2012 Japanese GP (Suzuka) - Oct 7th

Roger Wright94 said:So incidents like this—and honestly, just everything else lately—really get under my skin. I can't even remember being this frustrated. It actually crossed my mind to just stop watching altogether, which is something I haven't felt since back in the mid-eighties.

I'm definitely not the only one who thought about tuning out
but yeah, it's super irritating

Roger Wright94 said:I mean, am I just being dragged by the tongue here, business-wise or whatever?
Nah, I think I've already hit my limit, I guess.

Man, I don't know, you acting like you're all worked up over nothing... I mean, was it really that big of a deal? Like, were you actually getting that stressed out over the number of yellow cards or someone losing their cool and swearing? I guess maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but it felt a little intense.
😁

Edward Howard2 said:Look, I’m just gonna say it—I really don't have the energy to get into a heated debate at this level... I guess I'll just sit this one out. 🙂 👋

🤦
Look, I’ve seen a few posts floating around here already where people are pointing out that Sky, the BBC, and even ESPN have basically all reached the same conclusion—that the incident wasn't on Kimi's part. Honestly, a good chunk of us here seem to agree with them too. But then you and a handful of other Alonso fans just keep insisting on a totally different story. I mean, hey, it’s fine to have your own take, and it's perfectly legitimate to disagree, but it really makes me wonder... were we all even watching the same race? It feels like maybe you guys are just refusing to see what everyone else is seeing right in front of them, or, I don't know, maybe your eyesight isn't quite what it used to be?
Whatever level we're talking about, I guess it doesn't really matter.
🤷

Roger Wright94 said:So, when people say Kimi was actually slowing down, I kind of just take that as a joke, I guess.

I mean, for God's sake, why on earth would Kimi need to slow down in a situation like that? They’re running wheel-to-wheel, and honestly, it looks more like Alonso is just shoving him right off the track!

Jack Kelly5 said:Come on, you can't seriously be this worked up, right? Is it the number of penalties or the swearing?
😁

It’s the sheer volume of insults thrown at Kimi.
I don't swear much, but here, I feel like there's no way out of it (though I really should try to keep it together).

Jack Kelly5 said:Look, there have been several posts already claiming that Sky, BBC, RAI, or whoever else decided the incident wasn't Kimi's fault. A lot of us here reached that conclusion too. But you, along with a few other Alonso fans, keep insisting on something else. Hey, it's fine to have an opinion, but it makes me wonder: were we even watching the same race? Are you just refusing to see what everyone else sees, or are you actually just blind?

I'm watching Fringe, currently on season 3 (wondering when they'll finally get to the more explicit stuff🤷).
The whole show is about two parallel worlds that look identical but are fundamentally different—double lives. It feels like Max, Pila, and I were watching the race in that parallel universe. 😁
And by the way, is anyone else here besides those guys actually seeing reality?

Jack Kelly5 said:Why on earth would Kimi need to slow down in that spot? They’re wheel-to-wheel and Alonso is practically shoving him off the track!

Not then.
By that point, Alonso had already cleared him. Then comes the turn and that tight narrowing of the track.

And don't give me that "he's pushing him off" line. Sure, he's pushing him, but not off the track. That's the distinction.

Roger Wright94 said:I don't really swear that much, and honestly, I don't think I ever will—not here, anyway—but I feel like I probably should, if only to keep myself from losing it.

Well, I guess at least we have that one thing in common...
😁

Roger Wright94 said:I guess it’s gotta be that Max, Pila, and I were all watching the race in some weird parallel universe or something. 😁 I mean, just curious, is there anyone else around here who’s totally clueless besides the ones already mentioned?

Look, I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be some whole parallel universe thing or whatever. Just think about it—Sunday morning, all those little unhinged maniacs running around without any filter... I guess it could just go that way.
😁

Roger Wright94 said:Not really at that time, I guess.
I mean, he’d already gotten past Alonso, right? And then you've got that corner coming up with that really tight little squeeze on the track... I guess things just started getting messy there.
And please, don't even try telling me he’s pushing him off the track. I mean, sure, he's definitely shoving him, but it's not like he's forcing him out of the racing line or anything. That's the whole point, I guess.

