owned it. I shut up, took the hit, and waited out my suspension without making clones or whining about it. I’m no saint, and I’m not trying to be. My only regret is that I didn't publicly acknowledge the penalties on the PŽK when I agreed with them, or give credit to whoever handed them out (including Rock), or apologize to whoever I snapped at. I don't blame Rock for the times I lost it (I'd have to check my inbox to be sure). When I complain, I say it straight. Again, I have zero issue with Rock's personal views as a forum member.

The whole point of me bringing this up on the PŽK is to make the Ukraine discussion actually useful—fact-based and analytical—rather than letting it be hijacked by a few "human bots" from either side. And that shouldn't happen just because moderators start slashing anyone who technically breaks a rule. Especially when it feels like it's targeting one specific side.

So, can moderation actually lead to a more balanced spread of opinions? Can you really "manage" how people think?

hiddenrider66 said:Look, I’m just offering my take, which is what everyone here is supposed to be doing, I'm not lecturing anyone else, yet you all jumped straight to labeling and attacking me right here. Why? Is this actually about me, or is it about the moderator Rock?
Seriously, am I allowed to have an opinion?
Aside from me, who else among the pro-Ukraine crowd—and there are only three of us left in this thread, mind you—has actually said anything meaningful, while you lot have basically turned this place into a witch hunt against Rock?
Has any other pro-Ukraine user called their interlocutor a moron, a child, or suggested they need psychiatric help?
Anyway, I get it, the truth hurts, and clearly, you guys need a private chat room to vent about your personal biases, which I happen to be disrupting. I'll head over to the Russia thread for a while so I don't clutter up your space. LP
By the way, @Zachary Torres81—if you hadn't been posting those Crimea-Russia photos, the ones you know exactly which ones, I wouldn't have posted those hits either; I only did it as a direct response to your post. A provocation always invites a provocation.

Well, I already told you that that post doesn't bother me, I was simply pointing out the inconsistency in you complaining about Maltese using the forum like a personal blog when you were doing the exact same thing.

Given how Maltese was mentioned in the previous post, bolding it here really doesn't suit you.

More arguments and less emotion makes for a much better discussion.🙂

Again, I have absolutely no desire for you to leave the topic.🙂

Zachary Torres81 said:Let's not turn this whole thread into a contest over who's more pro-Ukraine.

From what I can gather, the whole point of this discussion is for the mods to level the playing field for both sides (some people—myself included, clearly—think they haven't yet), set some clear ground rules on what’s okay and what isn't when we talk about UA, so we can all actually enjoy the chat and keep the debate high-quality.

The bottom line is making this thread better and more factual. We should be presenting facts, debating them, or confirming them, so we can reach conclusions based on reality—whether that happens right now or down the road.

I'm not talking about just spamming piles of misinformation from every direction, or trying to draw random parallels to the war in America just to get people emotionally worked up to cheer for one side or the other.

Props to the moderators (including Rock) for having the patience to deal with this stuff. Honestly, I find myself reacting after just the first few words half the time! And I rarely even bother watching video clips anymore unless there's a warning that things are getting really graphic. I saw way too much back in the early '90s to need a "refresher course."
Seriously though, I’m asking for some balance here.

If things get too much, I'll just step away from the thread on my own.

Let's talk about clones—apparently, there are three of us pro-Ukraine types here: me, Collins, and Practice. Who’s cloning whom? I’m certainly nobody’s clone. If you think Collins and Practice are the same person, you’re getting close to your goal; instead of three of us, there are only two. I’ll just leave, and you can have your Collins-Practice duo to yourselves. It should be easy enough since he’s supposedly "cheap." Even if you manage to drive Rock away, won't things get a bit boring?
Blog—I’ve never allowed more than four posts per page, especially without links, because if I don't let people actually talk, it's just a blog. This is a forum.
I’ve never felt the need to say I don't care about someone's opinion or that someone is being annoying. Again, this is a forum, and aside from the moderators, we all have the same rights. If someone really gets on my nerves, I just use the ignore button. We aren't in kindergarten; there's no need for shouting matches. (And that doesn't include trying to hijack the forum by dropping 30 posts in a single day on the Ukraine thread without any links—that's blatant trolling).
Labeling an interlocutor is the absolute bottom of the barrel for me. People only do that when they're weak—when they can no longer offer a decent, human rebuttal, so they resort to calling things "stupid" or telling someone they "need a doctor" or a psychiatrist...
If we’re laughing at Psaki, I guess everyone else is fair game, right? Putin isn't an exception either.
Shall we move on?

