Drug Policy: Safe Injection Sites (SIS)

Edward Green said:They basically said something more like, "Who cares about junkies, let them rot, I wouldn't even lift a finger to help." Where would you even put them on a scale of morality?

If that’s all they meant, then fine. But I highly doubt people actually think that way; I think they're just enforcing a "ZERO TOLERANCE" policy toward users. Which, honestly, isn't a great way to handle it. You'd be eating those words pretty fast if it were your own kid getting hooked.

because there is a distinction. Not providing info on how different drugs impact you is dangerous in my opinion. Someone could be using something regularly for six months without realizing how bad it is, and then they move on to something way more lethal because they think it's all the same thing.

Information is AVAILABLE. Even today, people who don't know anything about drugs understand the differences. I knew the difference between marijuana and cocaine or heroin when I was 12, and I hadn't even SEEN any of it by then, let alone tried it.

I haven't seen heroin in person once in my entire life.

For a while, I didn't know the chemical makeup, but I knew what stuff did and the consequences involved. I think that's a much more useful approach than just saying, "Don't do that, it's bad." Because if you don't explain *why* it's bad, there's a higher chance someone will just reject that along with everything else they're rejecting during a phase of irrational rebellion against the status quo just because someone told them how to live. At least, that's how it seems to me.

You're drifting a bit too far off track here. It's not like people are so uneducated that they have NO CLUE what's going on. And drug use doesn't just come from pure rebellion; there are plenty of other factors at play.

I was only drawing a parallel in the sense that these are all things that cause harm. People know they are harmful and they do them anyway, so they need medical care, the costs of which are mostly covered by Medicare. But here, some people have gotten really worked up about the idea that their money is going toward a specific group—addicts—who consciously start something with health consequences. Meanwhile, the fact that it also covers everyone else is apparently no big deal. To me, it's a lot easier to start eating healthy than it is to get off heroin.

I agree, and well put. But you still can't draw a parallel between addicts and alcoholics versus people who eat junk food or smoke cigarettes.

Fine, let's take it to the extreme then. Let's say people living in major cities like Chicago are consciously breathing in smog, and since they didn't move out of the city when they knew it would screw them over, it's their own fault.

You have to draw a line somewhere. But when we're talking about who "DESERVES HEALTHCARE" and who doesn't, there's no debate—EVERYONE deserves it, regardless of income, gender, age, race, sexual orientation, or medical history.

Kimberly Moore90 said:I am talking about how dealers prey on kids who don't have the slightest clue what’s good or bad for them yet—they haven't even developed a real sense of what they want or don't want. Dealers target them... In my apartment building, there's an unwritten rule—ever since I moved in, you won't find a single dealer even on the next block over! 👍

No dealer ever just shows up at someone's door offering drugs; people seek them out themselves.

And if you want to talk about what kind of sales the government used to fund weapons during wartime,
I suppose it might be reasonable to suggest they set aside at least a tiny fraction of those funds for basic infrastructure, maybe just for twenty square feet of space.
Like, the cost of insulin is absolutely extortionate, yet in Cleveland they build fountains worth thousands, $0.00 and in Indianapolis they put in heated sidewalks in the town square—not to mention all that stuff done just to win pre-election campaigns—so, I guess you tell me who the foolish one is here.

And what are you, some sort of self-appointed enforcer of justice like Walker or something?

William White2 said:they're installing heated pavement in downtown Indianapolis

Yeah, right... just so nobody catches a chill. It's all about damage control... trying to stop everyone from getting pneumonia instead.

Olivia Martinez20, once again, I think you’re skillfully shifting all the "blame" onto society or institutions, claiming they didn't inform these poor kids enough, leaving them without a fair choice at the end of the day.

Look, sorry, but to me, that just sounds like you're hunting for an alibi. If kids light up a joint, they already know through peer talk that heroin is a much heavier hitter. They get told. I remember back in fifth grade, I had to give a seminar on drugs. Yeah, a SEMINAR. I was the one presenting to the class, while my Biology teacher spent way more actual hours talking to us about it.

