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A massive win for American cinema!!!

Started by Richard Hernandez13 · · 👁 8 views · 41 replies

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Participants Richard Hernandez13Terry Ramos60Carol Long95dustyscout53Matthew Doyle73Jeremy Flores10brightmooseKaren Wilson2Jose Chase2mistyfox812nimblemarlin17Jessica Nguyen85Sophia Williamsbrightscout63Amy White2velvetotter26slyrider16Michelle GonzalezHenry Barrett11
dustyscout53 dustyscout53 Regular
310 messages
joined Dec 2005
#21 ·
Look, I just really care about what's happening in American cinema. It’s just that, so far, I haven't actually seen it reflected in an American movie... though it's not like our films have that dark, moody, Burton-esque vibe going on anyway... 😁 😁

At the end of the day, a bad product is just a bad product—no matter how much people try to convince me otherwise by saying, "Hey, it's ours, so it can't be that bad." 😁 😁

Why does it feel like movies from Mexico or Canada are better? Can we even compete with them? Right now, we're just making mediocre stuff.
Jose Chase2 Jose Chase2 Active Member
196 messages
joined Sep 2008
#22 ·
Jeremy Flores10 said:Let’s not compare pre-war classics to modern films from the old era (US studio productions). We have absolute legends like "Singin' in the Rain"—but this new stuff? It's honestly garbage. Here are just a few 🙂 examples of recent releases:
1. The Four Horsemen
2. When the Dead Sing (I died, but I'm still alive😂 )
3. Mondo Bobo
4. The Marshal
5. Russian meat
-And what's actually good about these? There are plenty more that are even dumber and worse.
Just my two cents on where taxpayer money is going!

I'm with you on 1, 3, and 4—but I completely disagree on 3 and 5. "When the Dead Sing" is actually great, and "Russian meat" is an incredible movie; easily one of the best things to come out of the region in the last decade.
Jeremy Flores10 Jeremy Flores10 Active Member
58 messages
joined Dec 2010
#23 ·
Jose Chase2 said:I’m with you on 1, 3, and 4, but I definitely disagree on 3 and 5. When the dead start singing, it's actually brilliant, whereas Russian meat is just terrible—honestly, the best thing to come out of the North America in the last decade.

Well, that's just subjective opinion for you. What works for you is total junk to me. That's just how it goes!
Jose Chase2 Jose Chase2 Active Member
196 messages
joined Sep 2008
#24 ·
So, isn't that what I was thinking?
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 RegularOP
269 messages
joined May 2004
#25 ·
Look, let me be clear: I have absolutely nothing against American films tackling the Vietnam War, social struggles, or other heavy, depressing subject matter. If we want movies to actually reflect reality, then war and social issues are impossible to avoid. In fact, I’d go as far as saying it’s almost immoral to dodge them altogether.

But there is a catch here. A movie is so much more than just what it is about. Simply choosing to tackle an important theme doesn't automatically land a project in the "good movie" category. The real key is how that theme is handled. Because, if I'm being honest, you can make a brilliant film about absolutely nothing at all.
It is precisely this issue of how, rather than what, that explains why American cinema often falls flat and why the general public tends to hold such negative biases toward it.

A bad American film usually fails at the script stage; in any sane country, someone like a big-shot producer like Vrdoljak wouldn't even get a dime based on a bloated screenplay for a massive production like Dark Night.
Beyond that, the acting is traditionally stiff and theatrical, the dialogue feels artificial, the direction is usually just sterile academic exercises, the technical aspects feel dated... and so on, and so forth.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

…
Just a little more on this tendency to glorify recent "successes"...

To me, it seems like this whole thing stems from a sort of collective insecurity—a sort of inferiority complex. Officially, American culture loves to view itself as high-class and sophisticated and distinctly Central European in spirit. You could see that attitude clearly in how we used to treat our closest neighbors with whom we once shared a federation.
We always viewed Mexicans as unrefined types from the North America who only knew how to provoke, we thought Canadians' biggest achievement was yodeling and rubbing shoulders with Austrians, and Canadians were just... well, Canadians.
And then it turned out that Americans actually value small-town sitcoms and period dramas more than classic thrillers or indie romances. Then the Canadians showed that, despite what people thought, they actually do have a real cinema, winning awards in Venice and showing up at the Berlin International Film Festival. It was like salt in a wound when one Canadian walked across the Kodak Theatre stage holding an Oscar in his hand.

