Mosley retains control of NASCAR

I wouldn't say he was a total disaster. He definitely had some pretty bright spots along the way, but I guess it’s just time for him—much like Mark 😂—to step aside. He’s turned into this somewhat tedious autocrat, and it might be best if he hands the reins over to a much younger, talented guy (and maybe someone a bit more easy on the eyes 😛 )
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Anyway, Robin Fisher53, what’s your take? 😂

Just imagine if someone even worse comes along (and honestly, it’s looking likely). Then you’ll be sitting there wishing you still had Mosley.

Raymond Carter2 said:Just imagine if someone even worse comes along (which is totally doable). Then you'll be sitting there wishing we still had Mosley.

I don't think anyone could be worse than this.🙄

FJBG
Mr. Ex.President😁

Mr. Ex said:I don't think it gets any worse than this.🙄

FJBG
Mr. Ex😁

Oh, it does. Imagine if Todt takes over his spot (pretty sure that was on the table). What would he even say then?

Henry Anderson47 said:He wasn't all bad, honestly. He had his fair share of brilliant moments, but I think—much like Mark 😂—it’s high time he stepped aside. He’s turned into this tedious little autocrat, and he really needs to hand over the reins to a talented guy who's actually much younger (and ideally, looks a bit better while doing it 😛 )

Anyway, Robin Fisher53, what's your take? 😂

Who are we talking about here? Schumacher? 🙂

Raymond Carter2 said:Oh, he definitely would. Just imagine if Todt was his successor—I think that was actually on the table. What could he possibly say then?

Heheh... Ferrari wouldn't even have a lead car...
But I don't think that'll happen. He even mentioned himself that this feels like a dream job for him. (Man, I'd love to know how much he's actually pulling in🙂

Robin Fisher53 said:Heh... Ferrari wouldn't even have a car without him.
I don't think so... He even said this was his dream job. (Man, I wonder how much he's actually getting paid.)🙂

I'm curious about that too...

Robin Fisher53 said:To be perfectly honest, I think Max Mosley actually made some genuinely solid decisions for Formula 1 that most people have completely overlooked. It’s funny how history works like that—people tend to focus on the controversies, but if you look closely, there were plenty of wins in there. Honestly, which specific ones they were doesn't even really matter; the fact remains that he did some good work for the sport that just hasn't stayed in the public consciousness.😁

Well, that's certainly one way to look at it...

Robin Fisher53 said:That isn't quite the case if you look at how far Formula 1 has come in terms of safety. One major oversight was that last season, they wouldn't let anyone overlook the McLaren MP4-18. It really was a masterpiece of modern design and engineering, and they essentially prevented Kimi from using it to secure that first career championship.👋

He really ought to be more grateful, honestly. If things hadn't gone the way they did, someone could have been seriously injured, or we might not even have had the chance to see Kimmi out there on the track. It’s one of those situations where you realize just how close calls can actually be.

Robin Fisher53 said:It isn't like last year's model that failed its crash test! This year they went with the McLaren MP4-19, so at least their naming conventions are straightforward.😁 The car this year was built on that same core concept, though they had to overhaul the aerodynamics quite significantly to account for the new regulations and a completely different cooling setup necessitated by the new engine. Honestly, if you look at the data, it was the engine itself that forced the car to retire, not any other component. Even with those setbacks, you can see the pace was actually improved—it was running about a second faster than last year's model. It really makes you wonder; if it weren't for those specific safety rules implemented by Max Mosley, Kimi might have walked away with the championship.😁

How can one truly be certain that all those changes have actually been implemented? It’s quite a leap of faith, isn't it? Just because Ron Dennis chooses to share his perspective with the press doesn't mean everything he says is an absolute, verifiable fact. I recall a similar situation back when I was working in corporate consulting in Chicago—everyone was making grand claims about restructuring, yet behind closed doors, nothing had moved an inch. We shouldn't take anything at face value just because it comes from a high-profile source.

To be perfectly honest, I don't see any discernible difference between the McLaren MP4-18, the MP4-18D, the McLaren MP4-19, or even the McLaren MP4-19B. At least, not to my naked eye—and I’ve certainly tried looking with a magnifying glass! 😁 )
When it comes to the engine situation, I truly believe Mercedes-Benz simply made a leap from bad to brilliant. It’s quite fascinating to observe how they managed that kind of trajectory!
For a little while now, I’ve been sitting here wondering why they don't just switch back to last year's setup... honestly, it would probably be much more reliable. It reminds me of that time I tried to upgrade my old lawnmower with those fancy new parts from the local hardware store; I thought I was being clever, but I ended up spending the whole weekend under the chassis when the old, trusty model would have finished the job in half the time. Sometimes, staying with what works is the smartest move you can make. 😁

Raymond Carter2 said:Oh, it certainly could happen. Just imagine if Todt were actually the one to step into his shoes—I believe that was one of the options being floated around at the time. If that scenario actually played out, what on earth do you think he would have said? It’s quite a fascinating thought to ponder.

