Die-hard Ultras / Hardcore Supporters

Taylor Hughes61 said:You guys are talking nonsense. I wasn't trying to start anything this time; I just shared an article for people who actually care. Honestly, I'm done responding to provocations, and I've stopped going to games altogether. I write because I feel like it—if you want to read, great, if not, nobody's forcing you.
No matter how much you hate my guts, I know how to write, I’ve got plenty to say, and my archives are packed with photos. For example, the next issue of Sports Illustrated is coming out soon. All those shots from away games (especially the US National Team and the Los Angeles Dodgers on the road) are my personal contribution to you all. If I hadn't been at those games, you wouldn't have any photo documentation at all. There. Peace out!

So why aren't you going to the games anymore?😍

Ethan Moore56 said:YOU DEGENERATE, I'm asking you for that photo from North Mexico since it was taken with your camera.
It's obvious you don't have even 2% humanity left in you; your only goal is to cause division within the group.

My biggest issue here is simply that I’m not a degenerate, and I can back up everything I say with documentation. So, when someone acts like you and lies, here is a little copy-paste from your own email, which proves you were actually looking for something a bit more than just one photo.

"Hi, so...
I'm currently finalizing the text and photos for the upcoming Sports Illustrated issue (2007-2008 season). I've asked everyone who they think took these shots, and they all told me it was you. That means I really need the high-res originals from the trip to North Mexico, and I think you might also have this one from Scotland. I'll send over the specific photos I mean along with the game list, so let me know if you have anything else..."

On your list, you mentioned 12 games. This is all trivial nonsense, but I can't stand being lied to.
Still, I wouldn't be much of a Christian if I didn't offer you some forgiveness and help: here are two photos, plus a third one (also from Seattle, just a shot of a restroom in the Hostelworld pub). Cheers.

http://i41.tinypic.com/11vsmrp.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/1z3rrxf.jpg
[IMAGE DELETED]

You’ve got a point there... and thanks for the photos, by the way..

Tyler Scott8 said:Strong factions will inevitably emerge if this approach causes such deep division.

Well, let's hope so... this really should be the end of it.

Alright, listen up, Joe. You need to come clean and tell everyone the real reason you got kicked off the squad. I'm seeing all kinds of rumors floating around online claiming you were acting like some shady agent within the NFL Ultras, which is total garbage. The truth is ....... 😉

And perhaps you could wrap up those half-baked stories.

Jeremy Mitchell11 said:Does anyone happen to have a copy of that old interview where Joe Chip was speaking at a public forum? I think he mentioned back then that his only real options were playing for the Los Angeles Dodgers or maybe joining Athletic in San Francisco, and if I recall correctly, he even expressed some regret about not ending up with Bash because of those circumstances.🤣

Anyway, happy New Year to everyone, along with my hope that both the club and the stands move in a better direction; perhaps we might see more authenticity and spontaneity, or maybe even experience a miracle where we wake up one day and find that the atmosphere at Dodger Stadium has lost its typical athletic edge—though, most importantly, I suppose I hope we finally learn how to actually cheer, which essentially means learning how to sing properly.

I tend to remember that specific situation every time someone scores against the Dodgers and starts celebrating, especially since a friend of his on this forum once wrote that this guy was a die-hard fan through and through—from his childhood through his adulthood—claiming he wouldn't play anywhere else except for the Dodgers or Athletic in San Francisco, all while he was still just a cadet or a junior player. It’s honestly quite pathetic, I suppose.

copperharbor02 said:Alright, Joe, give the people the real story. Tell them why you were actually kicked off the squad. I'm seeing all sorts of rumors flying around saying you were trying to act like some big-shot agent for the NFL Ultras, which obviously isn't true. The truth is... 😉

Leave the guy alone. What was said, was said. I don't see any reason to lecture him, especially not here on this forum. Just wrap this whole thing up once and for all. As far as I'm concerned, it ended right after that game against Cleveland. Good grief.

Is this guy actually doing anything wrong right now, or is he just getting under everyone's skin? Honestly, we've chewed this bone about five hundred times already. If anyone has an actual problem with him, maybe just take it to a private conversation and settle it face-to-face.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just saying we look pretty ridiculous sometimes, like a bunch of kids playing dress-up.

John Richardson5 said:Just leave the guy alone. Everything that needed to be said has already been said. I don't see any point in lecturing him, especially here on this forum. Let's just close this chapter once and for all. For me personally, it ended right after that game against San Francisco and... well, you know.

