Complaint regarding the religion subforum moderator (removing Christmas and the Pope)

So, the reality is that practically every culture throughout almost all of recorded history has celebrated a holiday dedicated to the sun and light during this season. I celebrate the federal holiday called Christmas exactly as it is because I personally find the symbolism quite compelling. Next year, I plan to start a dedicated thread for holiday cards covering all the different aspects of this season—just so no one accidentally feels slighted or offended...

Anthony Perez9 said:There isn't a direct link to New Year's (maybe just indirectly).

We're talking about the rebirth of the sun around the winter sunset—the solstice around December 21st.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice.

After three days and nights, the sun is reborn, meaning the days start getting longer again—it's the victory of the sun—Christmas—the birth of a young god. Christmas doesn't have to be strictly a Catholic date for celebration. 👍

Nicole James said:So, the reality is that practically every culture throughout almost all of recorded history has celebrated a holiday dedicated to the sun and light during this season. I celebrate the federal holiday called Christmas exactly as it is because I personally find the symbolism quite compelling. Next year, I plan to start a dedicated thread for holiday cards covering all the different aspects of this season—just so no one accidentally feels slighted or offended...

It feels almost absurd, doesn't it, to see people dismissing New Year's as the actual rebirth of the sun while simultaneously insisting that Christmas serves that exact purpose, though I suppose this isn't really the right place to get into such a deep debate anyway.

What really sits heavy on my heart is seeing all this celebration of pagan customs being pushed onto a subject that just doesn't feel appropriate for such a topic, don't you think?

It’s almost like living in a place like Pakistan and having your birthday fall right on December 25th, where someone comes up to you and offers their warmest wishes for Christmas, yet completely fails to acknowledge the actual day you were born. Doesn't it feel a bit strange when the holiday overshadows the individual? 😵

Well, it looks like Nicole James finally caught the error, so starting next year, you’ll be free to celebrate all your pagan holidays in the proper threads where they belong.

I am genuinely relieved that we were able to reach an understanding and find some common ground between us. 🙂

It’s about the sunrise occurring near the winter solstice—around December 21st.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice

With three days and three nights, the sun is essentially reborn, meaning the days start getting longer again—it's the triumph of the sun, which is Christmas, the birth of a young, minor god. Christmas doesn't have to be strictly a Catholic holiday.

The winter solstice falls on December 21st, though if you look at the link you provided, it says it can be a day earlier or later. Back in 2011, for instance, it actually fell on December 22nd.

So, what exactly does that have to do with Christmas or this specific topic?

Daniel Ward87 said:It's true that there isn't much connection to the Christmas we celebrate today. Also, while Sol Invictus isn't tied to Christ, as I mentioned in the link, the idea of bringing Christ closer to pagans by blending religious foundations is an old story—anyone with even a basic understanding of religion knows how that works. Okay, I get that this is a bit off-topic for a holiday greeting thread, but I just wanted to clarify that there was no intentional trolling going on here.

One thing is for sure: Nicole James wasn't trying to be provocative, believe me. However, I suggested keeping the Christmas greetings and similar stuff to a more basic level just to avoid any unnecessary drama.

To some people, it might look like a provocation, considering how the topic is framed and since this specific section on the site is labeled as the religion forum for Catholics/Christians, the holiday greeting thread, rather than being part of something like the Alternative or Spirituality sections.

If he wasn't provoking, as you claim (and I'll certainly accept that possibility), then who exactly was he greeting and for what? On this thread, people are celebrating the feast of the birth of Jesus... that's exactly my point.

If Nicole James personally celebrates the day of the sun god or follows a cult that observes something on December 21st or whenever—that's her personal business and no one is judging her—but really, should she be posting a massive wall of English text that most people here won't even understand, which also has nothing to do with the actual topic? It's more likely that, as mistyjackal14 pointed out, other forum members would simply get a warning or have their posts deleted immediately... etc., etc.

Regarding the last point in bold, thanks for understanding and for the effort; it seems you truly grasp what we're discussing here.

mistyjackal14 said:It feels almost absurd, doesn't it, to see people dismissing New Year's as the actual rebirth of the sun while simultaneously insisting that Christmas serves that exact purpose, though I suppose this isn't really the right place to get into such a deep debate anyway.

What really sits heavy on my heart is seeing all this celebration of pagan customs being pushed onto a subject that just doesn't feel appropriate for such a topic, don't you think?

