CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online log in · register
Home › Lifestyle › Health › Healthcare in this country is a joke!

Healthcare in this country is a joke!

Started by frozenpilot2 · · 👁 10 views · 44 replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants frozenpilot2rustymoose54stormylynx14Michael Cox40Morgan Williams4Frank Cooper47frozenlynx33Jose Miller3nimbleskipper13Christian Sanchez44Laura Evans3Jeffrey Edwards5Scott Allen10jadesailor14Jamie Clark74slyviper47lonecrane25
nimbleskipper13 nimbleskipper13 Member
34 messages
joined Feb 2005
#21 ·
No, Michael Cox40, I think the people with the most impact are the voters—the ones who elect the government that appoints the Secretary of Health and shapes social policy.
Here’s an example: I’m a specialist running a surgical outpatient clinic. We handle pretty much everything, from initial exams and diagnostics to full surgical procedures. Our billing is standardized; essentially, every exam or procedure is assigned a specific number of points. There’s a monthly cap, say 5,000 points per team, just as an example. If we exceed that, Medicare DOES NOT PAY us for the extra work; they only pay for those 5,000 points and not a cent more (a point is worth roughly $2.00). Of course, if we do less than the cap, we get paid for what we actually did. That revenue has to cover our overhead, supplies, medication, and the team's gross salaries.
However, if a patient comes in at the end of the month after we’ve already hit our quota—say, someone with an urgent hand tendon injury—I am required to see them. That’s fine, but I also have to use a significant amount of expensive medical supplies on them. When that happens, Medicare DOES NOT REIMBURSE me for those supplies, which means I’m directly in the red. In short, I’m losing money for my practice.
To put it bluntly, Medicare forces us to limit our patient volume; we can't just see as many people as we are physically capable of treating, but rather only as many as we can afford to supply with medicine and materials.
It’s the same story with primary care. If a patient doesn't visit their doctor often, they don't cost much beyond the standard per-patient fee, but if a doctor has several high-needs patients, everyone loses.
A friend of mine, who is a family practitioner, had a patient with pancreatic cancer who was suffering for a long time. She was providing analgesics, dressing his wounds from being bedridden... basically, the material costs (medication, bandages, gas for the car to make home visits) exceeded $5.00 per month. When she sent a formal request to Medicare asking for reimbursement (she receives about $10 per patient monthly, out of which she has to pay utilities, rent, meds, supplies, and her nurse's salary), she was told she couldn't receive anything beyond the standard per-patient rate. They basically implied it wasn't their problem if she was unlucky enough to have a patient with such intensive needs. Naturally, the patient is entitled to care, and you cannot and should not bill them for it. Luckily, she has a husband who owns a retail business, so she didn't go hungry...
The typical patient looking to claim their rights usually doesn't realize this... though I think people really ought to know. Every coin has two sides....
Laura Evans3 Laura Evans3 Member
47 messages
joined Dec 2008
#22 ·
I was going through what felt like a pre-heart attack episode, and my elderly neighbors called 911... only for the doctor to tell them they wouldn't be coming out because I was "too young" to be having a heart attack. 🙂 Absolute cowards....

If it wasn't for my neighbor who drove me straight to the ER, I’d probably be six feet under right now....

Slightly off-topic, but still... 😁
Michael Cox40 Michael Cox40 Member
44 messages
joined Mar 2003
#23 ·
@nimbleskipper13/">@@nimbleskipper13: Look, I don't even have health insurance right now because they dropped me from the unemployment rolls. Technically, I’m still unemployed, but since I couldn't check in with them every single month like some kind of mindless drone, they just cut me off. Now I'm stuck in this weird limbo where I have zero coverage. Seriously, think back to who decided to purge people from the system like that—whose "brilliant" idea was it to pull a move straight out of a failed socialist playbook? It would take forever to explain why checking in regularly isn't always feasible, and honestly, I don't even care anymore. None of the administrations we've had were any good, and I certainly don't see anyone competent enough to actually run things and navigate politics at the same time.
That’s why I find myself thinking more and more that moving abroad might be my best bet. Even if social policies in other places aren't exactly a dream—I've spent time in Germany, and let me tell you, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows—at least some parts of life are better organized elsewhere. I only get one shot at this life, and I have no intention of wasting it getting worked up over pure stupidity.
Jeffrey Edwards5 Jeffrey Edwards5 Active Member
74 messages
joined Dec 2004
#24 ·
Christian Sanchez44 said:I see a private OBGYN who isn't cheap, but I'm still registered with Medicare because you have to be registered somewhere. That doctor is supposed to issue prescriptions covered by insurance... however, the way the nurse brushed me off over the phone was basically: "Look, lady, if you can afford private doctors, you can surely afford to just buy your own meds."

