Handball World Cup: USA vs. Poland (28-24)

Grace Adams32 said:Do you really have to nitpick every single word? You’re obsessing over the most insignificant detail possible. What I was actually trying to say is that it’s incredibly pathetic to start dragging his character into this now—especially when everything was running like clockwork. At that point, questioning him was about as reasonable as complaining about gas prices jumping every two weeks.

Look, I never once claimed Balić's character was the core issue with our national team. That’s just one tiny piece of the friction. My only point—and I'll say it again—is that he isn't the only one acting divided here. Even as our biggest star, he carries a share of the responsibility for how things are playing out.

He’s got the vision for a coach; his sons just need a little push to get moving.

Michael Martinez86 said:I don't understand why you are judging me as being biased. Do I have any reason at all to be? What specific answer am I supposed to give you? You have fabricated some sort of conspiracy within the USA Handball Association and assigned roles however you pleased. Is that truly how things are, and where did you get the information for all these claims? I assume you have watched the games, followed media reports, and perhaps more than anything, read and participated in online forums. Even so, all of that is mostly just speculation. It is difficult to know anything about this firsthand. Only those directly involved in the inner workings surrounding the national team can reliably know how things actually stand.
The same applies to me. I watch, I follow, I read, and I listen. I draw conclusions. However, I do not pass judgment nor do I put on rose-colored glasses simply because I enjoy seeing things in that color.

First of all, by what right do you come at me calling me some girl obsessed with Ivano Balić and such? Do you even know me enough to attack me on a personal level? Have I attacked you on that level? I exchanged opinions with you, and you responded by invading my privacy, clearly because you had nothing else to say. I am old enough and have a life established enough that you should not be insulting or evaluating me based on three posts.

I haven't fabricated anything, I haven't. How and why I make certain claims is my business—whether I choose to share them on this forum or not. If you are unable to exchange opinions civilly, learn to control yourself and stop making personal attacks. Especially on a forum, and especially based on only three posts.

Michael Martinez86 said:But I never actually claimed that Balić's personality was the core issue with our national team. That might just be one small part of the friction. My point is simply that he isn't the only one affected by everything going on, and as the star player, he bears some share of the responsibility.

Maybe Balić carries 5% of the blame, just like Laco, Vori, and the younger guys. One guy can't win an entire game by himself, nor should he be the one worrying about how everyone else is executing various tactics. Honestly, I think he had every right to snap. And to top it all off, you have the gray eminence hovering around while Goluža just sits there in silence. In the end, they made it look like Balić is entirely at fault, as if he was supposed to prepare the players, design the strategy, and play perfectly every single game. I guess I'm just not sure what Goluža's role even is. Maybe he just sits on the bench while a masseur works on his neck and head. Poor guy probably got too tired from all that thinking.

Are you playing dumb or something? You haven't once pointed to his character as the problem. Don't make me sit here and list out three or four sentences of yours that completely contradict each other.

Michael Martinez86 said:But I never actually claimed that Balić's personality was the core issue facing our national team. That’s really just one small piece of the friction we're seeing. My main point is simply that he isn't the only one caught up in this mess, and as the star player on the roster, he does bear some responsibility for how things are playing out...

Others certainly have, and I made sure to give them a response. You ended up quoting me later and just zeroing in on the most insignificant parts of what I said. Nevermind...

Rachel Gomez81 said:First off—who gave you the right to call me some little girl obsessed with Ivano Balić? Do you even know me? You don't—so why are you attacking my character personally? I haven't once gone after you on a personal level. We were exchanging opinions, period. Instead of actually debating the topic, you decided to dive into my private life because clearly, you had nothing else to say. I have enough years under my belt and a full life behind me that I don't need some stranger judging who I am based on three measly posts.

I didn't make anything up. What I believe and whether I choose to share those views here is entirely my business. If you can't handle a simple exchange of ideas, learn some self-control and stop making things personal. Especially not on a public forum based on just three posts.

I poked fun at that "little girl in love" bit because your blind devotion to your idol was just so painfully obvious. I honestly never imagined you'd lose your mind over it. My apologies.

Michael Martinez86 said:Ivano Balić was never some legendary hero or a king among men. He certainly wasn't the greatest icon our people ever produced. At the end of the day, he was just a damn good handball player.

He will always be a son of the homeland, regardless of the circumstances.

Unlike certain... compliant individuals.

