Appeal regarding Shadyev's JL Karton

Gary Patel Active MemberOP

74 messages
joined Jul 2022

#1 · Feb 15, 2009

I originally started that thread over in the Religion sub-forum—not to call for a strike, a boycott, or any kind of long-term walkout from the site! My goal was actually pretty simple: I noticed a lot of theists complaining about non-religious users (usually because atheist posts pop up in the Religion section, even though they aren't religious themselves), so I just wanted to run a little social experiment. I wondered what the vibe would be like if, say, for one week, no atheists posted in the Religion sub-forum. How would the structure look? Would people still be complaining? To me, it seemed like a fun thought experiment—and honestly, two non-religious members even told me they’d happily participate (just for a week!). Well, apparently, my "experiment" earned me 35 points because the mods flagged it as a violation of the rules regarding calling for a boycott. I know the points aren't coming back, but rowdyhawk10 shut the thread down, telling me, "Gary Patel, stop with the fixed ideas."

Kenneth Peterson5 Active Member

124 messages
joined Nov 2007

#2 · Feb 15, 2009

Yeah, honestly? It’s a bummer that rowdyhawk10 shot down your idea like that.
It would be wild to see what happens if that actually took off—I mean, at least among us non-religious types—how much those debates over on the Religion board would blow up, and whether people might actually chill out and stop being so damn insulting to one another.

rowdyhawk10 Active Member

123 messages
joined Oct 2009

#3 · Feb 15, 2009

JL
I issued the JL Karton because topics like this don't belong on the Religion subforum. You probably could have started a thread over in the "Feedback and Suggestions" section instead. I sent you a private message explaining my reasoning, specifically regarding how you were essentially calling for a boycott by certain members. Even if that wasn't your intention, I suppose that's how it came across. You were effectively telling part of the community not to post in the Religion section. 🙂 Best regards,

Gary Patel Active MemberOP

74 messages
joined Jul 2022

#4 · Feb 15, 2009

rowdyhawk10 said:JL Karton
I issued the warning because topics like this just don't belong in the Religion subforum. You really should have started this over in "Feedback & Suggestions"—it would have been much cleaner. I sent you a private message explaining my reasoning, too—basically, it felt like you were encouraging a segment of our members to boycott the Religion section. Even if that wasn't your intention—and I get that it might not have been—that's how it came across. You were essentially telling people to stay away from the Religion board. 🙂 Best regards,

Honestly, though—was it really necessary to slap me with a 35-point penalty? Moving the thread to the Religion subforum would have solved everything instantly—simple as that!

steelskipper5 Active Member

176 messages
joined Feb 2010

#5 · Feb 15, 2009

Here’s yet another instance of moderation that I can only describe as straight-up idiotic.
A thread proposing a perfectly legitimate experiment gets slapped with a ban, while the guy who started this whole mess stays totally untouched.
Then you’ve got this troll thread—which doesn't even belong in the Religion section—hanging around for months because the mods just refuse to act on the endless complaints.

On one hand, they ignore blatant hate speech because maybe they’re afraid of misinterpreting it, or maybe they’re just too lazy to actually issue a permanent ban. On the other hand, they take something that clearly isn't breaking any rules and spin it as a call for a boycott, just because—I don't know—that's how they choose to see it.
Honestly, even after Mostly Harmless arrived, things haven't really improved much. The mods are mostly MIA, and when they finally decide to show up, they usually end up doing more harm than good. It reminds me of our local small-claims courts in cases of assault—where the penalties end up hitting the victims just as hard as the perpetrators.