I’d probably struggle at first, but it wouldn't take long before I told that "lady" she’s being nothing short of a criminal. She can't just ignore her responsibilities; she HAS to help her own patients.
Or, I’d just politely ask her to get my file ready so I can swing by in five minutes, and tell her to go find some other patients to hit her quota with.
frozenlynx33 frozenlynx33 Newcomer
1 message
joined Oct 2005
#25 ·
nimbleskipper13 said:....
Usually, the patient showing up to demand what’s rightfully theirs just doesn't get it... though, honestly, I think people really ought to be more informed. Every coin has two sides, after all....

I’m right there with you regarding how we choose our own "luck," but when politics enters the fray? Everyone ends up being played—cheated, even. You can't trust a soul anymore.
The masses—and let’s call them what they are: sheep—always outvote the thinkers, which is why we end up stuck with this kind of government and policies that seem designed to serve themselves rather than the public.
Every medal has two sides, much like people have two faces—one they show while talking, and another while they’re actually acting.

nimbleskipper13 said:Here’s an example—I’m a specialist running a surgical outpatient clinic. We handle pretty much everything, from basic checkups and diagnostics right through to actual surgical procedures.

This is the part of medicine I value most: providing tangible help—patching someone up, saving a life—for those who fell victim to a momentary lapse in judgment or someone else's mistake. It’s a vital pillar of healthcare that we absolutely cannot live without, and it ties directly into those cost-cutting scenarios you mentioned in your post.

The heaviest financial burden on the healthcare system comes from people who completely neglect their own well-being, only showing up once something finally "breaks." They come looking for some "magic pill" solution, despite the fact that doctors are often genuinely powerless in those moments. We end up burning through massive amounts of money on various medications that don't even yield results—eventually, the drugs themselves become the problem—and as funds dwindle, help is ultimately denied to the people who truly need it most.

The Italian Ministry of Health (and I'm speaking from first-hand information here) has already realized that investing in prevention is going to save them a fortune compared to trying to fix the fallout later.
Michael Cox40 Michael Cox40 Member
44 messages
joined Mar 2003
#26 ·
I didn't have much time tonight, nor the energy to write, but I wanted to weigh in on that situation nimbleskipper13 posted about her friend. Honestly, kudos to her, because my experience was night and day. My grandmother found herself in a similar spot—not the same illness, obviously, but she required daily wound care, along with various topical treatments and meds applied to her legs. Her primary care physician basically told us flat out that she wasn't paid to come by every single day and that we’d just have to figure it out ourselves. The only options left were to hire a private home health nurse—who are their own separate entity and don't deal with Medicare at all—or just wait for her to pass away. Grandma was living on a tiny Social Security check; if we hadn't footed the bill, she would have died four years earlier. And trust me, she would have suffered significantly more than she did during those final stages. It's hard to talk about "quality of life" in a vacuum, but she had far more of it than if she'd been left to fend for herself with nothing but a once-a-week visit from a doctor. Sure, there are two sides to every coin, and some patients are acutely aware of the limitations, being told directly that their doctor isn't compensated for certain tasks and won't do them. On top of all that, there was never an opening in a rehab facility, and when we checked the hospital, they said her case wasn't for them. So, to hell with Medicare (and that doctor, I don't even know what to say about her), we paid for the care. We don't regret it for a second, but you see, not everyone is lucky like your friend. Some people will just abandon a patient to their own devices, even when they know exactly how dire the circumstances are.
nimbleskipper13 nimbleskipper13 Member
34 messages
joined Feb 2005
#27 ·
Michael Cox40, if I’m following you correctly, your grandmother has leg ulcers—likely due to diabetes—that require dressing with alginate or hydrocolloid bandages.
Well, according to a specialist's recommendation (whether it's a surgeon or a dermatologist), she HAS A RIGHT to receive those dressings covered by Medicare, just as she is entitled to home health nursing care.