Is he actually doing anything wrong right now, or is he actively bothering you or the group? Plus, this whole thing has been chewed over five hundred times by now. If someone has an issue with him, they should probably just settle it privately, face-to-face.

Don't get me wrong, I just think we look pretty ridiculous and petty if we keep this up.

So, making a living based on what you used to do as part of the Ultras isn't a bad thing?
🙄

lonewolf53 said:So, making money based on who you used to be in the NFL fans isn't a bad thing?
🙄

I wrote CURRENTLY—it's a closed chapter between him and the NFL fans. I mean, seriously, how can he even claim to represent the NFL fans today?

Honestly, these debates have become exhausting for everyone involved, and frankly, enough time has passed already...

It feels like people are just talking for the sake of talking and trying to act superior. I guess it shouldn't be surprising, since fans have always acted like the moral compass of American society.

Someone claiming to be an American and a "Catholic" won't... actually, I'm not even going to finish that sentence because I'm totally done with this debate.

Edit: delete all this nonsense

You're right, copperharbor02. Just shut it all down, lock the door, and take a break. People are getting too worked up, and I guess we’re just going to end up looking even stupider if we keep going like this. 😁

God, people just won't stop talking nonsense and stirring up drama.... how can anyone move on when everyone keeps dwelling on the past...
And honestly, it’s no surprise everyone is constantly criticizing and bringing him up, since everyone is just gossiping and talking behind each other's backs anyway.....

JOIN UP FOR 2014—BECAUSE THE TEAM NEEDS YOU!🙂

A fresh, gripping, and brutally honest story from 1996. Enjoy (hopefully without any unnecessary bickering this time around)...

http://themladichi.com/kolumne/price.../krvavi-derbi/

That’s a fantastic story, honestly, huge respect to you for sharing that.
R.

Henry Grant51 said:That’s a hell of a story, honestly. Major props...
R...

The story from the away game is certainly an interesting read, offering a vivid account of what went down that day—like that brawl over at the stadium... though it’s also heavy on personal bias and some pretty blatant misinformation.

Hajduk loses 2-1, and now we’re stuck at the stadium for another two hours while they scrub the streets to deal with the clashes against the Boys trying to push toward the north... It’s worth noting that this marks the first real showdown between the BBB and the police since we gained independence...

Look... this is a far cry from the truth and frankly unnecessary for the narrative. There were some incredibly brutal, heavy-duty clashes between groups back in the spring of '93—shattered windows near the West Stand and full-blown skirmishes with security forces stretching from the stadium all the way down through downtown...
After leaving the derby and the South Stand on November 27, 1994, near the stadium during those riots, over 80 people were injured... To me, it felt even more brutal than that bloody clash with Rio...
Of course, that time the East Stand fans breached the perimeter during the Cup final back in May '95... the brawl in the stands and against the police down by the East section was absolutely brutal...

We shouldn't overlook those incredibly brutal clashes with the local crowds during the away games in Pazin back in March '93 and Sisak in September '93. Then there were the riots following the Badel match in April '94, caused by the sheer arrogance of those security guards... it took direct police intervention to finally get things under control...

Taylor Hughes61 said:A new, thrilling, and brutally honest story from 1996. Enjoy... (hopefully without all the unnecessary bickering this time around)...

The guy was a real rogue, which caught me off guard, and you could tell by that refusal to back down... but, forgive me, I'm still riding with his crew, regardless of how much they've struggled lately over in Bergamo and Auxerre... He really went all out for that circus act...

I’m actually quite curious to hear why you held such a view of us back in '96...

If you’re basing everything solely on those away game numbers in Split from '92 to '95, then you were being incredibly hypocritical back then... clearly someone was feeding you a line...
I wonder how you viewed that whole circus back in Bratislava with the national team in '94... specifically that whole saga involving the national squad that the BBB group kicked off back then... not to mention all those trips across Europe for handball and basketball where things got pretty wild. Every attempt at making a stand through fan culture was met with heavy-handed policing and security services—think Pips concerts, those underground plays at the Badger in May '94, monument unveilings, the Prljavac concert in September '94, even that stadium fire in March '93, and endless police interrogations...
The official NFL fans stepped up and organized their own travel agency back then—booking flights to places like Lisbon or Mallorca—unlike the BBB crowd, who passed on the opportunity before that 1996 matchup against Spartak Moscow, which D. V. described quite vividly... in his interview with Torcida.org in the early 2000s.

