2012 British GP @ Silverstone

Looks like Lotus might actually hold their own in these conditions... if Groton hadn't spun out, and assuming Kimi's KERS is actually working properly, they'll probably land a solid 3rd or 4th again.

Jason Campbell70 said:So, a modern NASCAR bike is rock solid in the rain?
Does a modern NASCAR bike have a carbon monocoque to protect the rider during heavy impacts?
Do F1 drivers die because they lose front-end grip?

Regardless, these guys get out there and bite at every single corner and every inch of the track, even when the front wheel is lifting off the ground during hard acceleration.

I think you might be using today’s qualifying session as a bad example. The bikes were riding in rain that felt significantly lighter than the downpour that actually forced the qualifying sessions to be red-flagged. I was watching those sessions myself...
Secondly, motorcycle riders don't deal with visibility issues nearly as much as F1 drivers do. That’s a massive factor. It's why bikers can tuck right behind an opponent, whereas in F1, doing that is incredibly difficult.

Personally, I wouldn't be so critical of the F1 drivers.
They are our eyes on the track, and they know exactly what they're dealing with.

If several drivers in a row are appealing to stop qualifying because driving is simply impossible, then driving probably really isn't possible.

Visibility was genuinely terrible before the stoppage... I remember looking at the onboard cameras and I couldn't even tell which car was ahead. It was just a wall of rain obscuring everything. What is a driver supposed to do then? Drive completely off the racing line?

And I honestly don't get those comments about how people used to race. How drivers back in the day had "guts" while today's drivers supposedly don't.
What does that even have to do with anything? If drivers twenty or thirty years ago risked losing control and crashing, today's drivers have to face those same risks.
Someone close to me has followed F1 for about 35 years, and they've told me a few times that races in the past only continued because there weren't enough smart people to call them off—and because the top brass didn't care about driver safety. Races used to end with multiple casualties, with constant red flags due to crashes. What was the point of that??
Bruno explained it perfectly today... what’s the point of racing if cars are flying off the track constantly and causing yellow flags? You can't even complete a standard lap without hitting a flag in every sector.

Or let's try another comparison... if you remember that documentary about the history of F1.
How previous drivers raced in cars that were basically made of "paper"... every crash was more violent, and it was all too easy for a driver to end up in a morgue the next day.
Those drivers were often labeled as having "guts." Well, fine—let's put today's drivers in those old cars and see them race. If the old crowd had guts, let today's guys prove they have them too.

If the old guard could do it, why can't these guys? That logic seems pretty flawed to me.
Just because the attitude used to be "I don't care if someone hits the wall" doesn't mean we should apply that mindset today.
That’s why I think today's qualifying was stopped for good reason. For me, it was simply unwatchable; I couldn't see a single car clearly, and people were spinning off the track constantly.

Raymond Anderson4 said:If they could manage it, why couldn't these guys? What kind of stupid opinion is that?

"Stupid opinion"?
I don't intend to sink to that level of discussion moving forward. I hope this is the last time you speak to someone like that. Let's stick to constructive, and more importantly, civil debate. 🙂

Now, regarding driving in the rain.

Twenty or thirty years ago, cars had inferior tires, aerodynamics were far less efficient, and drivers had to manually control things like throttle butterflies with their right foot. They used basic manual gearboxes and standard clutches. Back then, the cars were brutal machines that demanded absolute mental and physical commitment from the driver. Helmets were simple plastic shells with basic visors, and track drainage was... well, a rather abstract concept at best.

And yet...

Look at the facts: those drivers actually managed those machines under those exact conditions.

Someone clearly had a few too many drinks—was the rain somehow lighter back then? 🙂

placidsurfer9 said:Alonso deserves to take the title this season 🙂

Honestly, I’d probably hand it to him myself, just if he’d stop whining for five minutes. Such a crybaby.

Can anyone point me toward a race from the 70s where the conditions were roughly similar to what we’re seeing today?

I might have watched races like this back then, but honestly, my memory is failing me. If I can find one to watch, I'll be able to
weigh in on the debate about how things used to be versus how they are now—specifically whether drivers really were "superhumans" back in the day compared
to the current crop.

