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Organ donation after death: thoughts and experiences?

Started by Gary Sanchez · · 👁 38 views · 567 replies

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Participants Gary Sanchezstormylynx14darkbison81Casey Palmer5Mark Watson12silentpanther15Bradley Fisher20mellowbadger8jadesailor14James Cruz6analogmaker7Aplacidjackal97Anthony Reyes5Angela HillAdam Rogers2cosmicridge5boldmason6Roger Cox10Eric Garcia90Jamie Clark74Drew Young10Bradley Bailey8Joseph Jones85 …
Grace Richardson24 Grace Richardson24 Member
44 messages
joined Jan 2022
#541 ·
shadownomad43 said:What would I tell her?
If I were Dr. House, I’d probably just tell her: "Look, honey, your clock has run out."
But since I'm clearly not Dr. House, I’d go with something a bit more human: "Listen, friend, life can be incredibly cruel. Forget about the radiation, skip the chemo, and honestly, screw the whole pharmaceutical industry. Just hold your husband tight, grab your kids by the hands, and soak up every single second left with them..."

As for you, I’ll offer this: there is a curious little psychological quirk tucked away in our brains. It seems that once we finally stop obsessively agonizing over the things that weigh us down, the problem somehow begins to resolve itself.
The power of self-suggestion really does work wonders.

Well, look at that—we finally made it!
Eleven corrective surgeries down—and now we're just waiting on number twelve.
So, when I think about corrective surgery—you know, the real "fixing" kind—I’m talking about things like a breast lift, straightening bowed legs, or even fixing those prominent ears...

So—it's perfectly fine to boost someone's self-esteem through butt and breast implants, but the moment a woman fights for her own life, she’s suddenly labeled "selfish"?! WTF?

Since when does a dying patient start straightening their ears every single time? — honestly, I have to wonder!

Maybe we could also drop some psychological tips regarding autosuggestion—you know, that whole mindset shift thing—and such... 🤣
Honestly—no matter how much people try to hide behind their usernames here (which, by the way, are quite interesting)—it’s pretty obvious that there’s a lot of frustration brewing. It seems like many are dealing with some real issues, even if they aren't quite ready to admit it yet. 😉
melloworca6 melloworca6 Regular
551 messages
joined May 2010
#542 ·
shadownomad43 said:What would I tell her?
If I were Dr. House, I’d probably just tell her: "Look, honey, your clock has run out."
But since I'm clearly not Dr. House, I’d go with something a bit more human: "Listen, friend, life can be incredibly cruel. Forget about the radiation, skip the chemo, and honestly, screw the whole pharmaceutical industry. Just hold your husband tight, grab your kids by the hands, and soak up every single second left with them..."

As for you, I’ll offer this: there is a curious little psychological quirk tucked away in our brains. It seems that once we finally stop obsessively agonizing over the things that weigh us down, the problem somehow begins to resolve itself.
The power of self-suggestion really does work wonders.

So, you'd basically tell a mother of two to just give up because they'll find a new mom once she's gone? 😬

Aside from being against organ donation, chemo, and radiation, what else are you against? Do you skip antibiotics for a bacterial infection and just let nature take its course? Because that sounds like the advice you're giving everyone else. 😁
I'm guessing after all those major surgeries, you didn't turn down the antibiotics. If I were a doctor, I certainly wouldn't operate on someone who refuses the necessary meds to prevent life-threatening complications post-op.

Grace Richardson24 mentioned she used surgery to manage pain, and in another thread, she mentions spine issues—so I don't think we're talking about minor cosmetic tweaks here. She even had an ulcer surgically treated. Maybe all those procedures were corrective, who knows. 😁
Grace Richardson24 Grace Richardson24 Member
44 messages
joined Jan 2022
#543 ·
I have another suspicion—that there’s been a bit of intentional trolling going on here, given how sensitive people tend to get about these topics, making it all too easy to bait someone. 🕺

We all enjoy a little mischief now and then, but there are specific forums for that kind of thing; seeing it happen here is just distasteful.
Patrick Young2 Patrick Young2 Member
31 messages
joined Jan 2019
#544 ·
Like I said 🧐
😉
shadownomad43 shadownomad43 Member
35 messages
joined Apr 2016
#545 ·
Grace Richardson24 said:I have another suspicion—that there’s been a bit of intentional trolling going on here, given how sensitive people tend to get about these topics, making it all too easy to bait someone. 🕺

We all enjoy a little mischief now and then, but there are specific forums for that kind of thing; seeing it happen here is just distasteful.

It’s truly a pleasure...
Let’s look at it this way...
I’m addressing you and everyone else all at once here, simply because I have no interest in going back and forth through every single individual comment like some kind of pedantic nitpicker.

To be quite specific regarding AML—acute myeloid leukemia—I actually had a case within my immediate family, so I have firsthand experience with what a sick person goes through, as well as the emotional toll it takes on their closest relatives. I am choosing to speak about this in the past tense, intentionally. I believe it’s important to be clear enough for anyone listening to truly grasp the gravity of the situation.