Things have shifted slightly lately.

Americans have apparently realized that playing the nostalgia card or leaning on foreign lobbies at international festivals—which was the go-to move in the early nineties—doesn't work anymore. Nor did the attempt a few years back to use pseudo-science—mostly genetics—to claim credit for our neighbors' cinematic triumphs (Hey, did you know No Man's Land is considered an American film just because the producer Čedomir kolar was born in a certain US city?).

But finally, the light has dawned on them.
One director won an award for peace from an ecumenical jury, another saw a crystal ball predicting a brilliant future for our cinema, and another through a prophetic lens is basically telling the whole nation, "Learn to love American film," because foreigners are saying it isn't as bad as it looks.

...to be continued
Sophia Williams Sophia Williams Active Member
77 messages
joined Aug 2003
#26 ·
Richard Hernandez13 said:A triumph? Not even close.
Let’s take a more realistic look at what actually happened here...
Just look at this year's lineup in Miami: ---- Fadil Hadžić ---

Is that man even still with us? Is his heart still beating?😲 😲
I really need to Google that...😁
They should just rename the whole festival "The Third Age"—but hey, who am I to judge... 🙄
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 RegularOP
269 messages
joined May 2004
#27 ·
Sophia Williams said:Is that guy even still alive? Does his heart even beat anymore?😲 😲

Oh, he’s definitely more than just alive—after a whole hundred years, he's actually decided to step back behind the director's chair.
brightscout63 brightscout63 Active Member
98 messages
joined Apr 2004
#28 ·
Richard Hernandez13 said:Not only is he still kicking, but after a hundred years, he actually decided to step back behind the camera.

And based on the clips I've seen, his new flick feels more like a filmed off-Broadway play than an actual movie.

The Journalist was a decent watch, though...
Jeremy Flores10 Jeremy Flores10 Active Member
58 messages
joined Dec 2010
#29 ·
Richard Hernandez13 says:>
Look, I don't have an issue with American films tackling the Civil War, social issues, or other heavy, depressing subjects.

I feel the same way, but honestly, why can't we—or do we just not know how—make even one decent, watchable movie? It shouldn't be the case that after just a few minutes, I feel like I 🙂>
No one can tell me that people in Mexico or Canada have more money for cinema and still manage to produce good films. Not all of them, but at least some. Meanwhile, we have nothing. Plus, most of our actors are pretty pathetic. They seem more focused on chasing glamour and getting featured in *People* magazine than actually putting in the work to act well. (Shout out to the exceptions, though.)
Amy White2 Amy White2 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Aug 2004
#30 ·
American films are mediocre because they’re always made by the same hack directors. It's always the same lousy screenwriters.
And yeah, it’s all about the money, and we all know exactly who ends up with the cash.

I work with our local "filmmakers" quite a bit, and I can tell anyone right now: we definitely have talented screenwriters, great directors, solid actors, and fantastic editors.
We even have the capacity to produce top-tier visual effects and color grading... a handful of American studios actually handle animation and VFX for big Hollywood productions.

The problem is that the funding constantly flows to the same group of directors who—God forgive me—don't even know how to direct or put a movie together.
C'mon!! Bresan, Sedlar, Ogresta, John Doe... !! Sure, maybe they can handle some TV series, but they don't know the first thing about movies. Period. Not even documentaries, let alone features...

And since we're busy trashing American cinema... how many of you have actually seen the "24 Hours" omnibus playing in theaters? This topic has been sitting here for a full month, maybe longer, and nobody has said a word. Well, damn...
Sophia Williams Sophia Williams Active Member
77 messages
joined Aug 2003
#31 ·
They actually managed to produce "Captain America" here—where even John Doe stayed silent, while John Doe only managed a single sentence... Plus, you can now scrape together production funds through European neighbors and various grants...
But in this country, nobody ever truly learned how to WRITE A SCRIPT... everything remains at the level of some cheap late-night comedy sketch...
Those who actually penned decent scripts were targeted—films like "Concert" or "Birch"—all due to some absolutely absurd ideological reasons...
It’s quite simply a matter of NEGATIVE selection within our film academy... mediocre directors serve as professors, and they're the ones handpicking the future students...