That’s the core of the issue: people simply don't know what their rights are or how to advocate for them. There is the Patient Bill of Rights, along with specific regulations regarding orthopedic aids and medical supplies provided at Medicare's expense. This includes everything from glucose test strips to urine bags, stool bags, adult diapers for the immobile, and those alginate or hydrocolloid dressings. While the approved list changes periodically, you have to stay informed—there are various patient advocacy groups and Medicare offices where officials are required to provide information or printed guides.

Just like any other profession, there are people in our field who don't do their jobs properly, who don't care, or who simply lack the necessary expertise...
Scott Allen10 Scott Allen10 Regular
315 messages
joined Jun 2005
#28 ·
Honestly, I don't think it works that way at all. If a surgeon or a dermatologist—or any specialist, really—gives you a recommendation, isn't it basically the primary responsibility of your family doctor to sit down, look at those specialist findings, and figure out what’s actually covered and what isn't?

I mean, why on earth should someone who's already dealing with aging, disability, or just being plain sick have to jump through hoops? It shouldn't be on them to call up random services, nonprofits, or even try to navigate the maze of Medicare just to make sense of all the constant policy shifts, rule changes, and bureaucratic nonsense... basically all those Medicare loopholes they use to muddy the waters just to save a buck.
It’s strictly the job of the family doctor; if they actually take the time to read the specialist's report, they should be able to tell you straight up—this is covered, and this is something you'll have to pay for out of pocket since the Institute won't touch it.
Michael Cox40 Michael Cox40 Member
44 messages
joined Mar 2003
#29 ·
nimbleskipper13 said:Michael Cox40, if I’m following you correctly, your grandmother had those leg sores—venous ulcers, likely stemming from diabetes—that require specialized dressings like alginate or hydrocolloid.
Well, if a specialist (like a surgeon or dermatologist) signs off on it, she is legally ENTITLED to have those bandages covered by Medicare, just like she’s entitled to home health nursing services.

She did have wounds, sure, but she wasn't diabetic. To be honest, I don't know the exact diagnosis, but eventually, it reached the bone, and at that point, there was nothing left to be done. It felt like years of lingering issues that just finally hit a breaking point.
Believe me, she didn't have any right to any of that extra coverage, other than a tiny little supplement added to her Social Security check intended for caregiver assistance—and let me tell you, it was a joke.
Look, my parents were college graduates; they weren't exactly clueless when it came to researching their own rights or the rights of their parents. That small supplement was the absolute limit of what they could secure. Legally, there was nothing else. But if it had just been my grandmother, as Scott Allen10 pointed out, she wouldn't have even seen that pennies-on-the-dollar amount because nobody in the system bothers to tell anyone what they are actually owed.
Michael Cox40 Michael Cox40 Member
44 messages
joined Mar 2003
#30 ·
Look, frozenlynx33, do me a favor and just move on whenever the topic shifts to my late grandmother or her old sermons. Just keep scrolling.
If people with your attitude were around, she would’ve kicked the bucket a lot sooner; instead, she managed to make it all the way to 85.
nimbleskipper13 nimbleskipper13 Member
34 messages
joined Feb 2005
#31 ·
Scott Allen10 - Is it really a primary care doctor's duty to follow a specialist's recommendation? What happens when that doctor is uncooperative—or, to use Michael Cox40's point, just plain lazy and unwilling to put in the effort?
My assistant deals with high blood pressure, and his GP refused to prescribe the Ebrantil that his cardiologist specifically ordered. The doctor's reasoning? His blood pressure looked normal at the exact moment it was measured (after he'd already taken his medication, obviously). My assistant tried asking another doctor for the prescription instead, but no luck there either. So, what are his options? Just bury his head in the sand and risk a stroke by skipping his meds?
What is the actual point of seeing a specialist or all this talk about the Patient Bill of Rights if we’re still left at the mercy of a general practitioner who can act like a total Mengele?
Are we supposed to just give up because some doctor says, "Sorry, you aren't entitled to this"?

