Hitchcock, Carpenter & Craven

Whenever the conversation turns to Italian horror—which, if you ask me, is easily the highest quality genre out there, at least during that golden era from the 60s through the 80s—three names always jump to the front of the line: the legendary Alfred Hitchcock, John Carpenter, and Wes Craven. Most people seem to shove Craven right to the top of the list, but in my estimation, he was actually the weakest link among those three. Hitchcock is, hands down, the most influential horror director of all time; he touched almost every subgenre imaginable—gothic, sci-fi, fantasy, slashers, psychological thrillers—and his visual mastery was nothing short of phenomenal. Honestly, without him, Craven probably wouldn't have even become what he is today (a household name, at least in the US and among hardcore horror buffs). Then you have Carpenter, who usually gets pigeonholed as the king of splatter, but he actually explored plenty of different styles too; and while he might not have had the sheer visual wizardry of the other two, he delivered some incredibly memorable cult classics. Compared to Hitchcock & Carpenter, Craven felt pretty generic to me—you could argue he spent about 90% of his career making the exact same kind of movie (those stylized thrillers in the vein of the unmatched Suspiria), and frankly, that "formula" wore thin for me a long time ago. I’m not one for ranking films or directors, but when it comes to this specific trio, my stance is pretty set:
1. Hitchcock
2. Carpenter
3. Craven

I’ve honestly never even heard of those movies... when were they actually made, and what’s the gist of them? Is there any chance I could actually find them sitting on a shelf at a local video rental shop?

I’m honestly surprised you haven’t even heard of Argento—the guy is practically mainstream at this point. You’ve got Hitchcock churning out films back in the 60s and 70s, Carpenter was dominating the 70s and 80s, and Argento is still working today (though, let's be real, he hasn't made anything truly decent in twenty years)... so you aren't exactly going to stumble upon their stuff just wandering through a local video rental shop. Like I mentioned before, all three belong to that elite tier of horror legends, so there's really no point in debating what they represent... anyway, here are the links for all three; it's definitely worth checking out at least a few films from each of them.
Hitchcock - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000878/
Carpenter - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002086/
Argento - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000783/

Is anyone actually going to weigh in here? Honestly, I’d much rather have someone tear my argument to shreds than be met with this absolute silence—it makes it look like I’m just shouting into the void without a clue what I'm talking about... LOL

It’s not like nobody has a clue here. It’s just that, I don't know, I'm kind of stuck on what else there is to say about it. 😁 To me, those old-school Italian horror flicks feel a bit like consumer tech; nothing feels totally groundbreaking, just old ideas pushed to some new extreme.

But they aren't bad movies. Not by a long shot. They're basically required reading for any horror fan. Or, well, maybe more like a phase you go through rather than mandatory reading.

It’s always a bit of a hunt trying to track down their movies, especially if you're looking for an English sub
anyway, feel free to drop every cast list in this thread 🙏

Carpenter's films lean pretty heavily into trash territory—honestly, he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as those two. Though, if we're being real, Argento is wildly overrated too.

Hitchcock is a total legend... Black Sabbath is easily one of the best horror flicks I've ever seen, and I'd tell anyone to give it a watch.

Putting Carpenter and Hitchcock in the same sentence is like comparing Hitchcock to Bruce Lee. 😁

Right, but where did Cannibal Holocaust go?

I only really started diving into Italian horror a few months back—and I have to say, they're incredible! Currently, Wes Craven is my number one since I've seen more of his stuff than anyone else.
My absolute favorite is 'Suspiria', followed closely by 'Deep Red'.
I'd also mention that 'Tenebrae' and 'Phenomena' are very solid. 'Inferno' (the second part of that witch trilogy kicked off by 'Suspiria') was fantastic right up until that incredibly rushed ending. Since the 90s, the only ones that stuck with me were 'Third Mother' and, in my opinion, the underrated 'Trauma'. Everything else is forgettable.

I haven't watched anything from John Carpenter yet. I did see 'Wax Mask', which was co-written by Wes Craven and John, but I didn't really enjoy it.

As for Hitchcock, I first heard about him through his son Lambert, who teamed up with Wes Craven for those super fun 'Demons 1 & 2' movies.
From the elder Hitchcock, I've only seen 'Shock' and it was great. Can anyone recommend another good film by Maria Bava?

