Independence Day vs. War of the Worlds

Eric Jackson43 said:Look, the point is that ID is trash while War of the Worlds isn't. I listed why ID sucks, whereas you can't even think of one single strong argument against War of the Worlds. Sure, we can find flaws in War of the Worlds—it’s not a perfect movie to me either—but any comparison to ID, which insults the audience with its approach even if you frame it as a comedy, is out of the question.

BTW, do you seriously think kids would stay composed in a real situation like that? I actually like the kid; you can see his character during that ferry scene. While Tom Cruise is hiding inside the ferry thinking only about himself and the kids, the little guy is running around trying to help the crew hanging off the ramp. It doesn't sit right with me that the kid survives, even though by all "laws" of cinema he should've died. It's stupid how Spielberg forced a 100% happy ending.

...man, WotW is just loaded with clichés. Total nonsense—Tom Cruise is always first on the scene, barely breaking a sweat while people literally vanish around him in a heartbeat. For half the damn movie, he doesn't even tell his kids what's happening or who's attacking them + the "don't look" bit (as if they wouldn't notice the crumbling buildings and dead bodies), which obviously just cranks up the psychosis and screaming 😱 for them. And then there's the classic trope (wherever I've seen this before?) where the clinic goes to pee—they walk two hundred yards into the bushes because apparently the dad and brother have to watch her pee—for crying out loud, just go behind the car and let's move! Honestly, a young Che Guevara would have started a whole revolution over that—just slapped him and called it a day. This all stems from the fact that Tom still hasn't explained to them who is attacking. Plus, the aliens use some EMP thing to wreck all the cars, planes, and everything else, BUT one Boeing still crashes into a house—just a little intermission for the wreckage. Then, naturally—as the ONLY person at that moment with a working car, you weave through thousands of people who, of course, wave at you and let you pass on your way to your destination. When he takes out that one tripod with the bomb, and since there was no agreement among the captives—WHY does that soldier pull him out instead of the other guy? In a city like Boston—with that massive army wandering around, only our brave Tom, the seasoned forklift driver, realizes the tripods don't have shields—BOOM, the tripods fall like nothing. CUT to the future—the President of the USA opens a school named after T. Cruise. And finally—the ghettos and the poor are leveled to the ground, while the wealthy suburbs stay untouched?

..oh yeah... it's totally normal that the aliens DON'T have scanners or similar gadgets, but instead drag things through the ruins of some "monster lair," and don't even get me started on the lack of microscopes or water analysis...

..these are the things I remember after watching a movie JUST ONCE. Wait until I rewatch it a few more times.

It honestly baffles me that we didn't get a scene where Tom uses his crane-operating skills to absolutely wreck those aliens 😁 .

Look, the movie has its plot holes, but Tom isn't some flawless superhero, and I guess that's kind of the charm—he’s just looking out for himself and his kids (unlike the little guy), and since an alien didn't immediately fry him, obviously the movie isn't going to follow a character that gets toasted in five minutes.
Sure, there are holes, but if this were Independence Day, you know that same Tom would be leading a bunch of American patriots toward a glorious victory using that crane.

PS, I still don't see any massive issues with how they acted; honestly, most real people would probably react the exact same way (which doesn't mean it's the smartest move at the time, but it feels real enough)

fadedsailor932 said:...I mean, WotW is just loaded with clichés. It’s kind of silly—Tom Cruise is everywhere right at the start, and he barely has any muscle on him while people are literally vanishing into thin air before you can even say "bzzz."

