Bahrain Grand Prix (Outer Loop) | December 4-6, 2020

stormybadger8 said:Let's not compare apples to oranges here...
Hulk spent several seasons driving for Force India. He knows every single person on that crew, understands all the team procedures inside out, and knows everything there is to know about the car's setup—including the secrets. It went so far that the engineers at RP openly admitted his input helped their setup. 😳
Basically, they trust his feedback way more than they do Stroll's or Perez's. ☕
It’s a safe bet they had his seat and everything else custom-fitted for him since he was a long-term driver for them...

Russell practically knows nothing about the Mercedes; it's his first time ever seeing the DAS system.
That tiny bit of time he spent in testing isn't exactly "learning how the team functions during qualifying and races" or getting used to the actual procedures...

And no, I wouldn't say the Mercedes is easier to drive than the Williams...
Quite the opposite. The Mercedes is definitely much more complex and complicated when it comes to setup and handling.
The Williams is a basic model, which makes it almost certainly the simplest car possible.
If you mean the Mercedes is more comfortable to drive, then yeah, probably, because the car is more stable and likely "listens" to the driver a lot better than the Williams.
But calling it "easier" to drive? Definitely not.

What are you even rambling about?
It’s been years since Hulk was even in a Force India seat, and let's be real—this current car has absolutely nothing in common with the one he used to drive back then. On top of that, the guy basically flew straight into someone else's car right before the race started. Between that disaster and the fact that he completely botched both Free Practice and qualifying, he just hasn't found his rhythm at all.

Aside from that DAS system—which they basically only touch during the safety car periods or the installation lap anyway—there isn't any real difference between the Mercedes-Benz and the Williams. Honestly, the steering wheel is what actually feels different, and that’s where the biggest gap lies. That’s really the only part that actually demands an adjustment.

swifttiger75 said:I'd love to see Russell snag pole just to watch the absolute meltdown that would follow. 🎉

At one point, I honestly found myself wondering which group this was even going to turn into.
I have to say, I’m actually pretty happy seeing how Russell is performing lately.
Dust follows a fast horse. Qualifying hasn't even happened yet, and we're already on page nine of this thread.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:I suspect this is all just setting the stage, really. No matter how things actually shake out on the track, I imagine someone will inevitably try to spin the result to support whatever narrative they’ve already decided on.

I suppose if George Russell performs well, everyone will claim it's all thanks to the car. But if he struggles, then it'll be blamed entirely on him. In either scenario, it seems like Lewis Hamilton is just being viewed as a mediocre talent who happened to catch a lucky break with 😁

👍I've already mentioned that earlier in this thread.

bluepuma9 said:Perez definitely deserves to stay in F1.
I wonder if he'd actually take a seat at Alpha Tauri if Kvyat moves on.

Kvyat is out, but we've got Yuki Tsunoda coming in. 😉

Let's goooooo!

ruggedhawk20 said:You already got the list on the last page.

Fine, here it is again

Alain Prost 1986
Senna 1991
Michael Schumacher 1995

Titles won in cars that weren't the absolute best.

Prost in '86—sure. I'd probably toss in 1982 or maybe 2008 too, but I can't get behind '91 or '95.

Regarding 1991—yeah, the Williams was a beast ahead of its time and all that, but the thing just kept breaking down. Between all those retirements, especially early in the season, they dropped so many points that Senna's class eventually allowed him to snatch it. After that, Mansell went on a tear, but the old pro managed to pull it off anyway.

As for 1995, that’s debatable; it feels like a classic 1a/1b scenario.

Bottom line: looking back over the last 60 years—say, since the 1960s—we have maybe two or three seasons where someone took the title without having the absolute best or even an equal car to the runner-up. But sure, go ahead and attack Lewis 🙏🙏, who has that 2008 run where the Ferrari was clearly the class of the field.

People talk, but Lewis had a more dominant car than, say, Senna or Niki Lauda... Fine, great, but whether he was dominant by one point or 100 points doesn't change the number of titles on his resume. If someone starts arguing Lewis is better than driver X just because he won by a larger margin, they're missing the point—he was driving a monster of a car.

Still, at the end of the day, the guy squeezes everything out of a dominant car, and this is the result we see....

Getting back to the race, there's one thing I don't think anyone has mentioned. Look, Russell is incredible, no question, but you could see a distinct difference—which is totally normal given the circumstances—where Russell would build a lead over Bottas and then lose it every few laps due to some tiny error or something similar. Hamilton's whole thing is that relentless lap-after-lap pace while managing tires; that's his superpower. If Lewis had been driving yesterday, I think the gap between the two Mercedes would have been significantly wider, which gives the pit crew much more breathing room for tire changes and almost certainly prevents mistakes. It's not Russell's fault, obviously, but that's the value of building a consistent advantage—you never know when you'll need that cushion for a double pit stop or whatever.

Nicholas Newman2 said:At one point, I honestly found myself wondering which group this was even going to turn into.
I have to say, I’m actually pretty happy seeing how Russell is performing lately.
Dust follows a fast horse. Qualifying hasn't even happened yet, and we're already on page nine of this thread.