Is it just me, or does it feel like frozenlynx33's old Herbalife "friend" is just showing up in a different outfit? 😈
nimbleskipper13 nimbleskipper13 Member
34 messages
joined Feb 2005
#32 ·
Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing my profession—quite the opposite... but I truly believe patients should be more proactive and better informed about both their rights and their responsibilities under the Patient Bill of Rights. If they did, things would run much smoother for everyone involved.
Michael Cox40 Michael Cox40 Member
44 messages
joined Mar 2003
#33 ·
I’m largely on your side here, nimbleskipper13. Look, when I went in for my shoulder surgery, I knew every single detail. I didn't leave a stone unturned; I interrogated them about every little thing. This time, unlike my first experience, I actually lucked out with an anesthesiologist who sat down and cleared up every last doubt and lingering question I had. Sure, it cost me—I went through a private clinic, as I mentioned—but those deep dives with both the surgeon and the anesthesiologist were worth it. We talked about the procedure itself, the anesthesia as its own beast, the recovery process, and even the potential complications. Beyond just talking to my own medical team, I actually consulted other surgeons and specialists too, just so I could walk into that OR fully prepared and aware of exactly what was coming.
Once the whole thing was wrapped up, the anesthesiologist remarked that dealing with informed patients is always half the battle compared to those who are left in the dark about what they're facing.

But you have to consider the elderly and the chronically ill. There are people who aren't even that old, but for whatever reason, they simply don't have the strength to fight or dig into their rights—and often, they don't have anyone to do it for them. What happens to them? They’re the most vulnerable group of all. These are the people who won't ask about the specifics of a surgery, nor will they demand to know if their Patient Bill of Rights is being respected, simply because they don't know better or just can't.
Morgan Williams4 Morgan Williams4 Member
21 messages
joined Oct 2006
#34 ·
frozenlynx33 says:
I met a woman tonight who managed to drop her tumor markers from 2500 all the way down to 48... in about 5 or 6 months. You really have to hear her talk; she’s absolutely glowing about it.. 🙂

How's your reduction coming along? What kind of experiences are others having with this?

In my case, the markers went negative almost immediately after my first surgery to remove a tumorous testicle. That happened within about 15 days of the procedure. I also know a guy who only dropped from 12.9 to 8 after his first surgery, then had to undergo lymphadenectomy to get it down to 0.8, and didn't see negative markers until he finished chemo. I definitely count myself lucky I didn't have to go through what he did! These numbers vary wildly depending on the person and the specific type of tumor—plus, different tumors usually require monitoring different markers anyway.
nimbleskipper13 nimbleskipper13 Member
34 messages
joined Feb 2005
#35 ·
Michael Cox40 said:But you have to consider the elderly and those struggling with chronic illnesses—people who might not be old, but for whatever reason, just don't have the strength to fight or dig into their legal rights. And often, there's nobody to do it for them. What happens to them? They are the most vulnerable group of all. These are the people who won't ask about the specifics of a surgical procedure or even realize their rights are being violated because they simply don't know better or aren't capable of checking.

See, this is exactly what is broken in our system.
That’s true; that gap definitely exists, and it's significant. But the issue is that this specific group is left entirely dependent on whether an individual doctor chooses to act ethically or not... there really should be a systemic mechanism in place to protect them.
As it stands, they're basically just sheep lost in the fog... if they don't advocate for themselves, no one will. We aren't a social welfare state anymore; everything has shifted toward individual responsibility, leaving it up to how hard someone can fight for themselves. And obviously, that isn't right.
jadesailor14 jadesailor14 Regular
314 messages
joined May 2006
#36 ·
nimbleskipper13 said:Is it just me, or does it feel like frozenlynx33 is just our old Herbalife "friend" wearing a fancy new outfit? 😈