Seriously, I’m asking for an explanation here. Why hasn't religious users constantly trying to drive atheists out of the Religion section ever been punished—not even with a little JL Karton for trolling? Yet, a much milder suggestion from an atheist gets hit with this kind of sanction. It drives me crazy—why is "atheists, leave the Religion section forever" considered fine, but "atheists, let's all take a break from the Religion section for a week" is a punishable offense?
I’m calling on the admins to weigh in on this. If I have to, I’ll dig up several examples of religious users attempting to exile atheists without ever receiving a single JL Karton, just to prove my point. But I’d really prefer a principled answer before I start going through posts one by one.

steelskipper5 Active Member

176 messages
joined Feb 2010

#6 · Feb 15, 2009

Plus, I just went through the entire rulebook again. I’m asking rowdyhawk10 to actually point out which specific rule in the Religion subforum my original post supposedly broke. I mean—if he felt the need to write up such a long explanation in a JL Karton, there’s gotta be something in the rules about it, right? Because I’ve looked, and I can't find anything.

Look, I'm not saying moderators don't have the authority to step in outside the literal rulebook, but you can't exactly cite a rule that doesn't exist.

Dennis Lewis6 Member

19 messages
joined Feb 2009

#7 · Feb 15, 2009

What, are you a lawyer now?

Gary Patel Active MemberOP

74 messages
joined Jul 2022

#8 · Feb 16, 2009

Right. Hypothesis, disposition, and sanction. One of those is missing—can you guess which one?
So, I’m asking that the JL Karton be lifted and my 35 points be restored.

steelskipper5 Active Member

176 messages
joined Feb 2010

#9 · Feb 16, 2009

Can we actually expect anyone to answer this?

rowdytinker Active Member

55 messages
joined Jan 2008

#10 · Feb 17, 2009

steelskipper5 said:Can we get anyone's input on this?

rowdyhawk10 needs to weigh in here. It's his call.👎

hollowtrucker77 Regular

681 messages
joined Nov 2007

#11 · Feb 18, 2009

rowdyhawk10 decided to opt out

steelskipper5 Active Member

176 messages
joined Feb 2010

#12 · Feb 18, 2009

hollowtrucker77 said:rowdyhawk10 decided to sit this one out.

rowdyhawk10 Nah. He’s out here complaining about why the thread got locked and why the author got slapped with a JL Karton. I mean, honestly—it’s kind of a joke, especially when you consider how they never say a word when people are basically hunting down atheists in the Religion section.

Look, the experiment is working—whatever. I’m not even bothering to jump into the debates anymore.
Honestly, I’m starting to think I shouldn't even bother going back. Religion—it just feels like it's going completely downhill every single day.

crimsonhound80 Active Member

175 messages
joined Mar 2008

#13 · Feb 19, 2009

Look, we aren't starting some brand-new thread just to complain about "cardboard issues"—that’s not how this works—instead, there is already a dedicated topic, specifically 😁 which is exactly what it was designed for 🍿

rowdyhawk10 Active Member

123 messages
joined Oct 2009

#14 · Feb 20, 2009

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to clear the board, I'll leave that up to ZgSash.. 🙂

However, regarding the topic you brought up, Gary Patel, we aren't going to reopen that discussion because, frankly, it’s a bit provocative...
specifically: "just let them keep writing and see how far they go". It's just pointless! 🙄

Gary Patel Active MemberOP

74 messages
joined Jul 2022

#15 · Feb 20, 2009

Alright, look, rowdyhawk10—if you’re going to take a stand, then go ahead and ban the folks who constantly complain about non-religious people posting in the Religion section. They’re always demanding that those users be silenced forever just because they don't share the faith. It’s happened so many times before—people asking why atheists are even allowed to post in a dedicated religious forum—yet nobody ever gets penalized for it. I only started this thread because I was genuinely curious to see what the sub would actually look like if it were strictly for believers. To me, there wasn't any provocation intended here at all. It was only seven days, after all. And yeah, thanks for finally (hopefully!) lifting my suspension.

steelskipper5 Active Member

176 messages
joined Feb 2010

#16 · Feb 21, 2009

So, it looks like Gary Patel didn't actually do anything wrong, rowdyhawk10 failed to provide any real explanation, and the whole thread is being shut down just because it's "pointless."

Nothing is happening here... honestly. I remember back in the day when I used to defend moderator decisions like they were gospel. Now? I’m basically tearing them apart. Or maybe I just straight-up despise them at this point.
Did I change, or did the mods change? Or is it both? And what exactly went south?

rapidrider3 Active Member

239 messages
joined May 2009

#17 · Feb 21, 2009

^^ Language is officially dead. It’s gone. Completely trashed.