Michael Martinez86 said:I was teasing you a bit regarding that "young girl's infatuation," mainly because your lack of critical thinking toward an icon seemed so transparent. I never imagined you would actually "lose it" over it. My apologies.

Apology accepted. 🙂 Quite simply, I see no purpose in arguing at that level. Or arguing at all. 🤷

It wasn't just about being called a young girl; it's that such comments intrude upon a personal sphere, which I believe is unnecessary here.

I am not uncritical; if you had read the posts on the Šve forum, you would know that. He isn't my idol. I merely hold him in high regard—as well as everything he has done for American handball over the last eight years, and for the other players he helped transition out of the national team.

Susan Ward23 said:I'd say Balić carries about 5% of the blame here—and that goes for Laco, Vori, and the younger guys too. It’s not like Balić can just carry an entire game on his back single-handedly, nor is it his job to be stressing over everyone else's tactical execution. Honestly, the guy had every right to blow a fuse. And then, to top it all off, you have the gray eminence hovering around while Goluža just sits there acting like he's struck dumb. In the end, they act like it’s all Balić's fault—as if he was supposed to prep the roster, design the tactics, AND play out of his mind every single game. I have to wonder what Goluža’s actual role is. Probably just sitting on the bench while some masseur works on his neck and head. Poor guy—must be exhausted from all that "thinking."

Are you playing dumb, or is this actually for real? You didn't mention his temperament being an issue even once. Don't make me sit here and quote three or four sentences of yours that completely contradict each other.

It’s not a core issue regarding the national team's performance, but it certainly doesn't help the toxic atmosphere currently hanging over the squad.

Michael Martinez86 said:It’s not necessarily the core issue facing the national team, but it certainly doesn't help the toxic atmosphere currently hanging over everything.

A real coach should be able to handle any player in the locker room. Period.

Everything you need to know is right here:

http://www.forbes.com/article/politics-and-puppets/50002/...ca-and-marionette

🙂

Susan Ward23 said:A real coach knows how to handle any player. Period.

Sure—but let's be real. If there was friction between Goluža and Balić, or if the tension between Červar and Balić was actually a thing—not to mention those rumors about Balić refusing to play for the national team under certain leadership because he wasn't the undisputed #1 back then—then we have to face facts. There’s clearly something to be said about his difficult personality.

Rachel Gomez81 said:That’s exactly right. I suppose that might be one reason why Goluža reacted so poorly. He was playing for that "sacred jersey" the patriot mentioned on the front pages, playing for his teammates, and ultimately, for us.

He did the same thing when he was playing through literal back injuries and extreme pain. But then again, maybe we're talking about the same Ivano Balić—a decent guy, but perhaps not at his best on the court?

I'm not sure if he'll even play for the national team anymore; I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Regardless of how you view him, Balić is ours. Whether he's being stubborn, argumentative, a prankster, or quiet and reserved—that's just who he is. I think we should accept him as such. He’s given us so much joy with his play, even if he could be a bit frustrating at times...
But we shouldn't forget one simple thing: whenever there was chaos or panic, all eyes turned to Ivan, and everyone expected a miracle from him.
He’s human, after all, so it's only natural that he makes mistakes. Maybe it's just because we aren't used to seeing him slip up, which makes his errors seem much larger than they actually are.
It seems like he's always either being scapegoated or put on a pedestal. That probably feels like a heavy burden, and I imagine it might be difficult to live with.
Still, I feel like people might be being a little too harsh on him right now. There might be more to the story behind how he's being treated. It's quite possible he could get provoked into walking away from everything entirely. If that happened, the only ones benefiting would be Chicago and Gobac, who wouldn't have to pay out the rest of his contract. Chicago has always lured players in with massive deals, only for Gobac and Kaleb to try and pull the rug out from under them. You only have to look back at what happened with Vori and Duvnjak.
As a Vice President of the USA Handball Association, Gobac really shouldn't have insulted and accused Balić so publicly. He could have handled it at practice, in the hotel, or in the locker room... anywhere except in front of the media during a championship. Even Balić has some self-respect left. I suppose it's a good thing he endured all that humiliation. Just look back at those training sessions in Makarska. While all the star players were with their overseas clubs, they called up a different group—mostly kids and an exhausted Balić. It felt almost as if he were some rookie still trying to prove himself. A few days off might have done him some good and helped soothe his ego. It sounds silly, but I guess that's just how Balić is.
Whatever happens, he's one of ours and he's done so much for American handball.