I think you’re blowing things way out of proportion. The reality is that Alonso just went for it, lunging hard toward Kimi's side of the track—honestly, he even had to jerk the wheel a bit because of Button. I mean, expecting Kimi to just slam on the brakes while he was already halfway off onto the grass... that seems kind of crazy to me. If anything, if it had been Kimi who pulled a move like that, the fallout probably would've been even worse.

fadedwalker18 said:Felipe Massa went bald.

It just reminded me of why I actually like Felipe. Honestly, why do I even like him? It’s because he’s a real human being who isn't afraid to show emotion (I'm thinking back to Brazil 2008 and some of those other heartfelt moments of his). It feels like Seb Vettel, Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, and especially Mark Webber, they all handle this whole fame thing so coldly, almost like they're robots. 🤮 It’s as if winning is just business as usual to them!

Here is how I see it;
There is a genuine, raw humanity in Felipe. He gave Kamui such a warm greeting, even giving him a friendly pat on the helmet, and calling him over when he climbed out of the car (Kamui was clearly a bit shaken and had headed off toward his mechanics).
Meanwhile, Seb stood there on the podium mentioning he remembered being on the podium with Kamui back in Formula 3, but he said it so soul-lessly—just like he was checking a box on a script. That was it. Just a formality.

Felipe, may God and LdM grant you a seat at Ferrari in 2013 (or at least keep you in F1)! Because, at the end of the day, I much prefer watching drivers who are actual people rather than just cold, calculating machines... 🙂

☕

👍

I imagine it’s a massive celebration at the Massin household today.

Regarding the Alonso vs Kimi situation, Sky will probably have some explanation ready soon, and there'll likely be footage on YouTube shortly...

Anyway, Kimi isn't even remotely at fault, at least according to them and the footage...
Alonso had another mediocre start and was busy trying to hold him off—first from Kimi, then from Button..

And of course, they pulled out that fancy aerial replay of theirs...
here are the shots.

You can clearly see Kimi had a much better launch and was already neck-and-neck with Alonso before things went south...
Which is exactly what he said himself...
and the video proves it too.


It’s obvious Kimi got forced wide toward the edge of the track with nowhere to go, yet he still managed to stay right alongside Alonso...


Later on, Alonso shoved Kimi right into the grass... and looking at the photo, the track is just as wide there; there's zero evidence of any narrowing🤦

Then, while Kimi was recovering from the grass, his wing clipped Alonso's rear tire.

So Kimi is absolutely blameless here... if he were actually at fault, he would've been penalized.
As far as I know, they said at the start of the race that stewards were looking into it, and since no penalty came through during the race (nor any word that one wasn't coming😕)
it makes perfect sense to me that they just called it a racing incident with no penalty...

Honestly, it *should* be ruled a racing incident, because that's exactly what it is.☕
Plus, this all happened in the first lap, and I'm guessing Alonso didn't even see him—he was probably too busy dodging Button and staying focused on him...

So, in my book, even Alonso isn't really to blame. If anyone is, it's more on Alonso's side than Kimi's, because Kimi is totally innocent here.
He got forced off the track and lost control of the car while trying to get back on.
I seriously don't get how anyone could possibly try to pin anything on Kimi in this situation.🤦
We aren't talking about someone being squeezed in a corner or on a section where overtaking is impossible; this is the start of the race on a straightaway, for crying out loud.🤦

stormybadger8 said:Regarding that whole Alonso vs Kimi mess, I mean, the stuff they're spinning on ESPN... there'll probably be some YouTube footage popping up soon to clear it all up. But honestly, from what they're saying and looking at the clips, Kimi isn't even remotely at fault, at least according to their narrative...

And now you're over there acting like you've got all this high-level expertise, pulling in virtual data, satellite imagery, and whatever other fancy nonsense some random amateur can dig up. It's pretty much elementary school level stuff, if you ask me.
😬

...sorry in advance... I just couldn't help myself...
😳🙈

fadedwalker18 said:Felipe Massa went bald.