It’s almost like living in a place like Pakistan and having your birthday fall right on December 25th, where someone comes up to you and offers their warmest wishes for Christmas, yet completely fails to acknowledge the actual day you were born. Doesn't it feel a bit strange when the holiday overshadows the individual? 😵

Well, it looks like Nicole James finally caught the error, so starting next year, you’ll be free to celebrate all your pagan holidays in the proper threads where they belong.

I am genuinely relieved that we were able to reach an understanding and find some common ground between us. 🙂

I think you misread that. They’re opening a thread specifically so there’s zero doubt about people trying to provoke or mock others.

Even if Nicole James treated it like a federal holiday, they should still have a separate thread for those types. I mean, sure, it's the same day, but we aren't celebrating the same thing. It's kind of like if two kids, say Ivica and Marica, were both born on December 25th, but one lives in Miami and the other lives in El Paso, and you congratulate the kid in El Paso and claim it's basically the same as congratulating the one in Miami just because the date matches. Doesn't really track.

Then there’s his post in English, which is apparently against the rules.

If you quote or link to text in a foreign language, you have to provide an American translation. For longer pieces, you don't need a word-for-word breakdown, but a summary covering the essential points for the discussion is mandatory.

Of course, whenever he pops up, you get all these other types who just feel this irresistible urge to stir the pot on a simple topic—something that probably should just be a handful of posts saying "Merry Christmas" and moving on.

Some people actually enjoy talking about religion and having real discussions with anyone, but man, it's exhausting when "sponsored" spammers show up on every single thread. I report them constantly, whether they're religious or not, but they just get left alone to do their thing until the people who actually wanted to discuss the topic eventually give up. Bit by bit, everyone stops posting anything meaningful. Everything just turns into bickering with spammers and trolls.

Nicole James said:So, the reality is that practically every culture throughout almost all of recorded history has celebrated a holiday dedicated to the sun and light during this season. I celebrate the federal holiday called Christmas exactly as it is because I personally find the symbolism quite compelling. Next year, I plan to start a dedicated thread for holiday cards covering all the different aspects of this season—just so no one accidentally feels slighted or offended...

It wasn't really "all cultures," but more like pre-Christian paganism celebrated something similar. Nowadays, most people just celebrate December 25th as Christmas and nothing else, and let's be honest, pagan holidays don't necessarily fall on the same dates as Christian ones, nor are they even called by the same names, right?

Also, the Spirituality section was separated from the main Religion section, much like how there's a separate Magic and Mysticism area where people with non-religious beliefs can write about various topics since that's the space provided for them.

Why exactly would you want to open a thread like that in the Religion section, which—given its name—is primarily intended for religious folks and interfaith dialogue? If there are specific sub-forums for this kind of thing, please explain. Would a thread about Christmas meant for those who actually celebrate it really bother you?

Susan Price30 said:

It’s about the sunrise occurring near the winter solstice—around December 21st.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice

With three days and three nights, the sun is essentially reborn, meaning the days start getting longer again—it's the triumph of the sun, which is Christmas, the birth of a young, minor god. Christmas doesn't have to be strictly a Catholic holiday.

The winter solstice falls on December 21st, though if you look at the link you provided, it says it can be a day earlier or later. Back in 2011, for instance, it actually fell on December 22nd.

So, what exactly does that have to do with Christmas or this specific topic?

The winter solstice hits on 12/21, but if you check that link you posted, it says it can shift a day early or late. Back in 2011, it actually fell on December 22nd.[/I]

Exactly. You take those three days and three nights (God hanging out in the dark underworld) starting from 12/22, and boom—you get Christmas, right when the days finally start stretching out. Christmas is born.

Don't worry about thanking me for the deep dive.

So what does any of this actually have to do with Christmas or this thread?

Just the other day on Catholic Radio, one of your priests mentioned that Christians didn't want to scrap all the old traditions, so they just folded the solstice celebrations into Christmas. It wasn't even because Jesus was born then.

There. Now you see the connection. 🙂

The link you provided doesn't mention anything about adding three days or three nights, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you want, go ahead and post a link that actually says that so we can take a look...

As for the last point—once Catholic Radio breaks the news and the Pope himself confirms it, then it's official. 😁 Until then, should we really just believe whatever anyone happens to say or write? To put it another way: anyone is free to claim whatever they want, but in this case, we have to stick to the official stance of the Catholic Church, right?

