How should we treat suicide attempts?

Shtefitza said:The best way to deal with frustration is through humor—even if it’s dark. But you shouldn't take it out on people in the exam room. Why shock the audience on a forum? Why go looking for negative attention? And why give someone who's feeling suicidal any reason to try an "effective" method next time just to get validation from some guy on a message board?

Spot on. 🙏

There’s one harsh reality we have to face: unfortunately, many people who attempt suicide once will try again, and for a huge number of them, they eventually succeed.
You never truly know when you might hit a breaking point where everything feels hopeless. Personally, I’m not the suicidal type at all—not even close. But if something catastrophic happened to me, like losing my loved ones or having my entire world crumble around me, who’s to say I wouldn't feel like there was nothing left to live for? (And no, Arslan, your insults don't even come close to that kind of thing 😈).
Every single suicide attempt needs psychiatric intervention. The worst-case scenario is when someone who has attempted to take their own life convinces themselves—and everyone around them—that they’re perfectly fine now and don't need any more help. So many people are too ashamed to see a psychiatrist; even here in the States, seeking mental health treatment can still carry a heavy stigma in certain communities, especially in smaller towns.
A few years back, there was this well-known anesthesiologist from a city in California who took her own life. This was her third or fourth attempt, and she had never actually been in formal psychiatric treatment (just talking things out occasionally with a friend who happened to be a psychiatrist doesn't count). During her last failed attempt, her boss threatened to suspend her if she didn't seek professional help. Instead of being supported, everyone turned on him, accusing him of being heartless or making things worse... he was under so much pressure that he ended up rescinding the suspension. He told them all that they would eventually regret that decision.
Two months later, she succeeded. She used a combination of morphine and potassium chloride, just like in her previous attempts, but this time, no one in her family was able to get to her in time....

Arslan said:Scott Allen10, if you don't have any empathy for those poor souls caught in a terrifying psychological crisis trying to take their own lives, it doesn't mean you aren't being incredibly cold when you talk like "I'm the hero saving everyone, while they're just losers."

We're talking about people who need mental health treatment just as much as someone else needs surgery; both are sick or injured and deserve help equally.

Arslan, please stop twisting my words or implying things I didn't say. For these folks to actually get the psychiatric care—which I've already mentioned multiple times is absolutely essential—they have to stay alive first. And in that specific part of the process, I give them everything they're entitled to. So what now? Why all the finger-pointing? Just because these patients aren't my favorites or I don't sit here weeping over them? Hmm... Take a second and think about where the actual issue lies here. Is it me, or is it your perception that I should automatically be mourning every single tragedy, even if it's a kid having a total mental breakdown? You've gotta have empathy, sure, but don't do it at the expense of yourself—I've done everything I'm supposed to do. So let me process these situations in whatever way works best for me, rather than how they play it out on some dramatic TV show like ER. Does that make me heartless? Not even close. I'm just protecting my own mental health, and once a suicidal patient survives, they can go find a psychiatrist, which is exactly where they need to be anyway.
Recent examples (and honestly, they happen more often than you'd think)...
Say you've got an ileus or a ruptured aneurysm and surgery is the only way. You won't do it? Look, this is life-threatening, if we wait it'll be too late, you'll end up with intestinal gangrene and all that... even the family agrees after a few minutes of talking... Still won't do it? Fine. Just sign this refusal form right here. Here's your IV, here's your pain meds, here's your antibiotics... See ya, I'm gonna go finish watching the game.
I'd love to hear your thoughts: is a medical professional being heartless here, or just being professional?

Casey Palmer5 said:We’re all footing the bill for this. And when someone young and actually productive—someone who contributes to the tax pool—suddenly needs an urgent MRI or their kids need help... suddenly there’s nothing left. You're expected to just cough up the cash or find a private clinic. Meanwhile, our taxes are being drained steadily.

Look, I won't apologize; the healthcare system here has made me a little cynical. I've grown a bit numb to it all, honestly.

The truth is, the American healthcare system is just fundamentally unfair. If someone decides to take their own life, maybe they should be the ones paying for it. Or at least stay productive enough so they aren't leaving a massive financial mess for their families and society to clean up.

Hmm... you can't just ignore the economic side of this, no matter how cold that sounds to people. I mean, would anyone else out there—even someone in that situation—actually go through with major procedures if they didn't have insurance coverage?
A few years back, I saw a medical bill for what looked like a "suicide attempt" that totaled about $35,000 $0.00 —we're talking multiple surgeries, some intravascular stents, a couple of months in the ICU, dealing with infections, endless diagnostic tests, high-end meds, and supplies... and that's not even touching on the psychiatric follow-ups and rehab later on.

When it comes to the money side of healthcare, we’re actually way beyond being just a welfare state. When I posted something along those lines on my blog once, people absolutely lost it—everyone was acting like I was some heartless monster for lacking empathy. But honestly, I have a mountain of examples where, for the amount we pay monthly, people get way more coverage here than almost anywhere else in the world.
Okay, you’ll probably tell me, "That's just the principle of collective solidarity: everyone chips in, and whoever needs it uses it."
And look, that sounds all lovely and wonderful on paper, if we didn't have these totally unrealistic scenarios:

Example 1—there was this patient, somewhere out in California, maybe around 70 years old (oops, typo there), who had surgery for GIST and needed Glivec. A single monthly dose costs about $12. But because she had to pick up the medication at the hospital pharmacy in San Francisco, and she wasn't living within 62 miles (based on the old Regulation that was in effect back then), Medicare wouldn't cover her travel expenses.
My Grandmother and her whole family were absolutely livid with the government and how the system was run.
In the "real" world out there, in that beautiful white-picket-fence society, she might not even get this medication at all. Since she's in that age bracket (>65), they don't typically prescribe Glivec post-op for GIST; instead, they use a combination of cheaper (and yeah, less effective) chemo drugs "on the taxpayer's dime." And in those places, if you don't have the cash and haven't paid into premium health insurance—you basically die, and nobody treats you.

Example 2—this was also from my blog—a woman working as a retail clerk making minimum wage, paying $67 a month into health insurance (it's not her fault, I'm just using her to show the ratio of cost to income). She had surgery on her wrist. While she was in the hospital, she took photos of peeling walls, falling ceiling tiles, windows that didn't even seal properly, and even a 96-year-old lady who, after hip surgery, was causing a total ruckus in the ward, pathetically wondering aloud: "Where is all the healthcare money going???" When I told her that a single box of sutures containing 12 packs for 12 or fewer patients costs $917, she called me an inhuman doctor. She insisted she'd heard that 75% of healthcare funding goes straight to doctors' salaries.

"Over there," insurance doesn't pay for the exact same treatment for the same injury if it happened, say, because of a car crash versus jumping from a 5th-story window for a suicide attempt. That's always been the deal; it's just tucked away in that tiny fine print in insurance contracts that nobody ever bothers to read.

Forget what people say about the US being expensive; we’re still basically El Dorado. Politicians tell patients they have a right to everything, while telling us we aren't allowed to give them this or that based on their referral...😈

So, Ms. Efa is a doctor. I’m glad she’s here, mostly because I still haven't quite recovered from your previous display of sheer rudeness and lack of class.

Might as well just call it quits, you old hypochondriac. Honestly, that bus was probably the quickest way for him to get rid of all those ailments.
And by the way, I don't recall ever getting involved with you. If anything, I go out of my way to give you a wide berth because you're about as pleasant as a stomach flu. Between your complicated personality issues and the fact that you seem to be losing your mind, you might want to start taking some Aricept.

Check the link for the full details!
I think we should be careful about jumping to conclusions here. It’s easy to get swept up in the emotion of it all, but let's try to look at the facts objectively. I'm probably overthinking things—I tend to do that—but I still believe there's more to the story than what's being presented right now.

INTRODUCTION
I posted this a few days ago in the health section, but I pulled it down about thirty minutes later. Honestly, it felt a little too personal, and I was worried about what people might say.

It feels a bit too private, and honestly, there are probably a lot of people who need to hear this... because if I were the next one to take my own life, what would everyone think? For me, it’s just about euthanasia. Chronic patients endure such intense physical pain and psychological struggles that someone who hasn't lived through it simply can't understand.

If my Asbestos reaches a point where I can't breathe or move, that’ll be my exit. Honestly, with thoughts like those, what am I even doing "living since 1997"? Still, I’m hoping I just deal with the calcified pleural plaques I have now—the ones that make breathing feel heavy when I push myself. I'm praying the onset of Asbestos stays slow. My specialist told me that even though I was a heavy smoker, since I quit 19 years ago, my tests show I've fully recovered from the smoking side of things. As far as the Asbestos goes, my lung capacity actually looks pretty good compared to others dealing with this.

Just to note, back on Monday, June 16th, I had a cystoscopy. I’ve also had several days where they did an endoscopy and colonoscopy at the same time... all without any injections. During one of those colonoscopies, they actually removed one polyp and took a sample of another. They also performed a digital prostate exam. Honestly, it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected.
While I was waiting my turn, they were busy digging through my medical records. I’m seeing six different specialists at this same hospital, so there's plenty of paperwork to go around. I was sitting right outside the operating room when things got weird. First, an older gentleman my age went in. You could hear him sobbing and wailing from down the hall. Then, this young guy—a total gym rat who wouldn't stop bragging about how much he lifts and how he was already hitting up another clinic earlier that day—walked in. Barely had he stepped through the door before the screaming started. It sounded like he was being butchered. Honestly, it started to get a little unsettling.

I walked in and told the doctor that I’m currently dealing with about 80% sciatica pain and a pinched nerve in my right arm. He took one look at my medical history and joked, "Well, looks like you're next in line." I tried to lighten the mood with a few jokes about my anatomy, but honestly, his nurses have seen it all—they aren't easily rattled. He went in with the flexible scope. It got a little tight for a second as he moved deeper, but we just chatted while he showed me the whole process on the monitor, explaining exactly what he was seeing. At one point, I asked why the older guy had been crying during his exam. They told me he just had some inflammation. Then they pointed to a younger guy and remarked how most young men talk a big game, but when it’s actually time for the procedure, they struggle—they practically had to have three nurses hold him still. It just goes to show how much everyone is different. I think I realized that a long time ago.

If you check the link, you’ll see most of my medical history listed there. So far, nothing has been terminal—it's not like I'm facing a "cancer" death sentence right now. But when I talk to friends about my experience with Asbestos-related mesothelioma, it gives me a very realistic perspective on life. I've seen people pass away who were much younger than I am. During my time in the support group, I heard just about everything. It’s a heavy thing to weigh: is it worse to die quickly, or to deal with a lingering illness where you endure constant pain with no hope of improvement? Sometimes, things just get progressively worse. Most people won't agree with me, but then again, they haven't lived through what I have—nor have many others.

After over 30 years of battling chronic pain—including two decades spent working through the fog of narcotics—I’ve ended up psychologically exhausted and navigating life on disability. I've certainly picked up some experience along the way, having dealt with just about every type of doctor imaginable, from local GPs to various specialists.

I have to say, I’m pretty disappointed with the public healthcare system right now. On the other hand, I can’t really complain about private doctors either. But when you don't have the means for a private hospital, you're stuck navigating the bureaucracy, and the wait times are brutal. I’ve been waiting 18 months just to see an orthopedic specialist for my shoulder—even though I was marked as an urgent case.

I’ve mentioned this plenty of times before, but I’m stuck in a cycle of constant pain that no clinic seems able to manage. Over the last few years, I've had to deal with a heavy rotation of medications just to get by—everything from Methadone and morphine, in both pill and capsule form, to those 250ml oral solutions. It's been quite a lot to carry.
The doctors are handing out CSN tablets and Gabapentin three months' worth at once just for the trial period.
It’s standard procedure for me to have prescriptions for about 120 tablets of Panadeine Forte—that's the 500mg paracetamol and 30mg codeine blend—not to mention my Rivotron/clonazepam.

My doctors know exactly why I skip doses. I don't just take them on a schedule; I only reach for the pills when things get unbearable. Then, a couple of doses later, I stop again because my stomach starts acting up, my head hurts, or I deal with those itchy skin issues—all that stuff I just can't stand. It makes it look like I’m not following my treatment plan. They've already told me that's the reason they won't trust me, and frankly, I can't stand the idea of being dependent on narcotics either.

This was just an introduction to help explain why someone might occasionally be accused of "being on drugs."
Do you have any idea how many times I’ve laid down, gotten back up, paced through the apartment, and stepped outside in the dead of night while everyone else was sleeping? I’ve spent nights banging my head against the wall or hitting my hand with a hammer—just trying to find a different kind of pain to distract me from the agony I couldn't bear anymore.

I can't even count how many times I thought about suicide when I was only 14. God knows, I’ve kept enough "poison lists" featuring 30 to 50 different ways to go that I've lost track.

My computer has been a lifesaver more times than I can count... especially when I'm reading posts from people describing how they...
My knee has been killing me for two days now, and honestly, I’m at my wit's end. I really want to see if that suggestion works for me, because I always look back at these threads a few days later to see how others fared. If I weren't around to read those updates, what would be the point?😂

It sounds silly, I know... but there’s nothing quite like the relief of posting when I'm in the middle of a massive pain flare-up. Sometimes I lose my drafts, or the forum crashes like it did recently... or maybe I just mess up. My thoughts tend to wander whenever the pain gets this bad.

So, am I a coward? I’m just living life one day at a time. As long as I can still get dressed and do my own laundry without help, I haven't lost hope. Even if my mobility isn't what it used to be, I'm still walking.
I can’t imagine my wife navigating life at 68 if she weren't healthy herself. What would she even do without me? Who would be there to look after her, or even just to drive her a little crazy sometimes? I take care of the little things—nothing too physically demanding—but I try to ease those anxieties she has about what might happen to me, just in case her worst fears come true.

Five weeks ago, everything went south. My right arm just gave out on me because my C8 and T1 neck nerves are being compressed. To make matters worse, the pain is escalating, and I’m feeling pretty helpless. Currently, I'm on a Patch/NorSpan 5mg—Buprenorphine—but it tapers off so slowly over seven days, and I am dealing with acute pain right now. This delay is causing more complications. Does anyone have advice on managing ACUTE pain?

I've come close to hitting rock bottom a few times now. One night, I ended up in the ER only to be told everything was fine at home. The problem is, even in a massive hospital like that with 6,000 employees, they don't have a single Neurologist on staff. They won't even administer a spinal injection because only a specialist can order it. To see one, you have to go to a different facility and wait 9 to 12 months. I already have a lumbar follow-up scheduled for this April anyway, so I guess I'll just have to wait.Just got word that my visit is being pushed back to August...
I walked through my front door, looked around, and thought to myself, "This is it." I turned on my computer just to send one last message to my kids, my grandkids, and my wife... I wanted to get it all printed out.

I headed into the living room to clear out all the meds... I was sorting through what I actually needed and flushing everything else down the toilet just to avoid any questions about why I had such a massive stash. While I was getting ready to toss the empty boxes into the bathroom trash—so there wouldn't be any trace left at the house—I stepped back out. My wife walked in right then and asked me, "Were you at the hospital?"
I even taped a note to my bedroom door: "Do not wake me until 4:00 PM—I haven't slept all night!"
You aren't actually taking enough oxycodone or morphine, are you? You know you won't be able to sleep, and you shouldn't take any more right now... forty-four years just flashed before my eyes.

No, Vera, I'm just cleaning out my closet, getting rid of old pills and anything else I don't need anymore...COWARDICE? Fate, the will to live... it feels shameful to write this, but I'm not going to hide.

I always have some Tylenol at home, maybe 800-1,000mg, but I don't consider that a safe bet.

I apologize for writing so long and so extensively... but do you ever wonder how much a person who is "poisoning themselves to commit suicide" is thinking, or what they are going through?

Maybe someone who takes their own life isn't always a COWARD?

I am grateful to my psychiatrist, and especially to my wife for supporting me, because I know there are days when I'm impossible to deal with... and to this FORUM, which feels "real, even if I read all sorts of things"... it has helped me many times during my darkest hours... I'm just writing it down.
ashamed
Jamie Clark74

Casey Palmer5 said:We all foot the bill. And when someone young and productive—someone actually contributing to the system—needs an urgent MRI, or their kids need help... suddenly there’s nothing left. You're expected to cough up cash or go private. But the money is already gone, sucked straight out of our paychecks.

Forgive me, I think the healthcare system has made me a bit cynical. I've grown a little numb, I guess.

Look, let's be real: the healthcare system is unfair. If someone chooses to end their life, maybe they should bear that cost themselves. Or perhaps they should stay productive so they aren't an added burden to their families and society.

That's a very pointed comment. You're implying that since only the young are working, the older generation didn't work for their retirement? Based on your logic, if you read between the lines, they shouldn't even have a right to medical care. Or am I just missing something?
When a young, productive person needs an emergency MRI... or their children do... suddenly the resources just vanish.

You seem pretty fed up. How many years have you actually been in the workforce? I barely know you, and you're already acting like you're ready for retirement.

I've already paid for my own funeral and organized everything so I won't be a burden to my kids—or the community—regardless of how I go.

And if I were to choose euthanasia, I'd make sure it happened only once. I'd be too terrified of ending up in the hands of FFE or similar organizations.

I love life, truly. But there's always the question of quality of life. Once you become a burden to your community—not to mention your spouse—it isn't really living anymore. Nobody wants palliative care. All my neighbors want to die at home, but most of them are in that 85-95 age range, and they usually spend those final weeks in palliative care anyway.

I can deeply empathaged with the depression doctors face, especially those working in 911 or ER settings. It's devastating. Like Scott Allen10 said, while one person is fighting for every breath, another has already poisoned themselves or taken their own life. It's grim.

But the "why" always lingers. Is it stupidity, courage, or cowardice? I wonder about that often. I don't think it's an easy decision from where I'm standing.

The focus really needs to be on suicide prevention. It's possible to stop these things. Where was all that family support—the people who end up paying the price when a suicide occurs—when they could have actually stepped in to help?
Maybe the person was sending out signals that they needed help, and nobody was listening.
There's a lot more to say about that.

Bibliographic record number: 34847

Journal

Authors: Jušić, Anica
Title: Hospice Movement or Euthanasia?
( Hospice movement or euthanasia! )
Source: American Medical Weekly (0024-3477) 119 (1997), 7; 214-215
Keywords: medical ethics, euthanasia, palliative care, hospice,
( Medical ethics, euthanasia, palliative care, hospice )
Abstract: This paper examines the ethical dimensions of caring for terminally ill patients, focusing specifically on the debate surrounding euthanasia versus the benefits of palliative care within a hospice setting.
Project / topic: 101101
Original language: English
Current Contents: NO
Citation index: NO
Other indexed publications: MEDLINE / Index Medicus/, EMBASE / Excerpta Medica/, Journal of the History of Medicine
The journal is listed in
Regulation: YES
Category: Professional
Print media: yes

Jamie Clark74 said:Geez, you seem pretty fed up. How many years have you even been working? From what I can tell, you’re basically a rookie... and you're already looking toward retirement?

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It's enough for me to realize I won't be getting a pension from this government because the whole system is headed for a total collapse. At best, I might get enough for a loaf of bread and some milk. Honestly, it hurts to keep paying into it; God knows we don't have money to spare, so why sink it into Social Security and Medicare? I'd much rather save privately than pour my money into such an inefficient state system.

Besides, my generation is probably going straight from the office to the cemetery, unlike yours. Women will likely be working until they're 68...