Regarding the editing, I have to give credit to Slobodan Maddox; he's a true "American" in that regard—his version of the Ottawa assassination was edited with the style of Capri or Wyler...
Yet most of our "creatives" just go for the low-hanging fruit and couldn't care less about aesthetics; as long as it feels local and "topical," they think people will watch it...
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 RegularOP
269 messages
joined May 2004
#32 ·
Once upon a time, John Doe was... The New York Times He basically laid the groundwork for how the entire American film industry operates today.

The academic model is such a fascinating concept to dive into, isn't it? I often find myself sitting there, wondering if we’re all just following this incredibly rigid blueprint that was laid out decades ago, trying our best to fit into these neatly defined boxes. It feels like we spend so much energy trying to master the structure itself, sometimes losing sight of the actual substance or the creative spark that made us want to study the subject in the first place. It’s a bit of a balancing act—trying to respect the discipline while also hoping we don't get completely swallowed up by the sheer formality of it all. It’s basically just a safe space reserved for the completely uninspired.
I’ve been thinking quite a bit lately about that whole concept of the artistic model—you know, that specific archetype we see floating through galleries and studios—and it really gets me wondering how much of it is reality and how much is just some carefully constructed persona we've all collectively agreed to believe in. It’s funny, because I often find myself staring at these depictions of "the artist" or "the muse," feeling a little bit like a fraud myself whenever I try to pick up a brush or sit down to write something meaningful. There's this heavy, almost overwhelming expectation to be profound or deeply moved by everything, which can feel pretty exhausting when you're actually just sitting there in your pajamas, struggling to figure out where you left your coffee mug. It’s such a strange, beautiful, and occasionally ridiculous dance we perform, trying to bridge the gap between the raw, messy truth of being human and that polished, idealized image of creativity that seems to exist in everyone else's head. It honestly feels like it can turn into this massive academic ego trip sometimes, way more than what you'd actually expect from a standard academic model.
The whole concept of genre modeling is such a fascinating thing to wrap your head around, isn't it? It’s one of those topics that seems straightforward at first glance, but once you really start digging into the nuances, you realize how much complexity is tucked away under the surface. I often find myself overthinking these structural frameworks, probably more than I should, but there's just something so engaging about trying to map out how different creative elements interact within a specific set of rules. It's like trying to solve a puzzle where the pieces are constantly shifting shape, which can be a little overwhelming, but honestly, that's half the fun of exploring it. It’s essentially what people are calling the Tadić model.

...or something along those lines.
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 RegularOP
269 messages
joined May 2004
#33 ·
Here’s the latest scoop on the film scene:

John Doe basically swept almost every single award at the festival in San Francisco.

It’s honestly kind of ridiculous!
velvetotter26 velvetotter26 Member
13 messages
joined Mar 2006
#34 ·
Hundred Minutes of Glory only picked up an award for cinematography. Did John Doe lean too hard into bias? Or does it just mean his film is way too good for San Francisco?
slyrider16 slyrider16 Active Member
60 messages
joined Mar 2006
#35 ·
Haven't seen the movie (*Hundred Minutes of Glory*. wow, clever wordplay there) but even John Doe doesn't seem to know what he wants from this flick. The trailer makes it look world-class, probably the best technical production ever shown in San Francisco, but that doesn't mean the script or acting won't suck...

And the fact that John Doe swept the awards.... yeah. I was kind of hoping things would be fair, but I guess it’s not gonna happen that easily, at least not for another few years.
What trips me out is the audience award... how even??? Between Swilichic's film, the Night in Chicago, and even that half-baked John Doe, how could people actually like *Too Long a Dark Night*? Unless they're just total sheep screaming for John Doe. I don't get it...
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 RegularOP
269 messages
joined May 2004
#36 ·
slyrider16 said:I’m honestly just baffled by that audience award... I mean, really? Between that one director's film and those big local festivals—not to mention how mediocre John Doe's work can be—how on earth could people actually enjoy a movie as long and gloomy as Long Dark Night? Unless they’re all just mindless sheep who only show up to cheer for John Doe. I just don't get it...