Dana Flores3 said:it’s all right here in black and white:

http://www.forbes.com/article/news-story-about-puppets-and-control/...ca-and-marionette

🙂

Unbelievable. Seriously, where on earth did you even find this?

Michael Martinez86 said:Sure, but if there was friction between Goluža and Balić, or if there were issues between Červar and Balić—and if it’s actually true that Balić supposedly turned down playing for the national team under the late Kljun because he wasn't quite ready to be the undisputed number one back then—then maybe there really is something to be said about his difficult personality?

Like I said, a real coach knows how to handle that kind of thing. Personally, I still think Goluža is the one to blame here. It's even worse considering he didn't make any effort to protect his player or take the heat himself.
Do you honestly think Omeyer doesn't have a difficult personality too? Do you think Balić is the only one? I'd bet anything that every single team has at least one player with an oversized ego who clashes with the coach. To everyone else, it probably doesn't seem like nearly as big of a deal as it does to us. Look, Balić isn't a saint, but it seems totally absurd to bring up his temperament now as if it were some excuse for this loss. It's not like Balić and Goluža suddenly became experts on each other yesterday. And it feels a bit silly to claim he shouldn't be anyone's idol just because people respect and defend him. He's prickly, we all know that. But his relationships with Červar, Goluža, and even the late Kljun (that comment he made really wasn't necessary) never stopped them from winning gold or making finals until now. I suspect the Olympics will be Balić's last appearance for the national team. If he decides to walk away sooner, after everything that's been said about him, I wouldn't blame him at all.

Gregory Ward said:Unbelievable. I mean, where on earth did you even find that?

this news is ancient history 😁

Kimberly Smith69 said:Gomez needs to be held accountable. Maybe he should be removed just to set an example for everyone else. I think people have had enough of the games being played with handball. The national team isn't Gomez's private playground, and blaming Ivan for everything... honestly, let's not take it that far.
I think Ivan is just an athlete. So what if he loses his cool occasionally?

I guess you shouldn't be so naive about "holding him accountable."
Gomez didn't just show up yesterday. He knows how to navigate any political landscape; he’s worked with both Democrats and Republicans, and he'll likely keep doing so. He's incredibly shrewd, which is probably why he’s stayed in the handball world for so long. As much as people might dislike him, I suppose we have to admit that his aggressive style is part of why the sport has seen success. He can be arrogant, sure, but sometimes that's just what it takes to get things done. It seems like people are finally reaching their breaking point with him, but I suspect he'll find a way to manage.
Remember how he announced he was leaving the Chicago team just a few months ago? Yeah, right.
What kind of accountability are we talking about? Only the board can actually replace him. And looking at how he's structured things, the board includes members from various political parties and big bankers. It feels like a third of them always back him, and the rest can usually be swayed.
It's unlikely. In this country, Gomez basically equals handball.

Andrew Gonzalez71 said:Regardless of his flaws, Balić is one of ours. Whether he’s being a provocateur, an agitator, quiet, or withdrawn—that’s just Balić. We have to accept him as he is. He has given us so much joy through his play, even if he knew exactly how to drive us crazy at times.
But we shouldn't overlook one simple fact: whenever there was chaos or panic, all eyes were on John, and everyone expected a miracle from him.
He is human, after all, and it is only natural that he makes mistakes. However, because we aren't used to him failing, those mistakes tend to look much larger and more severe than they actually are.
Furthermore, he will always be the one either crucified by the public or placed on a pedestal. That is likely a heavy burden to carry, and who knows how anyone manages to live with that pressure?
Still, I believe the criticism directed at him right now is a bit excessive. There is clearly a deeper narrative at play here. It is highly probable that he is being provoked to simply walk away from everything and leave it all behind. The only ones benefiting from that would be Chicago and Gomez, who wouldn't have to pay out the rest of his contract. Chicago has always lured players in with legendary contracts, only for Gomez and Caleb to try and pull the rug out from under them. Just look back at what happened with Vori and Duvnjak not too long ago.
As a Vice President of the federation, Gomez simply should not have insulted and accused Balić so publicly. He could have handled any of this during practice, at the hotel, in the locker room... anywhere, as long as it wasn't in front of the media during a championship. Even Balić has some self-respect left. It’s a good thing he endured all that humiliation. Think back to the training sessions in Makarska. While the main stars were playing for their clubs overseas, they called up a different group—some kids and an exhausted Balić. They treated him like some rookie who still needs to prove himself. A few days of rest would have done him good and kept his ego intact. It sounds ridiculous, but that's just the way Balić is.
Whatever his faults, he is ours and he has done a great deal for American handball.