It just reminded me why I actually like Felipe. He’s a real person who actually shows some emotion (thinking back to Brazil 2008 and his other emotional outbursts). Meanwhile, guys like Sebastian Vettel, Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, and especially Mark Webber? They treat all this glory like a business transaction—cold and totally soulless. 🤮 Like they're just checking boxes or something.

Here’s my take:
Felipe has actual humanity in him. He gave Kamui a genuine greeting, gave him a friendly tap on the helmet, and pulled him aside when he climbed out of the car (Kamui was pretty shaken up and headed straight for his mechanics).
But Seb? On the podium, he just mentioned remembering being on a podium with Kamui back in Formula 3, and he said it so heartlessly, like he was just reading a script. That was it.

Felipe, please, for God and LdM, stay at Ferrari through 2013 (or at least stay in F1)! Because honestly, I’d much rather watch drivers who are human beings than these cold, calculating machines... 🙂

☕

Everything here is just cold, soulless, and purely for show:
http://www.zaslike.com/files/fczulh2tp7q2g0uhcdr.jpg

http://www.zaslike.com/files/urbh7qyyx5zazwh8t9k.jpg

That podium shot is proof enough of how cold and empty it all is...


And this shows what "celebrating" looks like to them:

Just look at the darkness, the packed grandstands, and the drivers facing the crowd...

Good grief, I can't believe the producer actually cut half the broadcast for commercials right when you wanted to see what was happening on and around the track.🤷
Or is Massin's little helmet tap really a bigger celebration than a handshake, a pat on the shoulder, a hug, or just a normal conversation on the podium?😕

I mean, what are you even gonna say? From what I saw, Felipe was actually sincere when he congratulated both of them—meanwhile, your precious Vettel was just messing around with Kamui

Regarding the Alonso-Kimi situation—look, we see racing incidents like that at almost every single start, doesn't it? This time, it was just Alonso's turn to take the hit. The end.

Kamui delivered a flawless performance on home soil; the atmosphere felt just like a massive football game, truly unbeatable.

I really wish this guy would land a seat with a top-tier team. Just imagine if he ended up at Ferrari—I honestly think the entire USA would be painted red.

I'm not sure if Petrol blocked a few turns for Nježnik, but whoever it was, Kamui owes him a drink!

It was also a solid race for Hulko, who climbed all the way from 15th to finish 7th.

And then, of course, there's Massa. He is clearly on the rise, isn't he? Who knows? Maybe in some bizarre twist of fate, he might even be the one to help Alonso clinch the title.😍

Vettel has brought back the uncertainty to the championship. He's found his rhythm now, while things over at Ferrari seem to be falling apart.

If it were any other driver, I’d probably be predicting a hat-trick for Vettel, but since we're talking about Alonso, I suspect it'll stay neck-and-neck until the very end.

It was interesting to read Alonso saying that these first three races of the Asian tour are the real turning points for the championship. They need to be strong here, so let's see how things unfold in Korea.

And while the fight for the driver's title is down to two people, the WCC is still incredibly compelling.

The McLaren crew might actually catch up to the Bulls, which, shall we say, could inadvertently help Alonso out.

Lotus isn't far behind Ferrari, and Alonso might find himself struggling against that cheerful duo. Honestly, though? I'd bet on Sauber finishing the season ahead of The Bear.

shadowstag10 said:Look, it's not Kimi's fault, and it's not Alonso's either. It was just a standard racing incident. Five years ago, nobody would have even blinked at this. ☕

Facts. 👍
Plus, there's a ton of races left on the calendar and plenty of points up for grabs. I don't think anything is settled yet, and I definitely don't think any one team has a massive edge over the others. Right before this race, everyone was acting like McLaren was untouchable, then boom—Red Bull takes it. All three drivers are still very much in the hunt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs
This is hands down the best video I've come across to help make sense of everything happening here.
Based on this footage, if they applied the same rules from Monza, it would have been a drive-through penalty for Alonso... though honestly, I'm glad they didn't, because it wasn't warranted anyway.
From what I can see, before the contact, Kimi's front wing was actually ahead of the center of Alonso's rear left tire.
The most important part is from 0:34 to 0:40.

