Blue Paw Association PDF Rules

Matthew Fox4, once again, the obvious questions are being dodged!

I think everyone on this Forum would be perfectly happy if the moderators actually deigned to address the inquiries, the confusion, the shutting down of informational threads, and the closing of topics without any explanation within the Announcements, suggestions, ideas, actions... thread. Because we're reading:

rustydrifter10 said:There should be a brief note explaining why a thread was locked,

and so on... and their responses shouldn't be so condescending and framed either.

Matthew Fox4, our PP was very polite and asked direct questions. If we want advice, we’ll ask for it. We aren't asking for advice right now; we're asking for answers.

Lisa Young83 said:Moderators report their absence from moderation duties in the designated area to those who need to know.

Nobody is demanding that the moderators justify their absence; we just need the users to know who they can actually contact.
As it stands, it looks like not one single person out of the six moderators has been present all day!

Bottom line, Matthew Fox4, stop going in circles!
The purpose of this thread is clear!

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Lisa Young83 said:@Kenneth Ross8/">@@Kenneth Ross8, any questions for the mods—unless they concern specific moderator decisions—can be posted in the Announcements, Suggestions, Ideas, and Actions... thread, just like before (...)

If I may be so bold as to disagree—speaking both as a former moderator and as the person who actually started this thread under its current title—I think we should look at the bigger picture.

The thing is, FD, you might not be aware that the previous thread was actually shut down because certain users were using it as a staging ground for personal arguments. During one particularly messy blowout, a new thread was opened without specifically including the word "questions" in the title. Over time, everyone just naturally accepted it for what it was, as indicated by the heading—and honestly, if anyone needs proof, I can certainly dig up the links to show how that happened.

It’s possible the thread might eventually get renamed to Question II, or perhaps the current moderation team will decide that everything should be handled through the PŽK, though at this point, we're really just left to speculate.

That being said, I feel your interpretation is a bit arbitrary; it suggests an "all or nothing" approach where either no questions are allowed at all, or every single question is permitted as long as it's phrased politely. Let's be real—nobody is untouchable here, and no one is as protected as a grizzly bear in a national park. At least, that’s how it has functioned until now.

If things are changing, then fine, let them change. I just hope there's some clarity provided along the way. 🙂

If the rule is set that questions can only be posted under Messages, complaints, and comments, then that needs to be stated clearly!
But, you also have to realize that if that's the case, people expect direct answers, not evasive dodging of straightforward questions!

In the past, things were a mess, which is why the PPDF is now a dying PPDF, and because of that, plenty of high-quality moderators and forum members have walked away. A shame!! A huge shame!!

We understand that moderator Matthew Fox4 is trying to "establish" some order, but unfortunately, she’s doing it all wrong. You can't force anything through sheer willpower!

And if rules were being broken when threads were being opened before the last moderator lineup

Lisa Young83 said:I can't answer this because I've only been a moderator since June 26th of this year, and I'm not a member or part of the leadership of any animal rescue Association, so there's no conflict of interest here.

, yes, just like none of the previous moderators approached every thread equally, since there was basically only one active moderator anyway!

.

Well, I guess I’m the second one being asked about (thanks girls 🙂), so I figured I should chime in too—just so it doesn't look like I'm acting without permission...

Sorry, here's an example of a thread being locked WITHOUT any explanation as to why on the PPDF, which is supposed to be for assistance.
A user gets hit with guidelines they didn't ask for, but they don't even get told why the thread was shut down.
And the thread isn't breaking any rules, nor is it in the wrong section.
The reason it belongs right here:-- all help regarding foster animals happens over at Blue Paw, whereas pet owners handle things elsewhere, and it's pretty clear here we aren't talking about owned pets.
Just browse through the threads a bit—the advice, suggestions... recommendations, ideas... all that positive energy and support flows through the whole Blue Paw community.

Could the mods please weigh in on why this thread was closed?
Isn't the Blue Paw PDF meant for seeking help? When we're asking for transport, money, or food, surely we can also ask for emotional support or guidance from this side of things. Advice on vets, checkups, bottle-feeding kits... everything.