Furthermore, if anyone is genuinely curious about the specific ailments I’ve dealt with in the past or what I'm currently struggling through, feel free to dig through the forum archives. There should be plenty of my old posts floating around that cover those details quite thoroughly.

I only stepped into this thread for one reason: to weigh in on the poll regarding whether we are for or against. Since I find myself firmly on the opposing side, I’ve already laid out my position in a previous post—mostly because that very first entry in the survey had the nerve to label those of us who disagree as selfish. Period.

Look, I have absolutely no interest in being labeled a troll, nor do I have any desire to spend my energy bickering with anyone else here. So, I’ll just leave it at this: I wish you all nothing but the best—may you live long, stay sharp, and above all, enjoy nothing but good health.

So long for now.
nimblelynx63 nimblelynx63 Member
16 messages
joined Apr 2020
#546 ·
Chris Carter10 said:By the way, if anyone here who wrote legal articles on this topic is reading, I know a thing or two about this. Legally speaking, a donor card does make you a donor. For everyone, if the card isn't on file, they check the registry to see if they're listed as donors or if they've opted out. That's how they proceed. If there's no record either way, they ask the family, even though they aren't legally forced to.🥱🥱

I agree with you—shadownomad43 is definitely spinning this to suit her own narrative. Twelve corrective surgeries—unless we're talking cosmetic stuff—hardly qualifies as "not extending your life." You didn't just say you're against donation; you said you're against deviating from your "natural life path." Well, if you're so against it, why go under the knife for surgeries meant to keep you going? 🤔

Clearly, you were "writing articles on this topic" or maybe just "sleeping through class"—no wonder you're yawning.
There isn't even a donor registry in America.
If you want to opt out of being an organ donor, you just get a code from your family doctor. They send that info straight to the Department, and that’s how they keep track of everyone who says "no thanks" to being a donor. That's basically how the registry works—it's specifically for those who DON'T want to be donors.
A donor card carries absolutely zero legal weight here in the States. Period.
Grace Richardson24 Grace Richardson24 Member
44 messages
joined Jan 2022
#547 ·
shadownomad43 said:It’s truly a pleasure...
Let’s look at it this way...
I’m addressing you and everyone else all at once here, simply because I have no interest in going back and forth through every single individual comment like some kind of pedantic nitpicker.

To be quite specific regarding AML—acute myeloid leukemia—I actually had a case within my immediate family, so I have firsthand experience with what a sick person goes through, as well as the emotional toll it takes on their closest relatives. I am choosing to speak about this in the past tense, intentionally. I believe it’s important to be clear enough for anyone listening to truly grasp the gravity of the situation.

Furthermore, if anyone is genuinely curious about the specific ailments I’ve dealt with in the past or what I'm currently struggling through, feel free to dig through the forum archives. There should be plenty of my old posts floating around that cover those details quite thoroughly.

I only stepped into this thread for one reason: to weigh in on the poll regarding whether we are for or against. Since I find myself firmly on the opposing side, I’ve already laid out my position in a previous post—mostly because that very first entry in the survey had the nerve to label those of us who disagree as selfish. Period.

Look, I have absolutely no interest in being labeled a troll, nor do I have any desire to spend my energy bickering with anyone else here. So, I’ll just leave it at this: I wish you all nothing but the best—may you live long, stay sharp, and above all, enjoy nothing but good health.

So long for now.

You can save that kind of talk for your family back home—talking to strangers on an online forum with "sweetie, dear" just isn't part of the etiquette, and it never will be.

I am certainly not your child—in fact, I don't even have parents anymore, as they passed away years ago—and since I'm well into my adult years, I won't sit here and let someone patronize me like I'm some little kid.

Shame on you!👎
electrictiger86 electrictiger86 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jun 2018
#548 ·
I can't quite remember where I stumbled upon this, but I read somewhere a few years back that the family actually has to foot the bill for the organ transport. So, basically, if you want to be a donor, you have to pay up.
Nicole James Nicole James Regular
313 messages
joined Dec 2010
#549 ·
electrictiger86 said:I can't quite remember where I stumbled upon this, but I read somewhere a few years back that the family actually has to foot the bill for the organ transport. So, basically, if you want to be a donor, you have to pay up.

That only applies if you're donating through the USPS. If the family decides to just go pick up the organ themselves, then it’s free.
velvetmoose9 velvetmoose9 Active Member
163 messages
joined Apr 2020
#550 ·
electrictiger86 said:I can't quite remember where I stumbled upon this, but I read somewhere a few years back that the family actually has to foot the bill for the organ transport. So, basically, if you want to be a donor, you have to pay up.

Quoting Zdenko Kovač: Pure stupidity! ☕
Jeffrey Chase442 Jeffrey Chase442 Active Member
61 messages
joined Oct 2020
#551 ·
I’ve got my donor card, but honestly, what a joke... because here in the States, the laws aren't even properly set up yet, so I was told that regardless of what's on my card, if I pass away, they'd still go out and hunt down some family member to ask for permission anyway. It feels so stupid, because the whole point of having the card is that I made the call about my own organs, not that anyone else gets to step in and decide for me...
Nicole James Nicole James Regular
313 messages
joined Dec 2010
#552 ·
Jeffrey Chase442 said:I’ve got my donor card, but honestly, what a joke... because here in the States, the laws aren't even properly set up yet, so I was told that regardless of what's on my card, if I pass away, they'd still go out and hunt down some family member to ask for permission anyway. It feels so stupid, because the whole point of having the card is that I made the call about my own organs, not that anyone else gets to step in and decide for me...