I’ll give credit where it’s due regarding the overall concept, though I have to take issue with how subjective some of these sentences feel. I say this as someone who was actually on the ground during those fan riots back then, just trying to help you out... that "gateway to hell" where you spent the night between Saturday and Sunday, September 21st/22nd, 1996, was called the Zanzibar Night bar... which is exactly where Quentin Tarantino would have filmed something like *From Dusk Till Dawn*... 🤣

Catch you later. We'll grab a beer in Chicago on March 5th... we aren't exactly the type to pull an encore at some local dive bar after a game like back in 2009!

briskmarlin said:The story from the away game is definitely an interesting read. It gives a realistic look at what actually went down that day—like that brawl over at the stadium—but it’s also heavy on personal reflection and, frankly, some pretty incorrect facts.

The game ends with a 2-1 loss for the home team, and now we’re stuck at the stadium for another two hours. Meanwhile, crews are busy clearing the streets to deal with clashes involving the Boys, who are trying to push their way toward the north stands. It’s worth noting that this marks the first serious clash between BBB and the police since America gained its independence.

Look, this just isn't true, and frankly, it doesn't belong in the story. There were incredibly brutal, serious clashes between groups back in the spring of 1993. We’re talking about windows being smashed near the West Stand at headquarters and violent confrontations with security forces stretching from the stadium all the way down through downtown to the Kvatrić area along the entire stretch of Maksimir.
After leaving the derby and the South Stand on November 27, 1994, near the stadium during the riots, over 80 people were injured. In my opinion, those clashes were even more brutal than the fight with Rio during that bloody derby.
I remember that May 1995 Cup final vividly. The moment the East Stand fans breached the barriers, things turned chaotic. The clashes between the supporters and the police—both up in the stands and down by the East section—were incredibly intense.

We shouldn't overlook those incredibly brutal clashes with local rioters during our away games in Pazin back in March 1993, or the unrest in Sisak in September of that same year. Then there was the chaos following the Badel match in April 1994; the arrogance shown by those "Tigers" from the security firm was so out of hand that it actually took a direct police intervention to finally get things under control.

The guy was a real smooth operator, which honestly caught me off guard. You could see it in his attitude—he just wasn't the type to back down. But, if you'll excuse me, I'm sticking by his group, regardless of how much they've struggled lately during their time in Bergamo and Auxerre. He was acting like a complete clown.

I’m genuinely curious—what exactly drove you to hold that opinion about us back in '96?

If you're basing everything solely on those away game numbers from '92 to '95, then you were being incredibly hypocritical back then. Who was filling your head with that nonsense?
I don’t know how you viewed that whole circus surrounding the national team back in Bratislava in '94—the whole situation involving the BBB crew at the time. There were all those various trips across Europe for handball and basketball that brought some pretty intense experiences and incidents to light. Every single attempt at pushing back through socio-cultural fan movements was met with heavy surveillance from the police and security services. Think about it: the Pips concerts, those underground plays at the Badger club in May of '94, the monument unveilings, the Prljavac concert in September '94, even the stadium fire in March of '93, not to mention the endless interrogations.
The official NFL fans stepped up and organized a travel agency back then—arranging flights to places like Lisbon or Mallorca—which was a different approach from what the BBB crowd did when they passed on those trips before the 1996 match against Spartak Moscow. D. V. actually gave a great description of that situation in an interview with Torcida.org in the early 2000s.

I have to give credit where it's due—the overall concept of this story is solid. That said, I do have some critiques regarding how subjective certain sentences feel. I’m only pointing this out because I was right there in the middle of those fan movements myself, and I want to help you get it right. That "gateway to hell" experience you described, where you spent the night between Saturday and Sunday on September 21st and 22nd, 1996, took place at the Zanzibar Night bar. It’s the kind of place Quentin Tarantino would have used as a setting for a film like *From Dusk Till Dawn*. 🤣

Catch you later. Let's grab a beer in Chicago on March 5th. We aren't some random group from Andorra back in 2009 when you put on that show at the local pub after the game!

