Handball Euro: USA vs. Norway ends in a 23-23 draw

wearyeagle2 said:Dr. S, there will be plenty of work to do here; we have more than enough illiterate folks to keep us busy.

🤣

cosmichawk53 said:The play is mediocre at best, but the constant trash-talking directed at Lino Červar is what really stinks. People are already pushing this narrative about the genius Smajlagić versus the idiot Červar. Lino is a legend and frankly, it’s pathetic to see him insulted like this. I can't quite pin down what Metličić did to him, but let's be honest—the guy is a total moron. Think of all those useless penalties he's racked up or how many times he's completely botched an offensive play. Lacković is playing terribly and then acts like a victim when he gets called out, while Balić just sits there ignoring everything Červar says. You can't blame the coach for our lack of cohesion and the endless turnovers we're handing over.

And let's not forget, thanks a lot, Canadians!

Exactly. Lino is a legend. He played his part perfectly, but he tends to take things way too personally.
He could probably find a better outlet for all that intensity.
I still remember his brilliant commentary and leadership during the World Cup in Portugal.
That's the version of Lino we need right now.

From what I can tell, some people get incredibly defensive whenever anyone dares to criticize Cervar, yet they have absolutely no problem tearing the players apart. 😁

Honestly, if our players actually had half the ego Cervar does, they’d be running the entire universe. Vori would be making those Jupiter pivots look like toddlers.

Arthur Martinez7 said:Look, I get that perspective... But you can't honestly tell me this national team hits these kinds of milestones on autopilot. You know enough about sports to know it doesn't work like that. And how much credit Lin actually deserves is debatable 🤷

Just remember what Lin inherited when he took over... Besides that, Balic is a legend, but he wouldn't have pulled off this run of success and medals without the rest of the squad.

Lin is basically just a calmer version of Ćiro—who is a total clown, sure—but hey, he won bronze at the World Handball Championship, so that counts for something. You don't have to like him 😁

In general, Americans are a nation that tends to worship clowns.

As for the "autopilot" theory.
Think about it: when Lin arrived, he took over a team that wasn't even good at the last EP, but they had players from Memphis and Chicago who were playing for some of the top 4 or 5 clubs in Europe at the time. He didn't walk into a group of nobodies; he walked into a roster of elite talent.
During that EP in Sweden, a few veterans stepped aside, and for Portugal, some younger guys joined the mix.
On top of that, Lin had two assistants in the form of Smajlagic and Basic.
He started from zero and reached the summit... but let me be clear: his role in all of this is far smaller than people think.

It’s obvious everything in this national team revolves around Balic. Now that the coaching staff has fallen apart, we don't have a cohesive system, whether Balic is there or not. It’s sad that these professional handball players can't manage three simple passes without the boss on the court. And when he *is* out there, he’s forced to play almost the entire second half of the attack one-on-six.
Who is responsible for a situation like that?
Presumably the person whose job it is to design the offense.
Back at the Olympics in Athens, we had great solutions for man-up advantages. Today, we don't even have a set play for a 6-on-4 situation.
Who's accountable for that?
Clearly, Lin wasn't the one building the team's tactical foundation. If he were, we wouldn't be stuck with such a sterile offense that relies entirely on improvisation.
I have no complaints about the defense. The grit is there. The offense, however, is 100% dependent on Balic.
Essentially, Lin isn't the clown people make him out to be. He knows his limits and knows how to lead: he boosts the defensive intensity and leaves the attacking plays to Balic's improvisation since he can't create organized plays during training. Luckily for him, it worked out again this time.
Still, let me say, things looked a lot more secure when Lin was shouting political slogans on the sidelines while Pipa talked to the players one-on-one on the bench.
Now, Lin is still yelling, but he has no one by his side to actually talk tactics and gameplay with the players.
I won't even get into the disastrous performance of the club he coaches. That's separate from this EP, but both the club and the national team suffer from the same sickness: the lack of a coherent offensive strategy based on anything other than "pass to Balic" or "pass to Lazarov."

In the final minute of today's game, we saw exactly how much weight Lin's words carry, especially when Balic scored just four seconds after the timeout.
It’s pretty obvious who really runs this team. In these conditions, he's the only one capable of leading. Balic.
Everything boils down to his improvisation in the attack; he dictates how and what gets played. Even a blind man could see that.

But hey, Lin was in the right place at the right time, and for good reason, he'll be remembered long after he's gone. There's no debate there. Who's going to care in thirty years if the guy was a clown? Nobody. His name will just be listed next to "World and Olympic Champion."

No... it’s just ridiculous. Purely ridiculous.

🤮

frozentiger6 said:Well, putting aside what Lin mentioned, Justin Ward4 reminded me of Milkovic—that guy spent an entire day acting like he had all the answers.