The thing is, what she taught was part of the official school curriculum, so it isn't quite the dark void you're trying to paint. "those poor kids are kept in the dark, so they're forced to..."

Besides, most people aren't starting drugs in fifth grade when they're still goofy kids susceptible to everything. It happens LATER. Much later. And please, don't try to tell me a seventeen-year-old today doesn't know the difference between weed and heroin.

So, sure, I agree with you that proper information is essential, but I don't buy this alibi method where you just pass the buck to "someone else."
I honestly think people are better informed than you're giving them credit for.

Yeah, sure, let's go after dealers when it comes to kids. I went to elementary school where people were supposedly hanging around in hoodies, hitting up kids and selling drugs and all that crap. As for the drugs themselves, I saw some weed. But nobody ever cornered me and said, "Hey, take this, it'll make you feel great."

William White2 said:No dealer ever just knocks on someone's door offering drugs; people seek them out on their own.

🤣 Well, clearly this guy hasn't made a dime! For any successful sale, you need marketing! So I guess if you actually have money, it's all your fault? Typical.

And what are you, some kind of self-appointed judge, Walker or whatever?

Nah, I just like impressing girls. Who else am I supposed to hit on? Some nerds from the local community college?🤣

Edward Green said:nobody ever catches me off guard; I’d just tell them they look great.

Are you actually complaining here? Just go spend some money on some silicone implants, trust me—it'll solve everything!👍
🤣 🤣 🤣

Honestly, in this day and age, if a second grader doesn't already grasp that picking up a cigarette, smoking, or doing drugs is a terrible idea, they must have been raised in a vacuum. 😉

It’s like they’re constantly being bombarded from every single angle with these endless lectures about how it's harmful, blah blah blah.

And another thing: whenever I see those cheesy "sports against drugs" campaigns and similar nonsense 🤣 🙂, it honestly makes me want to go out and get high just out of spite. What a complete joke. 🙂 😬

Man, I remember back in sixth grade, the girls were totally split into two camps: the "good girls" and the "smokers." Those smokers would hang out with the eighth graders, and we sixth graders would just give them side-eye and stay far away. Back then, smoking was seen as the ultimate sin. Fast forward two years, and those same girls were smoking EVERYTHING. Ask 😬
about it.
And don't even get me started—it’s not like nobody knew smoking was bad for you.

Using sports to fight drugs... or using booze to fight sports.

To wrap this up... Not all drugs are bad... some are actually... great.

by 👋

Edward Green said:Smoking was considered absolute poison back then. Fast forward just two years, and they were all doing every single thing imaginable. Well, everyone except Edward Green. 😬

Back in my elementary school days, I had about ten girls in my class, and not a single one of them touched a cigarette. 😬
I’m honestly having to count on one hand the number of people left who actually don't smoke.

Honestly, back in elementary school, I was such a little angel. 🙂 I broke down right in the middle of my junior year. And of course, it had to happen right when things were finally starting to pick up. 😬

Kimberly Moore90 said:It seems they haven't quite mastered the fundamentals of the business. I suppose one could argue that marketing is actually the most critical factor behind any successful sale. It feels as though if there isn't enough capital to go around, the blame is simply shifted onto them.

This isn't actually my own quote, 😁

The whole point here is that an organization like this needs to finally give addicts a platform to actually speak up about their struggle within the context of the larger crisis. As long as heroin addiction is marginalized by the media and they keep pushing those empty slogans like "say no to drugs," we aren't going to achieve a damn thing.

Instead of just showing the damaged lungs of a smoker, why don't they show an addict in the middle of a withdrawal crisis? That would actually make a difference. And even then, it wouldn't be nearly enough of what really needs to be shown. 😉

Edward Green said:The numbers for cigarette, alcohol, and heroin addiction aren't even close.
Sure, there are more people dying from smoking consequences.
But total deaths among nicotine addicts are lower than those from heroin.