Sophia Martinez65 said:Here is the text of the Hippocratic Oath:

"At the moment I enter the medical profession, I solemnly pledge that I will devote my life

To me, this is sacred. But clearly, it means nothing to Scott Allen10 and FFE. Suicide is actually a cry for help—that’s literally what psychiatry textbooks say. Scott Allen10, who are you to judge whether someone is a coward or not!

That isn't the Hippocratic Oath; that's the Geneva Declaration.

Scott Allen10 shouldn't be judging anyone, but Sophia Martinez65, notice that he's saying he provides all necessary care to his patients. That's the only thing that matters—what Scott Allen10 actually does, not what he thinks or feels.

Casey Palmer5 said:We all foot the bill. And when someone young and productive—someone who actually contributes to paying for these suicides—suddenly needs an urgent MRI, or their kids need help... then suddenly there’s nothing left. Then you have to cough up the cash or pay a private clinic out of pocket. But the money is already being steadily deducted from our paychecks...

Forgive me, but this healthcare system has jaded me too. I've grown a bit numb, damn it.

Dammit, the healthcare system is inherently unfair. If someone wants to commit suicide, they should pay for it themselves. Or they should be efficient so they don't impose extra costs on their relatives and society.

First off—hi, Casey Palmer5. 👋

Secondly... I find your line of reasoning really baffling. Even though at first glance it might seem logical ("who cares if they wanted to end it"), it is fundamentally flawed. It's about boundaries—once you start moving them, you have to move them all the way.

For instance, under the insurance system we have here in the US, everyone pays in. So why should I, as long as I don't have children, pay for neonatal incubators for premature babies? Who cares, let the parents handle it. Why should I pay for a mobile mammography unit? I don't have a family history of breast cancer, which is rare in men anyway. Why should I pay to manage diabetes complications for someone who clearly didn't bother with a diet or exercise? Who cares—maybe it was too hard for them to go for a run, or they couldn't resist the sweets—damn it...

Do you see? You either have to help everyone equally, or you shouldn't be helping anyone at all.

Casey Palmer5 said:It’s enough to make me realize I won't be getting a pension from this government because the whole system is going to collapse. Maybe I'll get enough for bread and milk. Honestly, I hate paying into it; money is tight as it is, and whether it's for social security or Medicare, it feels like a waste. Better to save privately than pour money into such an inefficient state system.

Besides, my generation will basically go straight from the office to the cemetery, unlike yours. Women will be working until they're 68.

In Australia, women also work until 65... depending on your birth year, anyway. The government is already encouraging people to voluntarily work until 70, and some stay even longer.

Back during the America days, everyone complained about not getting their social security and pension cash upfront, but they had no idea how good they actually had it. Farmers used to take two months of sick leave just for the harvest... you can't sustain a system like that forever.

I remember back in Australia, I couldn't even get surgery because we simply didn't have the means to live. I worked for 15 months with sciatica—I had a fractured L5 vertebra and an L5/S1 disc issue. That was in the 1970s. I actually had to borrow money just to survive for six weeks, then I went back to work without any rehab after a failed surgery... the rest is history.

It wasn't a welfare state; if you weren't working, you weren't getting paid.
It wasn't until 1974 that we got social security, and even then, it was just like today—25% of the average wage. Things aren't quite as bad where you are yet... especially if you consider that under Capitalism, being sick is often harder than it was under Communism. People seem happy, though many won't tell you the truth.

Read my last post—I waited 18 months just to see an orthopedic specialist despite being sent as an urgent case. Now I need to see a neurosurgeon urgently, so we'll see how long the wait is this time.

And as for pensions, no matter how small they get, they'll always be poverty wages somewhere in the world, even if it's just enough for milk and bread.