Nah, you're just seeing things.
Christian Sanchez44 Christian Sanchez44 Active Member
67 messages
joined Jul 2005
#37 ·
kemik said:Look, Christian Sanchez44, I respect you, really, but you are being incredibly, deeply wrong here. What you’re describing isn't a systemic failure of the entire healthcare system—it’s just the arrogance and pure rudeness of one single nurse.
I personally know quite a few women who have had their "public" gynecologists write out prescriptions based on what they got from private doctors (after hearing about it here recently, I looked into it and realized it's actually a pretty common practice).

In my opinion, it's a massive mistake—and frankly, unfair—to generalize one person's attitude to represent the whole system.

But aren't individuals what make up the system in the first place?

This was actually my first time trying to get medication covered by Medicare because I am absolutely fed up with paying for EVERYTHING out of pocket—all while having taxes and health insurance premiums sliced straight out of my paycheck.

I had to switch doctors because I was stuck waiting for paperwork at his office for five whole MONTHS. And let me tell you, this was a STUDENT HEALTH CENTER—please, stay far away from there, between the attitude of the nurses and the questionable state of their instruments... I don't even want to go into detail.

Since I started working, I just don't have the luxury of dealing with the slow pace of public doctors, so I'm forced to see private specialists. That $50 for the dentist, $250 for the gynecologist, $30 for the eye doctor, then the stuff for the stomach, the painkillers, the antifungal creams... it adds up. I pay and I pay and I pay... until I finally snapped and decided I was going to demand what I am legally entitled to. A private gynecologist wouldn't have been my first choice if I hadn't been facing a two or three-month wait while dealing with serious uterine complications—not to mention having to argue with the nurse.
Honestly, I was doing them a favor.
They have me on their roster, they collect my premiums, and I'm not even bothering them.
And then, when I ask for an antifungal prescription for the VERY FIRST TIME... do you want to hear what happens?

Forgive me, kemik (and I do respect you too 😉), but I don't think that was okay... and that was just one nurse, and there are probably a hundred more just like her. She didn't gain anything from being difficult—it wasn't in her interest or mine. She could have easily made both our days better just by saying, "Thank you so much, here you go, have a nice day..." instead of picking a fight with me and deciding to ruin both of our evenings.

🙂
frozenlynx33 frozenlynx33 Newcomer
1 message
joined Oct 2005
#38 ·
Morgan Williams4
In my case, my markers went negative almost immediately after the first surgery—you know, when they removed the testicle with the tumor. That was basically about two weeks out from the procedure. But then again, I know a guy who saw his levels drop from 12.9 down to 8 after the initial surgery, only to have to go through a lymphadenectomy just to get them down to 0.8... and even then, he didn't see negative markers until after he finished chemo. So, looking at it that way, I suppose I got pretty lucky by avoiding what he had to endure! It seems like everyone’s recovery is entirely unique—it all depends on the specific type of tumor, and naturally, different tumors usually require monitoring different markers altogether.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know a whole lot about the technical side of things, but I do know some people who were absolutely thrilled with their results.

A good friend of mine had a client who also dealt with a testicular tumor—he’d probably be a better resource for you than I am, really—but from what I gathered, he successfully powered through all his radiation treatments. His body bounced back incredibly fast, and today he’s doing great, completely problem-free and genuinely happy about how everything turned out.

It reminds me of a similar situation involving Lance Armstrong, who managed to overcome that tumor through strict nutritional changes, eventually going on to establish a cancer research foundation and providing massive support to countless others fighting the same battle.
Scott Allen10 Scott Allen10 Regular
315 messages
joined Jun 2005
#39 ·
nimbleskipper13 said:Scott Allen10 - obviously, a primary care doctor should follow what a specialist recommends, but what happens when they’re just being difficult? Like, totally uncooperative? It's exactly like what Vicky said earlier—some doctors just can't be bothered, or frankly, they don't want to put in the effort (and yeah, those types definitely exist!).
Take my assistant, for example. He deals with high blood pressure, and his doctor flat-out refused to prescribe the Ebrantil that his cardiologist specifically ordered. Why? Because at the exact moment he checked his blood pressure—right after the medication had already kicked in, naturally—his reading was normal. So, he had to scramble and find another doctor to write the script, but even then, it wasn't a given... I mean, what else can you do? Just bury your head in the sand and hope for the best, or risk making a scene and going without necessary meds?
What's even the point of seeing specialists or all this talk about patient rights if we're basically left at the mercy of some GP who acts like a tiny version of Mengele?
Are we really supposed to just give up because some lady doctor says, "Nope, you don't qualify"?