hiddenrider66 said:Let’s talk about clones—you’re claiming there are three of us pro-Ukraine types, then you bring up me, Collins, and Practice. Who’s cloning who here? I’m definitely nobody’s clone. If you think Collins and Practice are the same person, you’re getting pretty close to the truth—it’s not three of us, it’s two. Fine, I’ll head out and leave you guys with the "Collins-Practice duo." You’ll have an easy time together since he’s supposedly "cheapskate." But hey, if you actually manage to drive Rock away, won't things get a little boring?
this is a blog—I never allowed more than four posts per page, and that’s without any links, because if I don't let people talk, it’s just a blog. This? This is a forum.
I’ve never claimed I don't care what someone thinks, and I've never said someone is being annoying—look, this is a forum, and besides the mods, we all have the same rights. If someone really gets on my nerves, I just use the ignore button. We aren't in kindergarten; I'm not going to start screaming. (That doesn't include trying to hijack the forum by dropping 30 posts in one day on the Ukraine thread without even using links—that’s straight-up trolling).
Labeling your opponent is rock bottom for me. People only do that when they’re weak—when they can't argue logically anymore, so they resort to calling things "stupid" or telling someone to "see a doctor" or saying they need a psychiatrist...
If we're laughing at Psaki, everyone else is fair game too, right? Putin isn't some special exception, is he?
Shall we move on?

Look, I’m done with the whole "who’s a clone" debate, whether it’s on this thread or anywhere else. I actually have the technical know-how to wipe out at least 90% of internet accounts anywhere as a "clone," but I’ve explicitly said I don't care about that. I care about the impact. If a person wants to say something, let them speak. If the mods want to hide behind their procedures, fine, whatever.

But if some "clone" keeps shoving a picture of some drunk, radical lunatic wearing M53 camo (America style) in my face, claiming it proves Eastern Ukrainian rebels are linked to those radicals—and basically implying *I* support them—well, that’s where I draw the line. That’s when the adrenaline starts kicking in.

And when people keep repeating that "different nicknames" nonsense on the same thread over and over? Yeah, then it's goodbye. We can find other ways to deal with that.

The moderation on this Ukraine thread is clearly leaning towards the Prorus side. Period. I don't need anyone here to try and prove to me that the USA is some "terrorist state" that does nothing but squeeze money out of everyone and steal from "around the world." Because, of course, pro-Putin Russia is just this bastion of democracy and the only "power" capable of resisting American "aggression"... I've traveled the whole world and lived in some of those places mentioned above, so I can form my own damn opinions...
When people on other forums cite advance.hr or RT and stuff like that, it’s less about trolling and more about straight-up propaganda.
Calling the democratically elected leadership of Ukraine "hunts," "Nazis," or "US lapdogs" is way beyond mere trolling.
Claiming that the strategic goal of the US back in the 90s—joining NATO alliances—was just "sucking up" or our military acting like "lapdogs" is a massive lie and a total distortion of both the truth and history.
In my view, anyone who considers the US military to be "lapdogs" (I'd love for these same posters to say that to the faces of my buddies who served multiple tours in Afghanistan), or calls the strategic goals of the 90s era "sucking up," is either a deep-state plant, a bigoted nationalist, or just someone with a completely warped perspective on the matter.
That's all I have to say (for now) regarding this Ukraine thread. I stand with my colleagues who are on the side of freedom and democracy (hiddenrider66, M.C., and the rest), as well as moderators Rock and Bubimir.
As for the pro-Putin Russian and anti-USA posters and mods, I didn't expect anything better than them spamming the thread with RT links and advance.hr bullshit.
Thanks. Especially to those supporting a free and independent US and Ukraine. As for the rest of you: losers have every right to complain, no matter how much that dream (a pro-Russian Ukraine or US) stays far away from reality.
It's honestly unbelievable to me that some "patriots" on this forum support another Putin (who, if it were up to him, would wipe the US off the map)... damn, I guess we always had traitors among us, even back in the day, so why wouldn't we see them now during this Russian aggression against a sovereign nation like Ukraine...