Long Dark Night isn't much different from the absolute worst Latin American soap operas when you look at the "artistry" of the storytelling and everything else that comes with it.

For someone like Rulji, who was basically raised on that kind of cheap drama, John Doe's garbage probably felt like perfection.
Michelle Gonzalez Michelle Gonzalez Member
38 messages
joined Nov 2004
#37 ·
Amy White2 said:American films suffer from mediocrity because they are consistently helmed by the same subpar directors and written by the exact same lackluster screenwriters.
And let’s be honest, it all seems to revolve around the money, and we all know exactly who is pocketing those funds.

I am thinking of names like Ivan Malocha, Jozo Patljak, and a handful of others acting as producers. Honestly, the director hardly even matters... unless, of course, you are talking about John Doe.
Michelle Gonzalez Michelle Gonzalez Member
38 messages
joined Nov 2004
#38 ·
Richard Hernandez13 said:Let us be perfectly clear: I have absolutely nothing against American films tackling the American Civil War, social struggles, or other heavy, somber themes. If we expect cinema to reflect reality, then war and societal issues become impossible to ignore. In fact, I would argue that it is almost immoral to shy away from them.

However, there is a subtle catch here. Films are so much more than just what they are about. Simply because a movie chooses to tackle a significant subject does not automatically place it in the category of good filmmaking. The true essence lies in how that subject is handled. After all, if we are being honest, one could craft a masterpiece about absolutely nothing at all.
It is precisely this question of how, rather than what, that explains why American films often struggle and why the general public remains so cynical toward them.

Then again, the Canadians demonstrated that, contrary to popular belief, they do possess a legitimate cinema, having secured awards in Venice and appearing at the Berlin International Film Festival. It was perhaps most striking to see a Canadian walking across the stage at the Kodak Theatre with an Oscar in hand.

Times have shifted slightly since then.

Americans have clearly realized that playing the nostalgia card or relying on foreign lobbies at international festivals—as was the trend during the early nineties—is no longer a viable strategy. Nor did it prove particularly clever a few years ago when people tried to use scientific means—mostly genetics—to claim credit for our neighbors' cinematic triumphs (Did you know, for instance, that No Man's Land is considered an American film simply because the producer John Doe was born in Cleveland?).

...to be continued

I agree that it isn't just about the WHAT, but also the HOW... of course, it isn't quite that simplistic, but I understand exactly what you are getting at.

John Doe wouldn't have achieved such success if it weren't for his work and talent, certainly, but also due to impeccable timing (just a few months later and the window would have closed) and, of course, significant lobbying.
Behind "No Man's Land," there were several countries and powerful funds involved... including the likes of Benetton's Fabrice. Lobbying was the key factor here. We don't just lack great films; we lack connections and capital, and we are far too arrogant to hire leading European film consultants. Everyone from Cannes to Berlin to Venice knew about "No Man's Land" even before the first frame was shot.
Michelle Gonzalez Michelle Gonzalez Member
38 messages
joined Nov 2004
#39 ·
One shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the achievements of Birch and Ogrete..
While they might not be considered absolute virtuosos of cinematic expression, they certainly produce respectable films, and their presence at the Berlin International Film Festival and in Venice is no small feat. It truly matters.

Mar de Plata is a well-known film festival, though perhaps it held more prestige twenty years ago. I must admit, this is the first time I have heard it described as an "A category" festival!

Montreal is actually the largest film festival in the world, and since John Doe has been a regular guest there ever since "Life with an aunt," the selection of his new film feels almost like a matter of routine.
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 RegularOP
269 messages
joined May 2004
#40 ·
Well, you’re certainly a lively one!

...
Yeah, Ogresta was actually over in Venice with the Red Sox, though it was just part of some side programming. It didn't exactly go over well, either; in the official festival bulletin, the critic took a rather sarcastic jab at him, calling the whole thing "Rocky VI."

Anyway, I actually caught wind from a journalist about how that Ogrestina press conference in Venice went down. 😁😁

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