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Spondylosis and Osteochondrosis: What are the next steps? Looking for advice/experiences.

Started by Ethan Smith76 · · 👁 4 views · 16 replies

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Participants Ethan Smith76Jamie Clark74Jose Miller3Sophia Martinez65Casey Palmer5
Ethan Smith76 Ethan Smith76 NewcomerOP
6 messages
joined Mar 2006
#1 ·
So, I just got my spinal X-rays back, and the diagnosis is a mouthful: spondylosis, spondyloarthrosis, and osteochondrosis at the L5-S1 segment. I have a vague idea of what that actually means, but I'm looking for some real-world perspective on how to handle this. Is it possible to dodge surgery and actually manage the pain through lifestyle changes and a dedicated exercise routine? Or am I better off just skipping the endless grind of physical therapy and heading straight for the operating table? I'm only 31. I haven't even sat down with a specialist yet—I've just got these X-ray results sitting in front of me. If anyone has been through something similar or has some solid advice...
Jamie Clark74 Jamie Clark74 Regular
278 messages
joined Sep 2004
#2 ·
Spondylosis or degenerative disc disease shows up on scans for just about everyone. Whether it actually causes issues is a different story entirely. It’s rare to find someone in their 60s or 70s who doesn't show some level of change on an X-ray, yet many people with pretty bad-looking X-rays feel fine or only deal with occasional discomfort.
Simply saying you have spondylosis doesn't tell us much. Essentially, it’s just a diagnosis for general wear and tear.
It means the disc is worn down, but based on your description, it doesn't clarify the severity. You might have a protrusion causing narrowing in the spinal canal, but the image you're looking at is likely just an X-ray or CT scan. Those give a general idea of what's happening, but without specific details on the changes, what you're seeing might be perfectly normal. Most cases are managed with anti-inflammatories and physical therapy. We try everything else first; surgery isn't the immediate answer.
If you're having trouble, your primary care doctor will refer you to a specialist. They will evaluate you clinically and use an MRI if necessary to pinpoint the issue. Doctors don't just jump into surgery. Out of every 100 patients a specialist sees, fewer than 5 actually end up needing an operation.

Pushing yourself too hard with intense exercise isn't healthy for anyone, let alone someone with spinal issues. People dealing with back problems need gentle, targeted exercises and core strengthening performed under the guidance of a physical therapist.
Check out this link; it should provide plenty of helpful information.

Lower back pain, disc protrusion, and herniated discs
Ethan Smith76 Ethan Smith76 NewcomerOP
6 messages
joined Mar 2006
#3 ·
The quality of this image is pretty rough, so you can really see how much things have deteriorated. The canal is narrowed down, and that area where the nerve sits? It’s almost completely gone. Lately, I’ve been dealing with constant pain in my back, hips, knees, and even the front of my pelvis. It used to be that if I just popped an Advil, I’d feel like a brand-new person, but now? Even the meds barely touch it. I don't take them often enough to build up a tolerance, so maybe that’s why they aren't hitting the mark anymore. I actually tried seeing a chiropractor—went about ten times—but honestly, it didn't do much. When he looked at these scans, he basically told me this is just how it is for now, but suggested I come back twice a month for maintenance.
Jamie Clark74 Jamie Clark74 Regular
278 messages
joined Sep 2004
#4 ·
Ethan Smith76 said:Based on the photo, things look pretty rough. It’s clear there's significant degeneration. The canal is narrow, and that space where the nerve sits is almost gone. Lately, my back, hips, knees, and even the front of my pelvis have been aching. It used to be that an Advil would make me feel brand new, but now the pain cuts right through them. I don't take them often enough to build a tolerance, so maybe that's why they aren't working. I tried seeing a chiropractor about ten times, but it didn't help much. When he saw the images, he told me this was as good as it gets for now, but suggested I come in twice a month.

Take a look at the link I attached... the illustrations and graphics make it much easier to wrap your head around. You’re likely dealing with active inflammation right now, which is when you really need anti-inflammatories. As for the chiropractor, I won't comment directly, but check the previous comments from people looking for chiropractors and decide for yourself what the truth is. Think about whether they can actually cure you or just offer temporary relief. A chiropractor is great for healthy people who enjoy having someone crack their back and muscles, thinking everything is "back in place" once they hear that pop.