I should also mention the somewhat low-profile Michele Soavi, who directed some really strong films like 'Church', 'The Sect', and 'Cemetery Man'. Has anyone here seen any of those?

Charles Smith4 said:I only really started diving into Italian horror a few months ago—and I totally agree, they’re incredible!—so Wes Craven is my number one right now since I've seen most of his stuff.
My absolute favorite is 'Suspiria', followed closely by 'Deep Red'.
I'd also mention the solid 'Tenebrae' and 'Phenomena'. 'Inferno' (which follows 'Suspiria' as part of that witch trilogy) was great until that rushed ending... honestly, pretty jarring. Since the 90s, I've only really enjoyed 'Third Mother' and what I think is an underrated gem, 'Trauma'. Everything else is forgettable.

As for John Carpenter, I haven't checked out his work yet. I did see 'Wax Mask', which was co-written by Craven and John, but it didn't really do it for me.

I actually heard about Hitchcock through his son Lambert, who teamed up with Craven for those hilarious 'Demons 1 & 2' films.
From the elder Hitchcock, I've only seen 'Shock' and it was fantastic. Does anyone have recommendations for more good films by Maria Bava?

I should also mention Michele Soavi—he's a bit low-profile, but he directed some really strong pieces like 'Church', 'The Sect', and 'Cemetery Man'. Has anyone here seen any of those?

You've got to check out Carpenter's films... if only for the laughs. 🤣
And from Hitchcock, you definitely need to watch Black Sabbath:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057603/

silentmarlin93 said:Absolutely nobody has anything to say? Honestly, I’d much rather have someone spit on me for my take than face this deafening silence. It just makes it look like everyone is completely clueless about what I was actually getting at... LOL

Pride comes before a fall, they say, but I simply couldn't help myself 😁. There are clearly still some enthusiasts of American genre cinema lurking here. Here is a small slice of my collection:

Charles Smith4 said:'Deep Red'.

That's easily one of the best murder scenes ever put to film.🙏

But I have to admit, Black Sabbath (especially that final segment) is one of the scariest horror movies I've ever sat through.

Alan B'stard said:Oh yeah, and where's Deodato?

See, Cannibal Holocaust just didn't work for me... that scene with the turtle being slaughtered was way too much.

Americans really ought to take a closer look at this stuff.

So, just the other day—was it a Friday? Or maybe Saturday, I lose track... anyway—I ended up watching two Mario Bava flicks. One was this 60s anthology thing, and the other was a 70s exorcism flick. Honestly, that exorcism one felt a lot like The Exorcist.

I watched a bit of it, but it’s got those dual titles, you know? I can't recall them exactly, but if I remember right, there's one title for the US market and another one for Europe.

Anyway, I haven't actually sat down to watch anything by Argent yet. Definitely need to fix that soon... part of the bucket list, I guess.

And does Deodato fall into that same category with them? I mean, Cannibal Holocaust isn't even really horror... it could be anything, really, but I wouldn't call it pure horror. At least, not to me.

Still, man, what a movie. It's one of those rare ones that actually hits you where it hurts and leaves you shocked. That scene with the turtle... god, that was brutal. I mean, it's nature, right? Animals die, animals get eaten, that's life. But watching that scene was just... heavy. Especially seeing the actors seem to actually enjoy hacking away at it, smashing the shell... it was too much. And that was just one part! There are plenty of others. Even the massacre at the end felt almost easy to watch compared to the rest of the film.

And the music! Man, the music is stunning. That was my first big surprise. The movie kicks off with those gorgeous aerial shots and that score just starts playing... incredible.

Though, honestly? I'm kind of terrified to watch it again. I want to, I really do, but then I remember how I spent the next three days feeling totally unsettled and just... off...

Andrew Stewart2 said:Does Deodato follow the same logic with them? Cannibal Holocaust isn't even strictly horror; it could be anything, but I don't really see it as a horror movie.

By the way, it’s a fantastic film—one of those rare ones that actually shocks you. That turtle scene is brutal. Sure, it's natural for animals to kill and eat each other, but watching that was just hard. It's especially tough because the actors seem to genuinely enjoy hacking away at it and smashing the shell... And if you think that's the only rough part, think again. There are plenty more. Even the massacre at the end feels almost easy to watch compared to everything else in the movie.