I guess if they had killed him off at the very beginning, there wouldn't be a movie at all, right? I mean, when someone asks why a specific character survives all those disasters in a certain film, the answer is pretty simple: if they didn't, we wouldn't be watching a movie about them, we'd be watching some other guy who is 😁 😁

fadedsailor932 said:For half the damn movie, he doesn't actually explain what's happening to his kids, or like, who's attacking them. Plus, the whole "don't look" thing (as if they won't see the ruined buildings and dead bodies), which I suppose just makes the psychosis and the screaming feel even more intense.

maybe something like this:

ARRRRGHHHH... WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE... ARRRGHHHH... ALIENS ARE COMING FROM ANOTHER WORLD AND THEY PLAN ON SUCKING OUR BLOOD AND PULLING OUR INSIDES OUT.... THEY'RE GONNA KILL US... DON'T YOU GET IT (grabs the girl by the neck and starts shaking her frantically with a crazed look on his face)... DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND....??? WHY AREN'T YOU SCREAMING...??? WHY AREN'T YOU SHITTING YOUR PANTS LIKE ME...??? WHYYYYY!!!!???

fadedsailor932 said:..yeah right... because obviously aliens DON'T need scanners or any similar gear, they just drag stuff through some "reptilian" ruins, and let's not even get started on how they manage microscopes or water analysis...

Maybe it's because their technological evolution took a completely different path altogether. Or maybe it’s just because they think in ways we can't even fathom. Their brains might be wired so differently that what seems like common sense to you wouldn't even cross their minds.

quietdriver3 said:I mean, if they killed him off at the start, there wouldn't even be a movie, right? When people ask why a certain character survives all the chaos in a film, the answer is pretty obvious: if he didn't, we’d be watching a movie about someone else who is 😁 😁

...well, that's exactly why he doesn't have to be everywhere, except maybe when his son—a soldier on the front lines—is in the fight. Our guy Tom Cruise is always around, and somehow, he never breaks a sweat.

maybe more like this:

ARRRRGHHHH... WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE... ARRRGHHHH... Aliens are coming from another world and they plan on sucking our blood and pulling our insides out.... They're gonna kill us... Don't you get it (grabs the little girl by the neck and starts shaking her frantically with a crazed look on his face)... DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND....??? WHY AREN'T YOU SCREAMING...??? WHY AREN'T YOU SHITTING YOUR PANTS LIKE ME...??? WHYYYYY!!!!???

..or maybe like this...

...it's nothing, kids. Don't look out the window, because everything you see is just a product of your imagination and enemy propaganda designed to stir unrest among our ranks...🙄

Eric Jackson43 said:Maybe it's just because their tech development took a completely different path.

..or maybe it's because they’d find Tom, Tim, and Dakota in a heartbeat and just zap them.. or turn them into fertilizer...😁, but sure—I'll take that as an argument.

And maybe it's because they think in a totally different way. Maybe their brains are wired differently, so what seems logical to you doesn't even cross their minds.

..exactly...

Alien 1 (a million years ago): Look, there's Earth. See it?
OTHER ALIENS: WE SEE IT!!!!
Alien 1: What a beautiful planet. Let's bury our tripods here and then, one day... whenever we feel like it... we'll come back and conquer Earth. We can't right now because it's only inhabited by some parasites, bacteria, viruses, single-celled organisms, or whatever—and those things are, as you know, soooo dangerous to our health. So let's wait until they evolve into something bigger and smarter, then we'll show up and wipe them all out.
OTHER ALIENS: BRAVOOOOOOO!!!!
ONE ALIEN SUSPICIOUS: Errr... but what if those same organisms on Earth change in a million years?
Alien 1: Bzzzzzppp....They won't!

PRESENT TIME

ALIEN1111 (great-great-great-grandson of the guy above): Ha, see? Didn't my great-grandpa say there wouldn't be any problems?
OTHER ALIENS: BRAVOOOOOO!!!!
ANOTHER ALIEN SUSPICIOUS: Should we maybe run some analysis just in case?
ALIEN1111: Bzzzzpppp...No we won't...

..I mean....who the hell actually conquered Earth when they buried those tripods in it?

Eric Jackson43 said:It’s weird there aren't scenes where Tom uses his crane skills to wipe out the aliens 😁.

..if it were anything similar, Ripley 😁 could have
.

The movie has plot holes, sure, but Tom isn't always the first one in. That's kind of the charm. He's just thinking about himself and the kids (unlike the little guy). And since an alien didn't instantly fry him, obviously the movie isn't going to follow a character who gets taken out immediately.

