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Heavy color - plagiarism?

Started by Gary Diaz3 · · 👁 5 views · 24 replies

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Participants Gary Diaz3Peter PhillipsPatrick MartinHenry Adams3Raymond Walker5Samuel Morgan40Angela Davis4Sam Lee2Karen Cook6Morgan Brown4frozenraven39goldenscout14quietfox38Ethan Rivera53Casey Ramos78Kimberly Anderson22granitecyclist2
Gary Diaz3 Gary Diaz3 MemberOP
22 messages
joined Sep 2013
#1 ·
I’d love for you guys to check this out:
Mothers - heavy color http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfCRAdVDbx8

Billy Squier - Everybody wants you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK-v_YndGn4

Just to be clear, I’m really just focusing on that core riff here rather than the track as a whole.
Peter Phillips Peter Phillips Newcomer
1 message
joined Apr 2013
#2 ·
Why all this talk about plagiarism? The lyrics aren't even identical; it's just that the music feels somewhat similar.
Patrick Martin Patrick Martin Regular
702 messages
joined Aug 2015
#3 ·
That main riff is honestly pretty similar to the other one, and if you ask me, it just works way better when you pair it up with some mothers and a heavy color☕
Henry Adams3 Henry Adams3 Member
13 messages
joined Jun 2012
#4 ·
Patrick Martin said:that main riff is pretty much a carbon copy, and honestly, it feels more at home paired with some bluesy grit and a heavy color☕

Spot on.

But now...
Raymond Walker5 Raymond Walker5 Active Member
79 messages
joined Jul 2017
#5 ·
It’s basically the exact same riff, and honestly, that’s all there is to it.
Samuel Morgan40 Samuel Morgan40 Active Member
178 messages
joined Mar 2010
#6 ·
Gary Diaz3 said:I think you all really need to hear this:
Mothers - heavy color http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfCRAdVDbx8

Billy Squier - Everybody wants you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK-v_YndGn4

So, I'm really just talking about that fundamental riff here—not necessarily claiming the entire song is a copy.

Heh, I see someone else still remembers that little track... I have to admit, the moment I first heard heavy color, Squire immediately came to mind. But, at the end of the day, a riff is just a riff—there's so much of that stuff floating around nowadays that you can hardly call it plagiarism.
Angela Davis4 Angela Davis4 Member
14 messages
joined May 2012
#7 ·
It’s not as if that bass riff is some groundbreaking innovation. There are millions of variations just like it out there. I’m not trying to defend the band, I’m simply saying that when I first heard that heavy color riff, my immediate thought was, "Meh... nothing special, I've definitely heard riffs like this somewhere else before."
Sam Lee2 Sam Lee2 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Mar 2011
#8 ·
If they were actually going to call this plagiarism, I guess they’d have to go after this too...

Psy - Gangnam Style
http://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f0

Megadeth - Peace Sells
http://youtu.be/umeZtszNShk
Karen Cook6 Karen Cook6 Member
11 messages
joined Mar 2022
#9 ·
Finally, we get a decent rock track after what feels like an eternity of mediocrity, and of course, the self-proclaimed geniuses immediately start bickering over whether it’s a plagiarism.
Morgan Brown4 Morgan Brown4 Active Member
106 messages
joined Dec 2024
#10 ·
It doesn't strictly have to be plagiarism, but yeah—the riff is definitely similar. I don't see the big deal. Even if it is a rip-off, that doesn't automatically make it bad music.

Anyway, check this one out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKwHekXK0LI
frozenraven39 frozenraven39 Member
23 messages
joined Jan 2015
#11 ·
Where was everyone when it "came out" a few months back that Heavy Color was supposedly ripping off David Bowie's New Killer Star

But let's be real—first, David Bowie "stole" this:
Blur - Coffee and TV

They’re just simple, similar riffs—the kind of thing you could stumble upon yourself without having to lift a finger to steal from anyone. That's all there is to it.
Raymond Walker5 Raymond Walker5 Active Member
79 messages
joined Jul 2017
#12 ·
Honestly, all those tracks just fall flat for me. Who even cares about the riff? A riff isn't the foundation of a song, anyway.
goldenscout14 goldenscout14 Active Member
68 messages
joined Nov 2011
#13 ·
Some songs are built entirely around a single riff, and this track by the Stones is just a repetitive thud... It reminds me of what Stevie Wonder once said—that great artists borrow, but the truly legendary ones steal. Or maybe he phrased it differently; it doesn't seem like his own original thought anyway. Not that I’m suggesting the Stones are the greatest artists ever, obviously.
quietfox38 quietfox38 Member
30 messages
joined Mar 2023
#14 ·
goldenscout14 said:I think Stevie Wonder once said great artists borrow, while the legends steal. Or something close to that. Doesn't sound like his own idea, though.

