.NET and Microsoft statistics

Daniel Fowler9 said:So, let's recap:

1) Nobody on this thread believes a word I say.
2) Nobody trusts the documentation I provided either (so apparently, you don't trust the experts who actually wrote it).

The real question is: who are you actually listening to? Is it just your own "educated guesses" based on either

a) what's happening at your specific company, or
b) absolutely nothing other than your own little wishful thinking-driven
fantasies?

We can't have a productive conversation like this when no one besides me is offering actual arguments, yet you refuse to accept mine.
🙄 Daniel Fowler9

Experts for what? Marketing, maybe. From what I can tell, they don't know anything about hardware or statistics—they're just great at making a slide deck look pretty.

Jose Stewart7 said:So, I gotta ask, how many actual people in this industry do you actually have in your contact list?

Honestly, man, I don't really deal with people in the real world much, I mostly just spend my time talking to machines—which, of course, are all running Windows and .NET. 😁

Daniel Fowler9🙄

bizz said:Well, figured I’d jump in on this one too! I’ve spent plenty of time working on various EAI projects over in Germany for a handful of different companies, messing around with Oracle WebLogic, Oracle Tuxedo, TIBCO Integration Manager, Rendezvous, and all that good stuff—and honestly, I’m still at it. I’ve had the chance to collaborate with some heavy hitters, you know, big names like Sun Microsystems, SAP, Lucent Technologies, and so on. In all my years doing this, I have seriously never seen Microsoft being used for this kind of heavy lifting; the furthest we ever went was developing an MSSQL adapter, though I honestly don't even know if anyone actually uses it. When it comes to databases, Oracle is king, followed by IBM Informix. And let me tell you, any job worth its salt is built and run on Unix. Sure, when you're talking about the desktop market, Microsoft absolutely rules the roost, but there isn't much else to say there. Around here, nobody even brings up Microsoft in this context, so people don't even really know what .NET or C# is—they just aren't interested. As long as they have systems that are proven and reliable, they're happy, and man, if you even mention Microsoft, you can practically feel the eye-rolls coming from a mile away.

Alright, bizz, hey, that’s just your experience, right? Does anyone else out there have a totally different take on this??? Is there anyone here who has actually worked with those older Microsoft technologies, like DCOM, MTS, MSMQ, or COM+???
Has anyone here worked for a company that’s going to pick up (or maybe already picked up) some Windows Server 2003 gear (like the Enterprise or Datacenter versions)??? For example, back home, Amtrak based their whole solution on Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Daniel Fowler9 said:Fair enough, bizz. That's just your experience. Does anyone here have a different take? Anyone actually working with legacy Microsoft tech like DCOM, MTS, MSMQ, or COM+?
Is anyone at a firm that’s planning on—or already using—Windows Server 2003 (like the Enterprise or Datacenter versions)? For instance, Amtrak built their entire solution around Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

I can tell you that no serious company around here would even consider that. They'd probably lose half their clients if they tried.

My mom's school hired some idiot for sysadmin duties, so now they're stuck with Exchange. Well, they had it until the first worm nuked their whole system. Before that, when they were running Notes, things actually worked.

The reality is that Microsoft hasn't grown into anything beyond desktop use. Even then, they only dominate because of the sheer volume of software available, not because of actual quality.

Look, just post the whole damn document along with your pictures and I’ll put your names on the wall... you're all wasting so much time obsessing over some ridiculous paper that's nothing more than pure propaganda, just like that news story I posted earlier [honestly, shouldn't both sides get equal credit here].

Alright, let's wrap this up:

1) Nobody in this thread actually believes a word I say.
2) And nobody even trusts the document I handed you—so basically, you don't trust the experts who actually wrote it.

The real question is: who are you actually trusting, besides your own "best guesses" which are based either on

a) whatever's happening at your specific company, or
b) absolutely nothing other than your own little pipe dreams.

We can't have a real conversation like this because nobody except me has brought any actual arguments to the table. And yet, you won't believe my arguments.