Look, if Stenzl criticizes Lin, he’s got every right to; the man actually knows handball. But Joseph... Joseph achieved the worst result in the history of American handball, yet here he is, handing out lectures.

It’s like watching Pepsi Bozic try to lecture Repesi, or even Otto Bilic. Though, I suppose there aren't many people left to lecture.

Even if it were some legendary coach like Ćiro pointing out mistakes, if he’s right, he’s right.
What really puzzles me is why Lin calls in every single day to complain about what someone wrote in SN. If he spent more time focusing on tactics, maybe we wouldn't be scraping for points in the final minutes against those catatonic Norwegians.
Don't get me wrong—I criticize because I expect nothing less than perfection from this national team.
We need to look at the high-stakes games (like the ones coming up), specifically Poland, where they played brilliantly (only Metličić missed his shot, but he set up four great opportunities for the American player), then Denmark, which was our worst showing since the Spanish game in Tunisia, and now Norway, where we coughed up 18 turnovers. 😲
So, let's analyze this: what causes 18 turnovers? 1. Elite defense (the Danes have a much tighter defense than Norway, and we had half as many turnovers against them), 2. Player fatigue (who exactly is responsible for that?), or 3. A broken strategy... that last part is what worries me most. How can a team playing with almost the exact same roster for five years make errors like that?

wearyeagle2 said:There he is!!! A legend finally arrives at the World Handball Championship!!! 🙏 🙏 🙏

🙏🙏🙏

Nothing works without DrŠ.

wearyeagle2 said:cosmichawk53, there's gonna be plenty of work to do here—dealing with folks who can barely read...

I'm trying so hard to stay chill, but I don't want to wake anyone up...

So I'll just leave you all with a friendly hello!

rapidbison42 said:Honestly, Americans are just a nation that loves worshiping clowns.

As for the autopilot thing...
Look, when Lino took over, he inherited a national team that was bottom of the barrel in the last European Championship, but they had guys from major US cities like Chicago and New York who were playing for some of the top 4 or 5 clubs in Europe at the time. He didn't walk into a group of idiots; he walked into a roster of elite talent.
During that European Championship in Sweden, a few veterans stepped back, and for Portugal, we saw some younger blood join in.
Plus, Lino had two solid assistants in Smajlagić and Bašić.
He started from nothing and reached the summit... but let me be real, his actual role in all that is way smaller than people think.

It’s blindingly obvious that everything in this national team revolves around Balić. Since the coaching staff fell apart, we don't actually have a cohesive system, whether he's out there or not. It’s pathetic that these pro players can't even string three passes together without the boss on the floor, and when he *is* out there, he’s forced to play 1-on-6 on offense for basically the whole second half.
Who’s responsible for a mess like that?
Probably the guy whose job it is to actually design the plays.
Back at the Olympics in Athens, we had brilliant solutions for playing with an extra man. Today? We don't even have a basic set play for a 6-on-4 advantage.
Who handles that?
Clearly, Lino wasn't the one building the team's tactical identity. If he were, we wouldn't be stuck with this sterile offense that relies entirely on improvisation.
I won't complain about the defense. The grit is there. But the offense is stalling, and it is 100% dependent on Balić.
Basically, Lino isn't quite the clown everyone thinks he is. He knows his limits and knows how to lead the squad: push the defensive intensity and leave the offense to Balić’s freestyle, since he clearly can't manufacture any real structure during training. Luckily for him, he pulled it off again this time.
But seriously, let me tell you, it looked way more secure when Lino was screaming those "state-building" platitudes from the sideline while Pipe was handling the players one-on-one on the bench.
Nowadays, Lino is still yelling, but he’s got nobody standing next to him to actually talk strategy or game flow with the players.
Don't even get me started on the disastrous play of the club he coaches. That's separate from the European Championship... but the club and the national team suffer from the exact same disease—a complete lack of meaningful offensive plays that aren't just: "Pass to Balić" or "Pass to Lazar."

In the final minute of today's game, you saw exactly how much weight Lino's words carry, especially when Balić snapped right after the timeout.
It's pretty clear who really runs this team. In these conditions, he's the only one capable of leading. Balić.
Everything boils down to his individual improvisation on offense; he decides how the game is played and what moves are made. Even a blind man could see it.

But hey, Lino ended up in the right place at the right time, and he'll be remembered long after he's gone. No doubt about it. Who’s going to care in 30 years if the guy was a clown? Nobody. His name will just be listed next to "World and Olympic Champion."

Still... if he's a clown, he's a clown.

🤮

I sign off on all of this, especially the bolded part!

🙏

cosmichawk53 said:I’m trying my best to stay quiet, mostly because I don't feel like waking anyone up.