Anthony Perez9 said:The winter solstice hits on 12/21, but if you check that link you posted, it says it can shift a day early or late. Back in 2011, it actually fell on December 22nd.[/I]

Exactly. You take those three days and three nights (God hanging out in the dark underworld) starting from 12/22, and boom—you get Christmas, right when the days finally start stretching out. Christmas is born.

Don't worry about thanking me for the deep dive.

So what does any of this actually have to do with Christmas or this thread?

Just the other day on Catholic Radio, one of your priests mentioned that Christians didn't want to scrap all the old traditions, so they just folded the solstice celebrations into Christmas. It wasn't even because Jesus was born then.

There. Now you see the connection. 🙂

It’s connected, I guess, but back then they weren't celebrating that specific holiday—it was Christmas, and everyone knew exactly which kind of Christmas they meant. We can probably just assume that on January 7th, there'll be that same intense urge to celebrate the sun, since that's basically when the sun was honored around that time. The Gregorian calendar basically skipped some days just to fix things up and make sure we didn't drift too far off.

So, if you're looking at those old celebrations, the Julian calendar is probably more accurate. 😉

Timothy Robinson2 said:It’s connected, I guess, but back then they weren't celebrating that specific holiday—it was Christmas, and everyone knew exactly which kind of Christmas they meant. We can probably just assume that on January 7th, there'll be that same intense urge to celebrate the sun, since that's basically when the sun was honored around that time. The Gregorian calendar basically skipped some days just to fix things up and make sure we didn't drift too far off.

So, if you're looking at those old celebrations, the Julian calendar is probably more accurate. 😉

Nah. They're completely clueless when it comes to the whole solstice thing. 😉

Back in 46 BCE, Julius Caesar set up his Julian calendar and pinned December 25th as the date for the winter solstice in America (Latin: Bruma).

The winter solstice is basically when the days start getting longer again, though it feels like the darkness lasts forever. It’s that turning point where we finally stop sliding toward the bottom of the pit.

So, basically, Julius Caesar set December 25th as the winter solstice date back in 46 BCE.

Anthony Perez9 said:Nah. They're completely clueless when it comes to the whole solstice thing. 😉

The winter solstice is basically when the days start getting longer again, though it feels like the darkness lasts forever. It’s that turning point where we finally stop sliding toward the bottom of the pit.

So, basically, Julius Caesar set December 25th as the winter solstice date back in 46 BCE.

Yeah, according to the Julian calendar. I guess there's no real reason to follow the pope's calls.

Basically, Orthodox Christmas was just the Julian Christmas converted over to the Gregorian calendar. So, that sun celebration you're talking about would actually fall after New Year's if you look at it through the lens of the pope Gregory XIII's
calendar.

Nicole James said:So, the reality is that practically every culture throughout almost all of recorded history has celebrated a holiday dedicated to the sun and light during this season. I celebrate the federal holiday called Christmas exactly as it is because I personally find the symbolism quite compelling. Next year, I plan to start a dedicated thread for holiday cards covering all the different aspects of this season—just so no one accidentally feels slighted or offended...

To be more precise, most cultures used to celebrate the winter solstice, which usually fell somewhere between December 20th and 23rd. And yeah, sure, it’s totally inappropriate to go around wishing people happy pagan festivals on a Christian thread.

Timothy Robinson2 said:I think you misread that. They’re opening a thread specifically so there’s zero doubt about people trying to provoke or mock others.

Even if Nicole James treated it like a federal holiday, they should still have a separate thread for those types. I mean, sure, it's the same day, but we aren't celebrating the same thing. It's kind of like if two kids, say Ivica and Marica, were both born on December 25th, but one lives in Miami and the other lives in El Paso, and you congratulate the kid in El Paso and claim it's basically the same as congratulating the one in Miami just because the date matches. Doesn't really track.

Then there’s his post in English, which is apparently against the rules.

If you quote or link to text in a foreign language, you have to provide an American translation. For longer pieces, you don't need a word-for-word breakdown, but a summary covering the essential points for the discussion is mandatory.

Of course, whenever he pops up, you get all these other types who just feel this irresistible urge to stir the pot on a simple topic—something that probably should just be a handful of posts saying "Merry Christmas" and moving on.

Some people actually enjoy talking about religion and having real discussions with anyone, but man, it's exhausting when "sponsored" spammers show up on every single thread. I report them constantly, whether they're religious or not, but they just get left alone to do their thing until the people who actually wanted to discuss the topic eventually give up. Bit by bit, everyone stops posting anything meaningful. Everything just turns into bickering with spammers and trolls.