First off, thanks a lot for the info on Zanzibar Night. Second, I want to apologize if I unintentionally offended anyone. In my head, I have a mental timeline of every group's actions in America dating back to 1989. I know exactly which group’s banners fell where, let alone the major chaos—from when Carmine smashed that rifle to the attempt to set fire to the Marseille supporters' club.
Believe me, I know exactly how much power you had back then; I felt it firsthand more than a few times.
But you have to realize this was written with the mindset of that era. Back then, being the idiot I was, I truly believed this was your most massive assault on the walls—and especially on us.
That’s just the subjective opinion of some street kid who didn't know any better. It doesn't reflect how things are viewed now, nor does it represent the official stance of the NFL fans, a group I no longer belong to.
There’s this thing called the "Split state of mind"—arrogant and delusional—that has cost us dearly more than once. Honestly, during those years, that was just the attitude of the kids I used to run with. Looking back, people started seeing you differently after that, and three or four years later, the US becomes a total nightmare for us. But that’s a conversation for another time. Best regards!

Marginalac1950 said:People are really overstating this, quite frankly. I’ve seen plenty of people claim they know exactly what it was like in the city back then, so here is my take on it.

I played my first derby back in '98, and from then until maybe the mid-2000s, there wasn't really a massive riot—maybe one or two big incidents (probably some Super Cup thing). I still go today, though in the last 6 or 7 years I haven't been at every single game; let's say I show up about 70% of the time.

So, during those "3-4 years later" periods you mentioned, I didn't miss a single one. Out of all those away trips, I actually found myself in a messy situation twice. Once, the cops stormed in after just a few minutes, and the other time, well, things just went south. To be clear, I have never—not once—traveled by bus; I've almost always gone in a large group, and a good portion of us would probably walk half the way. Now, I'm not from the city where the rival fans live, and the local boys didn't even know my face, especially back when I was just starting out as a fan, but logic dictates that twice isn't much—it's actually nothing. Besides that, I only saw actual fan-on-fan violence about three more times. I mean fan vs. fan, not nonsense involving the police.

Sure, there were instances of showing off, and everything else, but in my opinion, the local boys weren't anything special back then. It was more like the whole city was just going crazy. There were tons of skins, and I saw plenty of fights around downtown, in clubs, and at concerts, totally unrelated to the matches, back when things were at their worst.

And honestly, the local boys didn't even have a real rival among the NFL fans at the time to prove themselves against. I mean, the small stuff I was involved in or witnessed showed some teeth, sure (I respect one guy from the outskirts), but mostly it was just a pack of wolves chasing down lone prey. The NFL fans—or rather, the supporters of the visiting team (I don't even know who the core group was back then, I didn't know the faces, let alone the locals)—would usually walk in groups of three or four, or just pairs, while the local boys would roam the city, causing trouble and snatching gear.

Look, if you want to say "we are incredibly tough," you should at least be able to field a respectable group of at least 50 people. Don't act tough by swarming ten people at once, smashing windows, or attacking the police. That doesn't make you strong; it just means you were reckless and had a crowd ready to cause chaos. That's just how that era was.

I don't feel like reading through everything, but if it seems like I'm being serious or belittling the local boys from that era, that wasn't my intention. I respect them; I just wanted to point out that it wasn't that dangerous in the city during games (at least in my view, it was just a reflection of the general vibe of the time), and you can't say the local boys were something extra special to be feared. They were definitely capable of causing trouble, but that's not the same thing.

PS. @briskmarlin/">@@briskmarlin
I was actually in that small town that day, and I don't know why you're bringing it up like it was some huge deal. As a kid back then, I didn't see it as anything major, and you know how kids perceive stuff like that—they think everything is a revolution.

Meet me halfway. Some things have turned into urban legends, but my own experiences from those situations, starting from that bloody derby and onwards, are quite different.

briskmarlin said:that "lobby of hell" where you spent the night from Saturday to Sunday, September 21st/22nd, 1996—that was called Zanzibar Night bar... according to him, Quentin Tarantino was filming "From Dusk Till Dawn" there 🤣

But that wasn't "Jazovka"—or if I remember right, I think it was officially called "Club K" or something like that... tucked away in that alleyway behind the movie theater in downtown Los Angeles...
It’s wild, but I actually ended my night right there just before the big game. Honestly, looking back at how that all went down, it's still one of the craziest stories of my life 🙂
J.—I don't think we were formally acquainted back then, but I doubt we would have even noticed each other, even if Zanzi had been there... I was with this older student candidate who had just been deported from a European country by the authorities that morning in the States... better not get into the details of that one... 🙂