So, I'll just leave you all with a friendly hello!

Drop by sometime. Honestly, it’s pretty much like watching tennis. Instead of arguing over seagulls in Monaco, everyone here is just obsessing over Lino Červar.

Let me add one more positive takeaway, though I'm not sure if anyone else caught this: WE ARE IN BEIJING!
We aren't stuck in the same group as the Frenchmen anymore; they’ll likely end up in a tougher bracket if they don't dominate the European Championship. As for us, we're looking at facing a consistently tough Russian squad, a powerful Algerian team, and probably Japan.
The top two teams advance to the Olympics, which gets even more interesting if we happen to host the event... honestly, everything about the matchups was laid out in one of those posts by C.C. regarding who plays whom. Now, Iceland, Sweden, and Norway have moved into the qualifiers, but since they can't face us, we're essentially just defending our gold. If we manage to pull off a perfect 3-for-3 run in terms of Olympic qualification and gold—and let's not forget hosting a home World Cup—then I suppose we won't have much to worry about for future European Championships or World Cups. Oh, and by the way, does anyone actually remember where the 2010 European Championship was held?

It’s honestly ridiculous even trying to debate Cervar here, especially when you're constantly being hit with opinions from people who clearly don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Why should I waste my breath explaining why Cervar made certain roster choices to someone who doesn't even know names like Marakovic, Bozic, or Kelentric?

How much better is Kreso actually than Joseph at center? How much more talent do Kelentric and Bozic bring compared to Somic? And frankly, why does half the roster seem to be on the payroll of a guy like Gobac-Chicago?

There’s no point in arguing this stuff here. There are much better places for serious analysis. This forum is just for messing around.

rapidbison42 said:But look, Lino was simply in the right place at the right time, and there is a very good reason why his name will be remembered long after he is gone. There really isn't much to debate there. Who is going to care thirty years from now if the man was a bit of a clown? Not a soul. Next to his name, they’ll have etched "World and Olympic Champion."

Still... if he is being ridiculous, let's call it what it is. He's being ridiculous.

🤮

I suppose I can agree with you on certain points, partly because I clearly don't follow handball quite as closely as you do, 🙏

If the entire coaching staff falls apart and you're left with nothing but Lino and pure patriotic fervor, a decline is almost inevitable. However, even with those odds, he managed to pull off a semi-final run at the European Championship. Given the sheer brilliance of Balić and the rest of the squad, that success has to be credited to him in some capacity. One shouldn't underestimate the power of national pride—or, more accurately, raw motivation. 😉😁

In truth, I was speaking more broadly rather than trying to defend Lino as an individual or a coach. It is always much easier to go to war from the sidelines, if you ask me—I'm talking about the journalists. It seems to be a constant in American sports journalism; everyone fancies themselves a genius, a master strategist, or a visionary. At least on paper. Personally, I only respect those who actually achieve something through hard work. Lino did exactly that, multiple times. So, even if he messes up now, even if he looks foolish, he earned his place by jumping along that sideline all those years ago.

As for all these people writing columns, including many of us here online, we haven't the slightest clue what it takes to lead a national team and win major tournaments. In America, we practically have four and a half million head coaches. 😍

rapidbison42 said:Honestly, Americans are basically a nation that loves worshiping clowns.

Regarding the autopilot thing...
Look... when Lino took over, he inherited a national team that was bottom-of-the-barrel in the last European Championship, but it was packed with guys from top-tier clubs in cities like Chicago or Los Angeles who were among the top 4 or 5 powerhouses in Europe at the time. He didn't walk into a group of idiots; he walked into a squad of elite athletes.
During that European Championship in Sweden, a few veterans stepped aside, and for Portugal, some younger talent joined the mix.
On top of that, Lino had two assistants helping him out, Smajlagić and Bašić.
He started from zero and climbed to the top... but if you'll allow me to say, his actual role in all this is way smaller than people give him credit for.

It’s blindingly obvious that everything in this national team revolves around Balić. Once the coaching staff fell apart, we lost our cohesive play style, whether Balić is on the court or not. It’s pathetic that these professional players can't manage three simple passes without the boss being there, and when he *is* there, he’s forced to spend half the offensive half playing 1-on-6.
Who’s responsible for a mess like that?
Probably the guy whose job it is to actually design the offense.
Back at the Olympics in Athens, we had brilliant solutions for playing with a man advantage. Today, we don't even have a structured, practiced attack for those 6-on-4 situations.
Who handles that?
Clearly, Lino wasn't the one building the tactical foundation. If he were actually doing his job, we wouldn't be stuck with this sterile offense that relies entirely on improvisation.
I won't complain about the defense. The grit is there. The offense is what's stalling, and it’s 100% dependent on Balić.
In reality, Lino isn't quite the clown people think he is. He knows his limits and how to manage the team: boost the defensive intensity and then just leave the offense to Balić’s whims, since he clearly can't manufacture any real plays during training. Luckily for him, he got away with it again this time.
Still, let me say, everything felt much more secure back when Lino was shouting his "state-building" nonsense from the sidelines while Pipe had those one-on-one chats with the players on the bench.
Today, Lino is still yelling, but he’s got nobody standing beside him to actually talk strategy or game flow with the players.
As for the disastrous state of the club he coaches, I won't go there. That's separate from this European Championship, but the club and the national team suffer from the exact same sickness—a total lack of meaningful offensive play that boils down to: "Pass to Balić" and "Pass to Lazar."