goldenowl73 said:just look at this thread. You’ve basically chased away every living soul with your constant, aggressive outbursts. Honestly, if Cuka and I weren't here trying to keep things somewhat stable, nobody would be left except for a handful of you regulars—who, let's be real, just want to keep that specific, narrow-minded viewpoint alive over there. Because once you corner someone in an argument, there’s no way they’re sticking around for more than a couple of days. It’ll just be the ten of you left, stroking each other's egos and mocking every link anyone tries to post. And then, when the true devotees of the Russian President return—ready to post a photo of a single bolt on a tank engine as if it were some peak achievement of human civilization—maybe then you'll finally have the thread exactly the way you want it.

Oh, honey, you "stabilized" it, did you?

Why don't you just leave us alone and go "stabilize" something back at your own house...

Since you're such a genius, Einstein, tell me this: why is it that all the complaints about how the Politics sub is being moderated always seem to find their way to your doorstep?

What is it this time—global conspiracies, the Masons, or butterfly sightings?☕

goldenowl73 said:Look, we have visibility into your IP addresses. Believe me, if I suspect someone is running a clone account, I check their IP. I sniff them out, cross-reference IPs, and run clone trackers... and right at the top of this thread, it’s clearly stated in **bold and underlined**: "We will no longer warn you about this, nor will we warn you about tagging other users" especially regarding mutual accusations of trolling.
" This is now the seventh thread about Ukraine where we keep pinning the exact same post—a post you all CONSTANTLY ignore. A million warnings, pleas, and strikes. Yet, the same people CONTINUE to do the exact same things.

The persistent, almost daily refrain from you active posters is "stop trolling," or "look how they're trolling," etc. Even here, in this specific thread, you couldn't help yourselves from falling into that pattern.

It’s no surprise they keep doing it—the moderation team simply hasn't been able to put an end to the pro-American spammers (that so-called 'Buzin Brigade' that diligently pollutes this entire forum with absolute garbage) who consistently insult the intelligence of anyone actually trying to think. Furthermore, the mods haven't been able to facilitate actual discussion from the start; people who are genuinely interested in the subject and actually know what they're talking about have given up because it’s impossible to cut through the endless mountain of junk being posted—junk that often has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Right from the very first installment, users were acting in good faith, warning about the exact same issues that Jack Cook7 and the rest of those interested in raising the standard of discourse are pointing out again now.
When you're dealing with bots that relentlessly pump out propaganda for idiots—content that lacks even a shred of common sense—communication becomes impossible. It’s honestly baffling to me that posts like that are still allowed to pass through on the politics section to this day.
The exact same thing is happening elsewhere in the politics section, where a diligent group continues to clutter everything with that old regionalist rhetoric, acting like there isn't a tomorrow.

The moderation team failed miserably in their duties regarding the Ukraine crisis thread, proving that some of you are simply not up to the task you've been assigned.

I'm with the complaints. The moderation here feels biased.
Just tell Rock: "Rock, you aren't cut out for moderating, go find something else to do."

My post got nuked last night.
It was actually a response to this one:

Charles Sanders35 said:I can't imagine the New York Times, CNN, or BBC being part of it. Isn't that just your usual anti-American propaganda, or have you guys lost your minds?
The people who love little icons and the old American era don't agree with the pro-Yugo crowd at the NYT. Is that another mystery for us to solve??

It went something along these lines:

Why on earth would you think fans of Tyrion Lannister are supporters of America?🤷

I’m paraphrasing here, but that was essentially the gist of my message.

I’ll be the first to admit that my post wasn't really about Ukraine; I mostly wrote it just to see if the mods would jump in, and to ask the author which "little guy" he was actually referring to😁.
Because let’s be honest, right now, Tyrion from Game of Thrones is arguably the most famous little man on the planet.
Even Putin doesn't hold a candle to him.🙂

In my opinion, the post I was replying to is just as relevant to the topic as mine was. It was framed as a rhetorical question, giving the author a perfect opening to label anyone who disagrees with him as a nostalgic relic, an anti-American, or a fan of the little guy.
Total flamebait.

