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Lolita (1962)

Started by Elizabeth Garcia2 · · 👁 7 views · 38 replies

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Participants Elizabeth Garcia2Carol Long95stormyviper11brightscout63Rachel WoodRaymond Carter2Sophia Williamsredowl90dustyscout53Lawrence Booth2gentlepuma20Noah Watson4Joseph Lee3Kate TorresRobert Richardson3Jacob Jackson7Karen Smith9Sam Castillo7velvetcrane57Tyler Garcia2rapidbadger38wiredbison82shadowhawk31
Sophia Williams Sophia Williams Active Member
77 messages
joined Aug 2003
#21 ·
Lyne’s version portrays Lolita as more much of a victim—both compared to the book and Kubrick's film.
The movie stays consistent and feels justified...

It would be fascinating to compare which director decided to "cut" what.
For instance, that hotel scene where Quilty uses wordplay to intimidate Humbert would have worked beautifully under Kubrick...!

.......
Joseph Lee3 Joseph Lee3 Active Member
113 messages
joined May 2005
#22 ·
Has anyone ever seen that 1997 version of Lolita pop up in our local rental shops? I'm looking for some intel. It aired on TV recently, but my plans to sit down and watch the whole thing uninterrupted just went up in smoke. 😢

It’s honestly a tragedy that we don't have the complete, uncut Kubrick version of Lolita preserved. What people are watching these days isn't the director's vision—it's just the product of heavy-handed censorship. 👎
Kate Torres Kate Torres Member
45 messages
joined Jun 2008
#23 ·
Joseph Lee3 said:Has anyone ever seen that 1997 version of Lolita pop up in our local rental shops? I'm looking for some intel. It aired on TV recently, but my plans to sit down and watch the whole thing uninterrupted just went up in smoke. 😢

It’s honestly a tragedy that we don't have the complete, uncut Kubrick version of Lolita preserved. What people are watching these days isn't the director's vision—it's just the product of heavy-handed censorship. 👎

I think I have it on tape in my video collection—I'm pretty sure—but I'm not certain about the DVD. I'll check and let you know.😉
Robert Richardson3 Robert Richardson3 Member
12 messages
joined Feb 2009
#24 ·
I honestly think the book is fantastic—both the first and second versions, all five parts.
Jacob Jackson7 Jacob Jackson7 Newcomer
8 messages
joined May 2007
#25 ·
Lolita, what a massive glorification of pedophilia!☕
Joseph Lee3 Joseph Lee3 Active Member
113 messages
joined May 2005
#26 ·
Kate Torres said:I think I have it on tape in my video collection—I'm pretty sure—but I'm not certain about the DVD. I'll check and let you know.😉

Man, you guys... do people even talk about "video rental stores" anymore? It feels like Americans have completely lost that sense of old-school romance. I actually miss it. Like, when I go visit my parents for the whole day on a holiday, part of me really wants to swing by a rental shop to grab a tape, since my folks still cling to their old VHS player instead of upgrading to a DVD player. But—of course, I can't. You can't find a single tape anywhere these days. 😢

Getting back to Lolita. Personally, I think Kubrick's vision is quite a departure from Lyne's. For starters, I wouldn't even try to draw direct parallels between the literary and cinematic expressions; I prefer to appreciate Lolita as its own entity, judged by the merits of each specific medium and author.

The fundamental difference between Nabokov's Lolita (aside from being the only true original), Lyne's Lolita, and Kubrick's version is that Kubrick offers a satirical commentary on the book itself. He takes the material and interprets it, but his film acts more as a critique of the story rather than just a straightforward adaptation. Because of that, Kubrick's Lolita shouldn't be analyzed solely through the lens of how Nabokov intended it, but rather through the way Kubrick uses the film to critique the literary Lolita. To me, it feels almost like a cinematic review of the novel. In that light, comparing Sellers's Quilty to the literary version seems a bit misplaced. It’s precisely through that character that Kubrick delivers his commentary on the entire concept of pedophilia and similar depravities.
Karen Smith9 Karen Smith9 Active Member
183 messages
joined Apr 2013
#27 ·
Jacob Jackson7 said:Lolita, what a massive glorification of pedophilia!☕

I mean, come on—are we really going to pretend that models, majorettes, and all that other nonsense don't count?🙄
Karen Smith9 Karen Smith9 Active Member
183 messages
joined Apr 2013
#28 ·
Joseph Lee3 said:Man, you guys... do people even talk about "video rental stores" anymore? It feels like Americans have completely lost that sense of old-school romance. I actually miss it. Like, when I go visit my parents for the whole day on a holiday, part of me really wants to swing by a rental shop to grab a tape, since my folks still cling to their old VHS player instead of upgrading to a DVD player. But—of course, I can't. You can't find a single tape anywhere these days. 😢

Getting back to Lolita. Personally, I think Kubrick's vision is quite a departure from Lyne's. For starters, I wouldn't even try to draw direct parallels between the literary and cinematic expressions; I prefer to appreciate Lolita as its own entity, judged by the merits of each specific medium and author.