I didn't mean to upset you or add to your worries.😘

HIPPOCRATIC OATH: THE FATHER OF MEDICINE

Casey Palmer5: When someone is contemplating suicide, that individual is just as ill as someone requiring an MRI or similar diagnostic imaging. You can't claim people whose conditions aren't reducible to a simple "this or that" medical finding—those dealing with psychosomatic issues and the like—are somehow less sick.
I’m no doctor, but I do know this from a more human perspective, just navigating life as we all have to: some people simply cannot bear the weight of existence and collapse under the pressure. It isn't our job to pile more onto them; it's to help them break out of that vicious cycle. By "us," I mean society as a whole, because I don't believe suicide is just a clinical issue. It's a failure of the environment we all inhabit.
Scott Allen10 isn't a physician, even though I've noticed some people seem to think he is, given how he phrased things in the text about helping "these" people rather than "those"... In our society, nobody appreciates anyone's work, including university professors and medical specialists, but that is no excuse to devalue life or fail to help others. And as for those of you who think money is everything, I can only say I'm sorry for what we've become. Go ahead and beat me up if you need to.

The Hippocratic Oath

Honestly, I think you’d be better off reading this instead of relying on the old Hippocratic Oath:

shadowfalcon33 said:This isn't the Hippocratic Oath—it's the Geneva Declaration.

Scott Allen10 shouldn't be judging anyone, but look, Sophia Martinez65, he’s just saying he provides necessary care to every patient. That’s the only thing that actually matters—what Scott Allen10 does—not what he thinks or feels.

This is just the Hippocratic Oath translated into American, though even then it's a modification—the basis for the 1948 Geneva Oath.

"I swear by Apollo Physician, by Asclepius, by Hygeia and Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, that I will fulfill this oath and these duties to the best of my ability and conscience. I will honor my teachers as my parents, and treat their children as my brothers and sisters, and if they wish to learn this art, I will teach them without fee or contract. I will allow my own children and my teacher's children to participate in lectures, training, and all other aspects of knowledge. I will teach those students who have sworn this oath and entered into a formal agreement, and no one else. I will establish my rules based on my own strength and knowledge for the benefit of the patient, protecting them from anything that could harm them or cause injustice. I will never give a deadly poison to anyone, even if asked, nor will I advise someone how to do so. Likewise, I won't provide means for an abortion. I will live a pious life and practice my craft with devotion. I won't perform surgery on bladder stones, leaving that to specialists. Whatever house I enter, I will act for the benefit of the patient, avoiding any damage, especially avoiding the seduction of women or men, whether enslaved or free. Whatever I see or learn in the course of my practice, which should not be openly disclosed, I will keep secret. If I keep this oath and do not break it, may I lead a happy life and enjoy the respect of people forever; but if I break it and swear falsely, may the opposite befall me."

Jamie Clark74 said:We really need to focus on suicide prevention... it’s actually possible more often than people think. I mean, where is all that family showing up to cry after someone is gone, when they could have actually stepped up and helped while they were still here?
Maybe the person was dropping hints that they needed help, and everyone just tuned them out?

You nailed it, Jamie Clark74. That's honestly where we can make the biggest impact—prevention is always better than trying to fix things after the fact. But let's be real, society here feels pretty heavy lately; there's so much unemployment and so many people feeling stuck without any real future in sight... it makes it almost impossible to tell if someone is just going through a rough patch or if they're actually planning their exit.
And even if someone does survive an attempt, they often end up back in that same dark place, just like Susan Martin24 mentioned.

Scott Allen10, I never once doubted your expertise or how much you care about the job... It was just the mindset you were holding onto that rubbed me the wrong way. Look, you’re entitled to your opinion—and you're totally fine in my book—as long as it doesn't cloud your objectivity. I definitely came on a bit too strong earlier, you know why, so sorry! 🙂

I honestly find this whole social safety net system just beautiful. I’ve been grinding away as a volunteer for ten months now, currently covering the shifts for two people out on medical leave who are still collecting full paychecks while I pull double the workload. Then, after my actual shift is over, I’m hustling for at least four more hours a day doing side gigs just to cover my rent and groceries. All of this just so I can get the official credit needed to qualify for the state certification exam, and then—fingers crossed—get kicked to the curb after twelve months of working for free. To top it all off, the permanent positions left behind by those on leave will probably just go to someone through some "special connections." Actually, I already have a pretty good idea of who that is.

On the flip side, I dutifully shell out about $133 every month for a prescription I need from time to time, because apparently... that's not covered for free.