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Chlorine in drinking water and its health effects

Started by Dennis White2 · · 👁 8 views · 90 replies

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Participants Dennis White2stormyheron4vividorca45Jerry Morales4Bradley Williams5Michael Campbell55Bradley Bailey10Casey Palmer5Susan Harris4rustygull7dustymarlin10Timothy Vaughn44Keith Thomas21Tyler Morgan3gentlehound9Carol Parkerferalwolf24Scott Allen10Rachel Robinson3Kenneth Ruiz4Jack Smith5Brenda Sanders56Larry Walker24hiddenviper13 …
feralwolf24 feralwolf24 Member
26 messages
joined Aug 2009
#61 ·
It’s not really about that; it's more about a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject. He’s talking about laying pipes and disinfecting the lines themselves, but we’re discussing water disinfection. He doesn't seem to grasp that residual chlorine isn't added in excess because we can't accurately predict its concentration—it's added because maintaining a residual is legally required! A place like Bozeman is a perfect example where they use UV for disinfection, but when they switch it over to the supply system, they dose in chlorine. That residual stays there because none of what's dosed gets used up immediately; it just travels through the pipes.

like this:
The considerations for wastewater treatment are different from those for drinking water treatment. For example, U.S. EPA regulations require drinking water systems (regardless of the primary disinfection method used) to maintain a "residual" level of chlorine in treated water to prevent recontamination in the distribution system. On the other hand, wastewater systems usually need to remove residual chlorine before releasing treated effluent.

or in plain English :-)

Along with the chemical and microbiological indicators mentioned, it’s often a case of
misunderstanding the concept of drinking water disinfection, specifically regarding chlorine as the
most common disinfectant. Its purpose is to prevent potential contamination
during transport and to preserve the water from the moment it's pumped until it's consumed. The allowed
concentration is 0.50 mg/l. It is automatically dosed (with a maximum final
concentration of 0.30 mg/l) and electronically monitored. Since some of it is consumed within the network,
its concentration at the tap will never exceed the initial amount. Two phenomena
related to water disinfection at the consumer level often create the impression of "over-chlorinated water":
1. The human threshold for detecting chlorine by smell is very low, sitting around 0.05 mg/l, which is significantly
below the legal and actual concentration present.
2. "White water," which clears up in a glass as tiny bubbles rise, is actually
dissolved atmospheric air caused by technical work on the lines. When that water "degasses,"
that air carries dissolved chlorine with it, intensifying the "chlorine smell."
______________________________________
Debates about whether disinfection in public water supplies is beneficial or harmful are pointless because
this is a public health measure. Along with vaccinations, it has contributed most to extending
human life expectancy and reducing mortality, especially in young children, while improving
general living conditions. We see evidence of this in less developed parts of the world, where there is still a high prevalence of cholera
outbreaks and diseases linked to unsafe water.

With all due respect to his professor, he’s going to have to spend a lot more time in school before he can complain about something he clearly doesn't understand from this perspective (unless he is strictly talking about disinfecting pipes rather than the water itself, in which case I don't know and I'll back off—but as far as I can tell, we're talking about chlorine in the water).
Susan Harris4 Susan Harris4 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2007
#62 ·
feralwolf24 said:Look, I really don't have the energy to go back and forth with you anymore. You’re talking about laying down pipes based on your field experience, while I’m talking about the treatment plants that process the water before it even enters those pipes—also based on my own field experience. Once you finish installing the line, you're basically done until some emergency requires a replacement. On our end, from the moment a well is drilled, we handle everything: sampling, quality control, monitoring, and developing pilot plant technology. We design systems we can guarantee will work reliably while staying affordable for the average American family. We draft the tech specs, oversee the builds by the construction or mechanical teams once they get their permits, and then we monitor the equipment and jump in whenever an emergency pops up. Just for context, my boss is a professor—the kind of guy who is essentially the gold standard for water authorities across the entire US. He's incredibly respected, though I’m just the one working alongside him. I don't claim to have half his expertise; I don't even have the ambition for it because, honestly, I just want to be home with my family.

Think whatever you want. Your job is disinfecting the lines; mine is managing the water itself. You handle the transport, I handle the substance. And as for "fieldwork"... let's not try to compare how many technical reports are filed at American water utilities under our respective names among all the others. It's just not happening. :-))

Lol, if someone manages all the springs, reservoirs, and conditioning units, why is your understanding so narrow that you think we only install pipelines? 😁 😁 You aren't actually supervising the project because you aren't a state-licensed professional—I'm assuming you're a chemist—a licensed supervisory engineer does that! Your entire scope revolves around water quality and nothing else; you clearly have no clue about the radius of influence for a gallery, or a well, or even the aquifer layers and hydraulic losses. So, really...
Susan Harris4 Susan Harris4 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2007
#63 ·
Tyler Morgan3 said:And which one would you even recommend to me?😉

Also, what are you on about? You honestly think water just sits perfectly still in those pipes without any issues? Or do you really believe chlorine isn't a solid indicator of how much water's being used? (Not that you'd know, since you totally butchered those numbers earlier).🥳

Any utility company at all!
Of course it can; why on earth would you even ask such a ridiculous question?
feralwolf24 feralwolf24 Member
26 messages
joined Aug 2009
#64 ·
Susan Harris4 said:Lol, if someone manages all the springs, reservoirs, and conditioning units, why is your understanding so narrow that you think we only install pipelines? 😁 😁 You aren't actually supervising the project because you aren't a state-licensed professional—I'm assuming you're a chemist—a licensed supervisory engineer does that! Your entire scope revolves around water quality and nothing else; you clearly have no clue about the radius of influence for a gallery, or a well, or even the aquifer layers and hydraulic losses. So, really...