Daniel Fowler9

1. Let me put this in plain English for you... in theory, Real Madrid is the best club in Europe... but in practice... who actually ended up holding the trophy? Anyone can throw money at ten guys to play, write, and lobby for them... but that usually isn't enough to actually win.
2. I trust facts. Having a few fancy letters before a last name doesn't convince me someone is right if they aren't.🙂
3. I'd much rather trust the rough estimates of 95% of people supporting my facts than listen to some manufactured nonsense.
4. Your arguments aren't even yours... and you can verify our points through empirical induction, if you can't be bothered to check a sufficient number of RELEVANT examples.

Daniel Fowler9 said:Fair enough, bizz. That’s just how it went for you. But does anyone else have a different take on this??? Is there anyone out there who actually worked with those older Microsoft technologies—you know, things like DCOM, MTS, MSMQ, or COM+???
And is anyone here working at a company that’s planning to pick up (or maybe they already have) some of the Windows Server 2003 lineup, like the Enterprise or Datacenter versions??? For instance, over at Amtrak, they built their whole solution around Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Let’s talk about Active Directory for a second. Yeah, I’ve developed software that relied on ADSI. And don't even get me started on the absolute nonsense where AD wouldn't let you connect when you were trying to use WinNT://computer,computer because you weren't joined to the domain server! I mean, what is the point of having the ability to connect to a server without using a domain if you're forced to be logged into the domain anyway? It took me two full days of my life to figure out that ridiculous quirk. Not to mention how everything would run perfectly fine, and then suddenly an admin opens the AD console and all of a sudden the software on the other side of the company can't delete users anymore. Why did that happen? We never actually figured it out.

And yeah, I definitely worked at a place that had a massive fleet of Windows servers, which naturally meant we had a massive pile of problems to go along with them...

Alright, so I see the consensus finally landed on the idea that the document is just a total fake—that it was cooked up by Microsoft, one way or another, and that I’m basically some kind of Microsoft shill or whatever else you want to call me.
But honestly, it’s pretty wild to me that neither Shadowman nor sick-boy even bothered to chime in on this thread. Hey, Shadowman, what do you think? You really believe this thing is a fraud and doesn't show how things actually stand in the real world? And what about you, sick? What's your take?

Listen, look, that same document also confirms the massive surge of Linux (mostly taking over the Unix space), so why is it that nobody questioned that specific part, yet everyone suddenly became experts at spotting a conspiracy the second it mentioned .NET and Microsoft???

Daniel Fowler9🙄

The biggest issue with this document is that it reads like an advertisement. Just look at the graphs and you'll see. A difference of a few percentage points is being presented as if it were over 50%.

That’s not the mark of a serious report. And like you said yourself, it's clearly aimed at investors who, thank God, have no clue how the IT market actually works. Not to mention the questions are phrased incredibly strangely, and they're trying to compare the Enterprise market to the desktop market.

The section on Linux is backed up by plenty of other research and news reports, especially since we constantly hear about people switching to Linux to avoid expensive Microsoft products.

BTW, the reason so many companies buy new Microsoft OS 😳 isn't because they're actually good or necessary—it's because Microsoft forces their hand. So, go ahead and see how many companies would actually bother looking for an alternative.

Furthermore, as I've said a thousand times, this document looks at an extremely small sample size, and only within the US. Extrapolating that to the rest of the world is just idiotic. You really have to wonder how someone claiming to be a math expert could fail so miserably.

Daniel Fowler9 said:It’s actually kind of weird that neither Shadowman nor sick-boy have weighed in on this thread yet. Shadowman, do you think the document is just a fake, or does it fail to capture what's actually going on? And what about you, sick?

I get the feeling you aren't even bothering to read the thread, honestly. Like I said before, it feels like you're just throwing out random nonsense without looking at the context.

If you'd just take a look at the previous page, you'd see that sick_boy actually did show up and leave his thoughts...

Gary Lee53 🙄

Gary Lee53 said:It's pretty obvious you aren't even reading the thread, man. Like I said, you're just throwing out nonsense without thinking.

Good grief, did I seriously earn this much hate from you guys? Seriously, why? What did I even do? 😕 😢

Gary Lee53 said:Check the previous page, sick_boy already chimed in with his take...