Well, thank you for having a donor card in the first place, 🙂

I agree with you—if someone explicitly states that they want to donate their organs, that choice should be respected just as much as any other part of a person's final will.
velvetmoose9 velvetmoose9 Active Member
163 messages
joined Apr 2020
#553 ·
Jeffrey Chase442 said:I’ve got my donor card, but honestly, what a joke... because here in the States, the laws aren't even properly set up yet, so I was told that regardless of what's on my card, if I pass away, they'd still go out and hunt down some family member to ask for permission anyway. It feels so stupid, because the whole point of having the card is that I made the call about my own organs, not that anyone else gets to step in and decide for me...

You're spot on, totally 👍

Yeah, the standard practice here in America is basically to check in with whatever family or relatives are around first.
Casey Cook10 Casey Cook10 Active Member
77 messages
joined May 2024
#554 ·
I guess they just do all this strictly to make sure there's zero chance of anyone being manipulated, you know, so we don't end up seeing those nasty headlines saying "they took organs from my living relative..."
The American transplant program has actually been quite successful, partly because they maintain such an honest approach, even though the law doesn't even force them to be that transparent.
And honestly, there are always certain individuals or groups who, for religious reasons or whatever else, just don't want to donate organs, and I think it's important that we respect the rights of their loved ones.
Nicole James Nicole James Regular
313 messages
joined Dec 2010
#555 ·
Casey Cook10 said:I guess they just do all this strictly to make sure there's zero chance of anyone being manipulated, you know, so we don't end up seeing those nasty headlines saying "they took organs from my living relative..."
The American transplant program has actually been quite successful, partly because they maintain such an honest approach, even though the law doesn't even force them to be that transparent.
And honestly, there are always certain individuals or groups who, for religious reasons or whatever else, just don't want to donate organs, and I think it's important that we respect the rights of their loved ones.

Kuzim, you're right—it makes sense. If they didn't handle it this carefully, the media panic would likely result in fewer people willing to donate than the actual number of organs available for use. But then again—and I say this somewhat jokingly—I feel like I might just rise from the grave to whack someone with an urn if anyone decided against my will that my organs should simply go to waste.

BTW, I’m actually currently on the waiting list for a new heart, so once more 🙂 to all the donors out there.
Joshua Ortiz2 Joshua Ortiz2 Member
19 messages
joined Jan 2017
#556 ·
I've been chewing on this for a bit...
I don't actually have an official donor card yet, but I'm planning to sit down with my family and hash it all out because if some freak accident ever happens, I want them to know exactly where I stand.
Jeffrey Wilson4 Jeffrey Wilson4 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jun 2010
#557 ·
Let’s be real for a second—transplant medicine is basically just legalized killing to serve someone else's needs. Most people don't wrap their heads around the fact that organs are actually harvested while the person is still technically alive, even if they've been declared "brain dead" for legal reasons. Sure, there’s a whole battery of tests used to confirm this supposed "brain death," but it isn't the finality everyone thinks it is. Once actual death happens, those organs become useless pretty fast. I mean, come on—patients labeled as brain dead still have pulses, men can still get erections... you get the idea. It's weird, right?
Prof. Pihlmaer once straight up said: "If we actually gave the public the full story, we wouldn't be able to source organs anymore".

If you dig into German sources, you'll find a ton of critical writing about the shady side of organ donation and the whole transplant industry.
If you happen to speak German, it's definitely worth checking out this site:

https://initiative-kao.de/
Daniel Green98 Daniel Green98 Member
22 messages
joined Apr 2020
#558 ·
Jeffrey Wilson4 said:Let’s be real for a second—transplant medicine is basically just legalized killing to serve someone else's needs. Most people don't wrap their heads around the fact that organs are actually harvested while the person is still technically alive, even if they've been declared "brain dead" for legal reasons. Sure, there’s a whole battery of tests used to confirm this supposed "brain death," but it isn't the finality everyone thinks it is. Once actual death happens, those organs become useless pretty fast. I mean, come on—patients labeled as brain dead still have pulses, men can still get erections... you get the idea. It's weird, right?
Prof. Pihlmaer once straight up said: "If we actually gave the public the full story, we wouldn't be able to source organs anymore".

