Grand Prix of Japan (Indianapolis) 10/09/2011

stormybadger8 said:Fernando Alonso is defending his spot using DRS

WTF 😕

I didn't even wrap my head around how that was even possible 😕

It’s because the detection zone is positioned quite a bit earlier, and they were actually lapping the car there. If you look at the car trailing him on the main straight, it was right ahead of Alonso when it hit the detection zone. It seems nonsensical, but the detection system doesn't distinguish between drivers who have been lapped and those fighting for position; we've seen this happen several times this year already.

hollowgull5 said:and honestly, you already had the TBF1D explain exactly why that happens 😉

man, just start watching F1 as a whole instead of obsessing over your one little idol...

Look, Jenson Button was dealing with fuel issues and couldn't run on the optimal mixture because he’d have run dry, and honestly, that’s a huge part of why Fernando Alonso was able to pull a four-second gap on him.☕

It’s a shame Michael couldn't make the move at the start 😢 because his launch was actually incredible before he got blocked 😢.

Honestly, it sucks watching him struggle in that garbage Mercedes—it just shreds the tires, and regardless of whether they go with a conservative strategy or push to the absolute limit, it’s just not working 😢.

And at the end of the day, I regret that some idiot in charge decided to give Lewis Hamilton a license and let him enter Formula 1 in the first place 🙂.

stormybadger8 said:Fernando Alonso is defending his spot using DRS

WTF 😕

I didn't even wrap my head around how that was even possible 😕

Yeah, I actually noticed they both had green on them too, though I honestly thought I was just seeing things for a second. 😬

silvergull10 said:It’s because the detection zone is positioned quite a bit earlier, and they were actually lapping the car there. If you look at the car trailing him on the main straight, it was right ahead of Alonso when it hit the detection zone. It seems nonsensical, but the detection system doesn't distinguish between drivers who have been lapped and those fighting for position; we've seen this happen several times this year already.

Actually, no, the detection system is supposed to differentiate between drivers battling for position and those being lapped. The entire DRS system operates based on the live timing, which then "unlocks" DRS for specific drivers. In this instance, it looks like the software simply misread the situation, and that's where the issue lies.

And how on earth did Fernando Alonso realize the software had misread something? It's hard to believe he was actually expecting DRS; I doubt he'd even notice a glitch like that if he wasn't looking for it.

Joseph Flores15 said:If Lewis Hamilton hadn't completely messed up ten different races, he would be right here fighting alongside Sebastian Vettel 😂 😂

This guy just refuses to tell the whole truth...

🤣🤣🤣

His commentary is honestly disgusting; I was actually forced to listen to him yesterday, unfortunately😠

-if a grandma had a dick, she'd be a grandpa😁

And that whole thing about how they don't penalize Vettel just because he's buddies with Bernie? That was just as pathetic🙂

mistybear87 said:Actually, no, the detection system is supposed to differentiate between drivers battling for position and those being lapped. The entire DRS system operates based on the live timing, which then "unlocks" DRS for specific drivers. In this instance, it looks like the software simply misread the situation, and that's where the issue lies.

DRS actually triggers for cars being lapped too.

Otherwise, the DRS setup at this track was spot on—exactly how it should be. I’m fundamentally against this whole "push to pass" style of system, but given the current aerodynamic landscape, it's a necessary evil. I actually think the FIA hit the right balance here.

Without DRS, Sebastian Vettel wouldn't have stood a theoretical chance of attacking Fernando Alonso. If Red Bull had just let them race through to the end, we would have seen a fantastic battle.

A few key takeaways from Literal Formula 1 Blog:

Here are all the interesting details from the race you might have missed. I’ll keep updating this as new developments emerge.