..man, he really isn't the first one everywhere. The only time he isn't leading the charge (which doesn't help his case) is that fight where his son runs off...

Of course the movie has holes, but in Independence Day, that same Tom would be leading American patriots to ultimate victory using a crane.

...and I’d be way happier with a script like that. 😁

PS: I still don't see major issues with how they act. I think most real people would behave that way (it might not be the smartest move at the moment, but it's realistic).

...panic and fear are the worst things in those situations, I agree, BUT—would you actually let your kid wander two hundred yards into the brush just to pee in a situation like that? Or would you head out with the ONLY working vehicle in the middle of thousands of crazed people, just hoping they'd leave you alone?

...basically...just so we're on the same page...ID is a garbage movie—but at least it's the kind of garbage that doesn't pretend to be something else, you know? "An SF film that explores and details the relationships between father and child during the chaotic moment of an alien attack on Earth, which serves merely as a trigger for a deeper analysis of the behavior of children from broken homes and their struggle for parental affection and respect." Or whatever other nonsense we've been getting hit with lately in the papers, on the radio, and all that. I've watched ID ten times, and I'll probably watch it ten more. The movie is just full of American trash, cheesiness, and all that extra junk—that's it. Just something to kill a Sunday afternoon. WotW is a pretentious mess that can't decide if it wants to be a "drama" or a blockbuster, and in trying to mash them together, Spielberg got stuck in some cliché, half-baked stupidity.

fadedsailor932 said:ALIEN 1 (a million years ago): So, this is Earth. You guys seeing this?
OTHER ALIENS: WE SEE IT!!!!
ALIEN 1: It’s a gorgeous planet. I think we’ll just bury our tripods here and then, you know, one day... once we finally feel like conquering Earth. I mean, we can't right now because it’s mostly just inhabited by some parasites, bacteria, viruses, single-celled organisms, or whatever they are. And those things are, well, you know, super dangerous to our health. So, we’ll just wait for them to evolve into something bigger and smarter, and then we'll come back and wipe everything out.
OTHER ALIENS: BRAVOOOOOOO!!!!
ONE ALIEN SUSPICIOUS: Errrr... but what if those same organisms are still on Earth in a million years?
ALIEN 1: Bzzzzzppp.... No, they won't be!

or maybe it went more like this:

ALIEN 1 (a million years ago): So, this is Earth. You guys seeing this?
OTHER ALIENS: WE SEE IT!!!!
ALIEN 1: Man, this is a beautiful planet. I'd love to have it in my personal collection of awesome planets, but since we're still stuck in that awkward developmental stage between an electric shaver and a jet engine, we don't really have the tech to survive that trek of, I don't know, several million kilometers. 😢
ALIEN 2: Excuse me, sir, but maybe we could just send these little drones of ours toward that amazing planet? We could program them to dig themselves in and just wait for us to show up whenever we finally get the technology. 😬
ALIEN 1: OK kid, sounds crazy enough to actually work. You've got the job.👍

fadedsailor932 said:<..after about ten minutes of pure screaming and kids looking completely traumatized because they can actually SEE all this massive crap happening everywhere (destroyed cities, piles of bodies, and all that—plus those same terrified little kids asking things like, is it Al-Qaeda? Is it the Russians? Some other kind of terrorists, or is old man Bush just playing war? Tell me, Dad—what's going on? What? WHAT? Our very own Tom Cruise, wearing this equally crazed look while trying to bring a bit of calm to the room, just says:>

...it's nothing, sweethearts. Don't look out the window, because everything you see is just a product of your imagination and enemy propaganda meant to stir up unrest among our ranks...🙄

"Earth is under attack by the alien beings from another planet."