If you dig into German sources, you'll find a ton of critical writing about the shady side of organ donation and the whole transplant industry.
If you happen to speak German, it's definitely worth checking out this site:

https://initiative-kao.de/

Give me a break. 🤦🏼‍♀️.
Yeah, right. Like they'll just snatch you off the street, shove you into a medically induced coma, and start pulling parts out...
brightgull95 brightgull95 Newcomer
7 messages
joined May 2022
#559 ·
Jeffrey Wilson4 Asks:
If you dig through German literature, you’ll find a massive amount of critical commentary regarding the darker, often overlooked side of organ donation and the entire field of transplant medicine. There's a whole world of intense scrutiny out there that people just don't talk about enough.
If you happen to be fluent in German, you really ought to take a look at this website:

I’ve been digging through this site, and frankly, my blood pressure is spiking just looking at it. This whole "Critical Enlightenment on Organ Transplantation" initiative? It feels like they're trying to reinvent the wheel while driving straight into a ditch. They’re throwing around these massive, sweeping claims about medical ethics and transparency, but when you actually peel back the layers, it feels less like a movement for change and more like a disorganized shouting match against the entire American medical establishment. They want to talk about systemic flaws in how we handle organ transplants here in the States—questioning everything from donor protocols to the way hospitals communicate with families. I get the sentiment, I really do. We all know the system isn't perfect; even a glance at how Medicare handles complex cases shows there's plenty of room for bureaucratic messiness. But there's a fine line between being a whistleblower and just being a contrarian for the sake of it. The tone of their messaging is what gets me. It’s heavy-handed. They act as if they’re the only ones with a moral compass, casting doubt on every major transplant center from New York to LA. It’s incredibly aggressive. Is it an attempt at actual reform, or just a collection of people who are angry at the status quo? Sometimes I think they’re just looking for a fight with the Department of Health and Human Services. I can see why people gravitate toward it, though. When you feel like the institutions meant to protect you are opaque or slow, a group that screams "transparency!" sounds like a hero. But you have to ask: what is the actual end goal? If the goal is to improve patient outcomes and clarify the process for grieving families, then fine. But if it's just to cast shadows of doubt without offering a concrete, workable alternative to current American medical standards, then it’s just noise. It’s loud, it’s frantic, and honestly, it’s exhausting.

The people running this organization are honestly a joke. They go through all these grand motions, pretending to be productive, but they aren't actually doing a damn thing—though, I suppose they don't really *need* to work when the money just keeps rolling in regardless. It’s all just a massive charade. They’ve even got themselves a formal board of directors, glossy printed brochures, and their own YouTube channel to maintain the illusion. None of this theater would even be possible without that constant, steady stream of funding hitting their accounts. And get this: the guy heading the whole operation is a cardiologist. Can you believe that?

Jeffrey Wilson4 said:Let’s be real for a second—transplant medicine is basically just legalized killing to serve someone else's needs. Most people don't wrap their heads around the fact that organs are actually harvested while the person is still technically alive, even if they've been declared "brain dead" for legal reasons. Sure, there’s a whole battery of tests used to confirm this supposed "brain death," but it isn't the finality everyone thinks it is. Once actual death happens, those organs become useless pretty fast. I mean, come on—patients labeled as brain dead still have pulses, men can still get erections... you get the idea. It's weird, right?
Prof. Pihlmaer once straight up said: "If we actually gave the public the full story, we wouldn't be able to source organs anymore".

If you dig into German sources, you'll find a ton of critical writing about the shady side of organ donation and the whole transplant industry.
If you happen to speak German, it's definitely worth checking out this site:

https://initiative-kao.de/

What kind of life are we even talking about when someone’s cerebrum, cerebellum, and brainstem—that vital medulla oblongata everyone calls the brainstem—are all completely non-functional? What does that existence actually look like? We’re looking at a person who hasn't maintained a single autonomous function. And let's be clear: I'm primarily talking about the loss of spontaneous breathing. Seriously, what kind of life is that?

Can you just take an organ from any random person and transplant it into anyone else, or are there actual limitations here? I mean, is it like trying to swap an engine from one car into another—where you have to worry about whether the parts actually fit or if the whole thing is going to blow up? There's gotta be some rules to this, right?

Jeffrey Wilson4 said:Let’s be real for a second—transplant medicine is basically just legalized killing to serve someone else's needs. Most people don't wrap their heads around the fact that organs are actually harvested while the person is still technically alive, even if they've been declared "brain dead" for legal reasons. Sure, there’s a whole battery of tests used to confirm this supposed "brain death," but it isn't the finality everyone thinks it is. Once actual death happens, those organs become useless pretty fast. I mean, come on—patients labeled as brain dead still have pulses, men can still get erections... you get the idea. It's weird, right?
Prof. Pihlmaer once straight up said: "If we actually gave the public the full story, we wouldn't be able to source organs anymore".

If you dig into German sources, you'll find a ton of critical writing about the shady side of organ donation and the whole transplant industry.
If you happen to speak German, it's definitely worth checking out this site:

https://initiative-kao.de/

How much life is actually left in someone who can't breathe on their own? I mean, how much "life" is there really in a person facing brain asystole?

Jeffrey Wilson4 said:Let’s be real for a second—transplant medicine is basically just legalized killing to serve someone else's needs. Most people don't wrap their heads around the fact that organs are actually harvested while the person is still technically alive, even if they've been declared "brain dead" for legal reasons. Sure, there’s a whole battery of tests used to confirm this supposed "brain death," but it isn't the finality everyone thinks it is. Once actual death happens, those organs become useless pretty fast. I mean, come on—patients labeled as brain dead still have pulses, men can still get erections... you get the idea. It's weird, right?
Prof. Pihlmaer once straight up said: "If we actually gave the public the full story, we wouldn't be able to source organs anymore".