My example isn't exactly chaotic, but if I had found newborn kittens that I needed to hand-raise—which is such a sensitive situation with such a high risk of mortality—I would need every bit of help I could get, not just a link to another thread. There are older threads where people successfully raised kittens thanks to help from others, but those act more like guides, much like the threads explaining what to do when you find a dog. But aside from those specific guides, help threads are allowed to be opened, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong.
I really feel like my thread was closed unnecessarily...

I could post in the adoption thread I opened, but I'd just be cluttering it up with stuff that doesn't belong there, and the actual purpose of that thread—which is strictly adoption—would get lost in the shuffle...

Still waiting patiently for answers.
More than 24 hours have passed, and that’s not even counting the downtime when the Forum was offline.

Thanks!
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restlessangler said:Since I was asked about this second—thanks, ladies 🙂—I figured I should weigh in too, just so it doesn't look like I'm ignoring the rules by posting without permission..

Could the mods please clarify why this thread was closed?
Isn't the Blue Paw Association PPDF designed so that while we seek help with transport, funding, or food, we can also ask for support from other angles—like vet recommendations, medical checkups, or even raising young animals...

My specific situation isn't exactly chaotic, but if I had found newborn kittens—which is such a delicate matter where the mortality risk is incredibly high—I would need every bit of help available, not just a link to a different thread. We have older threads created with the help of forum members who successfully raised kittens, but those serve more as guidelines—much like the threads outlining what to do when you find a dog. Aside from those specific guides, aren't general help threads allowed?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I honestly feel my thread was closed unnecessarily..

I could post within the adoption thread I opened, but I'd just be cluttering it with irrelevant details and drowning out the actual purpose of that PPDF thread, which is strictly for adoption..

The moderator provided an explanation on the thread that was closed. And on the thread where the quote above originated, the Admin did as well.

Kenneth Ross8 said:Anyway, let's get back to the point!!
...The WHOLE POINT of this thread is:
just getting clear answers to specific questions about opening threads for animal rescue!

1. Have the rules changed?

The rules regarding opening threads to help animals haven't changed in the last month and a half.

2. Are the rules for opening group threads the same—meaning, you don't have to fill out a questionnaire for every single pet anymore?

For group threads, you don't need to fill out a questionnaire for every individual animal. But, if a separate thread is opened for one specific pet from that group, then yes, a questionnaire needs to be filled out on that new thread.

3. What are the rules when an animal shelter is running low on food and there’s nothing left to feed the rescues today?

Blue Paw doesn't have a specific rule for "when the shelter is running out of food," but so far, threads with that kind of content haven't been closed.

4. Why can't someone open an informational thread anymore?? Like, a user finds some kittens, they aren't asking for food or money, but they just need advice on how to raise them. The last thread like this was closed. The user is totally confused.

Since the Blue Paw PPDF is basically part of the Pets PPDF, any questions that already have existing topics over on the Pets section should be directed there. Opening yet another thread for a single animal would just create unnecessary clutter and make the Blue Paw PPDF impossible to navigate. In the thread mentioned, the user was given links to the relevant topic.

Look how sweet this user is being, trying not to spam their own adoption thread:

I don't want to spam my adoption thread, so I'll post here instead..

The little ones have fleas..

...the moderators are just trying to make sure the PPDF doesn't get cluttered with questions that are already covered in other parts of the Pets PPDF.

Matthew Fox4, thanks a ton for the answers!!

Hopefully, these responses get logged here too—Rules—so they're clear and available to everyone on the Forum!

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Lisa Young83 said:Since PPDF Blue Paw is an integral part of the Pets PDF, any questions that already have existing threads within the Pets section should be directed back to those specific threads. Starting yet another thread for a single animal would just create unnecessary clutter and make the Blue Paw PDF impossible to navigate. (...)

The highlighting is my own doing.

However, looking at the Rules originally drafted by former moderator Misery's Crown back in May 2009, there is a provision that really ought to be scrapped. It would certainly prevent Eda from running into these kinds of "confusions" moving forward:

If you have two separate threads for the same animal—one for medical help and one for adoption—you must keep them strictly separated.
This means that in the help thread, you only discuss the medical situation (while providing a link to the adoption thread for anyone interested in fostering), whereas the adoption thread is where you share all the details about the pet, photos, and everything else.