Honestly, if someone can't just say two words— Merry Christmas & mean it regardless of what faith or ideology they follow, then to me, that feels pretty extreme and bizarre...

Then again, we used to have a mod there (who was eventually replaced) who would constantly spam links and calls for people (including Christians) to convert to Islam, using the moderation tools for his own personal agenda. So, looking back, nothing about this seems particularly surprising...

link

mistyjackal14 said:I really wanted to take a moment to give a shout-out to the admins over at the Religion sub-forum, not just because they allowed us to go ahead with celebrating Christmas this year, but because they actually took the initiative to get things moving (@Brenda Cook4).

The real issue, however, seems to have shifted up a notch toward the moderation team. You see, while the thread itself proceeded quite smoothly with everyone showing mutual respect, one moderator (who also happens to be an admin on the Religion board) decided to start trolling, flame wars, and dumping endless litanies written in English*
For the first time ever, I actually found myself using that little traffic sign icon down in the corner, though I’m well aware it isn’t particularly effective against reds.🙂

I managed to successfully ignore the post, but a few trolls and flamers did gather to back up the moderator.

Perhaps any given religion, or even anti-religion, has intolerance baked right into its foundation, which leads to this strange paradox where, in the name of tolerance, one must permit their very intolerance and provocations—but honestly, those are getting into some pretty heavy, sophistic philosophical territory.

Anyway, I'll offer my thanks to the admins once more, because if I’m going to offer criticism, I believe it’s only fair to offer praise as well, all while holding onto the hope and understanding that things might improve even more next year; I realize that normalcy doesn't just happen overnight, and you can't force change through the hierarchy.

*It might sound a bit silly to people from other sub-forums when I mention relying on untranslated text, but on the Religion board, that is strictly monitored, and I've personally been handed warnings for poor translations, even by that very same moderator.

It’s unbelievable.

And that post from the supermod is still sitting there on the thread, probably acting as a "perfect example" of how one should offer greetings.

To make matters worse, the admin Daniel Ward87 is actually trying to justify it all, convincing forum members that the supermod Nicole James isn't trolling (even though it looks like the supermod and their crew are laughing at him behind his back).🤣 🙏

It's a total disaster.

Honestly, thank goodness zgsash is gone; if it wasn't for other reasons, then at least it's because they were appointing supermods like this.

An absolute mess.

On all the other PDFs on this forum, during "those days," you can start a thread to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year without any drama or incidents at all... except for on the main religion PDF... 🙏

Morgan Rodriguez57 makes a valid point. Even on sites like Politico, which aren't specifically centered around these holidays, moderators allow people to open these discussions, offer greetings, and chat freely without any friction or censorship. On those platforms—where the mods are consistently top-tier—religious topics pass through without issue. It’s only on this specific sub-forum dedicated to believers (since everyone else has their own specialized spaces) that we see blatant suppression against believers.

Those in the loop already see it, and we all know what's happening. Perhaps it should be emphasized once more, just in case it escaped Anderlon's notice... It might also be worth considering why so many religious users have stopped posting here (whether by choice or otherwise). For instance, the Muslim community made a conscious, collective decision to withdraw entirely—I believe they even appointed a specific moderator afterward to fix things, but unfortunately, that didn't help either. As for Christians, there's hardly anyone left, even though just a year or two ago, the numbers were huge. And I'm not talking about random trolls; I mean priests, theologians, and truly wonderful contributors who were a joy to read. So, the logical question remains: why?

Why? Well, that’s just how the forum rules work... honestly, this whole PDF religion thing feels like a direct reflection of a mindset where regular believers are constantly being labeled as fanatics... I wonder if it's actually possible to teach the owner to be a little more compassionate toward faith? I mean, I really doubt it...

Daniel Ward87 said:It's true that there isn't much connection to the Christmas we celebrate today. Also, while Sol Invictus isn't tied to Christ, as I mentioned in the link, the idea of bringing Christ closer to pagans by blending religious foundations is an old story—anyone with even a basic understanding of religion knows how that works. Okay, I get that this is a bit off-topic for a holiday greeting thread, but I just wanted to clarify that there was no intentional trolling going on here.