If you dig into German sources, you'll find a ton of critical writing about the shady side of organ donation and the whole transplant industry.
If you happen to speak German, it's definitely worth checking out this site:

https://initiative-kao.de/

If we’ve actually proven that everything inside the skull—the cerebrum, the cerebellum, the brainstem—is completely dead, then the very thing that makes us human is gone. Period. If you really want to go down that road, you can stop talking about a "living organism" altogether. At that point, you're just looking at a collection of functional organs. There is a massive, fundamental difference there.

Jeffrey Wilson4 said:Let’s be real for a second—transplant medicine is basically just legalized killing to serve someone else's needs. Most people don't wrap their heads around the fact that organs are actually harvested while the person is still technically alive, even if they've been declared "brain dead" for legal reasons. Sure, there’s a whole battery of tests used to confirm this supposed "brain death," but it isn't the finality everyone thinks it is. Once actual death happens, those organs become useless pretty fast. I mean, come on—patients labeled as brain dead still have pulses, men can still get erections... you get the idea. It's weird, right?
Prof. Pihlmaer once straight up said: "If we actually gave the public the full story, we wouldn't be able to source organs anymore".

If you dig into German sources, you'll find a ton of critical writing about the shady side of organ donation and the whole transplant industry.
If you happen to speak German, it's definitely worth checking out this site:

https://initiative-kao.de/

Oh, really? Are you seriously suggesting you’ve never heard of the autonomic nervous system? Look, fine, maybe you don't need to know that, but the folks at the OPO—specifically her leadership and every doctor employed there—absolutely *should* know that certain functions aren't controlled by the brain, but by centers outside of it (like the sympathetic ganglia in the chest and abdomen). The entire digestive tract has two independent nerve systems (the Meissner and Auerbachov plexuses) that stay active regardless of whether the brain is functioning or if the person is even alive. To ignore a fact that you learn as early as your second year of med school is just plain biased.

Jeffrey Wilson4 said:Let’s be real for a second—transplant medicine is basically just legalized killing to serve someone else's needs. Most people don't wrap their heads around the fact that organs are actually harvested while the person is still technically alive, even if they've been declared "brain dead" for legal reasons. Sure, there’s a whole battery of tests used to confirm this supposed "brain death," but it isn't the finality everyone thinks it is. Once actual death happens, those organs become useless pretty fast. I mean, come on—patients labeled as brain dead still have pulses, men can still get erections... you get the idea. It's weird, right?
Prof. Pihlmaer once straight up said: "If we actually gave the public the full story, we wouldn't be able to source organs anymore".

If you dig into German sources, you'll find a ton of critical writing about the shady side of organ donation and the whole transplant industry.
If you happen to speak German, it's definitely worth checking out this site:

https://initiative-kao.de/

Is that so? So you're one of those witnesses who allegedly heard that sentence back in 1987 in Hannover?

If you're going to quote something, at least do it properly. Because on that OPO website, this is actually what it says:

Renate Greinert had asked Prof. Pichlmayr back then in Hannover:

“Why didn't you explain to us,
what it truly means to be an organ donor?”

That was his response before witnesses:

“If we educate society about organ donation,
we won't get any more organs.”

Prof. Rudolf Pichlmayr – 1987


Or, in plain English:
Renate Greinert once asked Professor Pichlmayr in Hannover:
"Why haven't you explained to us exactly what being an organ donor entails?"
His answer, in front of witnesses:
"If we were to explain the reality to society, we wouldn't receive any more organs."

Prof. Pichlmayr passed away in 1997 in Mexico. We can't exactly go ask him to verify the accuracy of this statement. Nor can we ask if the quote, assuming it's true, was ripped out of context or not. So, we can't say he definitely said it; we can only say that a certain Renate Greinert *claims* he said it. And who is this Renate, anyway? Well, look at that—she's a member of the executive board for that very same OPO initiative!
https://initiative-kao.de/kritische-...o-ev/#vorstand

Wow! So, we're dealing with a woman whose entire profession is pushing a specific agenda. Someone who is obsessed with making sure people only hear the information that suits her narrative. Someone who would coldly tell anyone waiting for a kidney transplant, "What do you care about a kidney? You have dialysis" (see link below). But oh, she won't mention the long-term risks and complications of dialysis, no, no—that doesn't interest her. She only cares about making sure her side gets heard. Hypocrite.

https://www.gesundheit-adhoc.de/tag-...ende-2019.html

"Renata Greinert: „It’s rarely actually about saving a life. According to the latest data from the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network, 77% of organ recipients are specifically waiting for a kidney. These people already have an alternative—dialysis."
Jeffrey Wilson4 Jeffrey Wilson4 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jun 2010
#560 ·
brightgull95 said:
Jeffrey Wilson4 Asks:
If you dig through German literature, you’ll find a massive amount of critical commentary regarding the darker, often overlooked side of organ donation and the entire field of transplant medicine. There's a whole world of intense scrutiny out there that people just don't talk about enough.
If you happen to be fluent in German, you really ought to take a look at this website:

I’ve been digging through this site, and frankly, my blood pressure is spiking just looking at it. This whole "Critical Enlightenment on Organ Transplantation" initiative? It feels like they're trying to reinvent the wheel while driving straight into a ditch. They’re throwing around these massive, sweeping claims about medical ethics and transparency, but when you actually peel back the layers, it feels less like a movement for change and more like a disorganized shouting match against the entire American medical establishment. They want to talk about systemic flaws in how we handle organ transplants here in the States—questioning everything from donor protocols to the way hospitals communicate with families. I get the sentiment, I really do. We all know the system isn't perfect; even a glance at how Medicare handles complex cases shows there's plenty of room for bureaucratic messiness. But there's a fine line between being a whistleblower and just being a contrarian for the sake of it. The tone of their messaging is what gets me. It’s heavy-handed. They act as if they’re the only ones with a moral compass, casting doubt on every major transplant center from New York to LA. It’s incredibly aggressive. Is it an attempt at actual reform, or just a collection of people who are angry at the status quo? Sometimes I think they’re just looking for a fight with the Department of Health and Human Services. I can see why people gravitate toward it, though. When you feel like the institutions meant to protect you are opaque or slow, a group that screams "transparency!" sounds like a hero. But you have to ask: what is the actual end goal? If the goal is to improve patient outcomes and clarify the process for grieving families, then fine. But if it's just to cast shadows of doubt without offering a concrete, workable alternative to current American medical standards, then it’s just noise. It’s loud, it’s frantic, and honestly, it’s exhausting.

The people running this organization are honestly a joke. They go through all these grand motions, pretending to be productive, but they aren't actually doing a damn thing—though, I suppose they don't really *need* to work when the money just keeps rolling in regardless. It’s all just a massive charade. They’ve even got themselves a formal board of directors, glossy printed brochures, and their own YouTube channel to maintain the illusion. None of this theater would even be possible without that constant, steady stream of funding hitting their accounts. And get this: the guy heading the whole operation is a cardiologist. Can you believe that?

What kind of life are we even talking about when someone’s cerebrum, cerebellum, and brainstem—that vital medulla oblongata everyone calls the brainstem—are all completely non-functional? What does that existence actually look like? We’re looking at a person who hasn't maintained a single autonomous function. And let's be clear: I'm primarily talking about the loss of spontaneous breathing. Seriously, what kind of life is that?

Can you just take an organ from any random person and transplant it into anyone else, or are there actual limitations here? I mean, is it like trying to swap an engine from one car into another—where you have to worry about whether the parts actually fit or if the whole thing is going to blow up? There's gotta be some rules to this, right?

How much life is actually left in someone who can't breathe on their own? I mean, how much "life" is there really in a person facing brain asystole?

If we’ve actually proven that everything inside the skull—the cerebrum, the cerebellum, the brainstem—is completely dead, then the very thing that makes us human is gone. Period. If you really want to go down that road, you can stop talking about a "living organism" altogether. At that point, you're just looking at a collection of functional organs. There is a massive, fundamental difference there.

Oh, really? Are you seriously suggesting you’ve never heard of the autonomic nervous system? Look, fine, maybe you don't need to know that, but the folks at the OPO—specifically her leadership and every doctor employed there—absolutely *should* know that certain functions aren't controlled by the brain, but by centers outside of it (like the sympathetic ganglia in the chest and abdomen). The entire digestive tract has two independent nerve systems (the Meissner and Auerbachov plexuses) that stay active regardless of whether the brain is functioning or if the person is even alive. To ignore a fact that you learn as early as your second year of med school is just plain biased.

Is that so? So you're one of those witnesses who allegedly heard that sentence back in 1987 in Hannover?

If you're going to quote something, at least do it properly. Because on that OPO website, this is actually what it says:

Renate Greinert had asked Prof. Pichlmayr back then in Hannover:

“Why didn't you explain to us,
what it truly means to be an organ donor?”

That was his response before witnesses:

“If we educate society about organ donation,
we won't get any more organs.”

Prof. Rudolf Pichlmayr – 1987


Or, in plain English:
Renate Greinert once asked Professor Pichlmayr in Hannover:
"Why haven't you explained to us exactly what being an organ donor entails?"
His answer, in front of witnesses:
"If we were to explain the reality to society, we wouldn't receive any more organs."

Prof. Pichlmayr passed away in 1997 in Mexico. We can't exactly go ask him to verify the accuracy of this statement. Nor can we ask if the quote, assuming it's true, was ripped out of context or not. So, we can't say he definitely said it; we can only say that a certain Renate Greinert *claims* he said it. And who is this Renate, anyway? Well, look at that—she's a member of the executive board for that very same OPO initiative!
https://initiative-kao.de/kritische-...o-ev/#vorstand

Wow! So, we're dealing with a woman whose entire profession is pushing a specific agenda. Someone who is obsessed with making sure people only hear the information that suits her narrative. Someone who would coldly tell anyone waiting for a kidney transplant, "What do you care about a kidney? You have dialysis" (see link below). But oh, she won't mention the long-term risks and complications of dialysis, no, no—that doesn't interest her. She only cares about making sure her side gets heard. Hypocrite.

https://www.gesundheit-adhoc.de/tag-...ende-2019.html

"Renata Greinert: „It’s rarely actually about saving a life. According to the latest data from the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network, 77% of organ recipients are specifically waiting for a kidney. These people already have an alternative—dialysis."

Does anything like that exist here in the States? And what would you even call their little group in English: "Critical Enlightenment on Organ Transplantation"?
brightgull95 said:
Jeffrey Wilson4 Asks:
If you dig through German literature, you’ll find a massive amount of critical commentary regarding the darker, often overlooked side of organ donation and the entire field of transplant medicine. There's a whole world of intense scrutiny out there that people just don't talk about enough.
If you happen to be fluent in German, you really ought to take a look at this website:

I’ve been digging through this site, and frankly, my blood pressure is spiking just looking at it. This whole "Critical Enlightenment on Organ Transplantation" initiative? It feels like they're trying to reinvent the wheel while driving straight into a ditch. They’re throwing around these massive, sweeping claims about medical ethics and transparency, but when you actually peel back the layers, it feels less like a movement for change and more like a disorganized shouting match against the entire American medical establishment. They want to talk about systemic flaws in how we handle organ transplants here in the States—questioning everything from donor protocols to the way hospitals communicate with families. I get the sentiment, I really do. We all know the system isn't perfect; even a glance at how Medicare handles complex cases shows there's plenty of room for bureaucratic messiness. But there's a fine line between being a whistleblower and just being a contrarian for the sake of it. The tone of their messaging is what gets me. It’s heavy-handed. They act as if they’re the only ones with a moral compass, casting doubt on every major transplant center from New York to LA. It’s incredibly aggressive. Is it an attempt at actual reform, or just a collection of people who are angry at the status quo? Sometimes I think they’re just looking for a fight with the Department of Health and Human Services. I can see why people gravitate toward it, though. When you feel like the institutions meant to protect you are opaque or slow, a group that screams "transparency!" sounds like a hero. But you have to ask: what is the actual end goal? If the goal is to improve patient outcomes and clarify the process for grieving families, then fine. But if it's just to cast shadows of doubt without offering a concrete, workable alternative to current American medical standards, then it’s just noise. It’s loud, it’s frantic, and honestly, it’s exhausting.

The people running this organization are honestly a joke. They go through all these grand motions, pretending to be productive, but they aren't actually doing a damn thing—though, I suppose they don't really *need* to work when the money just keeps rolling in regardless. It’s all just a massive charade. They’ve even got themselves a formal board of directors, glossy printed brochures, and their own YouTube channel to maintain the illusion. None of this theater would even be possible without that constant, steady stream of funding hitting their accounts. And get this: the guy heading the whole operation is a cardiologist. Can you believe that?

What kind of life are we even talking about when someone’s cerebrum, cerebellum, and brainstem—that vital medulla oblongata everyone calls the brainstem—are all completely non-functional? What does that existence actually look like? We’re looking at a person who hasn't maintained a single autonomous function. And let's be clear: I'm primarily talking about the loss of spontaneous breathing. Seriously, what kind of life is that?

Can you just take an organ from any random person and transplant it into anyone else, or are there actual limitations here? I mean, is it like trying to swap an engine from one car into another—where you have to worry about whether the parts actually fit or if the whole thing is going to blow up? There's gotta be some rules to this, right?

How much life is actually left in someone who can't breathe on their own? I mean, how much "life" is there really in a person facing brain asystole?

If we’ve actually proven that everything inside the skull—the cerebrum, the cerebellum, the brainstem—is completely dead, then the very thing that makes us human is gone. Period. If you really want to go down that road, you can stop talking about a "living organism" altogether. At that point, you're just looking at a collection of functional organs. There is a massive, fundamental difference there.

Oh, really? Are you seriously suggesting you’ve never heard of the autonomic nervous system? Look, fine, maybe you don't need to know that, but the folks at the OPO—specifically her leadership and every doctor employed there—absolutely *should* know that certain functions aren't controlled by the brain, but by centers outside of it (like the sympathetic ganglia in the chest and abdomen). The entire digestive tract has two independent nerve systems (the Meissner and Auerbachov plexuses) that stay active regardless of whether the brain is functioning or if the person is even alive. To ignore a fact that you learn as early as your second year of med school is just plain biased.

Is that so? So you're one of those witnesses who allegedly heard that sentence back in 1987 in Hannover?

If you're going to quote something, at least do it properly. Because on that OPO website, this is actually what it says:

Renate Greinert had asked Prof. Pichlmayr back then in Hannover:

“Why didn't you explain to us,
what it truly means to be an organ donor?”

That was his response before witnesses:

“If we educate society about organ donation,
we won't get any more organs.”

Prof. Rudolf Pichlmayr – 1987


Or, in plain English:
Renate Greinert once asked Professor Pichlmayr in Hannover:
"Why haven't you explained to us exactly what being an organ donor entails?"
His answer, in front of witnesses:
"If we were to explain the reality to society, we wouldn't receive any more organs."