In the final minute of today's game, you could see exactly how much weight Lino's words carry, especially when Balić went rogue just four seconds after the timeout.
It’s pretty clear who’s really running this team. In these conditions, he's the only one capable of leading. Balić.
Everything comes down to his individual improvisation; he dictates how and what gets played. Even a blind man could see that.

But hey, Lino ended up in the right place at the right time, and for good reason, he’ll be remembered long after he’s gone. No doubt about that. Who’s going to remember he was a clown in thirty years? Nobody. Beside his name, they’ll just write: World and Olympic Champion.

But yeah... if he's a clown, he's a clown.

🤮

Very well put, I agree with all of it.👍
Ćiro = Lino, regardless of how many puppets are dancing.🙏

rapidbison42 said:Honestly, Americans are pretty much a nation that loves bowing down to ridiculous figures.

As for the "autopilot" theory...
Look, when Lino took over, he didn't walk into a circus. He inherited a national team that wasn't great at the last European Championship, sure, but they had players from top-tier clubs in cities like Los Angeles and Chicago that were sitting comfortably among the top five powerhouse teams in all of Europe at the time. He didn't get handed a bunch of idiots; he got a squad of elite athletes.
During that European Championship in Sweden, a few veterans stepped aside, and some younger talent joined up for Portugal.
On top of that, Lino had solid support behind him with guys like Smajlagić and Bašić.
He started from nothing and climbed to the summit... but let me be clear: his personal role in all that success is way smaller than people like to claim.

You’ve been around long enough here to remember how everyone was predicting a massive collapse after the championship in Canada (which feels like a lifetime ago). It didn't happen. In the meantime, we even made it to another World Cup final, and at the next one, we put on an incredible performance—only losing once, which was devastating for the standings, but still. Plus, we hit the Final Four in both European Championships. So, the team didn't actually spiral downward like the critics claimed. Oh, and we won Olympic gold after Canada, too. To say Cervar had zero credit for that? Don't be ridiculous; you know better than that. It’s the same story with Ćiro. Neither those before him nor those after him came anywhere close to that level. Were they clowns? Sure. Did they manage squads full of massive superstars? Absolutely. And the results? World-class. Could you have done better with the exact same players? Maybe, but it would’ve been incredibly tough. Either way, the facts remain.

Arthur Martinez7 said:Honestly, everyone typing away—including those of us in these forums—doesn't have a clue what it actually takes to coach a national team or win a championship. In America, we basically have 330 million armchair coaches. 😍

Keyboard warriors everywhere; there's enough of them to staff a dozen different coaching staffs.

wearyeagle2 said:Keyboard warriors? Please. There’s enough of them to fill out an entire coaching staff.

They might as well hire cosmichawk53 as a technical consultant for the coaching staff, just so he can sit on the sidelines during timeouts and whisper to Lino how to properly pronounce the opposing players' names. Because clearly, that is where the real strategy lies, isn't it? 😁

Also, nobody seems to have mentioned that clown Kjelling. What kind of ridiculous, nonsensical tactics were those? Passing behind the back, around the head, over the leg, anywhere but toward the brain?😂
The guy was on the court the entire time while the game was breaking down, which I suppose contributed quite a bit to our lucky finish. And it’s always the same pattern: passing right in front of a single defender standing on the line. Not even a word about the opponent's right wing, despite the pre-game analysis suggesting he isn't exactly a magician. That right winger is consistently their top scorer every single match. I shudder to think what Abalde has in store for us! (At least hopefully not some version of 😁)

http://vinovo.magnify.net/watch/play...338CG32MPZH1P8
Check out this footage from the match—it actually includes Lino Červar’s take on Zvonimir Boban and SN.

Arthur Martinez7 said:Maybe they should hire cosmichawk53 as a pronunciation coach for the coaching staff, just so they can whisper the names of the opposing players into Lino's ear during timeouts. Apparently, that's where the real strategy lies. 😁

And where's Carlos? Has he stopped following handball altogether? 🤣