The fundamental difference between Nabokov's Lolita (aside from being the only true original), Lyne's Lolita, and Kubrick's version is that Kubrick offers a satirical commentary on the book itself. He takes the material and interprets it, but his film acts more as a critique of the story rather than just a straightforward adaptation. Because of that, Kubrick's Lolita shouldn't be analyzed solely through the lens of how Nabokov intended it, but rather through the way Kubrick uses the film to critique the literary Lolita. To me, it feels almost like a cinematic review of the novel. In that light, comparing Sellers's Quilty to the literary version seems a bit misplaced. It’s precisely through that character that Kubrick delivers his commentary on the entire concept of pedophilia and similar depravities.


Look, Lyne is just a plain old exhibitionist—you can tell by his massive filmography—so discussing him in the same sentence as Kubrick feels almost blasphemous. 😛
Sam Castillo7 Sam Castillo7 Member
31 messages
joined Mar 2009
#29 ·
gentlepuma20 said:You just can't escape comparing it to the book when you're dealing with one of the greatest novels ever written. I guess Kubrick's mistake was even attempting to adapt something like this in the first place. It’s not even that translating the novel into a screenplay is a true art form—given the subject matter and the censorship issues—it’s just... well, it seems impossible to do right because the prose is so layered. There's too much linguistic play; the book is really the only medium where Lolita actually feels right. 🙂
There's that scene near the beginning where Humbert accidentally touches Lolita's hand. In the book, that moment is described perfectly—the details, how he feels, her reaction, the tension in the air—it's incredible. In the movie, the scene lasts about a second—they touch, they share a weird look, she walks away. That's why the film doesn't quite hit the mark for me—Lolita is such an amazing novel because of those tiny, internal moments, not because of the plot itself. And that’s what gets lost in the film.

Exactly!
Whether it's the description of her knees or that phase where she's transitioning from a girl into a young woman—how her body changes and she becomes someone else entirely... I remember going back to those passages several times just to soak them in.
The movie is visually striking in its own way, sure, but it doesn't offer what the book provides.
velvetcrane57 velvetcrane57 Active Member
63 messages
joined Mar 2015
#30 ·
redowl90 said:No, honestly, the movie was just 👎

Tiring and pretty dull...

I've heard the book is fantastic, but after watching the film, I don't really feel much of an urge to pick it up...


I’m starting to think you might be the biggest Kubrick hater on this entire forum... 😁
velvetcrane57 velvetcrane57 Active Member
63 messages
joined Mar 2015
#31 ·
Elizabeth Garcia2 said:Guys, why on earth are you even comparing the book to the movie?????😕
It honestly makes zero sense... a book and a film are two completely different mediums and they just CANNOT BE COMPARED. It’s like trying to compare apples to oranges... really.
You compare a book to another book, and a movie to another movie. You can't just mix them up like that.
I get that someone might feel let down by an adaptation, I really do, but in my opinion, saying "THE BOOK WAS BETTER THAN THE MOVIE" is just plain foolishness.


I am in complete agreement with you... I truly cannot stand people who just lazily declare the book was better than the film... it's utterly nonsensical.
Robert Richardson3 Robert Richardson3 Member
12 messages
joined Feb 2009
#32 ·
Sam Castillo7 said:Exactly!
Whether it's the description of her knees or that phase where she's transitioning from a girl into a young woman—how her body changes and she becomes someone else entirely... I remember going back to those passages several times just to soak them in.
The movie is visually striking in its own way, sure, but it doesn't offer what the book provides.

For me, it was all about those wild descriptions of the mother—that lush, blonde presence, etc. It’s funny because when she’s trying to seduce him, she’s basically every man's dream, yet he finds the whole thing repulsive. For a guy who looks like a total creep, he’s actually a genius.
Sam Castillo7 Sam Castillo7 Member
31 messages
joined Mar 2009
#33 ·
Robert Richardson3 said:For me, it was all about those wild descriptions of the mother—that lush, blonde presence, etc. It’s funny because when she’s trying to seduce him, she’s basically every man's dream, yet he finds the whole thing repulsive. For a guy who looks like a total creep, he’s actually a genius.