* Lewis Hamilton mentioned he can't even see his mirrors on the straights because of the vibrations—a rather concerning statement, wouldn't you say?
* Jenson Button snatched the fastest lap of the race, beating Sergio Perez by a mere 0.001 seconds! This marks his second consecutive fastest lap and only his sixth overall.
* Michael Schumacher has become the oldest driver to lead a race since Jack Brabham did back at the 1970 United States GP.
* Paul di Resta noted that the safety car was a massive blow to Force India, appearing right as they were hitting their most efficient and optimal phase.
* Both Lotus cars managed to finish on the lead lap. Great result for them, however aided by the safety car in the middle.
* Kamui Kobayashi also felt that the safety car effectively ruined his race.
* This marks the first time Sebastian Vettel has finished third this season. Up until now, it has been nothing but firsts, seconds, and a single fourth-place finish.
* Nico Rosberg climbed from 23rd to finish 10th. The standout moment? His pass on di Resta around the inside of Dunlop corner!
* Jenson Button confirmed he spoke with Sebastian Vettel regarding the incident at the start. Button maintains that he believes Vettel’s claim that he didn't see him until they were side-by-side. While the BBC suggests Vettel's body language implies he was being untruthful, I find that hard to swallow. Vettel clearly explained that the mirror angle is too narrow; he reacted the instant he saw Button. It seems like a non-story to me.
* For those who care, the (in my opinion) dreadful music choice that soured a great moment was Duck Sauce’s Big Bad Wolf, played on loop three or four times.
* Sebastian Vettel’s father is affectionately dubbed “papa Shurlf or Smurf” by Red Bull.
* Mercedes continue to lead in pit stops, and had the fastest stops of the race.
* Red Bull experienced a “very steep cliff” with their tires. Essentially, once the grip vanished, it disappeared instantly. To manage this, Red Bull opted for a “compromise strategy,” pitting a lap earlier than usual to avoid hitting that cliff.

This also explains, if one is inclined to ponder, the commentary regarding that terrible song they kept playing. 🙏

Fernando Alonso caught up to the car ahead right before the chicane leading onto the main straight, which meant he was actually allowed to use DRS... I've seen this happen quite a bit lately, especially during the race in Canada this year..

..it’s not exactly groundbreaking that a driver who laps a car can use DRS to make the pass—but it definitely feels a little sketchy when that overtake happens right at the detection point or on the straight where the DRS is being deployed..

That's why it felt particularly shady in Canada, since there were two massive straights like that. I even saw a couple of instances where a driver being hunted would intentionally "hang back" just enough to stay a full lap down, just so they could snag that DRS and defend against the faster car..

steelmaker83 said:DRS actually triggers for cars being lapped too.

Otherwise, the DRS setup at this track was spot on—exactly how it should be. I’m fundamentally against this whole "push to pass" style of system, but given the current aerodynamic landscape, it's a necessary evil. I actually think the FIA hit the right balance here.

Without DRS, Sebastian Vettel wouldn't have stood a theoretical chance of attacking Fernando Alonso. If Red Bull had just let them race through to the end, we would have seen a fantastic battle.

Not that I'm aware of. But hey, maybe I've got it wrong—if you happen to have some reliable info on this, would you mind sharing the link with us? 😉

mistybear87 said:He has a light that turns on when he’s allowed to use DRS. He didn't trigger it immediately; he only did it later on the straight once he realized he was cleared to go.
It isn't his fault, nor is it Ferrari's. Race control is the only entity responsible for giving the signal for DRS—specifically, through the software they utilize. If the software glitches (maybe there's a "Ferrari mode" 😬) it isn't Fernando Alonso's fault.

