PDF Law - communication etiquette warnings

Michael Vaughn2 · 2012-07-05T11:21:51+00:00

Hey everyone, I wanted to lodge a complaint regarding a moderator... I know this isn't technically about the rulebook, but I figured I’d just drop it here rath…

amberdriver17 Member

10 messages
joined May 2012

#21 · Jul 5, 2012

Michael Vaughn2 is spot on—the guy who sent that private message needs to just apologize instead of acting like he’s Cacic. Saying "you're acting stupid" is straight-up an insult, so that whole "if I offended you" bit is just nonsense.
Is it really that hard to just be honest, apologize, and admit that communicating like that doesn't fly on this forum? I’m rooting for the mods to lead by example here—show us how to actually de-escalate things so we can all see why those rules exist in the first place. 😉

Nicholas King Regular

716 messages
joined Jan 2023

#22 · Jul 5, 2012

amberdriver17 said:Saying someone is "acting stupid" counts as an insult

I mean, what exactly makes the phrase "you're acting stupid" offensive? 😕

amberdriver17 Member

10 messages
joined May 2012

#23 · Jul 5, 2012

Nicholas King said:What's actually offensive about saying "you're acting clueless"? It’s basically just calling someone out for playing dumb—like they're pretending they don't get what's going on just to dodge responsibility or act superior. It hits that nerve where you're essentially telling someone, "Stop being fake; we both know you know exactly what's happening." Simple as that. 😕

So, someone’s calling me an idiot now—and getting off on blaming me for the whole mess themselves. Real classy.

I don't get why the mods feel the need to be so rude—like, you have all those tools at your disposal, so what's the point of being such jerks?
Is this just how they show off when they get a taste of power?
The "Cacic syndrome"? Seriously?

crimsonsailor7 Active Member

214 messages
joined May 2010

#24 · Jul 5, 2012

You completely missed the mark on the whole football thing...

Nicholas King Regular

716 messages
joined Jan 2023

#25 · Jul 6, 2012

amberdriver17 said:So, someone gets called stupid, and then they go ahead and blame themselves for it.

🤦

You clearly don't grasp the actual definition of "playing dumb"—which is quite the opposite of what you're claiming here. It’s a term we use when we feel someone doesn't consider themselves to be acting foolishly, even though they are intentionally feigning ignorance just to dodge whatever it is we're trying to tell them.

amberdriver17 Member

10 messages
joined May 2012

#26 · Jul 6, 2012

Nicholas King said:🤦

You clearly have zero clue what I mean by "playing dumb"—it’s actually the exact opposite of what you think. It's what we say when we feel someone doesn't count as being clueless, because they're intentionally acting like they don't get what we're telling them.

So, "intentionally stupid"?
What did I even write?
When we call someone out like that, we're labeling them as clueless and blaming them for making themselves look that way—where's the misunderstanding in that?
Are we calling him clueless?
- Yeah.
Are we blaming him for acting like it?
- Yeah.
That's just not how grown-ups or serious people talk. Honestly, I still don't get why any moderator would even resort to that kind of communication when they have every other tool at their disposal—unless it's just pure arrogance and ignoring the rules.
Look at that other thread (the zalba against a moderator), where a mod basically tells a user "shut it"—that's the same thing: arrogance and total disregard for the rules.

Nicholas King Regular

716 messages
joined Jan 2023

#27 · Jul 6, 2012

amberdriver17 said:We call someone foolish and then blame them for it—where exactly is the misunderstanding in that logic?

I’m only teaching if there’s serious money involved...

If you're looking to be shamed, just say the word. Otherwise, maybe—and I mean this as a genuine suggestion—you could actually think about the semantics here. For instance, do we consider someone "dead" just because they're "playing dead"? Or, better yet, you could go ask some folks in the social science departments at a major university—they have groups over there who basically eat people alive when it comes to linguistic nitpicking (and no, that isn't an insult—I'm not suggesting they're actual cannibals or anything like 😬).

amberdriver17 Member

10 messages
joined May 2012

#28 · Jul 6, 2012

Nicholas King said:I only give lessons when there's serious money involved...

If you're just looking to be a jerk, go ahead. Otherwise, maybe think about this—do we actually call someone smart if they're "acting smart"? Do we call someone dead if they're "playing dead"? Or, better yet, why don't you go ask some experts in social science or whatever—there's a whole crowd over there who'll tear you apart over grammar and semantics (and no, that's not an insult—I'm not calling them cannibals or anything 😬).

Who even asked you for a lesson? From what I can tell, you're out here doing it uninvited and for free.
Obviously, we consider someone smart when they're "acting smart," and honestly, their "smartness" just gets on our nerves.
For example, right now, you're "acting smart" toward me. And that little jab about checking with social science? That came straight from your "acting smart" routine. 😁
But at the same time, you're also "acting stupid" because it's pretty clear you're just trying to justify being insulting. 😁

Jose White18 Member

45 messages
joined Dec 2010

#29 · Jul 6, 2012

amberdriver17 said:But you’re just playing dumb to justify being insulting.😁

amberdriver17 said:Saying "you're acting stupid" is an insult, so your "if" regarding whether you insulted me is pointless.
Is it really that hard to just admit that this way of communicating doesn't belong on this forum?

So, when are you planning to apologize to Nicholas King for insulting him?

Nicholas King Regular

716 messages
joined Jan 2023

#30 · Jul 6, 2012

Is the sentence 'you're NOT acting silly' actually an insult?

amberdriver17 Member

10 messages
joined May 2012

#31 · Jul 6, 2012

Jose White18 said:So, when are you planning on apologizing to Nicholas King for insulting him?