What I really want to know is what the moderators have to say about this.
What are the actual criteria here, and why was my post deleted while the one I responded to remains untouched?

Thanks a lot.

PS: I'm not claiming Rock deleted it. I have no idea who did.
I'm more interested in how the rules for this thread are being established and getting an explanation for why his post stays up while mine gets tossed.

Regarding the whole issue of deleted posts, about twenty days back I had one scrubbed from existence, and I asked (okay, maybe with a touch too much sarcasm🙂) on this subforum what the hell the reasoning was behind it.

The post came right after the Ukrainian and Syrian elections, and it went something like this:

I’m going to say a few words about Syria, so apologies in advance for veering off-topic.

During an unannounced trip to Beirut, John Kerry called upon all supporters of the Assad regime—specifically Iran, Russia, and Hezbollah—to step up and help end the war in Syria.

He also weighed in on the Syrian elections, essentially saying that Tuesday's vote was "nothing more than a total zero" and "remains insignificant."
Just the day before, Kerry remarked that "these elections are non-elections; they are a complete wash."

He argued the voting was "meaningless because you can't hold an election when millions of your people don't even have the chance to cast a ballot."

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Leb...#axzz306zjTknm

Apologies once again for the heavy off-topic detour.

I started off being a bit cheeky with the off-topic angle because, at the time, the thread about Ukraine was absolutely swarming with off-topic chatter, and my post served as a perfect little demonstration of the hypocrisy inherent in US foreign policy—where one election is hailed as a democratic triumph while another is dismissed as a farce. The reality on the ground in both nations was remarkably similar, as were Kerry's shifting standards for what constitutes a "significant" vote.
In my book, it was clearly relevant to the discussion.

That deletion actually stung a bit, mostly because I put in the effort to carefully translate Kerry's specific phrasing just so those few folks here who aren't fluent in English could actually appreciate the nuance of his words.

But hey, water under the bridge.🙂

Jack Cook7 said:Prorus, a nationalist, a sympathizer... are those just labels used to describe an interlocutor? Or are they labels meant to justify getting punched in the face during a debate?

And nobody is out to get Rock personally.

I simply presented the facts. In reality, Rock is the only one who has consistently handed me infractions over the last month, and that’s specifically regarding the Ukraine thread, even though I’ve posted at least twice as much on other topics during this period, and I certainly haven't changed my writing style.

I don't have any issue with penalties. When I’ve been arrogant or rude—because everyone loses their cool sometimes—I deserved it. I shut up, stayed quiet for a few months if necessary, and waited for the penalty to expire without using clones or filing appeals. I’m no saint, nor do I claim to be. My only regret is that whenever I disagreed with a penalty, I didn't publicly state it here on the PŽK, acknowledging whoever penalized me (including Rock) and apologizing to anyone I snapped at. I'm not complaining about Rock when I've lost my temper (I'd have to check my inbox to be sure). When I do complain, I make it clear. To reiterate, my issue isn't with Rock's personal views as a forum member.

The goal of these appeals on the PŽK is to make the Ukraine discussion higher quality—more factual and analytical—rather than letting it be hijacked by a few "human bots" from either side. This shouldn't be achieved by moderators cutting down anyone who makes a minor technical error. Especially when it feels like it's targeting one specific side.

So, can moderation actually achieve a more balanced distribution of opinions among participants? Can you truly manage the collective opinion of the people discussing?

You aren't alone.
Honestly, the sheer level of bias here has made reading and commenting feel exhausting.
Back when I received an official response to an appeal claiming I was constantly trolling and that my writing style was incomprehensible, I actually had to go to therapy because I couldn't stop laughing.
While certain individuals engage in massive trolling using terms like "nationalist," "thug," or "lunatic," others get slapped with warnings just for failing to include a description next to a link about Obama's gym routine.🤣
It gets even better when I remember my first interaction with this particular moderator, who classified the word "wimp" as hate speech.
As for the reporting system and the failure to follow through on reports, I don't even want to get into it.
If anyone actually wanted to remove Rock from the moderation team, they would have done it a hundred times by now. The evidence is scattered all over the Ukraine threads.

So, there it is.

Alright, let me throw my two cents into this mess.