3.18.2 The adjustable bodywork may be activated by the driver at any time prior to the start of the race and, for
the sole purpose of improving overtaking opportunities during the race, after the driver has completed a
minimum of two laps after the race start or following a safety car period.
The driver may only activate the adjustable bodywork in the race when he has been notified via the control
electronics (see Article 8.2) that it is enabled. It will only be enabled if the driver is less than one second
behind another at any of the pre-determined positions around each circuit. The system will be disabled by
the control electronics the first time the driver uses the brakes after he has activated the system.
The FIA may, after consulting all competitors, adjust the above time proximity in order to ensure the stated
purpose of the adjustable bodywork is met.
There is absolutely nothing in the regulations stating this doesn't apply to overtaking other drivers; we have seen similar situations in previous races. Everything is perfectly within the rules, and honestly, Red Bull would be complaining if it weren't.

mistybear87 said:Not that I'm aware of. But hey, maybe I've got it wrong—if you happen to have some reliable info on this, would you mind sharing the link with us? 😉

Look, silvergull10, that’s technically how the rulebook is written, but we've seen way too many instances this season where DRS was being triggered just to overtake slower cars.

steelmaker83 said:Look, silvergull10, that’s technically how the rulebook is written, but we've seen way too many instances this season where DRS was being triggered just to overtake slower cars.

In that case, I guess I was wrong. 🙂
If that's how it works, then it feels a bit silly, doesn't it? Those drivers are supposed to pull aside anyway, and in this instance, Sebastian Vettel ended up getting damaged. He probably wouldn't have made the pass regardless, but I suppose we'll never know for sure.😉

It isn’t exactly nonsense... consider a scenario where, say, Alonso is busy defending his position against Vettel, but at the same time, he has to navigate around someone like Kovalainen who is a lap down. He isn't allowed to use DRS to get past Kovalainen; instead, he has to wait for him to notice and pull over properly, all while Vettel is right on his tail with full DRS privileges. In a situation like that, overtaking becomes easiest for the trailing driver if the car ahead hits traffic, making the defense even more of a nightmare. Since DRS already provides an artificial advantage to the car behind, this dynamic would only make the struggle to hold onto a position even more complicated.

That’s true, though since DRS is only really an option on the straights, Alonso can still find a way to pull alongside by catching that sweet slipstream...

Either way, neither move is particularly easy to pull off.🙂

mistybear87 said:That’s true, though since DRS is only really an option on the straights, Alonso can still find a way to pull alongside by catching that sweet slipstream...

Either way, neither move is particularly easy to pull off.🙂

But that’s exactly the point. It adds another layer to the tactical battles on track.

I'm fine with it.

Christian Williams61 said:where's Michael Lee4? 😳 totally wrecked the race 🙂 😁

Two nights of heavy drinking in a row meant I wasn't exactly itching to get out of bed early. I rolled out around 10, grabbed a US BBC recording from a torrent, and let it rip. It was ready right by lunchtime, so I just sat down and settled in. I’d been avoiding the news and social media just to dodge any spoilers, which made the ending pretty intense—especially when Fernando started closing in on Noble.

Honestly, it’s such a shame he didn't have a car this competitive from day one.

So the plan was basically to chase them down and lap them? Using it like that feels pretty stupid, but hey, if that’s how they want to play it.

I honestly missed that detail earlier. I was busy digging around for info on that new contract😁, then I stumbled onto this video and it actually caught me off guard.

All in all, the clip is way too short to really make sense of what happened or why, but the one thing that’s totally nonsensical is that you can just use DRS whenever you want, regardless of whether you've already lapped the driver before the activation zone.

It’s just plain ridiculous.🙄

I don't think Vettel lost anything because of this. Even if Red Bull had let him go, he probably would've just overtaken Alonso on the next lap or ended up in a wreck anyway.🤣

Regardless, that specific rule is just dumb.🙂

Michael Lee4 said:Two nights of heavy drinking in a row meant I wasn't exactly itching to get out of bed early. I rolled out around 10, grabbed a US BBC recording from a torrent, and let it rip. It was ready right by lunchtime, so I just sat down and settled in. I’d been avoiding the news and social media just to dodge any spoilers, which made the ending pretty intense—especially when Fernando started closing in on Noble.

Honestly, it’s such a shame he didn't have a car this competitive from day one.

How long does it usually take for a decent torrent to pop up after the race—ideally that US BBC version?