Is it just me, or is frozenlynx33 basically our old Herbalife "buddy" in a new disguise? 😈

I'm right there with you on everything you just said. But honestly, we're stepping into the absolute madness that is the American healthcare system.
The guy managed to sidestep the primary doctor because he knows how the system works and has a connection to someone a bit sharper, or maybe just someone willing to do him a favor.
But if you ask me, I’d handle it differently. What if Vicky had just stood her ground and told her GP, "Look, I know I'm entitled to Granuflex and home health care, so just get those vouchers written!"
Or in your assistant's case, if he wasn't a medical pro: "Listen, just because my pressure is fine right now doesn't mean I don't need the Ebrantil, so stop playing games and write the prescription based on the specialist's findings."
But let's be real, how many people would actually dare to push back against someone you've walked into their office to seek help from?
And how are you even supposed to know what's actually covered or free if the primary doctor—who's literally contracted with the fund and should be the expert—tells you otherwise?

I'm pretty sure in 99% of cases, bruising an American doctor's ego like that would just lead to a mountain of headaches, petty nonsense, and enough drama that even someone who knows their rights wouldn't want to deal with.
Even your assistant's situation shows that; he didn't want to start a war with a colleague, so he took the path of least resistance just to get the meds he needed.

Honestly, we could go on forever with this. There are endless examples of the absurdity in the US healthcare system. Beyond the chaos within Medicare and how things are funded, I think the real root of the problem is the state of primary care providers. Aside from a few exceptions, the level of education, expertise, and basic awareness among general practitioners is enough to give anyone a massive headache.
nimbleskipper13 nimbleskipper13 Member
34 messages
joined Feb 2005
#40 ·
Scott Allen10, I assume you’ll agree with this: we don't actually need the Social Security Administration as it stands today.
More than 90% of general practitioners could be phased out entirely; an administrator or a nurse practitioner could handle their workload just fine. Most of them just write referrals and pass patients off to specialists anyway—stomach ache? See a surgeon. High blood pressure? Go to an internist. Fever and diarrhea? Just send them to an infectious disease specialist.
Or they just write prescriptions. Those who claim they actually perform physical exams usually miss the mark completely.
Why is it like this?
First, Medicare is constantly auditing them, counting every penny spent—basically checking if they prescribed expensive brands over generics—and tracking how many patients are out on medical leave. They spend so much time on paperwork they barely have time to actually look at their patients.
Second, because they’re buried under endless reports and forced to memorize bureaucratic regulations, they don't have the bandwidth to stay updated on medical advancements or improve their actual expertise.
Third, the Department keeps pouring gasoline on the fire, causing public outrage by constantly exposing various scandals and "affairs," which leaves SSA employees terrified of being sued.
Then there are those, like you mentioned, who are simply malicious or driven by ego.
And honestly, this whole mess is expensive; it’s a direct reflection of the systemic corruption in the country we live in.
When you really think about it, why would I work myself to the bone, getting my hands dirty for $12 an hour, when I can make that kind of money doing nothing? Why did I spend 27 years in school, through undergrad, med school, and residency, when some semi-literate pro athlete makes more in a single season than I will in my entire lifetime?
As a result, people don't care whether Katie Katich gets Granuflex or a generic alternative, especially if her son owns a successful business or a trade—who cares? He's got the money to pay his own way.

So, how do we fix this? When doctors went on strike, remember how everyone was against us?
Maybe this entire situation is just the price we're all paying now....

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads