Is corruption widespread among doctors in the US?

Noah Vaughn3 said:I don't want to argue... but nobody ever talks about the good things a doctor does (it's the same for any profession), specifically regarding Smith... I mean, honestly, how many lives did that guy actually save?

Of course nobody looks at that, right? It's way easier to just trash someone...

First off, Smith isn't some saint, and we shouldn't look at him that way. He’s a professional who gets paid. And he gets paid a lot. Everything he does comes with a paycheck. If he ever worked for free, feel free to set me straight.
It's a mistake to view doctors as these empathetic saints sacrificing themselves for others. It's a job, just like any other. It requires serious skill and responsibility, which is exactly why it pays way better than most other careers.
The doctors working with Doctors Without Borders—those are the heroes. They work for free, without compensation. Those people act out of pure humanity, not because they're chasing a massive salary.

Second, what "good deeds"? He was hired to do his job well. That isn't a "good deed," it's just doing the job he was hired for.
For all those "good deeds" you're talking about—which are really just successfully completed professional tasks—he gets paid handsomely.

Third, even if we follow your logic and pretend Smith treating people was pure charity rather than performing duties he was paid for by the patients he "saved," the fact that he was extorting bribes tells you everything you need to know about his character. He was bidding on things that should be sacred to a doctor: human lives.

Because it's not about charity anymore, and it's not about being a professional doing their job conscientiously. We're talking about a criminal who abused his power and expertise for illegal, immoral financial gain.
What kind of "saint" extorts people using their own lives against them?!
Money or death!
What are you even talking about?

And fourth, would you say the same thing about Brauer? Should we ignore all the bad stuff and only talk about the good things she did?
I'm pretty sure Hitler was a professional house painter, too. But you don't hear historians mentioning that part, do you? Unfair?

Zachary Thompson9 said:Noah Vaughn3, some people actually finished med school... there's zero point trying to defend Smith. I bet even your mom would agree with me on this one.

It’s pretty wild seeing people swear they’re all about integrity while simultaneously defending criminals and their shady moves.
Makes you wonder about their moral compass, doesn't it? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be the first ones calling foul on that kind of "unfair competition"?
On top of that, they go after the victims of those crimes.
Then, in the same breath, they try to play the victim and grab sympathy from those very same people—both the victims and the perpetrators.
Like, what's even the goal here?
Total nonsense!

res publica said:A close friend of my mom's went through this absolute extortion nightmare when her kid needed tonsil surgery. The doctor straight up told her, "Look, your kid is fourth on my list tomorrow, but after I've done three surgeries, my focus slips and I might slip up with the scalpel—anything could happen." So, she handed him $200 on the spot, and suddenly, her kid was moved to the very top of the list.

😲 😲 MAN, saying that about a kid... that's just sick...

res publica said:To wrap it up, healthcare corruption is definitely a massive issue and needs to be ripped out by the roots. It's everywhere in other industries too, but that's no excuse for what's happening here.

I have to admit, I haven't personally run into a corrupt doctor yet. I’m sure they exist—honestly, more and more of these stories are coming to light lately—but I can say that I (thank God) haven't had to deal with one myself...

Anthony Kim18 said:I mean.......

God, you are just so incredibly basic... and wow, thanks for the groundbreaking insight, Captain Obvious.

Look, I never claimed healthcare was clean, but saying corruption hits 20%... that’s just a massive stretch.

But I can already see where this is going. It'll turn into one of those debates where people cherry-pick a single sentence you said, rip it out of context, and then start throwing stones...

Noah Vaughn didn't go around claiming her mother takes a $167 from every single patient she sees—especially given her profession, where I doubt she even gets a free drink from every fiftieth person.

And besides, if someone hands you a bottle of wine after you've finished treating them, how is that even bribery? You did your job, you were honest, you were professional, and you weren't looking for a handout... they're just showing gratitude. There was this one elderly gentleman who brought me a handmade wall lamp and a candlestick after I helped save his wife... was that a bribe? Was that corruption? Or is it just being human and wanting to say thanks when you feel the need? I've never asked for anything, nor have I ever expected it. But if someone has already invested their time, money, or resources into me, it feels almost wrong not to accept a gesture of thanks...

My mother doesn't take handouts—let’s be clear about that. If she happens to receive a gift here or there, I don't see any harm in it. It’s exactly what 🙂 Benjamin Murphy2 is getting at—someone makes something, someone buys something... for example, a man whose life she actually saved bought her some high-end medical clogs. He just wanted to make sure she could keep doing her job effectively while staying comfortable
And trust me, I am incredibly proud of her. By the way, I wasn't making excuses—you all called her a fool, but honestly, there are plenty of people like you out there, and a very colorful, judgmental crowd awaits you in the future (as I already mentioned)

American business... Is accepting gifts really not considered bribery?! So, some journalist writes a glowing piece about Trump, and then he buys him a new computer, "so he can continue doing that same job well." Honestly, give me a break. More than 50 percent of surgeons take bribes, whether it’s in the form of steak dinners, coffee, whiskey, cigarettes, or cold hard cash. Because, let’s be real, gifts are bribes, even if most people prefer actual currency. I’m not saying every doctor is corrupt, but there are more than not (this applies to residents; those underpaid folks in general practice usually aren't even in a position to take bribes). Even Benjamin Murphy2 admits to taking gifts and acts surprised that we’re shocked?! This country is going to hell...

The whole idea of favoritism is built on protectionism. But look, I don’t play those games. Every single one of my patients gets treated exactly the same—doesn't matter if they're old, young, polite, rude, wealthy, or broke. I've never asked anyone for a damn thing, and I'm not starting now. If someone happens to be so happy with my work that they leave a little something behind... well, I'm not going to turn my back on them. If that's considered a crime, then let them come arrest me. If it's a sin, then I guess I'll just burn in hell... so you can stop breathing down my neck.

Over and out.

I sincerely hope I never have to see you in my clinic...

Me too.

/ignore

I provoked you on purpose just to see how you would react... It seems the Hippocratic Oath means nothing to you. You wouldn't even treat me... You weren't even advocating for doctors in the first place.

🙄 there’s always one of those types

I just love people who get this huge rush of joy from baiting someone, only to take a single forum post and act like they’ve suddenly diagnosed a stranger’s entire personality or professional credentials. It's exhausting...

So you're basically admitting you were just trying to push my buttons on purpose.

Honestly, you aren't even worth the breath it takes to reply.

And like I said before, everyone who walks through the doors of my clinic gets the same treatment from me... whether they're total idiots or not.

Anyway, that's basically why I quit posting on this forum and stopped trying to give useful advice wherever else I could... If people care more about how I handle their little provocations than whether I actually know what I'm talking about, then they can just go to hell.

Of course, it’s all just a myth—and frankly, for those of you intentionally spreading these tall tales just to corner some doctor, everything should be shut down. Every last bit of it. :P We really are a hopeless bunch... we aren't going anywhere, let alone joining the EU. It's all cursed!

p.s.—nice one, Benjamin Murphy2

...I’ll just say this country is truly going to hell if this kind of nonsense can be posted without any consequences. It implies Smith was "well-compensated" for his role—basically getting a massive bonus at the end of the month. I mean, how can you claim anything about his regular salary when you haven't seen his pay stub? How can you just guess at corruption percentages? On a forum, I guess that's expected, but unfortunately, even professional journalists write like this. Even that idiot Secretary of Health is just talking out of his ass without actually looking into the specifics of the case. (The comment above was directed at everyone, I'm not even sure who said what)
But honestly, the best part is that now people are coming forward to report Smith over incidents from 1998. You paid the money, someone got surgery ahead of schedule, someone else lost out because of it, and then—eight years later—you suddenly remember to file a report. And the government protects you? They won't even prosecute you for giving the bribe. Great.
Regards.

Anthony Kelly3 said:....I’d just say this whole country is straight up going down the drain when this kind of nonsense can be posted without anyone giving a damn. It basically means Smith was getting paid handsomely for his little gig—getting a nice bonus at the end of the month, I guess. How can you even claim anything about his salary when you haven't seen his pay stub? Or talk about corruption percentages based on pure guesswork? On a forum, fine, whatever, but unfortunately, this is how actual professional journalists write. Even that idiot Secretary of Health is just talking out of his ass without actually looking into the specifics of the case. (The stuff above was meant for everyone, I don't even remember who wrote what anymore)
But honestly, the best part is seeing people suddenly coming forward now to report Smith for stuff dating back to 1998. You handed over the cash, someone got surgery ahead of schedule, someone else lost out because of it, and then eight years later you suddenly decide to file a report? And the government protects you? No criminal charges for bribing? Fantastic.
Cheers.

I agree with most of what was said here... (And that primitive little outburst from the person who started this thread thinking they "discovered" something brand new can go back to crawling in their own tiny, ignorant corner...)... rest my case.

Anthony Kim18 said:I mean, let's just skip all those heavy spirits, since I guess the average price tag on them isn't exactly cheap either, maybe around... $50So, I guess if you multiply that by 50, you end up with 7... maybe? $167.

So, here we go... just one of those folks who thinks they can enlighten us all by using basic math to supposedly expose corruption, though I guess they’re basically just trying to lecture anyone with a "lower education" level, if you catch my drift.
I guess the most common gift is just some of that "famous" Jack Daniel's, though if you're considered a "better" doctor, maybe you'll get a couple of glasses to go along with it... aside from the cigarettes, I suppose. $17....
Look, just so we’re all on the same page here, I’m not out here looking for bribes or anything like that, and honestly, I’m not even hunting for much gratitude, though I guess a simple "thanks" for doing a solid job wouldn't hurt... but even that’s pretty rare since most people just head out of the department without even giving you a nod, but whatever. I suppose some folks, for reasons they probably shouldn't have to explain themselves for, feel this sudden urge to show their appreciation, so they end up doing it this way instead. It’s funny because it's usually the exact same people who were making the most noise when we were talking about... $10 I mean, they're shelling out like 50 bucks a month just on administrative fees... it's kind of wild how much they end up blowing on stuff like that, I guess.$33 I mean, strictly speaking, if we’re talking about some kind of "token of gratitude," I guess I'd much rather have the government just pay me that amount per patient directly instead of having to spend my time bagging up supplies, even though I really do value my job and the pay is alright as it is.

Anthony Kim18 said:I guess it depends on how many doctors you're actually looking to see, maybe?
I guess there were maybe like ten of them out today, if that's even right. $250 I guess it’s just a matter of how you look at things, personally.
I mean, if you ask me, that's just a massive stain, I guess.
I mean, if they weren't pulling in salaries or taking bribes, they could probably live pretty comfortably just off their side hustles, I guess... which is wild when you think about how much more most regular people actually put in, even those with way higher degrees and way more responsibility than them.

I guess those big bucks floating around the healthcare system like that mostly just end up in the pockets of liquor distributors or maybe some doctors who happen to be heavy drinkers, though I suppose it also goes toward the bottles I bring along whenever I head over to a friend's place for a visit.
Since I don't actually drink the stuff myself, and I definitely don't have some fancy liquor store stand where I could flip it for a quick buck to live like a king without ever worrying about a paycheck again, I guess I'm just left hoping that someone finally invents those alcohol-powered cars soon, so I can at least find some way to make use of it...

Mark Barrett2 said:God, you're being so blunt... and wow, thanks for stating the obvious.

Thanks for the kind words.
Got anything else?

Benjamin Murphy2 said:I never claimed there wasn't corruption in healthcare, but saying it's 20% is just insulting.

But I can already see this turning into one of those debates where people grab one sentence out of context just to tear you down.

Noah Vaughn3 didn't say her mom takes $167 from every single patient—given her profession, I doubt she even gets a free Jack Daniel's from every fiftieth person.

Besides, if someone gives you a bottle of booze after you've finished treating them, how is that a bribe? You did your job, honestly and professionally, without expecting a thing, and then the person simply shows their gratitude. It actually touched me once when an old gentleman brought me a handmade wall lamp and a candle holder after I helped save his wife. Is that a bribe? Is that corruption? Or is it just being human and wanting to thank someone when you feel the need? I’ve never asked for anything or expected anything. But if someone has already spent their time, money, or resources on me, it feels even worse to turn it away.

Look, I get it. I kind of understand why gifts are seen as a traditional way of doing things. Like, back in the day, farmers would bring ham to the judge just to make sure he was fair. They'd bring ham to the doctor to ensure they got treated right. They'd bring stuff to school on the first day so the teacher would actually teach the kid.
Just like back then, you have to realize that the core motive behind people giving gifts isn't really about rewarding someone—it's about fear. It's the anxiety over whether that official is going to actually do the job they're paid to do. That fear of "shaky hands"—the fear that things might go wrong—is the fundamental driver behind any kind of "gift." That’s why people give, even when a doctor doesn't ask. You can tell because the frequency and value of these gifts go up as the person's power increases. Doctors hold life and death in their hands quite often, and a shaky hand, whether intentional or not, can be a final verdict.
And I get why (since you grew up in that environment) you view receiving gifts as something totally normal. You see it as coming from the heart, not from fear.
But every employee needs to have their salary—regardless of what it is, and regardless of whether they're happy with it (and let's face it, nobody is ever truly satisfied with their paycheck, right?)—as their only compensation. Maybe with small exceptions like handmade items or tiny gestures, like a cup of coffee.
Why? Because otherwise, you start questioning if you'll work harder if you see a bigger gesture of gratitude. And if that's the case, it means you aren't treating every patient equally, even though they are all equal—they're all Social Security Administration beneficiaries.
Even if that's not the case, you're still inviting the suspicion.
And it’s fine if someone later says, "Hey, those are great clogs, keep up the good work," but that's no different than Walton buying a computer for a journalist who, in Walton's opinion, is doing a great job.
Great clogs don't make a doctor a good doctor, and great clogs don't make a journalist a good journalist.
If someone really wants to improve medical work and patient care, there are plenty of ways to donate medical equipment that your doctor doesn't even need to know about.
Of course, we're only talking about the extreme examples of "small" gifts here.
When it comes to actual cash, especially if a doctor asks for it, that's a clear-cut issue.

Those percentages aren't my claim; they're just an assumption, which is basically just guesswork, much like your denial of them is also just guesswork.
Ljubičić said (and just to be clear, I'm not a fan) that there isn't more or less corruption among doctors than in any other sector of public service.

Noah Vaughn3 Benjamin Murphy2 said:Of course it’s all just a setup. You people who go out of your way to plant fake evidence just to trap doctors... honestly, they should just shut the whole thing down! Every last bit of it! :P We really are a hopeless bunch, aren't we? Forget joining the global stage, we're stuck right here. It's all cursed!

P.S.—way to go, Benjamin Murphy2!

Oh my God! Talk about pure stupidity and malice all in one place!
So you wouldn't lock up some guy shaking people down for bribes, right? But what about those folks who only pay—or don't—because their own lives, or the lives of their families, are on the line? Isn't that a different story? 😢
Why just lock up the racketeers when you could go after the ones footing their bills? You know, the ones paying them off just to save their own skin and assets? Wouldn't that be more effective?

What's up? 😢

What happened to Smith was just a classic police sting. It’s totally legal, right? Honestly, it's the only way you can actually catch someone for corruption.
If he hadn't taken that bribe, there wouldn't even be an indictment or a conviction to worry about. Wouldn't he just be innocent then?
Wait, so he didn't just take a bribe? He was actually shaking people down for stuff he’d already been busted for?

Shouldn't they just shut down that doctor too? You know, the one who told her to report Smith?