I've been hanging out on forums for years, but seriously, Rock is hands down the absolute worst, most biased, and most obnoxious moderator I’ve ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

I am 100% with everyone calling for him to be suspended and stripped of his mod powers immediately.

It looks like Konev is pretty much banned for good. Can you believe the nerve? He actually got flagged by the mods just for talking about Russia on a thread specifically about Russia.

What, should he have been posting about Singapore or Paraguay instead? Makes zero sense.

Most of us actually enjoyed his posts because they were genuinely interesting, and the crap Rock was throwing at him didn't make any damn sense.

I'm calling for them to bring Konev back and get the moderators to stop harassing him.

Charles Fox10 said:Just speaking in general terms for now—you'll get specific answers to those questions later.

Look, you’re free to think someone is a clone if you want, but we can't just act on hunches. We need actual proof before we jump in. Having an alt account isn't against the rules, but using one to bypass a ban while your main account is locked? That’s where we step in to investigate.
The mod being mentioned isn't the only one running this thread, he's just more obvious because he actually posts more than the rest of us.

And honestly, you aren't doing much better than Rock.

It's just like what hiddenrider66 did—if I remember that being their handle—they slapped me with a suspension for "hate speech" just because I was getting heated talking about the Ottoman Empire. No joke.
Believe it or not.

The moderation here is a total disaster. You guys basically kill any real discussion on this forum.

But hey, Rock is apparently untouchable.

Gonna jump in here too. I’m with most of you—mods really need to be neutral.
Rock is anything but. Dude is biased as hell, and honestly, I have no clue who even gave him the keys to the place. It feels like he just hands out bans to anyone with views that don't line up with his own.

If it were up to me, they'd strip his mod status right now and give it to someone else...

It looks like my post got nuked again. It went something like this:

Here’s a cartoon dealing with Georgia, though honestly, it feels incredibly relevant to what we're seeing right now:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...0&d=1403530472

😁😁😁

Again, I'm just paraphrasing here, but that was the general vibe of the thing.

Just look at the image and you'll see the parallels to the current situation.
At least according to some of the theories floating around here—that the USA is pulling the strings in Ukraine just to poke the bear and provoke Russia.
With that cartoon, I was basically trying to say:
Trying to goad Russia by acting under the patronage of the USA has already backfired on certain people, and it’s highly likely we’ll see the exact same pattern play out in Ukraine.
And once the dust settles, the USA will just casually stroll away like nothing ever happened.

Besides, a good cartoon is a perfectly legitimate way to present a thesis or an opinion; if it hits the mark, it’s often much more punchy than a massive wall of text.

I don't quite get why this post was wiped too?🤷

Look, I'm not saying it didn't deserve the boot—maybe I'm tripping over some rules I'm not fully aware of—but I’d appreciate some clarity on why deleting it is actually justified.

Thanks.

William Bennett53 said:Ringo and everyone else, this isn't some street brawl where you can just swing at whoever you want.
I’m asking everyone to please stick to the topic and back up your claims with actual evidence (links). We can't move forward if we don't follow these rules.

Which claims specifically?
What kind of proof am I supposed to provide that I haven't already laid out?
Even better, how am I meant to prove that I've reported trolling and offensive posts, only to have the moderator ignore them, while Chuck would have been handing out warnings the very next day? Meanwhile, Rocky has been busy handing out penalties to anyone who disagrees with him.
I honestly don't understand how you all can act like everything is fine when so many people are complaining.
Besides, as far as I know, the moderators here aren't getting paid, so I'm not sure why there is such an intense push to "prove" things that are clearly visible.
Just lock the thread with a note saying you have no intention of changing Rocky or holding him accountable, and let's call it a day. Let's stop kidding ourselves.

Seven years on this forum and you're still bickering over moderator warnings? :facepam:
Just so we're clear, your strike has been wiped, so try not to focus exclusively on the times things didn't go your way.

Besides, my role here is to moderate the hobbyist section, not politics. I don't involve myself in other people's grievances; my only goal is to maintain order here. Others handle those discussions. And that is precisely what they are doing. 😉

The proof is in the link. If there truly were a discrepancy in how criteria are applied, then the evidence would consist of links showing similar situations being treated differently.