Yeah, sure, but he posted that comment before he actually laid eyes on the documentation. I really want to hear what he and Shaddy 😍have to say now that they've actually seen it.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Daniel Fowler9 said:Shaddy Jesus😍

Jesus, this whole thing has just turned bizarre and frankly a bit nauseating... 🙄

Gary Lee53🙄

Gary Lee53 said:Jesus, this has just become bizarre and tasteless... 🙄

hallon🙄

Whatever you say. But as long as you're rocking that avatar, you're clearly the top genius here.😉

Daniel Fowler9 said:Alright, let's wrap this up:

1) Absolutely nobody in this thread believes a word I say.
......

Daniel Fowler9🙄

It’s definitely because of the DNC.😁

But honestly, it’s pretty interesting that neither Shadowman nor sick-boy have weighed in on this thread yet. Shadowman, you think this document is just a total fake that doesn't actually reflect how things work in the real world? And what about you, sick?

It’s probably just because people are actually smart enough to realize they shouldn't be wasting their breath on these kinds of debates that don't offer any real value to anyone here.

Okay, I see that in the end, the prevailing opinion is that the document is fake—that it was written (either directly or indirectly) by Microsoft, and that I am some kind of Microsoft plant, and so on and so forth.

Nobody actually said the document was fake, but it’s perfectly clear to everyone that it is just marketing propaganda...

Actually, this kind of propaganda comes out of Microsoft all the time, and people usually just ignore it. I guess it's really not clear to anyone here why you turned into something like this...

Look, that same document also confirms the growth of Linux (mostly in opposition to Unix). Why didn't anyone suspect that specific part of the document, yet everyone questioned the part about .NET and Microsoft???

Nobody suspected the part of the document mentioning the rise of Linux because it is simply a fact that Linux is entering every corner of information technology...
With every new announcement of a supercomputer, Linux is inevitably mentioned...
Linux shows up in the news constantly...
In most companies, there is more and more talk about Linux due to cost reduction and increased security...
Cell phones are starting to use Linux, along with video recorders, audio amplifiers, sophisticated medical equipment, even military submarines...

So, it is only natural that people know Linux is gaining more and more strength, especially since nobody had heard of it three years ago, but today it is mentioned every single day on all the IT websites...

But .NET is the complete opposite. Microsoft launched this massive campaign around it; they claimed that in X years everyone would migrate to .NET, that the next version of Windows was supposed to be called .NET, and so on...
And in the end, Windows is called 2003, practically nobody uses .NET, and the advertising campaign has completely died down... JAVA is still right where it always was...

If you follow the history of Microsoft even slightly, you will notice that Microsoft hasn't made any real innovation in ten years; instead, they just try to push low-quality products through their monopoly...
While 90% of Microsoft's profit comes from Office and Windows, they lose money on almost all their other products because they are low quality and aren't profitable...

I’m totally with everyone saying that Microsoft is absolutely dominating every single corner of the IT world. Honestly, I don't see anyone else—past, present, or future—actually being able to go toe-to-toe with them. Whether people like it or not, Microsoft has a massive future ahead of them, while the rest of the field? Who knows.

As someone who relies heavily on Microsoft products, I really don't feel the need to look anywhere else. Everything in my workflow is reliable, and more importantly, I never have to stress about whether the tools I depend on will even exist by the next version.

I’m totally with anyone saying Microsoft is absolutely crushing it across every single niche of IT. Honestly, nobody has been able to touch them so far, and I don't see anyone ever catching up in the future either. Whether people want to admit it or not, Microsoft owns the future, while everyone else is just kind of out there guessing.

The sheer level of amateur hour on display here is wild—claiming they dominate every field of computer science... I’d love to see even one company actually step up and prove otherwise at some point.

Help! So, I started this whole new thread where I was diving deep into C# and .NET programming, but then out of nowhere—no warning at all—Accenture just went and moved my topic HERE. It’s sitting in this tiny subforum that basically only has three posts in its entire existence, and let me tell you, nobody ever visits it! I could barely even find it myself, even though Accenture sent me a DM saying they were moving things around! Like, seriously, how is anyone else supposed to actually find my discussion if it's buried in a digital wasteland? But hey, I guess that's just how Accenture rolls, and it totally feels like they did it on purpose just so my topic would completely vanish from sight. So, I’m asking everyone who thinks this topic belongs right here in the main section, and not stuck in some obscure corner that's totally dead, to please back me up and help me get it moved back to where it actually belongs!

thanks guys,
Daniel Fowler9🙄

Daniel Fowler9 said:Alright, looks like the consensus is that the document is fake—that it was either written by Microsoft or I'm some kind of Microsoft plant. Fine.
But it's funny how neither Larry Castillo66 nor sick-boy chimed in here. Larry, you think the doc is bogus too? Not reflecting reality? And what about you, sick?