One thing is for sure: Nicole James wasn't trying to be provocative, believe me. However, I suggested keeping the Christmas greetings and similar stuff to a more basic level just to avoid any unnecessary drama.

And how exactly did you reach such a definitive conclusion? 😕

Walking into a thread dedicated to wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and immediately pivoting to celebrating the day of the Sun or whatever else—well, it’s basically rewriting someone else's playbook, even if they stay silent about it. I mean, someone could have just as easily decided to wish people a happy birthday for Humphrey Bogart instead. People don't celebrate a random date; they don't celebrate December 25th just for the sake of the calendar, they celebrate Christmas—Jesus' birth and all that jazz. It's meant to be a gesture of goodwill toward everyone.

Is it really that difficult—or perhaps just too unbearable—to let them enjoy their greetings in peace, without poking fun at them from behind the safety of a red username paired with a purple "he definitely wasn't provoking anyone" backup? Does one always have to demonstrate Nicole James's greatness everywhere, making sure to show that I (blah, blah, blah) am out here celebrating something entirely different?

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:Why? Well, that’s just how the forum rules work... honestly, this whole PDF religion thing feels like a direct reflection of a mindset where regular believers are constantly being labeled as fanatics... I wonder if it's actually possible to teach the owner to be a little more compassionate toward faith? I mean, I really doubt it...

No, the real question is whether it’s necessary. Anderlon can easily view believers as borderline psychopaths if he wants, but as the owner of this Forum, I assume it’s in his best interest to make every corner of this place a pleasant, well-moderated space for people who just came here to spend a bit of their free time. If that's the goal, then yes, there is a clear interest in setting those standards from the jump. Looking at the state of things here, it’s obvious that managing and civilizing discussions isn't exactly smooth sailing when people instead choose to ramp up tensions while simultaneously breaking the forum rules (!) on the most banal, everyday holiday threads.

And since we’re already tearing into things, let's be real: one particular user once got flagged and turned bright red on the very PDF they were supposed to be moderating, simply because they couldn't keep their own antagonisms under control. But even keeping that in mind, all this ranting is pointless. Some old lady complaining about cookies—nobody gains anything now by retroactively handing out a yellow card because someone wrote their post in English or engaged in obvious trolling meant to provoke hyper-pathetic reactions, which was clearly the intent. We could argue endlessly about how petty someone can be by refusing to even type "Merry Christmas" in the designated thread, or staying silent because the Christian Messiah gives them heartburn—but yeah, it’s all redundant. It’s proven that changing the discourse on this Forum doesn't happen without the head honcho getting a serious earful. Good luck with that. Honestly, it surprises me that anyone still has the willpower to read the Religion section; you people are absolute folk heroes.

Merry Christmas (I mean the season, not the day). 🙂

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:On all the other PDFs on this forum, during "those days," you can start a thread to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year without any drama or incidents at all... except for on the main religion PDF... 🙏

It’s sad, but that's the reality. 😁

Richard James2 said:No, the real question is whether it’s necessary. Anderlon can easily view believers as borderline psychopaths if he wants, but as the owner of this Forum, I assume it’s in his best interest to make every corner of this place a pleasant, well-moderated space for people who just came here to spend a bit of their free time. If that's the goal, then yes, there is a clear interest in setting those standards from the jump. Looking at the state of things here, it’s obvious that managing and civilizing discussions isn't exactly smooth sailing when people instead choose to ramp up tensions while simultaneously breaking the forum rules (!) on the most banal, everyday holiday threads.

And since we’re already tearing into things, let's be real: one particular user once got flagged and turned bright red on the very PDF they were supposed to be moderating, simply because they couldn't keep their own antagonisms under control. But even keeping that in mind, all this ranting is pointless. Some old lady complaining about cookies—nobody gains anything now by retroactively handing out a yellow card because someone wrote their post in English or engaged in obvious trolling meant to provoke hyper-pathetic reactions, which was clearly the intent. We could argue endlessly about how petty someone can be by refusing to even type "Merry Christmas" in the designated thread, or staying silent because the Christian Messiah gives them heartburn—but yeah, it’s all redundant. It’s proven that changing the discourse on this Forum doesn't happen without the head honcho getting a serious earful. Good luck with that. Honestly, it surprises me that anyone still has the willpower to read the Religion section; you people are absolute folk heroes.

Merry Christmas (I mean the season, not the day). 🙂

There you have it.
If you aren't capable (not that it's much of a stretch) of offering a greeting, at least don't troll.