👍I've already mentioned that earlier in this thread.

I suppose if Russell manages to get his hands on a truly competitive car and starts racking up those wins, we might just see a scenario that plays out almost exactly like the Lewis Hamilton era. Only, I have this nagging feeling that Russell would probably lean even harder into that quintessential Englishman persona, which, if you ask me, might make him just a little bit more irritating to deal with.😁

darkmarlin16 said:Oh yeah, the way Russell charms Bottas was absolutely legendary 🙏

I mean, seriously, what happened to poor Bottas was an absolute embarrassment of epic proportions. Especially after that SC call. It was painfully obvious that Russell was flying while Bottas was just struggling to keep up, and even though Russell seemed to be holding back a bit—probably because he didn't want to end up in a massive collision—it was still brutal. But honestly, the poor guy was so rattled and terrified that he ended up choking and making his own mistake, and once that happened, Russell just tore through the field while Bottas was stuck in the weeds fighting off Lance Stroll 😂

He was already messing with Bottas before that...
So, at the restart, Mercedes pulled a fast one on him. ☕

Just so you know, Bottas pitted, and those geniuses actually put Russell's tires on him. Then they realized they'd given Russell his own set, leaving Bottas with absolutely nothing left.
His brakes caught fire, and then they had the nerve to put those old, worn-out tires—the ones they just took off—right back on the car while they were still cold. 🤦

Honestly, regarding Bottas, it's a miracle he even finished the race on those tires. I mean, nobody actually expected him to pull off some heroic defense on the restart...

Jason Campbell70 said:I just wish he could keep up that flawless streak during qualifying.

After all, he can always go back to his other specialty: an equally perfect run of races where he finishes without a single point.

^^ That’s exactly what I’d like to see.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:I suppose if Russell manages to get his hands on a truly competitive car and starts racking up those wins, we might just see a scenario that plays out almost exactly like the Lewis Hamilton era. Only, I have this nagging feeling that Russell would probably lean even harder into that quintessential Englishman persona, which, if you ask me, might make him just a little bit more irritating to deal with.😁

When George finally finds a car that actually competes.
Between Max Verstappen's raw speed, the nationality factor with George and Lando Norris, or the legacy aspect with Michael Schumacher... you can bet that once Lewis Hamilton moves over to Ferrari, the door to that Mercedes-Benz cockpit will be wide open for one of them.

darkmarlin16 said:With Esteban Ocon's result, we’ve now got a full split of the top 14 in the overall standings.

Huge congrats to Sergio Perez, he absolutely earned that win. 👍

I mean, look at the run he's had—last weekend he misses out on a guaranteed podium because of a mechanical failure, then goes out and claims a podium doesn't even matter as long as Romain Grosjean is okay, and then at Imola, his podium gets snatched away by some questionable calls from the pit wall. Now, Charles Leclerc blows past him on the opening lap and drops him straight to the back, and he's basically tossing Alexander Albon around like a toddler, but somehow the luck finally swings in Sergio's favor and he pulls off the victory. 🙏

Honestly, I'm shocked he walked away from that without any issues, considering how nasty that hit looked.

He definitely earned it.

darkmarlin16 said:Your precious little pirouette hasn't been seen all season long🤣

As long as Buddy is in the mix, even if he's nowhere near the track.

wiredfalcon2 said:What does Americanization have to do with any of this? You guessed it. Absolutely nothing.

I disagree.
F1 is owned by Americans now, so naturally, they want to give it that Americanization touch—turning it into a massive spectacle.
I see it most clearly in those flashy graphics they love so much. You know the ones—"look, someone is catching up within four laps!" or "wow, he’s got 7.8 overtakes!" It feels a bit much.

bluepuma9 said:What are you even rambling about?
It’s been years since Hulk was even in a Force India seat, and let's be real—this current car has absolutely nothing in common with the one he used to drive back then. On top of that, the guy basically flew straight into someone else's car right before the race started. Between that disaster and the fact that he completely botched both Free Practice and qualifying, he just hasn't found his rhythm at all.

Aside from that DAS system—which they basically only touch during the safety car periods or the installation lap anyway—there isn't any real difference between the Mercedes-Benz and the Williams. Honestly, the steering wheel is what actually feels different, and that’s where the biggest gap lies. That’s really the only part that actually demands an adjustment.

So this guy tells someone else they're just rambling before throwing out some "well deserved" praise. Typical. 🤦
There’s honestly zero difference between Mercedes and Williams. That’s exactly why the championship fight basically boils down to Mercedes vs. Williams until the very last race. 🤣

The RP car is just fundamentally different from the Force India that Hulk was driving. It’s a completely different beast.
There’s no way they changed the procedures. The crew, the guys on the ground, even the steering wheels and everything related to handling—it’s all definitely identical to how it was back in the Force India days.

Carlos Sainz was the only one who actually bothered to test out the hard tires.

shadowmarlin22 said:Prost in '86—sure. I'd probably toss in 1982 or maybe 2008 too, but I can't get behind '91 or '95.