It’s honestly impossible to say a line like that with a straight face, I guess. 😁 😁 😁

Maybe even the screenwriter realized that at some point 👍

quietdriver3 said:maybe it actually went like this:

ALIEN 1 (a million years ago): Look, there's Earth. See it?
OTHER ALIENS: WE SEE IT!!!!
ALIEN 1: It's a beautiful planet. I want it for my personal collection of lovely planets, but since we're still in that developmental stage somewhere between an electric shaver and a jet engine, we don't have the tech to survive that massive trek of millions of miles. 😢
ALIEN 2: Excuse me sir, but maybe we could just send these little drones of ours to that gorgeous planet, program them to dig in and wait for us until we finally get the tech? 😬
ALIEN 1: OK kid, sounds crazy enough to work, you got the job. 👍

😁

..basically, these aliens are incredibly stupid for trying to conquer Earth (hey man—EARTH!!!!) while ignoring the basic rules of invasion. You gotta do a few things first:
a.) Analyze the conditions (air, soil, water, and all that stuff) of the potential target, or at least hire a super incompetent expert who DID analyze the air (which is, let's be honest, as clean as it gets here on Earth) and satisfied himself with its purity, telling himself: "If the air is this clean, the ground and water must be even cleaner."
<in the background, a choir of kids sings: "America, the land of liberty, the stars and stripes, and the deep blue sea...">

b.) Ignore warnings from other alien colleagues who tried and failed, specifically: "Forget about the military and weapons the humans have—they aren't your biggest threat. The real danger is the ingenuity, perception, and sharp wits of the average person."

😁

quietdriver3 said:"Earth is under attack by the alien beings from another planet."

There is simply no way to say a sentence like that with a straight face. 😁 😁 😁

Maybe even the screenwriter realized that. 👍

..there's some truth to that. But they could have fixed it easily with different writing tricks. I mean, if we're putting ourselves in the shoes of Tom and the kids—it would be way easier for me to know exactly who or what is attacking us. If my dad burst into my room and said, "Get up son, the Italians are invading!" I'd probably just stare blankly and turn over to go back to sleep. But if he bursts in and yells, "Get up son, the degenerates aliens are attacking!!!"—now that's a different story... than being told "Don't look" (as if I would) or being told that everything is just happening... accidentally... on its own...

northerncrane4 said:What would you actually prefer: someone giving you a hard kiss on the mouth, or dealing with a bout of diarrhea instead?

🤣 🤣 😂 😂 🤣 🤣 😂 😂

Laura Evans3 said:🤣 🤣 😂 😂 🤣 🤣 😂 😂

Why are you laughing? SHUT IT! 😉

northerncrane4 said:What are you laughing at? EAT IT! 😉

Which kind? Diarrhea or a solid stool? 😂 😂

Jeremy Bishop5 said:Which kind? Diarrhea or solid? 😂 😂

What do you think? I didn't exactly write: CHEW! 😎

northerncrane4 said:What do you think? I didn't say: CHEW IT! 😎

Not gonna happen? Then YOU chew it! 🙂

You’re better off reading The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy instead. In that story, aliens basically wreck the planet just because it was sitting in the way of their new interstellar highway. Honestly, I can't help but think it sounds a lot like our own government and how things work here in America...🙄

Feels like we’ve drifted a bit from the main topic here...🤷
For me, Independence Day and War of the Worlds are pretty much on the same level quality-wise. Both have their highs and lows, sure... but if I actually had to pick one, I’m going with Independence Day. It’s mostly just pure childhood nostalgia. It was one of the first alien invasion flicks I ever saw, so I guess I just have a soft spot for it... anyway, long story short: Independence Day👍 👍 👍
War of the Worlds👍

Independence Day is just pure, unadulterated fun and total trash in the best way possible. War of the worlds only tripped up at the very end. If you could just cut those last ten minutes—which were honestly some of the worst I’ve ever seen—it would be an absolute masterpiece.

Both movies feel a bit hollow, honestly—though I have to give them credit for having top-tier special effects! If I had to pick a winner, my vote goes to Independence Day just because I enjoy it more, but let’s be real: both films fall pretty short when you hold them up against a masterpiece like Close Encounters of the Third Kind.