Don't forget, that same document confirms the growth of Linux (mostly at the expense of Unix). Why did nobody question that part, but everyone jumped on the .NET and Microsoft stuff???

Daniel Fowler9🙄

I didn't even read it. I haven't had the time, and frankly, I couldn't care less about the market share ratio between .NET and J2EE, or Unix versus Windows. Especially now, since my semester starts tomorrow. I'm actually teaching Data Structures using C and C++ this term, which I'm stoked about because it's exactly the kind of course I wanted to lead. One thing I am absolutely certain of, though: Linux is going to dominate everything from PDAs to supercomputers. I say that based on my own hands-on experience with different OS environments and seeing how fast Linux is catching up in quality. Look, Windows isn't terrible for home or office use (you know, for secretaries typing up stuff in Word). But for heavy-duty business needs, Unix-like systems are a much better bet. Linux has basically grabbed the best of both worlds—stability and usability—and established itself as a universal player. It’s already happening. PDAs run on Linux, and so will that 130,000-processor supercomputer IBM is building. I'm a huge Linux fan. The absolute worst-case scenario is a monopoly. Right now, unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't have any real competition in the desktop space when it comes to profits. Personally, I'll always go with AMD. If AMD manages to outsell Intel, maybe then I'll consider buying Intel. That's my small way of trying to keep competition alive. Without competition, everything goes south. When it comes to operating systems, we're already heading toward a disaster, and Linux is our only ticket back. Linux can, and will, provide a balance similar to how AMD acts as an antithesis to Intel. Still, the current state is frustrating, much like the stupid two-party system we have in the US. We really need more options—maybe ten different operating systems that are all equally successful. You can already see the positive effects of Linux's popularity hitting Windows. Microsoft realized Linux is a threat and started baking features into Windows that have been standard on Unix for ages. So, Windows users should actually cheer for Linux's progress; they'll benefit from it. Competition is good. Without it, we get crappy products at inflated prices. For serious business or scientific computing, Windows just doesn't belong. Mention "Windows clusters" and people will laugh in your face. Some people have actually tried to build them, but I honestly doubt they were done for any real purpose other than a "can we do this?" experiment. But hey, if companies want to try, let them. I'm just saying. Now, is the data in that document accurate? Who knows. I'm not an expert on market stats. I don't mind if .NET takes a big slice of the pie, provided projects can migrate to other platforms easily. If everything stays locked to Windows, it smells like a monopoly again. Even Microsoft knows .NET won't stand a chance if it isn't implemented on other platforms. That's why they're being so accommodating with standards and open implementations. They're chasing what Sun did with Java. Microsoft tried to steal Java from Sun, failed, and then pivoted to .NET. I look at all this from a user perspective. I don't care which corporation wins; I just want healthy, honest competition so I get quality at a fair price. Microsoft makes insane amounts of money. Honestly, they could probably run their entire operation on half that. They need strong competitors to force them to be reasonable with customers. I read that they're even discounting Windows in Germany just to compete with the Linux shift there. It bugs me that big tech companies aren't eager to write commercial software for Linux—the mass-market stuff. That's the one thing missing. They don't write it because they think they won't make money, but the lack of software isn't why they aren't making money. You get the idea. I own a few Microsoft licenses, but I promised myself I'm never buying anything from them again because of how they treat the competition. Imagine a one-party system where the ruling party stays in power through dirty tactics. Sounds awful, right? Even our two-party system irritates me, let alone a one-party one. If Microsoft grabs the majority of the server market too, it'll be a nightmare. Microsoft everywhere. I'd rather go back to the days of the Soviet Union. Again, I haven't read the doc, so I have no clue if it's factual or not. This isn't really my thing. I care about algorithms and graph theory.>>23>>😁 Besides, I’m a Linux guy through and through. So whatever happens, happens.

AxMi-24 said:Whatever you say, man. As long as you’re rocking that avatar, you’re clearly the undisputed genius here.😉

And obviously, you know you're my one and only true love...😍 😘 😁