Never. Because I didn't even insult him. I put the insult in quotes—it's clearly set apart. Is that not obvious enough?

Nicholas King said:Is the sentence 'you're NOT acting stupid' an insult?

Hold up—who’s teaching who here? We have a real situation at hand, and I don't see any need for this made-up drama.
I doubt any judge in the U.S. would let this kind of behavior fly in a courtroom—and honestly, no serious adult would engage in it either, because it just turns everything into a petty personal spat and drags the other person down.
It's the same logic as saying "stop whining"—that's not an insult, even if it implies someone is being dramatic.

This is just the moderators acting arrogant, nothing more.

Daniel Ward87 Active Member

195 messages
joined May 2023

#32 · Jul 7, 2012

Michael Vaughn2 said:Hey, I want to file a zalba regarding a moderator. Instead of starting a whole new thread, I’ll just drop it here, even if it’s not about the scoreboard.

The moderator "crimsonsailor7" sent me this in a PM:

"You can play dumb all you want and keep using those examples..."

It’s not a huge deal, but just two posts before that, I didn't even get a warning—not a strike, just a heads-up—telling me my tone was off.

The reason given for my "tone" was basically this, verbatim:
"Using phrases like: come on, prove it, I'm listening..., write something once you actually have experience, be specific, etc."

So, I'm getting flagged for saying things like "come on, prove it" or "be specific," which are perfectly normal in a legal discussion where evidence matters,
yet the person flagging me gets to say "you're playing dumb."

There isn't a single slur in my messages, whereas calling someone "dumb" is straight-up an insult.

So now I'm wondering: did the moderator mess up? Or is it okay for people on this forum to say "stop playing dumb" without getting sanctioned, while being told "I'm listening, prove it" is against the rules?

Thanks,
M.

I don't really see telling someone "stop playing dumb" as an insult. crimsonsailor7 was right that you have to look at the context, and that's exactly what I'm doing here.

Looking at the facts, after warning you to fix your tone, crimsailor7 sent that PM calling you out for playing dumb. At most, I'd say she reacted poorly, but I wouldn't call it an insult. She definitely acted impulsively, though—which I totally get, because I catch myself doing the same thing a few times a day. It happens when you try to explain something simple and the other person acts like they have no clue.

Bottom line: I don't think there was any actual verbal abuse involved here.

Michael Vaughn2 said:Is it alright for a moderator to say "stop playing dumb," and can I use that phrase myself in the future without getting in trouble?

Is that clear enough? Thanks.

The question is crystal clear. From a basic politeness standpoint, I don't think saying "don't play dumb" is good practice. Honestly, nobody should be saying it to anyone. But if it does happen, we have to look at the context before deciding if it counts as an insult, just like crimsailor7 pointed out.

crimsonsailor7
Context is everything here, so you can't just label a word as "accepted" or "banned" without looking at how it's being used.

Plus, crimsonsailor7 already apologized, so I'm pretty sure we can just call it a day on this one.

crimsonsailor7 Active Member

214 messages
joined May 2010

#33 · Jul 7, 2012

Daniel Ward87 said:
Yeah, she totally snapped, I get that... though honestly, I kind of feel for her up to a certain point because I catch myself doing the exact same thing a few times a day. You know, those moments where you're trying to explain something clearly to someone and they just start playing dumb like they haven't a clue what you're talking about...

I should probably just add that Michael Vaughn2 and I actually went back and forth in a few PMs—not that I straight up told him he was playing dumb right out of the gate—where I was trying to walk him through what the mods were actually flagging as an issue, but he kept pivoting to totally different topics and bringing up examples that had absolutely nothing to do with what we were even discussing. It wasn't until after all that that I finally just said, "You can play dumb all you want and keep throwing irrelevant examples at me, but the warning isn't going anywhere." So, it wasn't really about being insulting, it was more about telling him to stop wasting everyone's time and actually take what I'm saying seriously...

Daniel Ward87 Active Member

195 messages
joined May 2023

#34 · Jul 7, 2012

crimsonsailor7 said:I just wanted to add that Michael Vaughn2 and I exchanged a few private messages (not that I told him he was playing dumb right out of the gate) where I tried to walk him through what the mods were actually flagging. He kept pivoting to totally different points and bringing up examples that had nothing to do with the actual issue. Eventually, I had to say, "You can play dumb all you want and keep bringing up irrelevant stuff, but the warning isn't going anywhere." So, the goal wasn't to be insulting; I just wanted him to stop spinning his wheels and take the conversation seriously.

That makes total sense to me. That’s why I said there’s no way this counts as an insult.

crimsonsailor7 Active Member

214 messages
joined May 2010

#35 · Jul 7, 2012

Alright, thanks for listening 😁

amberdriver17 Member

10 messages
joined May 2012

#36 · Jul 8, 2012

It’s all well and good, but let’s try being a little more chill and empathetic toward the forum members—then we’ll all be happy, satisfied, and living in harmony. Cheers to context!

In the meantime, one question: What exactly did crimsonsailor7 do wrong if she wasn't even "valid"? Surely it wasn't just some typo or spelling error?

Daniel Ward87 Active Member

195 messages
joined May 2023

#37 · Jul 8, 2012

amberdriver17 said:It’s all great in theory, but let’s try to be a little more mindful and chill with one another here on the boards. If we do that, everyone stays happy and we can actually enjoy ourselves. Cheers to keeping things in context!

So, quick question before we move on: what did crimsonsailor7 actually do wrong if she wasn't breaking any rules? It wasn't her grammar, was it?

She messed up by letting certain things get under her skin.

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