CBS gave a solid explanation, but the truth is the teams just don't want to drive in the rain.
It’s not like they can't just pick up their cars and fix the wet track issue themselves—it's just that they don't want to.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for some news about Alonso getting penalized.🤷
Who even is this kid, and since when is it okay to set a Q3 time under yellow flags???
Button gets knocked out in the First Qualifying Session because of a yellow flag caused by a car spinning off right after the start-finish line, meanwhile Alonso sets his fastest lap in the Second Qualifying Session and nobody says a word.😕

What kind of joke is this? What on earth is the FIA doing?🙄

"I wasn't hitting any green sectors on that lap," Alonso mentioned. "I just backed off a bit in the section where they were pulling the car away."

☕

stormybadger8 said:So, I still haven't seen any actual news about whether Alonso gets penalized or anything, which is kind of wild if you think about it.🤷
I mean, who even is this kid, and since when was it okay to set a time for the Third Qualifying Session while there's a yellow flag out?
Button gets knocked out of the First Qualifying Session because of a yellow flag caused by a car spinning off right after the start-finish line, meanwhile Alonso just cruises through his fastest lap in the Second Qualifying Session like absolutely nothing happened.😕
Seriously, what kind of joke is this, and what on earth is the FIA even doing lately?🙄

Hah, good question. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the bureaucrats over at the Propeti headquarters come up with some incredibly creative excuse that the FIA will just rubber-stamp without a second thought.
😁

stormybadger8 said:CBS gave a solid breakdown on this, basically the teams just don't want to drive in the rain.
It’s super easy for them to just pull the car off and solve the wet track issue, they just choose not to.

Anyway, I still haven't seen any news about Alonso getting a penalty.🤷
Who even is this kid, and since when were you allowed to set a time for the Third Qualifying Session under yellow flags???
Button gets knocked out in the First Qualifying Session because of a yellow flag after someone spun out past the start-finish line, meanwhile Alonso sets his fastest lap in the Second Qualifying Session like nothing happened.😕

What kind of joke is this? What is the FIA even doing?🙄

They explained it pretty clearly on CBS. You can technically set a personal best during a yellow flag, but you can't set it within the specific sector where the yellow is active. Alonso lost a ton of time in the final sector—or like they said on CBS, he didn't have a green sector, which means he slowed down. So there's really nothing to argue about. If anything, people were just surprised Button didn't pull the same move.

There’s no need to dwell on the past quite this much.

Take the 1996 US Grand Prix, for example.
I'm sure you can find it easily enough on YouTube or similar sites.

Once you find the race, take note of how many times they threw up the red flag.

Last year's US Grand Prix was the turning point. After that, the FIA, FOM, and the TV production crews basically realized they could stop the race whenever they felt like it, knowing the masses watching at home would forget it all happened by the next morning.

Just look back at the comments on this forum from that time.
At first, everyone was absolutely tearing into Charlie and Bernie, making every joke imaginable... only for that 2011 US Grand Prix to be hailed as one of the greatest races in history just an hour or two later.

Don't worry, though. The "clueless" drivers—aka the Formula 1 grid—have realized they don't actually need to risk spinning out or embarrassing themselves in front of a global audience. So now, we get the constant complaints about the track being like a lake or having zero visibility. It's always some apocalyptic drama.

It all started with last year's US Grand Prix, but I doubt it'll end with this year's United Kingdom Grand Prix.
Expect more red flags due to rain.

The absolute pinnacle of motorsport! 🙂

Douglas Parker61 said:That’s what they told you on CBS. You can set a personal best under a yellow flag, just not in the specific sector where the flag is out. Alonso lost a ton of time in the final sector—or, as CBS put it, he didn't get a green sector, which basically means he slowed down. Nothing controversial there. If anything, they were surprised Jenson Button didn't run into the same issue.

Yeah, right.🤣
Saying someone slowed down just because they didn't hit a green sector? Please.🤣
Real proof that a driver slowed down comes from looking at the telemetry, not some color-coded sector chart.

Douglas Parker61 said:So, the folks over at CBS gave you the rundown. Basically, when there’s a yellow flag, you can set a personal best, but you aren't allowed to set the fastest lap in that specific sector. It looks like Alonso lost a ton of time in the final sector—or, as they put it on CBS, he missed out on a green sector, which pretty much means he had to slow down. So, I don't see anything controversial about it. If anything, they seemed more surprised that Jenson Button didn't run into the same issue.

He slowed down just enough that he'd miss the next lap by a hundredth of a second. Otherwise, he probably would've absolutely smashed the track record. Yeah.
😁😁