A chiropractor might help keep a healthy body in "tune," but they can't treat degenerative
joints or the spine. They might occasionally nudge something they call a "pinched nerve"—essentially a musculoskeletal issue—but if they could truly fix nerves, we wouldn't need neurosurgeons or Orthoped specialists.

After my second surgery, I ended up with two pinched nerves at L5 & S1... and that's permanent. Nothing can move them because they're stuck in the facet joint. I also have issues at C7 - T1. I haven't been able to move my right arm for 4 or 5 weeks, not to mention the pain. Even after getting a steroid injection for my shoulder, nothing helps the nerves in my neck. I'm currently waiting to see a neurosurgeon and undergo further nerve testing to pinpoint exactly where the compression is.

And who told you it looks that bad?

Even general practitioners aren't always the best at reading an X-ray; most of them just read the official report that comes with the X-ray. Believe me, truly "reading" an X-ray is a difficult skill, unless you're doing it every single day.
Ethan Smith76 Ethan Smith76 NewcomerOP
6 messages
joined Mar 2006
#5 ·
I took a look at those photos you linked, and man, looking at Rengen's shots along with those others... it looks like things have definitely progressed. Those growths—I think it’s called osteo-something? Like some kind of bone overgrowth or calcification.
I didn't even bother seeing my primary care doctor because my chiropractor honestly spooked the life out of me. I actually felt like just heading straight to a gun shop 🙂 to get a pistol just to end the misery, honestly, after she talked to me. She was so encouraging, but I still walked out feeling like I was on my deathbed. I don't think I'm going to keep throwing money down the drain anymore. And frankly, I think these places need to offer more than just spinal adjustments; they really ought to focus on having a positive relationship with their patients, too.
Jamie Clark74 Jamie Clark74 Regular
278 messages
joined Sep 2004
#6 ·
Ethan Smith76 said:I took a look at the images from that link you shared. Looking at the MRI and those other shots, it looks like things have progressed quite a bit. Those growths—osteophytes, I think they're called—look like bone spurs.
I haven't even seen a GP yet; my chiropractor just spooked me so much I almost went straight out to buy a gun🙂 just to end the misery after she encouraged me to seek help. I felt like I was on my deathbed. Honestly, I don't think I'll keep throwing money away. I also feel like practitioners need to offer more than just spinal adjustments; they need a better bedside manner too.

So, who sent you for an X-ray? Around here, chiropractors often take their own X-rays and claim they know best, telling you exactly what needs to be imaged and which specific X-ray to take...
THAT'S WHY after 200 visits to a chiropractor, I don't believe a word they say. I've been through it all... there are plenty of other "alternative" types out there who are just looking to drain people's bank accounts.

Generally speaking, don't expect much sympathy for your pain or your issues. Specialists see this stuff day in and day out; to them, it’s just part of the job.

I'm talking about how specialists interact with my psychiatrist... and she tells me neurosurgeons are among the worst when it comes to communicating. If they aren't planning on operating, they won't give a clear answer, leaving you feeling like nothing is actually wrong with you... then they just tell you to come back if things don't improve.

In my 37 years, I've seen dozens of specialists for various ailments. Some were excellent and very easy to talk to, but many of the younger ones seemed incredibly arrogant. Maybe they're just afraid of making a mistake, or maybe they simply don't know. They don't realize that someone who has spent 30 years trying everything knows far more about their own body than they do. They know doctors might not be able to help, but they keep going anyway, always hoping for some kind of miracle...

Don't stress too much over what your chiropractor said or what you think you see on an X-ray. Believe me, it took me five years to actually understand how to read my own X-ray, and I have medical training.

I never diagnose myself. Instead, I just see how things progress, and I've always sought a second or third opinion. I had two surgeries scheduled within three years, and I didn't go through with the last one until the very last minute in 2004... I was told there was only a 40-50% chance of success, and I risked ending up in a wheelchair.

The truth is, because of those two levels—L5-L4 and L4-L3—being operated on in 2004, my stenosis was cleared, but then things worsened. Six months later, my L5 became embedded in the facet joint, followed shortly by the S1... and it’s staying that way for the rest of my life. Surgery is now only an option in an emergency, as it's currently interfering with my bladder and bowel control... constant pressure.
My first surgery was way back in 1972, during the early days of laminectomies when they used 300mm openings for the L5-S1 area.

Get to a doctor as soon as possible—specifically a neurologist or an Orthoped. Make sure it's someone who specializes strictly in the spine, not just a general Orthoped.