It seems restlessangler didn't follow the instruction to link the Udomljavanje thread within her newly opened request for help, or vice versa, but the explanation provided for closing the thread wasn't actually addressing that specific point.

Kenneth Ross8 said:Matthew Fox4, thank you so much for the answers!!

We hope these answers can be added here to the Rules, so they are clear and available to everyone on the forum!

I don't think we need to just record responses; if my opinion carries any weight at all, we should simply establish entirely new rules—because if the old ones aren't working, they clearly aren't valid, which seems evident based on recent moderator decisions and inconsistencies.

Until then, I believe we should stick to the current guidelines, and that applies to both the users and the moderators alike. It’s understandably tougher on our current mods because so many situations have been handled ad hoc depending on the circumstances, and since that requires a deep understanding of the subject matter, most forum members have grown accustomed to what we might call "customary law" here.

P.S. I feel compelled to write this here in the hope that if it's visible to everyone, it will be taken more seriously. 😢

bluerider2, the previous Rules were clear and "fine," and they were followed right up until the moderator himself decided to trample over them!!
And that’s where the confusion starts.
Everyone else is expected to follow them, yet the moderator just "stomps" all over them.

Regarding the "processing" of all threads—it's been a failure since the Rules were established because you haven't approached every topic equally or applied the markers (* + - etc.)—again, due to moderator laziness, passivity, and lack of impartiality. And let me say it again: you haven't even been able to keep up with everything yourself these last few months.

However, one thing needs to be understood: when an animal shelter is in an emergency regarding food, help can be requested urgently. Donors should be given the choice to buy food themselves and bring it to the "shelter," or transfer funds provided that receipts are attached, or perhaps they prefer hand-to-hand delivery of either food or cash.

A different story is when an animal needs medical treatment or sterilization... because in those cases, money isn't needed quite as instantly (at least in 95% of cases).

BTW, on restlessangler's thread, the moderator really should have first asked if the topic was still needed and guided restlessangler toward the mistakes (because, sorry, that is actually his job), rather than just shutting her down without explanation, locking the links, and leaving her to fend for herself while the animal waits!!

.

I’m still not quite sure why this thread was locked, but oh well...
I get it—the answers I was looking for are probably out there somewhere else (Google can be pretty amazing, after all)—but when I think back to how Blue Paw first started operating...

If my memory serves me right, before Blue Paw really took off, the focus wasn't so much on fundraising or donations, but more about just getting help to those little ones found out on the streets. I'm not entirely sure when that shifted so much.
Anyway, I'm just a tiny drop in the ocean compared to all the Blue Paw members who have been through here, and I believe that rules can change—and they do—so it's up to me to either adapt or move on.

Maybe it's my own fault for being "out of the loop" for so many years, coming back here hoping to find support and information all in one place. The irony is, I think these are the only animals I haven't actually asked for financial aid or food assistance for.

I hope you guys aren't upset with me (mods) for posting this here. There’s no anger on my end at all—just a bit of a question mark over my head and, honestly, a little disappointment... :/

restlessangler said:I'm still not quite sure why the thread was closed, but oh well...
I realize I could find the same answers elsewhere—Google works wonders—but when I think back to how Blue Paw first started out...

If my memory serves me right, before Blue Paw became what it is now, the focus wasn't so much on fundraising or donations, but rather providing help for the little ones found out on the streets. I'm not sure exactly when that shifted so much.
At any rate, I'm just a small drop in the ocean compared to all the Blue Paw members who have passed through here. I believe rules can change, and they do, so it’s up to me to either adapt or move on...

It’s my own fault for being "out of the loop" for so long; I came here hoping to find support and information all in one place. Ironically, I think this is the only animal for which I haven't asked for financial aid or food assistance...

I hope you aren't upset (mods) that I'm posting here. There's no anger on my end, just a bit of a question mark over my head and some genuine disappointment... :/

...restlessangler..., I looked into the situation and your thread will be restored. There was no reason to lock it, as the rules allow both support threads and adoption threads for the same pet on Blue Paw.

Please accept my apologies for this moderator oversight. I hope this incident won't stop you from continuing to look for the information you need here on PPDF.