😂
Or when they’re forced to share a bed.🤣 He’d much rather just crawl into little Lo's bed.
The whole book is essentially one beautifully crafted, highly sophisticated perversion.👍
But hey, we're talking about the movie, not the book.😁
Joseph Lee3 Joseph Lee3 Active Member
113 messages
joined May 2005
#34 ·
Books offer a playground for the imagination that cinema just can't touch. A movie hands you a finished, rigid image—it’s either what you pictured or it isn't. While a film dictates its own vision, a book acts more like an invitation, provoking and inspiring you to build the world yourself. That's where the real creative freedom lives.

It actually just clicked for me regarding those scenes Sam Castillo7 was talking about, specifically when Humbert is forced to stay with old Haze's woman. Apparently, Kubrick went incredibly literal with one of those moments, which sent the censors of that era into a complete tailspin. In the final cut, that entire sequence was stripped down to almost nothing, completely losing its original weight and purpose. Honestly, the scissors had to be working overtime throughout the whole production... I think one of my biggest cinematic regrets will always be that I'll never get to see the version of Lolita that Kubrick truly intended to show us. 😢
Kate Torres Kate Torres Member
45 messages
joined Jun 2008
#35 ·
Maybe then it would have been satire on par with Strange's. Such a shame 😢
Tyler Garcia2 Tyler Garcia2 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Mar 2008
#36 ·
I’m one of those rare people who actually preferred Lyne's Lolita over Kubrick's. And I usually can't stand remakes.
rapidbadger38 rapidbadger38 Newcomer
1 message
joined Mar 2009
#37 ·
Just finished watching Kubrick's film...

In my view, both adaptations really just boil down to a matter of perspective—specifically, how the director approaches the subject matter... Kubrick's film serves as a scathing condemnation of pedophilia and the society that enables it (Humbert is portrayed as something almost monstrous), whereas Lyne's version actually focuses on a romantic connection where both parties entered into it consciously. Of course, Lyne doesn't condone pedophilia, he just doesn't even bother to address it at all.

And yes—I agree that you can't compare a movie to a book, but I have to say that neither film even comes close to the novel... not in terms of plot, nor tone, nor atmosphere... they’re only "good" if you view them as entirely standalone works. There is a mountain of material in the book that both directors left out, things that could have been utilized perfectly to flesh out the story... and as for Nabokov's own stance on the issue he's writing about... well, I'd say he sits somewhere in the middle—if nothing else, he avoids taking extreme positions.

By the way, the absolute highlight of Kubrick's Lolita is that scene where Humbert tries to talk to Lolita about their issues, explaining why he's jealous and how Beardsley is depressing him and all that, while she's barely listening and just blowing bubbles, and then he snaps and yells: Stop doing that!, which just completely stresses her out... honestly, pure genius!👍
wiredbison82 wiredbison82 Active Member
72 messages
joined Mar 2009
#38 ·
It’s a sad truth, but having a director with zero authorial vision—someone like Lyne—was actually a luckier, better choice for adapting Lolita than if we had been handed the genius of Kubrick...
shadowhawk31 shadowhawk31 Member
45 messages
joined Jan 2019
#39 ·
A Thousand Faces of Lolita – Sex and Art on the Covers of Nabokov’s Novels

A new book just dropped here in New York City titled *Lolita — The Story of a Cover Girl: Vladimir Nabokov’s Novel in Art and Design*. It’s a fascinating deep dive where 80 different designers weigh in on what they think the "perfect" Lolita cover should actually look like. The editor behind this collection, Nabokov scholar George Levings, has spent his time dissecting half a century of the book's visual history and how it's been represented over the years.