Regarding 1991—yeah, the Williams was a beast ahead of its time and all that, but the thing just kept breaking down. Between all those retirements, especially early in the season, they dropped so many points that Senna's class eventually allowed him to snatch it. After that, Mansell went on a tear, but the old pro managed to pull it off anyway.

As for 1995, that’s debatable; it feels like a classic 1a/1b scenario.

Bottom line: looking back over the last 60 years—say, since the 1960s—we have maybe two or three seasons where someone took the title without having the absolute best or even an equal car to the runner-up. But sure, go ahead and attack Lewis 🙏🙏, who has that 2008 run where the Ferrari was clearly the class of the field.

People talk, but Lewis had a more dominant car than, say, Senna or Niki Lauda... Fine, great, but whether he was dominant by one point or 100 points doesn't change the number of titles on his resume. If someone starts arguing Lewis is better than driver X just because he won by a larger margin, they're missing the point—he was driving a monster of a car.

Still, at the end of the day, the guy squeezes everything out of a dominant car, and this is the result we see....

Getting back to the race, there's one thing I don't think anyone has mentioned. Look, Russell is incredible, no question, but you could see a distinct difference—which is totally normal given the circumstances—where Russell would build a lead over Bottas and then lose it every few laps due to some tiny error or something similar. Hamilton's whole thing is that relentless lap-after-lap pace while managing tires; that's his superpower. If Lewis had been driving yesterday, I think the gap between the two Mercedes would have been significantly wider, which gives the pit crew much more breathing room for tire changes and almost certainly prevents mistakes. It's not Russell's fault, obviously, but that's the value of building a consistent advantage—you never know when you'll need that cushion for a double pit stop or whatever.

If the guy was truly extracting everything from the car, he’d have eight titles by now since he would've snatched the 2016 championship too.☕

Russell clearly had issues with the car or just didn't understand the setup yet—you could hear it on the team radio...
So, whether he was building a lead over Bottas or not, it doesn't matter. Expecting total routine from someone who just jumped into that car for his first race in a Mercedes is honestly asking too much...
Even so, within just a few laps of an undercut, he managed to push a five-second gap over Bottas...

Besides, even Lewis needed, what, a handful of races back in 2007 before he finally caught Alonso on track?
I can't remember the exact number, but he definitely didn't nail it in the very first race—and that's considering they were both rookies in that car, though Alonso actually had more experience than Lewis at the time.
So yeah, why expect Russell to show up with perfect routine against Bottas, who's basically a seasoned veteran by now...

silverviper44 said:What kind of drugs are you on??

Diego wasn't the tiebreaker in a fair fight; he was just dead weight that allowed a mediocre team to skip ahead without breaking a sweat.

Your favorite influencer "proved himself" plenty of times when he actually needed to win and failed; he only took titles when he was handed a convincingly superior car. Even with a machine like that, he still lost the championship to Nico Rosberg, which tells you everything you need to know about his skill level. He's average. He just got incredibly lucky to sit in the best car ever made. It's easy to be a champion when everyone else does 90% of the work for you.

Well, I can assure you I'm certainly not on cocaine like that criminal fraud, Diego Maradona.

Hold up, you actually just tried to compare his battle with Valtteri Bottas to his fight against Fernando Alonso. Look, I’m sorry, but just stop—unplug the router and walk away. 🙏🙏

He gained that advantage on the undercut purely because of the tires, just like everyone else who pitted.

As for 2016, Lewis was basically squeezing every ounce of performance out of that car, which is why he walked away with more points per finished race. Honestly, his engine blew up in Malaysia, while Rosberg didn't have that issue once, and that's how you lose a title. If that hadn't happened, he'd be an 8-time champ by now...

That’s all there is to say about Williams. Without George Russell, there’s no party.

Sure, if he wasn't driving a Mercedes, no influencer would be getting any clicks or headlines, let alone a single win.

Since we're already playing the "what if" game...

Just accept the reality that Rosberg was actually BETTER ON TRACK in 2016, which is why he took the title in that same car, regardless of whatever nonsense reasons you're clinging to.

Seriously, can we please stop the constant fighting over whether some influencer is a saint or a villain?

HE ISN'T.

Holy crap!

shadowmarlin22 said:Hold up, you actually just tried to compare his battle with Valtteri Bottas to his fight against Fernando Alonso. Look, I’m sorry, but just stop—unplug the router and walk away. 🙏🙏

He gained that advantage on the undercut purely because of the tires, just like everyone else who pitted.

As for 2016, Lewis was basically squeezing every ounce of performance out of that car, which is why he walked away with more points per finished race. Honestly, his engine blew up in Malaysia, while Rosberg didn't have that issue once, and that's how you lose a title. If that hadn't happened, he'd be an 8-time champ by now...

Eh, but it's not like Mercedes and Toto were rigging things... only when Lewis wins, right?

shadowmarlin22 said:That’s all there is to say about Williams. Without George Russell, there’s no party.

It looks like the party mode just vanished entirely. It's finally becoming clear—that mode wasn't really about Mercedes-Benz, it was about those British cars. It also explains why we've seen such lackluster results from someone who's been performing more like Bottas lately.☕