Best regards!

Michelle Evans said:...restlessangler..., I took a quick look at what's going on, and we'll be moving this thread back. There’s really no need to lock it, since our Blue Paw Association rules actually allow for both a support thread and an adoption thread for the same pet.

If I may be so bold as to suggest, perhaps the moderators could also migrate those posts that restlessangler happened to write on other threads in the meantime, just so her entire story can finally be gathered together in one lovely, complete place? 🤷

restlessangler said:I still can't wrap my head around why they shut that thread down, but oh well... whatever!

My bad! I totally missed the rules there, so I'm sorry about that. I'll go ahead and close this thread now and head over to some other topics where I can actually find the answers I'm looking for.

Honestly, I haven't seen anyone actually running two separate threads for the same pet at once in forever. It seems like the standard way we do things now is to first post a "Found" thread, handle all the heavy lifting there—you know, the medical stuff, the recovery, getting them back on their feet—and then once they're stable, you close that out and start a fresh one over in the Adoption section. That’s really what prompted my reaction earlier. Plus, we really need to be quick about closing old threads; otherwise, they just end up burying everyone else's updates onto the second or third page of the PPDF. That was my only reason for pointing them toward the KLJ. There are already active threads there with answers to exactly what they're looking for, and it's much easier to get some extra clarification that way.

So, I’ve only been a moderator for, what, six whole weeks? Honestly, life just hit me with a ton of stuff right at the start of my internship here, and between all those responsibilities, I haven't had nearly enough time to comb through every single one of the rules. I totally missed this. My bad! Seriously, sorry about that once again.

restlessangler said:If my memory serves me right, before the Blue Paw Association really shifted focus, it wasn't even all about the fundraising or those donation drives. It was more about just getting out there and helping the little ones you'd find wandering the streets. I honestly can't quite pin down when things started changing so much.

The new moderators just inherited this whole mess at Blue Paw, so honestly, I can't really give you a straight answer on exactly when things started spiraling like this regarding that specific issue. It's just how it was handed to us.

restlessangler said:Anyway, I’m just one tiny drop in the massive ocean of Blue Paw members who have drifted through here over the years. Honestly, I truly believe that rules aren't set in stone—they evolve, they shift, and they change as we go. At the end of the day, it’s really on me to either roll with the punches and adapt, or just move on. It is what it is!

I guess I have myself to blame. After being out of the loop for so many years, I finally decided to hop on here thinking I’d find a one-stop shop for support and actual helpful info. It’s funny, really—if you think about it. Out of all my pets, I think these are actually the only ones where I haven't had to reach out for financial aid or help with food. Just a weird little irony, I suppose!

I really hope the mods aren't going to come after me for posting this here. Seriously, I’m not trying to start any drama or anything—there’s zero anger on my end, I promise! It’s more like... I don't know, I just have this massive question mark hovering over my head right now. Honestly? I'm just feeling a little disappointed. :/

I’m really sorry I let you down like that—honestly, in my own clumsy way, I feel like I played a part in all this disappointment too. It just wasn't my intention. I truly hope you aren't thinking about leaving KLJ. We can just tackle all these hiccups, the moderator slip-ups, and the messy rule stuff as they come. If we work through it together, we can make sure everyone feels at home here on KLJ and, more importantly, keep doing good things for our pets and the animals we're helping.

Honestly, there's no need to apologize to me. We’re all human—we make mistakes... and I’ll be the first to admit that myself, since I'm certainly no saint. You probably already know I've occasionally helped someone move some boxes under the circumstances 😬.

I really appreciate you guys reopening this thread. I promise I won't use it for anything pointless; I know—and this was actually something I struggled with before because I hated jumping into every single discussion without a good reason—that there are much more important topics over at Right Paw, and it wouldn't be right of me to bump this up constantly...

Thanks again, everyone!!

Lisa Young83 said:..., and we'll just have to deal with any clumsy mistakes from the mods, the rules, and the forum users as they happen. We'll fix things on the fly to make sure everyone feels comfortable here at KLJ and that we're actually being useful to our pets and rescues.

👍

We know this takes time. Good intentions are what matter most. 🙂