These final races are going to be absolutely riveting. We're looking at a high-stakes chess match involving engine changes and tactical gambles—we'll soon see who’s brave enough to push the limit and who decides to play it safe by taking a penalty instead.

Raymond Anderson4 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs
This is easily the best clip I've come across so far.
Based on this footage, even if we apply the rules from Monza, it looks like a drive-through penalty for Alonso.
If you look closely, I really think Kimi's front wing was positioned ahead of the center of Alonso's rear left tire before the contact happened.

Exactly, though I wasn't planning on bringing that up just yet.😛
But then again, it's the start of the race, so you know how things get...😁

So, the folks over on YouTube are all saying there was plenty of room for Alonso's car on that track, just maybe not enough room for his massive ego (which, honestly, is far too much potential to let go to waste, sorry Fernando!) 🙂

Raymond Anderson4 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs
This is honestly the best video I've come across lately, and it was exactly what I needed to really wrap my head around this whole situation.
Based on how things went down, if they had applied the same rules from Indy, Alonso would have been handed a drive-through penalty... though I'm glad that didn't happen because he didn't deserve it.
From what I can see, Kimi's front wing was already ahead of Fernando's rear left tire before the contact actually happened.
The most important part to watch is from 0:34 to 0:40.

Kimi isn't to blame at all here; it's really on Alonso for causing the collision. He definitely had enough room to make the move, but he just kept pressing Kimi regardless. Besides, the stewards looked into it and decided there wasn't any illegal driving involved.

What a driver, and what a bunch of fans—just a bunch of crybabies.😁 🤣 😂

If you ask me, this whole mess cost Alonso the championship.☕

Roger Wright94 said:Just a collection of nicknames for Kimi.
I rarely swear—and honestly, I try my best to keep it together here—but man...

I’m currently watching season 3 of Fringe—and seriously, when are they going to get to the spicy stuff? 🤷.
The whole premise is about two parallel worlds that look identical but are fundamentally different, featuring double identities. It makes me think that Max, Pila, and I were actually watching the race in one of those parallel universes. 😁
And by the way, is there anyone else here who missed it besides the guys mentioned?

And what exactly do you three have in common?
The entire damn world! Even the folks over at RAIevac admitted Kimi wasn't at fault, yet you all keep insisting otherwise..
Down below, TBF posted proof that totally shuts down your claim that Kimi was never even halfway inside Alonso's car..
I don't quite get what you think Kimi should have done?
Should he have just moved out of the way of the infallible driver and driven onto the grass, risking a massive crash? If Alonso doesn't realize how rearview mirrors work, that's hardly Kimi's problem..
Alonso needs to chill out a bit, and honestly, so do his fans..

Roger Wright94 said:Did I say anywhere that Kimi deserved a penalty? No, it never even crossed my mind.
So, by default, it's a racing incident.
However, I still hold him responsible for the collision—meaning, I believe Kimi is the reason Alonso went off track.
Of course, there was no bad intention. But the stakes are just so high that I expect a higher level of caution and respect for others on the track.

But then the hateful claims started flying around saying Alonso was the one to blame..

Not really... it actually started with the hateful claims that Kimi was to blame and that he did it on purpose..
Go ahead, guess which hater from the forum originally pushed that narrative..☕

Raymond Anderson4 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs
This is easily the best video I’ve found to actually make sense of this whole mess.
Based on this, if they applied the rules from Indy, it would be a drive-through penalty for Alonso... but luckily they didn't, because he didn't deserve it.
If you look closely, Kimi's front wing was already ahead of Fernando's rear left tire before contact.
The key part is from 0:34 to 0:40.

I still don't get how those first five seconds of footage from this morning weren't enough for you to see what happened.

I even suggested earlier today that people check out the Sky analysis—that computer animation someone posted shows the exact positioning of the cars—but no... everyone's been screaming all day (and night) that Kimi is the one at fault.