No matter how much some folks might begrudge Todt because he’s running the show at Ferrari, you have to admit the man is a consummate professional. He brought a level of order, structure, and genuine discipline to the team—especially working alongside DimOntezemol—that just wasn't there before. Honestly, I think she would be incredibly professional in that role herself. It’s a shame, really, because once Max truly settles in and takes hold, I don't see him letting anyone else near that position until he’s completely finished his business there.

Carol Ortiz4 said:He should probably be grateful; otherwise, someone might have ended up hurt, or Kimmi wouldn't even be the second driver...

Not quite. He’d be the first one. Maybe a track marshal would get caught in the crossfire, or... wait a second... yeah, actually, only Villeneuve is capable of taking out a marshal by the side of the track.

Carol Ortiz4 said:Besides, how can you even be sure all those changes were actually made? Just because Dennis says so doesn't mean it's the truth...

😱 You don't seriously think Ron is LYING!! That's a bit much. Ron is an honest man running a massive operation in partnership with the best in the business—yes, I mean Mercedes-Benz. 😁

Carol Ortiz4 said:Personally, I can't see any difference between the McLaren MP4-18, MP4-18D, McLaren MP4-19, or the McLaren MP4-19B... at least not with the naked eye (or even a magnifying glass).

Take a closer look! There is a massive difference between the McLaren MP4-19 and the McLaren MP4-18; the latter was much shorter. It was designed to be the shortest car possible, which is likely why it struggled with crash tests. The McLaren MP4-19B, however, is a huge leap forward in aerodynamics—I'd go as far as calling it a masterpiece. It has the best aero in Formula 1, easily outclassing Ferrari, Renault, and even that underdog team. That's just my humble take. 😁

Carol Ortiz4 said:As for the engines, Mercedes-Benz simply moved from a mediocre setup to a superior one...
I spent some time this year wondering why they didn't just switch back to last year's engine... it would have been more reliable.

Last year's engine wouldn't have lasted through Friday and Saturday. Back then, they were swapping engines after every single session. 😁 This current engine, if they added just a little more power, would be a work of art, but then McLaren would dominate too much. They probably decided to hold off on that until next season, when we'll likely just be watching Montoya and Raikkonen take all the wins.

Carol Ortiz4 said:No matter how much people dislike Todt because he runs Ferrari, he is a true professional who brought order and discipline to the team (alongside DimOntezemol...). I think he would be incredibly professional in that role... unfortunately, once Max settles in, he won't let anyone near that position until he's finished his tenure.

He’s great, truly, but I think he’d be happier heading back to rally racing. 😳 😁

Robin Fisher53 said:No, he’d be the very first one to go. You might even see a track official get caught up in the chaos—no, wait... hold on a second... yeah, actually, yes. Sorry, I just meant that Villeneuve is probably the only one capable of accidentally taking out a marshal standing right by the track.

Well, that’s a bit tasteless, isn't it? 😢
You forgot about Frentzen...

😱 You can't seriously be suggesting that Ron is lying! Honestly, I think you've lost your marbles. Ron is an incredibly honorable man who manages a massive corporation through a partnership with one of the absolute giants in the industry—yes, I’m talking about Mercedes-Benz. 😁

Oh goodness... you know exactly where I stand when it comes to Ron Dennis.

If you take a closer look, there’s actually a massive difference between the McLaren MP4-19 and the McLaren MP4-18. The latter was notably shorter—it was specifically engineered to be an ultra-short chassis, which I suspect might be why it struggled to clear those mandatory crash tests. Now, if we're talking about the McLaren MP4-19B, that model represents a significant leap forward in aerodynamics. Honestly, I’d go as far as calling it a masterpiece. In terms of aerodynamic efficiency, it was truly peerless; even Ferrari, Renault, and the rest of the field were left completely trailing in its wake. But hey, that’s just my humble opinion! 😁

So, according to Newey, the whole reason they failed that crash test was because of those "revolutionary" microscopic spoilers... or at least, that’s the story he's spinning. It reminds me a bit of a time I was working on my old vintage car in the garage back in Ohio; I could swear the engine was fine, but then I'd realize I had one tiny, minuscule bolt loose, and suddenly nothing worked the way it was supposed to. It's funny how those tiny details can derail everything, isn't it? Regardless, that's the official line we're hearing.
I have to ask, what exactly makes you so certain that this is the pinnacle of aerodynamics? I’m curious about where you get your authority on such a complex subject. In my experience, everything in racing is a gradual evolution rather than some sudden, massive revolution. If the car were truly that much better now, we would be seeing the results on the track immediately—but since we aren't, I suppose that settles the argument, doesn't it?