I agree with everything said. That is exactly the point; can we really forget everything Balić has delivered for us, especially within a span of just three games, while everything seems orchestrated on Gomez's end? The same thing is being done to the other guys, except they can't screw over John until they first try to smear his reputation in the eyes of the public. As you noted, he is held to the highest standard, which means his mistakes hit the hardest.

I also agree regarding the contract. This situation was a perfect opportunity for that shark to turn things to his advantage. It isn't the first time Balić has missed a shot, nor is it the first time he's had a bad game. Is that really a reason to call him out publicly? This is likely just Gomez "learning" from old mistakes—specifically, what happened with Peter.

Some claim he isn't a superstar, just someone who is good at his job. Well, he isn't some novice that Gomez can drag through the media just to serve his own "business" interests either. Yes, it is good that he endured all this nonsense.

Michael Martinez86 said:Gomez is really something else entirely. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's pulling strings from the shadows, though. I was mostly just pointing out how intense and high-strung he can be. I guess that’s actually pretty common, maybe even a rule, for people who are exceptionally gifted and creative in any field. So, I'd never claim he's some mastermind behind the scenes or acting out of pure calculation.

I suppose if I were the greatest player in history and had the world's best shooters, the top right wing, and the finest pivot and defender all on my side, then someone stepped in and prevented us from conquering the world—even though we were clearly the most dominant squad ever—leaving us with nothing but silvers, bronzes, and semifinals instead of gold, I think I might lose my cool and start shouting at everyone publicly.

Maybe Dzomba, Peter, and Sprem should just have the authority to take matters into their own hands with Cervar and Gomez right in the middle of the city square. Honestly, Cervar was acting like a total clown, and if it weren't for a few things he said and did, he might have been handled differently. He went out and publicly blamed Sprem for that loss against France on our home turf, all while completely ignoring Dzomba. And since Gomez kicked Peter out, I feel like he's basically become the number one enemy of American handball.

It feels like they're all just a bunch of incompetent fools who have been ruining this team for years with their lack of skill, all while the biggest idiot of them all keeps terrorizing these players.

I guess Balica, Vori, Valcic, Zrnica, Alilovic, and Lackovic... maybe it would be better if you all just stepped away from the national team, because you haven't truly earned what you've been getting all these years. 🙏

Rachel Gomez81 said:I suppose I agree with everything here. That’s really the crux of it, isn't it? It feels like people might forget everything Balić achieved for us—even if he missed a shot or two—just because everything is being framed through Gomez's perspective. They seem to be doing the same thing to the other guys, though maybe they won't try to smear Ivanna until they've already damaged his reputation with the public. Since he's the one everyone expects the most from, I guess his mistakes tend to hit harder.

I also agree regarding the contract. This was probably the perfect moment for that opportunist to turn things to his advantage. It's not like Balić hasn't missed a shot before, or had an off night. I wonder, is that really a reason to call him out publicly? Maybe this is just Gomez trying to learn from old mistakes, specifically what happened with Peter.

Some people claim he isn't a superstar and that he's just decent at what he does. Well, he certainly isn't some amateur that Gomez can just parade around in the media for his own 'business' interests. He is talented, and he has certainly endured quite a bit of nonsense.

It seems like anyone paying attention can connect the dots and understand why Peter isn't playing in Chicago this year. He could actually really benefit from it for the Champions League. But I suspect Gomez never forgave him for when he slammed the locker room door in his face and barred him and others from the union from entering. I guess God forgives, but Gomez doesn't. He doesn't seem to forget. Many of our players aren't on the national team because they somehow offended or hurt Gomez. Everyone knows it, I suppose, but they stay quiet. Maybe they stay quiet out of fear, or perhaps they just know there's nothing to gain by speaking up.
It all seemed a bit silly to me when I read that Gomez was supposed to resign after the failure (which didn't actually happen, anyway). I mean, people can be quite naive sometimes. It reminds me a bit of how everyone is just waiting for Kalmeta to step down. 🙂))