Exactly. Just look at Led Zeppelin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M
Raymond Walker5 Raymond Walker5 Active Member
79 messages
joined Jul 2017
#15 ·
And let's be honest, even Deep Purple borrowed quite a bit for Child in Time.
Karen Cook6 Karen Cook6 Member
11 messages
joined Mar 2022
#16 ·
Raymond Walker5 said:Well, I suppose even Deep Purple lifted ideas for Child in Time.

And let's not forget Black Night, Smoke, and their whole massive legacy... honestly, if you actually sit down and watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ttmg25OrbQ, you really have to wrap your head around what "stealing" actually means. I mean, there is a massive difference between taking a spark of an idea, fleshing it out, and crafting something genuinely great, versus just snatching a complete concept to churn out some mediocre imitation.

Personally, I think heavy color is an absolutely fantastic thing; it turned into such a huge hit and you hear it everywhere, which, if you ask me, is just wonderful.
Ethan Rivera53 Ethan Rivera53 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Oct 2012
#17 ·
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfQAaK1pFM4

1:36-1:45 the absolute best part: "we stole from everyone" hahaha
1:54-2:37

Look, back then, all these legends would just "borrow" from one another, and nobody ever made a scene because there was this mutual respect... a genuine appreciation for the craft. Nowadays, things have shifted. There are a million riffs floating around out there already, so it’s hardly surprising when you run into something that sounds familiar...
Raymond Walker5 Raymond Walker5 Active Member
79 messages
joined Jul 2017
#18 ·
Honestly, to me, blatant theft is just a pathetic attempt at making music. Of course, you can always have accidental similarities in keys, harmonies, or rhythms, but intentionally stealing something and then claiming "this is mine" is honestly just a bit much.
It’s one thing when someone clearly incorporates someone else's musical snippet into a song, provided they actually credit that part on the album.

But to blatantly rip something off, play dumb, and insist that it’s "MY" creation? That’s truly sad.
Maybe there's a rule in certain genres where borrowing is somewhat acceptable—take the blues, for example. You can hear a million tracks that all follow the exact same formula, so if an identical melody pops up somewhere, it’s hard to tell because everything is so incredibly generic that you wouldn't notice if something was repeated for the millionth time. That's why I'm not particularly big on the blues, nor am I a fan of repetitive dance tracks; I just can't stand those generic things that feel like they were all stamped out from the same mold.

That's why thefts in pop music are so much more obvious. Perhaps that's also why it gets away with more than it would in rock or blues, where everyone is constantly lifting riffs from one another. Though, strictly speaking, the term "riff" doesn't even really apply outside of rock and metal.

The more original a melody is, the easier it becomes to spot a plagiarism. There are legendary musicians out there who have composed tens of thousands of pieces over their careers without anyone ever questioning if they stole anything; if there were ever suspicions, they were just minor, coincidental similarities.

When Paul McCartney dreamed up the melody for "Yesterday," he was actually worried it might be a plagiarism—that he had heard it somewhere before, forgotten it, and just happened to pick it up in his head. Before releasing it, he used to go around playing it for people just to see if the tune sounded familiar to anyone else.

And as for that argument that "all the riffs have already been played"—I think that's just nonsense. If a genre is truly that limited and all its riffs are "spent," then it either says a lot about the "quality" of that genre or suggests that many musicians are just terribly uninspired and unable to compose something good on their own.

The reality is that nothing in music can ever be truly "spent" because the number of possible combinations is infinite.
Personally, a riff itself isn't my main focus since I don't listen to that type of music all that much, but sticking a catchy riff onto a mediocre melody just results in mindless music to me. So, when I'm listening to a track with a stolen, relatively decent riff paired with a weak underlying melody, the bad melody is actually a much bigger issue for me than the stolen riff.
Casey Ramos78 Casey Ramos78 Member
19 messages
joined Apr 2009
#19 ·
Just heard this one—imagine life to the rhythm of dance music, it’s giving me such strong "You Can Leave Your Hat On" vibes.
Kimberly Anderson22 Kimberly Anderson22 Member
19 messages
joined Jun 2006
#20 ·
Andrew Williams23 said:finally, a decent rock track comes along after what feels like ages, and immediately, the self-proclaimed geniuses start venting about plagiarism.

I honestly don't get why some people feel such an intense urge to jump straight to insults—and usually the most crude or vulgar kind at that)🤷

The reality is, a huge part of this song relies on that riff, and it’s just... it's solid.

Even if there's a chance it was lifted subconsciously—which, I guess, happens quite often in straightforward genres like rock—it doesn't really change the quality of the track itself.

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