If we were looking at last year's setup, I honestly don't think they would have even made it through Friday and Saturday. It was quite a struggle back then; they were swapping out engines after every single session just to stay in the game.😁 If they had just squeezed a little more power out of this current engine, we would be looking at an absolute masterpiece. But honestly, I suspect they intentionally held back. It feels like they made a strategic call to wait until next season to unleash that kind of dominance—at which point, it’ll likely just be a two-man show with Montoya and Raikkonen picking up all the wins.

And how much did this year's guy actually endure? He survived half a qualifying session at Indianapolis Motor Speedway and maybe 5% of the actual race... which is to say, about five laps. 😁

I agree, he really is a fantastic talent—I just can't help but think he’d be even better if he decided to head back into rally racing.😳 😁

I honestly don't think he needs it... if he decides to move on after Formula 1, he'll probably just tuck that money away for retirement. I have a feeling he’s sitting on more cash than me, you, and everyone else on this entire forum combined... all within a single month's paycheck.

Carol Ortiz4 said:He didn't pass the crash tests because of those "revolutionary" tiny spoilers... at least that's what Newey claims...
How can you be so sure their aerodynamics are the best? Since when did you become such an "authority" on this stuff? Come on, please, it's all just evolution, not some massive revolution. If they were actually that much better, we'd see it in the results, but they aren't, so there you go...

How do I know? Because it's Newey, and everyone agrees he's the gold standard in the field. They barely managed to keep him in Formula 1 back in '99 because he was getting bored and wanted to try his hand at the America's Cup sailing. Plus, their engine is a bit underpowered compared to the competition like BAR or Ferrari, yet they're pulling up equal or even better lap times than them (they had pole position last race and the fastest lap during the race).

Anđeo said:How can I be sure? Well, because we're talking about Newey, and everyone pretty much agrees he’s the gold standard. They could barely keep him in Formula 1 back then because he was getting bored by 1999 and actually wanted to try his hand at the America's Cup sailing. On top of that, their engine is slightly underpowered compared to the competition—like BAR or Ferrari—yet they're still pulling up with equal or even better lap times (remember, they took pole last race and set the fastest lap during the race this time).

Honestly, you're overhyping Newey... and even if he is great, it doesn't mean as much as you think. He might be a top aerodynamics expert, but I say that from my own professional experience in the field. Back in that '97-'99 era, calculating aerodynamics required massive 400MHz computing power just to get things moving; if you could manage those calculations back then, you were truly elite.

Nowadays, it's practically child's play; I could probably run most of it on my home computer while prepping for a triathlon... though, speaking professionally, even someone at a beginner level like me could design near-perfect aerodynamics. Still, I'll admit Newey has the experience (just like the rest of the crew in Formula 1). I really think it's a bit of an insult to the massive teams of people working on the car to claim that Newey is the sole reason for its success.

I mean, have you ever actually seen how this work gets done? He functions more as a manager; he provides the direction and makes the big calls, but he isn't doing every single task himself... anyway, I suppose I've gone off on a bit of a tangent there.

By the way, I wouldn't put too much stock in pole position lately; it hasn't meant much over the last two years. In today's climate, Button's third-place qualifying time carries more weight than a Schumacher pole position used to.

But moving on to what actually matters... McLaren has definitely improved, but they proved today that for a "legendary" outfit, they're letting far too many amateur mistakes slip through the cracks.

Has anyone else heard this rumor? Apparently, Ross Brawn mentioned they already had about 80% of next year's car finished, but they had to toss the whole thing into the smeće because of the new regulations.

Personally, I find it disgraceful that NASCAR releases rules for the following season months before the new car prototypes are even ready. Max Mosley is absolute smeće!!!!!

Carol Ortiz4 said:You've already done Newey dirty... and even today, that doesn't really mean much because he's just the top aerodynamics expert, which I can tell you since that's actually what I do for a living... back in the '97-'99 era, we were working with 400MHz machines that were absolute beasts, so if you could calculate aerodynamics on those, you were truly something else...

Nowadays, I can handle it easily on my home Athlon... but when I'm doing this professionally, even as a beginner, I can design almost perfect aerodynamics... still, Newey has the experience (just like the huge teams in Formula 1)... and honestly, I think it's quite an insult to the massive amount of people working on a car to claim Newey is the sole reason for its success...

Man, have you ever actually seen how it's done? He's the team manager; he directs and makes the calls, he doesn't do EVERYTHING himself... but I guess I've gone a bit off-topic here.