I honestly don't know! I'm not claiming to be an expert on that, nor am I talking about it. I already said I don't oversee the specific part of the project you're referring to. The technology side is my lane; construction and mechanical engineering aren't my field, and frankly, I don't pretend to know what goes into them or care to learn. Unlike you, I don't stick my nose into your business because I have zero clue how it works, and I'll say that proudly. As for the actual water disinfection process or purification technology, you clearly don't have a handle on that either, and since it isn't your area, I don't see any reason for you to butt in.
Susan Harris4 Susan Harris4 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2007
#65 ·
feralwolf24 said:I honestly don't know! I'm not claiming to be an expert on that, nor am I talking about it. I already said I don't oversee the specific part of the project you're referring to. The technology side is my lane; construction and mechanical engineering aren't my field, and frankly, I don't pretend to know what goes into them or care to learn. Unlike you, I don't stick my nose into your business because I have zero clue how it works, and I'll say that proudly. As for the actual water disinfection process or purification technology, you clearly don't have a handle on that either, and since it isn't your area, I don't see any reason for you to butt in.

That’s where you’re mistaken; I actually do need to be involved in that part, if nothing else just to stay informed!
feralwolf24 feralwolf24 Member
26 messages
joined Aug 2009
#66 ·
Well, I’ll just invite you to go do your own research then. :-)) You should definitely head over to the source if you want the real scoop. :-)) Just kidding. But seriously, what I’m trying to say is that you’re the expert in your field, and I can't really compete with that just because I happen to know which pressure levels to use, what kind of rotameter we need, or the specific type of compressor. That's just surface-level info for me. We both have our own lanes—you handle the technical deep dives, while I provide the high-level context that’s useful to you, even if it's outside my actual expertise.
Susan Harris4 Susan Harris4 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2007
#67 ·
feralwolf24 said:Well, I’ll just invite you to go do your own research then. :-)) You should definitely head over to the source if you want the real scoop. :-)) Just kidding. But seriously, what I’m trying to say is that you’re the expert in your field, and I can't really compete with that just because I happen to know which pressure levels to use, what kind of rotameter we need, or the specific type of compressor. That's just surface-level info for me. We both have our own lanes—you handle the technical deep dives, while I provide the high-level context that’s useful to you, even if it's outside my actual expertise.

Well, shouldn't it be your narrow specialty? After all, that's how you make a living!😉
Tyler Morgan3 Tyler Morgan3 Member
22 messages
joined Dec 2008
#68 ·
That last reply was a massive wall of text, but hey, at least now I finally see what kind of mindset we're dealing with here!
Anyway, this whole thing is drifting way off topic, so I'll just say peace out to everyone!
Let’s just all get back to worrying about the water disinfection process together and things will be fine. Honestly, you can learn anything if you just have the guts to admit when you don't know something.
Susan Harris4 Susan Harris4 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2007
#69 ·
Tyler Morgan3 said:That last reply was a massive wall of text, but hey, at least now I finally see what kind of mindset we're dealing with here!
Anyway, this whole thing is drifting way off topic, so I'll just say peace out to everyone!
Let’s just all get back to worrying about the water disinfection process together and things will be fine. Honestly, you can learn anything if you just have the guts to admit when you don't know something.

But isn't what I wrote the truth? If he makes his living from it, he ought to be the expert on water and air conditioning, shouldn't he? 😉
Scott Allen10 Scott Allen10 Regular
315 messages
joined Jun 2005
#70 ·
🙂....

Seriously, you two need to chill out for a second!....Honestly, I don't care who's teaching whom or if they're dating, and frankly, I don't think anyone else here does either.

If we're gonna keep talking about chlorine levels in the water, which is fine, let's just keep the volume down a notch, okay?☕
Timothy Vaughn44 Timothy Vaughn44 Member
27 messages
joined Feb 2009
#71 ·
Is this thread about the water disinfection process or chlorine in the water and health?? 🤔 🙄
Tyler Morgan3 Tyler Morgan3 Member
22 messages
joined Dec 2008
#72 ·
Timothy Vaughn44 said:Is this thread about the water disinfection process or chlorine in the water and health?? 🤔 🙄

Look, we basically settled this back on the second post already—the amount of chlorine left over from the disinfection process doesn't have ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on human health... at least nothing negative, anyway. ☕
feralwolf24 feralwolf24 Member
26 messages
joined Aug 2009
#73 ·
Tyler Morgan3 said:Look, we basically settled this back on the second post already—the amount of chlorine left over from the disinfection process doesn't have ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on human health... at least nothing negative, anyway. ☕

What I'm trying to get at is that if we keep acting the way we do, future levels of chlorine and other purification methods will definitely start affecting our health.