Look, with my arm being non-functional, I'm seeing two specialists: one focuses solely on shoulders, and he's sending me to a neurologist for an EMG nerve block test, and then eventually to a neurosurgeon for my cervical spine... because there's degeneration there too, spanning 10-15 years, with pinched nerves.

I wish you the best of luck... try to give yourself a chance to recover through non-surgical means if at all possible first... and then we'll see how it goes.

Regarding your osteophytes... those growths don't necessarily have to cause problems, but you need a specialist to decide if they are indeed causing issues with your lumbar spine and how severe it is.

😎
Ethan Smith76 Ethan Smith76 NewcomerOP
6 messages
joined Mar 2006
#7 ·
Thanks for putting in the effort, but I've realized you can't really pin anything down just by guessing like this. I'm going to have to go see a specialist to get a clear picture of what's actually going on.
The one thing I am certain about? Whether there's a lot of pain or just a little, these issues are going to follow me around for the rest of my life.
Maybe I should just skip the line and jump straight to morphine🤣—honestly, that doesn't sound like a bad idea right now.👍
😈Give me an answer, voice😈
Just kidding—I don't want anyone taking that the wrong way.
Jose Miller3 Jose Miller3 Regular
446 messages
joined Mar 2024
#8 ·
Ethan Smith76 said:Thanks for the help, but I guess you can't really figure anything out just by guessing like this. I'll have to go see a specialist to find out what's actually going on.

Hold on a second—did you seriously think you were gonna on an online forum get actual medical intel about a serious illness that could somehow replace seeing a doctor? Like, a real specialist?

Good grief...
Jamie Clark74 Jamie Clark74 Regular
278 messages
joined Sep 2004
#9 ·
Ethan Smith76 said:I appreciate the effort, but I don't think we can settle anything based on guesswork. I’ll need to see a specialist to figure out exactly what’s going on.
The only thing I know for sure is that these issues, whether they hurt more or less, are going to be a lifelong struggle.
Maybe I should just jump straight to morphine🤣 ; honestly, that wouldn't be the worst idea.👍
😈 respond to me, voice😈
Just a joke—don't take it the wrong way.


Why won't you just take a moment to read the entire link I sent you?
It’s packed with doctor-level info and specialist insights. You aren't going to find better explanations for laypeople or experts anywhere else... I don't even know what you're looking for. There's plenty of info out there, but how much searching are you planning to do?

You'll also find my own experience there—37 years of frustration and everything I've been through.
It covers the whole treatment process from start to finish... from dealing with inflammation that lasts 4-6 weeks to surgery, including what to expect if you end up needing an operation.

As for your specific situation, we can't say much more than "an X-ray report is needed"... and even then, two different specialists might give you two different opinions.
A specialist doesn't just look at a report; they interpret the X-ray themselves. Or, if that isn't enough, they'll order an MRI to get a clearer look at the spine, whether it's disc degeneration or an injury... to see if a nerve is pinched or just nearby causing reflexes. Then, after a clinical exam, they decide your neurological status. They'll determine if you can treat it without surgery first using physical therapy, anti-inflammatory tablets, and analgesics/painkillers, and then they'll see you again in 6 weeks depending on how it goes.

Good grief, what would I have done if I hadn't lived with pain for 37 years straight?

I know everyone thinks they "know their own illness" best... because they feel it. I know how many nights I've sat there thinking I won't survive until morning because of the pain... and then it happens all over again.

I could get high on whatever I wanted... but I can't stand the side effects. That zombie feeling, the itching, not being able to sleep for two or three days after taking something... and the pain still doesn't stop.

I truly sympathize with what you're going through... but unfortunately, no one can carry this pain for you. I can only tell you that you don't know what real pain is yet. I'm sending you a link about the condition I live with—it's a complication from surgery, and it's something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

ARACHNOIDITIS


The only way to deal with the pain is to realize there’s always someone suffering worse than you. I can laugh at myself and say, "Well, it can't get any worse than this," when a doctor tells me... "Jamie Clark74, you know what... we need a chest scan." Or knowing you have asbestosis, then getting an MRI report saying you need an X-ray... something about red marrow reconversion... and them asking if you used to smoke and how much. This was just last week. See? I'm basically aiming for a world record in confirmed diagnoses from various specialists.😂

That's just life.😁
Ethan Smith76 Ethan Smith76 NewcomerOP
6 messages
joined Mar 2006
#10 ·
Jose Miller3 said:Hold on a second, did you actually think you were going to get on this forum any kind of medical advice for a serious illness that could actually substitute for seeing a specialist doctor?????????????

Good grief...[/QUOT
That’s not what I meant at all. I was just curious if anyone else deals with similar issues—you know, how people cope with it, or if there's anything helpful regarding things like exercise, swimming, and stuff like that.
Sophia Martinez65 Sophia Martinez65 Member
45 messages
joined Jan 2006
#11 ·
Ethan Smith76 said:That’s not what I meant—just trying to see if anyone else is dealing with similar issues, how they manage, and what kind of stuff works regarding exercises, swimming, and all that.

And you stumbled right onto Jamie Clark74😲—the guy who’s got an answer for everything, even when he doesn't, and let's be honest, optimism isn't exactly his thing.😬 If you want to pick his brain, he’s got his own dedicated thread, so just head over there.

Listen to Jose Miller3! 👍
Casey Palmer5 Casey Palmer5 Regular
470 messages
joined Jan 2016
#12 ·
Oh, come on, it’s probably not as bad as you think. That scan result doesn't mean much at all—honestly, tons of people have those kinds of degenerative changes in their spine once they hit their thirties.

Try to stay positive! Getting into some swimming (backstroke is great) and dropping a few pounds if you're carrying a little extra around the middle will definitely help. As for surgery? Honestly, that usually isn't the answer...
Jamie Clark74 Jamie Clark74 Regular
278 messages
joined Sep 2004
#13 ·
Sophia Martinez65 said:And you found Jamie Clark74. 😲 Every pot has its matching lid, and somehow he managed to end up without one. And when it comes to looking on the bright side? Let’s just say optimism isn't exactly his calling card. 😬 If you want to dig deeper into what he's about, just head over to his main thread. Everything you need is right there.

Listen to Jose Miller3! 👍

When I ask a specialist about how my condition is progressing, I don't go in looking for an optimistic pep talk. I’m looking for what’s actually written on my chart. I need the reality. That's the version I have to live with, after all.
It’s like expecting the sun to rise every single day and the night to fall just because it should. There are no "miracles" coming to save us, and nothing is going to change overnight. I spent way too long living in a state of pure optimism, and frankly, I was just kidding myself. Realism is the better word. Optimism is really just wishful thinking and lying to yourself.

Optimism definitely has its place in life... just like reality does.

None of the times I went in for surgery did we ever talk about being "optimistic." We talked about reality. I chose to view that reality through an optimistic lens, and honestly, I was wrong.
When I sit down with my pulmonologist to discuss asbestosis, we aren't just talking numbers—we’re facing reality. We're looking straight at what my lung capacity actually looks like.
Breathing issues, plaque buildup, and asbestosis... it’s a lot to deal with.

Optimism is a beautiful concept; it provides hope. But then there’s realism—seeing things exactly as they are. Honestly, I think realists can be much tougher than optimists sometimes. They aren't sitting around waiting for miracles to happen.

I wish I could be an optimist, too.😁But most importantly, it all comes down to willpower. That’s the strongest thing we have. It’s what tears down walls and helps you push through the pain. It’s what carries you through that final stretch when you feel like you can't make it to the bench to sit down. It isn't about being an optimist; it's about grit.
As you get older and more experienced, your outlook on life shifts. You move from wide-eyed optimism to a grounded realism, and eventually, to sheer willpower. Once you lose that drive, you’ve lost everything.

😎
Sophia Martinez65 Sophia Martinez65 Member
45 messages
joined Jan 2006
#14 ·
Jamie Clark74 said:When I ask a specialist about how my condition is progressing, I don't go in asking for the "optimistic" version—I ask for what’s actually going to be signed on my medical charts, the "realistic" version. That's the reality I have to live with.
Just like the sun rises and sets every day regardless of how you feel... there are no "miracles" where everything just suddenly changes. I spent way too long living in "optimism." Realism is the right word here. Optimism is mostly just wishful thinking and lying to yourself.

Sure, optimism has its place in life... just like reality does.

Every single time I went in for surgery, we didn't talk about being "optimistic"—we talked about the REALITY. And I made the mistake of accepting that reality with an optimistic mindset.
Now, when I see a lung specialist regarding my asbestosis, we look at the facts... my breathing capacity
and the pleural thickening from the asbestosis...

Optimism is a nice word and it gives you hope, but realism is simply what is. Sometimes people with realism are much stronger than the optimists... because they aren't sitting around waiting for a "miracle."

I wish I could be an optimist too...😁...but more than anything, it's WILLPOWER. That's the strongest thing there is. It’s what knocks down walls, what helps you endure the pain, and what gets you through that last yard when you think you won't make it to the bench to sit down... not optimism.
As you get older and more experienced, your priorities shift from optimism to realism, and finally to pure willpower. Once you lose that will, you've got nothing left.

😎

Jamie Clark74, what you wrote here is completely off-topic. That’s exactly why you were moved to the other thread to post stuff like this. 😁
Jamie Clark74 Jamie Clark74 Regular
278 messages
joined Sep 2004
#15 ·
Sophia Martinez65 said:Jamie Clark74, what you wrote here is completely off-topic. That’s exactly why you were moved to the off-topic thread for stuff like this.😁

I don't see how this is off-topic... why wouldn't it be?
A patient's mindset regarding their illness is incredibly important. Take > for example—he's already panicking and jumping straight to surgery...

Your mental state during treatment is just as vital as your physical condition.

🙂 😉 😎
Sophia Martinez65 Sophia Martinez65 Member
45 messages
joined Jan 2006
#16 ·
Ethan Smith76 said:I got an X-ray and the diagnosis is spondylosis, spondyloarthrosis, and osteochondrosis at the L5-S1 segment. I have a rough idea of what that means, but I’m wondering what the move is here. Can I dodge surgery and manage the pain just by changing my lifestyle and grinding through physical therapy—or is it better to skip the torture and just get the operation over with? I'm 31. I haven't seen a specialist yet, just the X-ray results. If anyone has advice...


This is Ethan Smith76's question, and this is your response:

Jamie Clark74 said:When I ask a specialist about how a disease is progressing, I don't ask "optimistically"... I ask what's written in the report "realistically"... because that's the reality I have to live with.
Just like the sun rises and sets every day regardless of how you feel—there are no "miracles" where things just magically change. I lived in "optimism" for a long time... realism is the right word. Optimism is just expectation and lying to yourself.

Sure, optimism has its place in life... just like reality does.

Not once when I went in for surgery did we talk about being "OPTIMISTIC"... we talked about REALITY... which I accepted OPTIMISTICALLY and ended up getting wrong.
When I see a pulmonologist regarding asbestosis, we look at the reality... my breathing capacity
and the spreading plaques and asbestosis...

Optimism is a nice word and it gives hope... but realism is what actually is. Sometimes people with realism are much stronger than optimists... because they aren't waiting for a "miracle."

I wish I were an optimist too... but most importantly, it's WILL... that's the strongest thing there is. It's what knocks down walls, what lets you endure the pain, what gets you through that last yard when you think you can't make it to the bench to sit down... not optimism.
As you get older and more experienced, your priorities shift from optimism to realism, and finally to sheer will... once you lose that will, you've got nothing left.

If you still don't realize you're off-topic... anyway, I'm off-topic now too, so I'll stop the tangent here, Jamie Clark74. 😉

PS True, this isn't the first answer to Ethan Smith76's question... but instead of sticking to the topic—which is spondylosis, spondyloarthrosis, and osteochondrosis—you veered way off into your own asbestosis, arachnoiditis, and whatever else, and that's exactly why you got flagged for this thread. 😬
Ethan Smith76 Ethan Smith76 NewcomerOP
6 messages
joined Mar 2006
#17 ·
I’ve been sitting on this for a few days now, and honestly, I think I might have overreacted a little bit... but man, that chiropractor really left a bad taste in my mouth. She charged me $220 and I can't say for certain that she actually did anything to help. It felt like she was intentionally gaslighting me just to distract from the fact that nothing changed, all while pushing this aggressive three-week plan where I’d need to show up every other day. From her perspective, the options were either giving me my money back 🤣 or feeding me some nonsense excuse that I just wasn't buying. The worst part? I managed to quit smoking about six weeks ago, and I almost relapsed and grabbed a pack of Marlboros the very same day she ripped me off, but somehow I held it together. 😲 I'm still struggling with the cravings, though. 😲
How do you close a thread? Is it something I can do myself, or does someone else have to handle it?
Go ahead and close it.

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