Fair enough!👍 You're right, I have no clue how the technical side works; I'm just a fan😁 who appreciates Newey for "his" titles with Williams and McLaren. By the way, did you end up getting that job?

Carol Ortiz4 said:But moving on to the important stuff... McLaren has improved, but they proved today that too many amateur mistakes are slipping through for such a "legendary" team...

True, but Ron Dennis isn't to blame for everything.

Carol Ortiz4 said:By the way, has anyone heard this: Ross Brawn mentioned they already had 80% of next year's car finished, but they had to throw the whole thing in the trash due to the new regulations...

Personally, I think it's a disgrace that NASCAR releases rules for the next season only a few months before the new prototypes are even ready... Max Mosley is SMEĆE!!!!!

Well, even Dennis said back in month four that they were working on three cars—the current one, the B-spec, and the car for next season. So they'll probably have to send all of that to the recycling center too! 😁

Carol Ortiz4 said:but when I'm working on this professionally, even as a beginner, I can design near-perfect aerodynamics...

Otherwise, I honestly think it's a disgrace that NASCAR releases the rules for next season months before we even see the prototypes for the new cars... Max Mosley is SMEĆE!!!!!

So why don't you just go get a job at, say, Haas? They could really use some of that "near-perfect" aerodynamics of yours. 🙂
Plus, you'd probably make a decent paycheck too...

I agree with the rest of you, though... he really is just one big, basic piece of trash. 🙂

Angel said:Ok!👍 To be perfectly honest, I haven't the slightest clue how any of this actually works; I’m really just a huge fan. 😁 Everyone seems to hold Newey in such high regard, mostly because of those incredible championship runs he pulled off with Williams and McLaren. It’s hard to argue with that kind of track record, though. On a side note, did you ever end up landing that job?

It’s certainly true that Newey is a brilliant mind, but I can't help but feel that in modern Formula 1, the influence of any single individual has been drastically diminished. It’s quite a shift from how things used to be. You only have to listen to the constant media circus surrounding the drivers to see how much the spotlight has shifted toward them. And honestly, even if we assume these certain individuals are truly indispensable, one has to wonder about the logic of it all. If they were really that much more important than everyone else, why wouldn't the teams just hand over the entire budget to them and let the other 200 people go? It seems a bit impractical, doesn't it? I remember reading an article once about corporate restructuring in large US manufacturing firms, and it touched on a similar idea regarding specialized talent versus the sheer scale of the workforce required to actually build a product. At the end of the day, you need the whole team to cross the finish line.

It seems we’ve reached that stage of "we’ll get back to you." I heard that their processing time can be quite a bit of a wait... A good acquaintance of mine mentioned they didn't even hear back from them for an entire month, so, well... one just has to be patient, I suppose.

That’s certainly true, though I don't think we can lay all the blame at Ron's feet. It wasn't entirely his doing.

I understand that point, but I just can't bring myself to like it, which is exactly why I think the blame rests squarely on him, D Quote.

Well, you know, back then, even Ron mentioned as early as the fourth month that they were splitting their focus between three different cars—the current one, the MP4-19B, and the car for the following season. It’s quite a massive undertaking when you think about it. They’re essentially going to have to start from scratch and recycle everything to make it work. I remember a similar situation back when I was working on a major project in Chicago; we thought we had everything lined up, only to realize we had to pivot and rebuild our entire workflow mid-stream. It's a lot of pressure to stay ahead of the curve like that! 😁

It seems they’ve put all their energy into perfecting the current car rather than looking ahead, whereas Ferrari actually called it quits on this model over two months ago to pour everything into next year's build!

Robin Fisher53 said:So, I was just thinking—if you’re that confident in your theories, why don't you go ahead and apply for a job over at, say, Haas? They could certainly use someone with your level of insight regarding their near-perfect aerodynamics. Honestly, it might be a perfect match!🙂
And wouldn't that have been quite a windfall... just think of the money that could have been raked in.

I find myself in complete agreement with what Robin Fisher53 mentioned earlier... honestly, that thing is just absolute smeće. 🙂

Haha! I’m actually scouting around for some action in that sector right now, but honestly, Formula 1 feels like a bit much for me at this stage. It isn't even about the design work itself; it's more about the sheer weight of responsibility. If you make one massive screw-up on live TV, nobody is ever going to give you a second look. I think it might be wiser to spend maybe ten years building up some solid experience first before jumping into the deep end. 😁 😁

Tommy said:Ha!! I’m looking for some action in that field right now, but Formula 1 is just a bit much for me... it’s not even about the design, it’s more about the pressure. If you screw up once, you're finished. You're better off putting in ten years of experience first before you try to 😁 😁

😂