Now, let's be honest—Nabokov was incredibly picky about visual art. What did he actually care about when it came to an image or a film?
He was a student of the brilliant Dobuzinski, though—let's face it—he wasn't exactly the most diligent pupil. And he absolutely loathed abstract art. He once famously compared Salvador Dalí to a twin version of Norman Rockwell who had been kidnapped by Gypsies during childhood. Later in life, he actually developed a soft spot for comic books. When it came to movies, he leaned toward comedies, and in private conversations, he didn't hold back his disdain for the *Lolita Stanley Kubrick* adaptation. He described the film as being shot through the "eyes of a passenger lying in the back of an ambulance." That said, he viewed the marketing gimmicks—you know, those provocative drawings of young girls meant to grab attention—as an inevitable evil necessary to drive book sales. And honestly, when it came to literary marketing, nobody could touch Nabokov.
But what did he think about people trying to "visualize" his prose? Didn't he feel that a *Lolita* cover risked reducing his entire brilliant novel down to one single theme: sex?
Nabokov was strictly against putting young ladies on covers. However, he did show a certain amount of leniency toward nymphets. He actually found the French Penguin Random House paperback edition quite amusing—on the front, you see a girl with light brown pigtails, but on the back, you see the back of her head, her part, and those two pigtails. It’s almost as if the text of the novel is tucked right inside the protagonist's head.
So, what have illustrators done to emphasize that we're talking about childhood sexuality specifically, rather than just general adult themes?

In the US alone, *Lolita* moves an average of 50,000 copies every year. Let's be real: the novel is going to pull readers in regardless of whatever image is slapped on the jacket. Because of that, many artists use subtle nods to childhood sexuality—think crushed candy or lipstick—before falling back on more conventional tropes. A standout example can be found in the illustrations for Nabokov's work in *Playboy*. Back in the '60s, the editors commissioned Robert Parker and Roland Ginzel to create illustrations for translations of *Despair and Harassment*, as well as snippets from the novel *Ada*. Of course, Nabokov had some opinions on these too. In one telegram, he basically lectured the artist for an unrealistic depiction of *Ada*'s bust, telling him to go study an anatomy textbook. He even described a depiction of two lovers passionately kissing in the night as "two disgusting frogs."
There was also this interesting situation involving a piece by the famous designer John Gall, commissioned by the prestigious Random House. Originally, Gall went for a close-up of female lips positioned vertically on the *Lolita* cover, creating a heavy sense of ambiguity that looked like both a mouth and genitalia at the same time. The reaction was totally split; one editor flew into a rage, while another loved it so much he asked the artist for a copy so he could frame it. In the end, the book was published with those same lips, but rotated horizontally.
What do you guys think about the Russian covers?

In most cases, those covers are secondary works that reuse existing imagery: classic paintings, attractive nymphets, or fragments of advertising posters. There's also a specific category of Russian covers that are just simple clips from Hollywood films. For instance, toward the end of the last century, when the second film adaptation of Nabokov's novel (the Adrian Lyne version) was huge, at least six Russian editions popped up featuring the faces of actors Jeremy Irons and Dominique Swain. By the way, Lyne's film didn't really make it in America because it was released right around the time the US Congress passed laws to prevent child pornography, which spooked the distributors. But in Yeltsin's Russia? The distributors weren't worried about anything.

The way American publishers have been treating *Lolita* lately really brings to mind something Sergei Dovlatov once said—he basically dismissed Nabokov’s heroine as just your "typical Russian girl." Seriously, they’ve been depicting her as some innocent kid in a sailor suit set against a backdrop of birch trees. And then there are the truly bizarre choices: take that 1997 edition from their vintage romance series, for instance. It uses this striking profile of a young woman—an old clip from a mid-century poster used to hawk men's collars. On the cover, you only see a cropped, out-of-context female head, but in the original work, Joseph Leyendecker actually focused on the man standing behind her. See, the artist was gay, which adds a whole other layer of subtext they completely missed.
And if we're talking about terrible covers, we can't ignore that one where they took a painting by Gustav Klimt, cropped it at the knees, and slapped an ExxonMobil logo right between her thighs. I mean, come on. You couldn't imagine a major Western publishing house putting a photo of an exposed underage girl on a back cover like that Moscow-based outfit Tf-Progress did. This isn't some stylized drawing or artistic interpretation; it's a contemporary photograph of an actual naked minor, which shifts the entire perception of the novel into a completely different, much darker register.
Look, a good book cover should be a collaborative effort—it needs to be a striking, original interpretation of the text. But the more complex the novel, the harder it is for an artist working within such tight constraints to capture the core idea while still making a meaningful artistic statement. Of course, you also have to satisfy the publisher and the consumer in this cutthroat market. But *Lolita* is complicated because it forces us to take a stand regarding the characters. We have to fight through the sheer aesthetic beauty of the prose to navigate this ethical labyrinth—who are we supposed to sympathize with? Lolita or Humbert? Who seduced whom first? And how are we even meant to process that decaying, gritty landscape of 1950s Puritanical America?

http://hr.rbth.com/arts/2013/08/25/t...ana_21639.html

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