Leonard Nimoy said:Maybe it's because a massive number of people smoke, while heroin users represent much smaller percentages?
So cigarettes are deadlier than heroin? Go back and read what I wrote—maybe you'll catch my point. If not, well, whatever.

🙄

What exactly am I supposed to be taking from this? 🙄

I never claimed alcohol or cigarettes were worse for an individual than heroin—just that the overall mortality rate is higher.

Obviously, mortality rates spike when you have more people consuming 😵

That's like claiming more people will die in China this year than in Austria. 😵

Leonard Nimoy said:of course mortality rates rise when more people consume 😵

that's essentially like saying more Chinese people will die this year than Austrians. 😵

Well, thanks so much for the insight—I certainly hadn't realized that before.

P.S.: Your logic is just ringing in my ears.

You’re making some seriously stupid comparisons here.

"More people die from smoking" — wow, thanks for the insight, Albert Einstein. DUH. Of course they do, considering more than half the world picks up a pack. That doesn't mean a cigarette is somehow more lethal than heroin. Your whole argument is just laughable.

Brandon Castillo4 said:Look, you're drawing some pretty silly parallels here.

"More people die from smoking" — well, Albert Einstein, obviously—considering more than half the world smokes. That doesn't make cigarettes any more lethal than heroin, I suppose. The argument is just laughable.

I wasn't even the one who started making those comparisons on this thread; it was someone else, 😉
This was actually your response

Brandon Castillo4 said:I don't agree with those drawing parallels to alcohol (though an alcoholic is just as much a societal danger as a drug addict, but alcohol itself isn't necessarily so—you can have two beers, but a few shots might cause more damage), or cigarettes (cigarettes aren't psychoactive substances and don't drive a person toward crime or the edge of existence)...

...which I didn't agree with, because sometimes you have to make certain comparisons just to make things clearer, I guess. 🙂

John Adams4 said:sometimes you just have to make some comparisons to make things clearer

Aha, yeah, that’s crystal clear. 🤣 🤣 Sometimes you gotta. For Christ's sake.

Someone already posted something pretty similar, but I don't want to go hunting for it;
If the government can get involved in selling drugs (and unfortunately, that hasn't just been a wartime thing), then they can certainly carve out some funding for recovery rooms.
In San Francisco, there’s this harm reduction program run by an association called Help where they hand out supplies and collect used gear. Look, I don't know exactly how effective it is, but isn't any progress better than just standing still?!
Speaking from experience, any kind of help for someone struggling with addiction—from a supportive word to actual concrete action—isn't just welcome; sometimes it’s literally the difference between life and death.
To the trolls who think addicts are just dirty, mean criminals: you've already said enough things that I actually agree with. I'll admit, it stung when I first read that, and my gut reaction was to fire back just as nasty. But why waste the breath? Ignorant people have always reacted out of fear, and they probably don't even realize they're just exposing their own misery with those malicious comments.
The masses, being the masses, think they're all protected. It honestly feels like stupidity is what keeps most people from ever having to face painful realities... but hey, maybe a few words will actually reach someone... 😢

Just so you know, for that lady nick-madam 😵 and all the other self-appointed moral crusaders out there: back when I was going through my phase trying every drug available—which lasted a while—I wasn't just working and paying into the system; I was paying massive amounts of tax. I spent money on more than just survival; I lived a lifestyle way above the average citizen, so my conscience is perfectly clear. Don't give me that crap about "paying into it." Besides, most addicts I know today actually hold down jobs!
Now that I'm clean and no longer part of that world, I gladly contribute to those poor souls who are social cases, whether they're using or not. I know they are products of society, just like the snobbish elites (who control my money just as much) are the exact opposite.
I'd much rather be the one giving first, whereas I only give to others because, in my value system, they are a necessary evil.
See how everything comes down to experience.
I’d suggest anyone throwing their intelligence around to take a moment to "get a grip," because life can flip on you in a heartbeat. And usually, it's the ones who were throwing stones without a second thought who end up getting hit by the bill.