For those wondering what kind of behavior I mean:
It's dumping old scrap metal from useless washing machines, cars, tires, and all sorts of junk in the woods just because paying for proper disposal at a local landfill is too "expensive." Sure, it’s cheaper than doing the right thing, even if it means leaving a mess for our kids to deal with later.

It’s also that mindset where every cigarette butt, scrap of paper, or unwanted stray animal gets tossed into rivers and streams—basically treating them like future corpses—which then becomes the perfect breeding ground for pests that we eventually try to kill off with massive doses of chlorine.

We all have those habits where we tell ourselves, "My little contribution won't make a difference," or "One little wrapper won't ruin the whole town." Then we'll see each other again in a year or five when we reopen this topic, and I might not be able to tell you that the chlorine levels are safe, or worse, that the chemical reactions caused by the dirty water itself are becoming dangerous.
Stay healthy, everyone (my friend from Florida says we shouldn't say "cheers," but rather "stay healthy," because you can technically "cheers" while on life support!)
Tyler Morgan3 Tyler Morgan3 Member
22 messages
joined Dec 2008
#74 ·
feralwolf24 said:What I'm trying to get at is that if we keep acting the way we do, future levels of chlorine and other purification methods will definitely start affecting our health.

For those wondering what kind of behavior I mean:
It's dumping old scrap metal from useless washing machines, cars, tires, and all sorts of junk in the woods just because paying for proper disposal at a local landfill is too "expensive." Sure, it’s cheaper than doing the right thing, even if it means leaving a mess for our kids to deal with later.

It’s also that mindset where every cigarette butt, scrap of paper, or unwanted stray animal gets tossed into rivers and streams—basically treating them like future corpses—which then becomes the perfect breeding ground for pests that we eventually try to kill off with massive doses of chlorine.

We all have those habits where we tell ourselves, "My little contribution won't make a difference," or "One little wrapper won't ruin the whole town." Then we'll see each other again in a year or five when we reopen this topic, and I might not be able to tell you that the chlorine levels are safe, or worse, that the chemical reactions caused by the dirty water itself are becoming dangerous.
Stay healthy, everyone (my friend from Florida says we shouldn't say "cheers," but rather "stay healthy," because you can technically "cheers" while on life support!)

🙂

This one is gold!!!

🙂
Timothy Vaughn44 Timothy Vaughn44 Member
27 messages
joined Feb 2009
#75 ·
Tyler Morgan3 said:Look, we basically settled this back on the second post already—the amount of chlorine left over from the disinfection process doesn't have ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on human health... at least nothing negative, anyway. ☕

I personally feel like the amount of chlorine resulting from the water disinfection process does actually affect human health (negatively) ☕... but hey, if you guys have already made up your minds, then so be it 🙂
Susan Harris4 Susan Harris4 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2007
#76 ·
Timothy Vaughn44 said:I personally feel like the amount of chlorine resulting from the water disinfection process does actually affect human health (negatively) ☕... but hey, if you guys have already made up your minds, then so be it 🙂

Exactly.
Tyler Morgan3 Tyler Morgan3 Member
22 messages
joined Dec 2008
#77 ·
Susan Harris4 said:Exactly.

What exactly are you basing that on? 🍿
Rachel Robinson3 Rachel Robinson3 Newcomer
2 messages
joined May 2008
#78 ·
Timothy Vaughn44 said:There actually is a better—and much healthier—way to go about it, which would be using ozone disinfection, but honestly, for us regular folks, that's just way too expensive to pull off on our own.😁 🙄

"Healthier" 🤷 ...
... ozone treatment, naturally occurring bromide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromide ...
... converts into potentially carcinogenic bromates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromate 😲
Kenneth Ruiz4 Kenneth Ruiz4 Newcomer
1 message
joined Feb 2013
#79 ·
I just finished watching this documentary about the water disinfection process here in the States, and honestly, I’m kind of freaking out a little bit.
Are we all actually 100% certain that chlorine isn't doing us—especially our kids—any harm?
Is it true that some places over in Europe don't even use chlorine for their water?
Does anyone have any actual info on this...
The last post I saw on this thread was way back in 2009, so has anything changed since then??
Jack Smith5 Jack Smith5 Active Member
87 messages
joined Jan 2011
#80 ·
Why is my tap water looking milky white? It stays cloudy even after I let it sit in a glass for a while.
I can't quite pin down the taste—maybe it's slightly sweet, or maybe that's just my imagination playing tricks on me. Since I'm still the "new guy" in town and used to the water back home, everything feels a bit off.

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