Raymond Anderson4 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs
Honestly, this is the best video I've come across yet. Exactly what I needed to finally make sense of this whole situation.
It’s pretty depressing, honestly. Especially once they actually start enforcing those rules from Indy.This is basically a drive-through for Alonso.Honestly, it’s probably for the best. They didn't earn it anyway.
I think Kimi's front wing was actually ahead of Fernando's rear left tire before they made contact.
The crucial part is from 0:34 to 0:40.

Maybe by that precedent, sure, but common sense says absolutely not.
It’s just racing, honestly. And don't even get me started on that start... what a mess.

At the end of the day, it was pure, unadulterated stupidity. Honestly, who's even going to bother punishing anyone for something that dumb?
Look, when you're staring down a massive pack of cars at the start, things get messy fast. It’s not like you can just glance around and see everyone's position perfectly. You're flying at insane speeds, trying not to wreck, and suddenly someone's in your space. It's chaos.

There definitely needs to be a penalty when someone drives like a blind man—total Grosjean style—and slams right into another car. Ahead. I don't even know where to start with this one. Just... wow. 🤦
Look, a little side-to-side nudge in the middle of a pack isn't even in the same league as something like that. You can't even begin to compare them. It’s not even close.

There’s a massive difference between squeezing someone at the start or forcing them out in a corner versus what just happened on that straightaway. There was plenty of room there. It wasn't even a battle; it was just a case of following exactly what the guy behind you is doing.
At the end of the day, that rule exists specifically to say the driver has to leave space. On the plains....
Look, I wouldn't say it's written there for nothing... because once you hit the straightaways, it’s actually pretty easy to track exactly where the other car is and what they're doing.
Look, hitting that apex perfectly isn't exactly easy, and trying to navigate the chaos of a standing start? That’s a total crapshoot. It's practically impossible to stay clean when everyone's fighting for space.

If you ask me, that penalty Vettel got at Indy was a massive stretch. It made zero sense. Honestly, based on how I read the rulebook, that call wasn't even consistent with the actual regulation.
If they actually slapped Alonso with a penalty for that move at the start using that same rule, things would be getting absolutely ridiculous.🤦

On top of all that chaos at the start, we’ve still got to deal with something called a blind spot.
Looking at all the footage, I’d bet anything Kimi was right there in that blind spot. There's no way Alonso even saw him. He really should’ve been keeping an eye on where Perez was, what Button was doing, and just tracking everyone else around him...
Heading out and wondering where Grosjean might land next. Will he actually find a decent seat, or is he just looking at a dead end?
If they’d actually penalized Alonso for that move, I’d be the first one in your ear arguing that the penalty was total nonsense. I’d be telling you straight up that it was a massive joke and easily the dumbest call in the history of the sport.😳
Look, I'm not even an Alonso fan, and honestly, a penalty like that would actually help the driver I *do* root for.

The FIA usually manages to screw things up with some brainless decisions, but somehow, by some miracle, the stewards actually did a decent job this time. 👍

They’ve still got plenty of work to do, but they definitely need to put Grosjean on ice.
Look, maybe what he did on its own isn't an automatic ban, but given his track record? One more slip-up like that and he definitely deserves the boot. The kid just refuses to learn. 🤦
Maybe those guys over at Detroit are even worse, because if they can't see that there's a fundamental issue with his vision and perception, then we're really in trouble.🙄

USA 2009 – collision with Badoer – first lap
USA 2009 – contact which damaged wing – first lap
USA 2009 – crashed into Button – first lap
Australia 2012 – didn’t back off when Maldonado had line – second lap
Malaysia 2012 – collision with Schumacher – first lap
USA 2012 – contact with Perez – first lap
Monaco 2012 – collision with Schumacher – first lap
USA 2012 – contact with Di Resta – first lap
USA 2012 – ran off the track, took out Senna, Massa – first lap,
Belgium 2012 – collision with Lewis, Alonso – first lap
USA Japan 2012 – collision with Webber – first lap
🤦

-from the Autosport forums.