And the music? Gorgeous. That was my first big surprise. The movie kicks off with those stunning aerial shots paired with such great sound.

Honestly, I'm a little scared to watch it again. Part of me wants to, but then I remember how I spent three days feeling completely unsettled after the first time...

It's shocking, yeah, but there were other ways to pull it off. It reminds me of something equally jarring like Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom. Just killing an animal for the sake of a movie? I couldn't get past that. Look, I'm not some extreme animal lover, but this was too much. It left me with the impression that the film is just one step away from being a snuff film.
But the music is beautiful. I have to agree with you there.

Anthony Ramirez45 said:Pride comes before a fall, but I just couldn't help myself😁. There are still some real fans of Italian genre cinema hanging out here. A little slice of my collection:

🙏

Watched Diabolik last night. Honestly, I can't believe how Mario Bava can churn out such top-tier pulp trash. Absolute cult classics.
Anyone else checked out anything by Lenzi? I saw Cannibal Ferox and it was alright, but nothing to write home about.

Anthony Ramirez45 said:People love to brag about their gear until it inevitably breaks down on them, but honestly, I just couldn't help myself! 😁Looks like there are a few more fans of Italian genre cinema hanging out here! Here is a little snapshot of my collection:

Wait, am I seeing this right? It looks like some of these movies haven't even been unwrapped yet! 😁

Wait, am I seeing this right? Some of these films haven't even been unwrapped yet? 😁

They’ve been unwrapped; it’s just an optical illusion.

San watched Diabolik last night, and honestly, I can't believe how Mario Bava manages to craft such top-tier pulp nonsense. Absolute cult material.
Has anyone actually sat through anything by Lenzi? I caught Cannibal Ferox and it was fine, but nothing to write home about.

I feel the same way regarding Lenzi, though I might suggest the nihilistic Almost Human.

Blessings upon the soul who resurrected this thread (and the one who originally breathed life into it).

I consider the elder Bava to be the alpha and omega of the horror genre; to this day, I maintain that "Black Sabbath" stands as his most formidable achievement, though I have also delved into "Lisa & The Devil", "Blood and Black Lace", "Black Sunday", and "The Whip and the Body".

Argento is, quite rightfully, the most resonant name in the realm of American horror classics, and his "Suspiria" remains my absolute favorite of all time; from that masterpiece, I have also explored "Bird with the Crystal Plumage", "Cat o' Nine Tails", "Four Flies on a Grey Velvet", "Deep Red", "Inferno", "Tenebre", "Phenomena", "Sleepless", "Card Player", "The Third Mother", "Opera", and "Stendhal syndrome".

As for Lucio Fulci, he is a subject unto himself; I still find myself debating whether "don't tortura Donald Duck" or "The Beyond" holds more sway over me. Regarding his other works, I have viewed "Lizard in a Woman's Skin", "Zombie Flesh Eaters", and "City of the Living Dead".
"House by the Cemetery" is next on my agenda.

I hold a deep affinity for this style of horror, and it would be most desirable if its following remains steady, if not grows, in the years to come.

Paul Ross73 said:God bless whoever breathed life back into this thread (and the person who started it in the first place).

I honestly think Mario Bava is the alpha and omega of the horror genre. To this day, "Black Sabbath" remains his absolute peak for me. As for his other stuff, I’ve mostly just poked around through Lisa & The Devil, Blood and Black Lace, Black Sunday, and The Whip and the Body.

On that note, I’m giving a heartfelt recommendation for Operation Fear. It stands right up there with Three Faces of Fear—personally, I might even like it better.

silentmarlin93 said:Seriously, not a single comment? I’d honestly prefer if someone just spat on me for what I wrote rather than facing this total silence. It makes it look like nobody even understood a word I was saying... LOL

I’ve mostly stuck to watching Argent. Man, the way he handles lighting and color palettes on screen is absolutely insane, not to mention his camera work. And the music? Goblin is just on another level. I’ve seen about five or six of them, but *Suspiria* and *Deep Red* are easily the heavy hitters for me...