Gary Patel Active MemberOP

74 messages
joined Jul 2022

#18 · Feb 21, 2009

The points have been cleared—huge thanks to the moderators for stepping in. Since steelskipper5 seems to have some specific interests here, I'll leave it up to you guys to decide how we handle this thread, though I’m definitely on his side😬. Much appreciated.

rowdyhawk10 Active Member

123 messages
joined Oct 2009

#19 · Feb 23, 2009

Gary Patel said:Well, fine, rowdyhawk10, but if you're going to do that, then go ahead and ban the users who complain about non-religious people posting in the Religion section and demand they be kicked out... permanently. People have requested that atheists stop posting there numerous times before since the sub is literally called Religion and they feel they have no business being there, yet nobody was ever penalized. I only started this thread because I wanted to see what a sub would look like without non-religious people, and I don't really see any provocation here. It was only seven days, after all. And yeah, thanks for (hopefully) removing the ban.

Look... the idea that only believers should be allowed to post is completely baseless and unacceptable. Agnosticism and atheism are also specific stances regarding religion, God, and morality... so those who believe God exists don't have some exclusive claim to this sub, nor does it belong solely to them. If we actually did that and left only the believers, the Religion sub would just turn into a tedious church where one specific group endlessly laments about boring fantasies.

So, we're never going to allow that, nor is it even possible. I suppose we'll have to start banning outbursts like "what are you doing in Religion, you're an atheist" moving forward. Just report those kinds of posts when you see them! Cheers. 🙂

steelskipper5 Active Member

176 messages
joined Feb 2010

#20 · Feb 24, 2009

rowdyhawk10 said:Look... the idea that only believers should be allowed to smoke is totally baseless—and honestly, it’s just unacceptable!

So why hasn't anything ever been done before? I mean—seriously—for years we've seen believers openly spew intolerance toward atheists, yet those posts just sailed right through without any sanctions. They were reported, sure, but nothing happened. So why is this specific case being penalized now, especially when there wasn't even any actual intolerance involved? It feels pretty inconsistent, if you ask me.

Look, agnosticism and atheism are also specific stances on religion, God, and morality—so people who believe in God don't get some kind of exclusive VIP pass to this subforum. It doesn't belong solely to them. If we actually turned the religion forum into a space strictly for believers—which, let's be honest, would be a disaster—it would just turn into one big, boring church where one specific group endlessly laments about their repetitive little fantasies.

And that’s exactly what Gary Patel was trying to prove with his little experiment—to show everyone how it actually works. So, I guess you're just punishing him for being right? 👎

Look, we aren't ever going to allow that—not that it’s even remotely possible in the first place. I mean, honestly, we're just not going to stand for those kinds of outbursts (like...) What are you even doing hanging out in a religion forum? You're an atheist—why are you even here?From now on, we’re going to have to start handing out bans—just straight-up carding people. If you see any posts like that, just report them immediately! Cheers. 🙂

So, here’s how the whole system works over at this forum—it’s honestly a joke. First, you report someone for obvious trolling, blatant intolerance, or straight-up hate speech. What happens? Nothing. They stay completely unpunished. Then, you say something way more mild—something barely even worth mentioning—and suddenly *you're* the one getting penalized. And then, once it turns out you didn't actually do anything wrong, they just wipe the penalty, promise they'll "do better" next time, and act like everything is fine. It’s unbelievable.

Is it going to go down the exact same way this time around?
So, are you actually going to punish that kind of intolerance the way it deserves? Or what?
And while we’re on the subject—what kind of sentence do you think they actually deserve?
To me, saying stuff like "atheists, get off this religious forum" sounds exactly like telling Mexicans to leave the US, or telling Jews to leave Germany, or telling Black people to leave America. It’s basically hate speech. So, I'm curious—how exactly are you going to sanction that?

Appeal regarding Shadyev's JL Karton

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