Prof. Pichlmayr passed away in 1997 in Mexico. We can't exactly go ask him to verify the accuracy of this statement. Nor can we ask if the quote, assuming it's true, was ripped out of context or not. So, we can't say he definitely said it; we can only say that a certain Renate Greinert *claims* he said it. And who is this Renate, anyway? Well, look at that—she's a member of the executive board for that very same OPO initiative!
https://initiative-kao.de/kritische-...o-ev/#vorstand

Wow! So, we're dealing with a woman whose entire profession is pushing a specific agenda. Someone who is obsessed with making sure people only hear the information that suits her narrative. Someone who would coldly tell anyone waiting for a kidney transplant, "What do you care about a kidney? You have dialysis" (see link below). But oh, she won't mention the long-term risks and complications of dialysis, no, no—that doesn't interest her. She only cares about making sure her side gets heard. Hypocrite.

https://www.gesundheit-adhoc.de/tag-...ende-2019.html

"Renata Greinert: „It’s rarely actually about saving a life. According to the latest data from the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network, 77% of organ recipients are specifically waiting for a kidney. These people already have an alternative—dialysis."

Yeah, exactly—it's just pure vegetative state territory. But then again, what about the lives of most people who actually receive an organ? Are they actually "cured," or are they just permanent sick persons? How long do they even last before the body decides to reject the "new" part? It isn't that black and white. We really need to look at the other side of the story that transplant medicine keeps feeding us.
brightgull95 said:
Jeffrey Wilson4 Asks:
If you dig through German literature, you’ll find a massive amount of critical commentary regarding the darker, often overlooked side of organ donation and the entire field of transplant medicine. There's a whole world of intense scrutiny out there that people just don't talk about enough.
If you happen to be fluent in German, you really ought to take a look at this website:

I’ve been digging through this site, and frankly, my blood pressure is spiking just looking at it. This whole "Critical Enlightenment on Organ Transplantation" initiative? It feels like they're trying to reinvent the wheel while driving straight into a ditch. They’re throwing around these massive, sweeping claims about medical ethics and transparency, but when you actually peel back the layers, it feels less like a movement for change and more like a disorganized shouting match against the entire American medical establishment. They want to talk about systemic flaws in how we handle organ transplants here in the States—questioning everything from donor protocols to the way hospitals communicate with families. I get the sentiment, I really do. We all know the system isn't perfect; even a glance at how Medicare handles complex cases shows there's plenty of room for bureaucratic messiness. But there's a fine line between being a whistleblower and just being a contrarian for the sake of it. The tone of their messaging is what gets me. It’s heavy-handed. They act as if they’re the only ones with a moral compass, casting doubt on every major transplant center from New York to LA. It’s incredibly aggressive. Is it an attempt at actual reform, or just a collection of people who are angry at the status quo? Sometimes I think they’re just looking for a fight with the Department of Health and Human Services. I can see why people gravitate toward it, though. When you feel like the institutions meant to protect you are opaque or slow, a group that screams "transparency!" sounds like a hero. But you have to ask: what is the actual end goal? If the goal is to improve patient outcomes and clarify the process for grieving families, then fine. But if it's just to cast shadows of doubt without offering a concrete, workable alternative to current American medical standards, then it’s just noise. It’s loud, it’s frantic, and honestly, it’s exhausting.

The people running this organization are honestly a joke. They go through all these grand motions, pretending to be productive, but they aren't actually doing a damn thing—though, I suppose they don't really *need* to work when the money just keeps rolling in regardless. It’s all just a massive charade. They’ve even got themselves a formal board of directors, glossy printed brochures, and their own YouTube channel to maintain the illusion. None of this theater would even be possible without that constant, steady stream of funding hitting their accounts. And get this: the guy heading the whole operation is a cardiologist. Can you believe that?

What kind of life are we even talking about when someone’s cerebrum, cerebellum, and brainstem—that vital medulla oblongata everyone calls the brainstem—are all completely non-functional? What does that existence actually look like? We’re looking at a person who hasn't maintained a single autonomous function. And let's be clear: I'm primarily talking about the loss of spontaneous breathing. Seriously, what kind of life is that?

Can you just take an organ from any random person and transplant it into anyone else, or are there actual limitations here? I mean, is it like trying to swap an engine from one car into another—where you have to worry about whether the parts actually fit or if the whole thing is going to blow up? There's gotta be some rules to this, right?

How much life is actually left in someone who can't breathe on their own? I mean, how much "life" is there really in a person facing brain asystole?

If we’ve actually proven that everything inside the skull—the cerebrum, the cerebellum, the brainstem—is completely dead, then the very thing that makes us human is gone. Period. If you really want to go down that road, you can stop talking about a "living organism" altogether. At that point, you're just looking at a collection of functional organs. There is a massive, fundamental difference there.

Oh, really? Are you seriously suggesting you’ve never heard of the autonomic nervous system? Look, fine, maybe you don't need to know that, but the folks at the OPO—specifically her leadership and every doctor employed there—absolutely *should* know that certain functions aren't controlled by the brain, but by centers outside of it (like the sympathetic ganglia in the chest and abdomen). The entire digestive tract has two independent nerve systems (the Meissner and Auerbachov plexuses) that stay active regardless of whether the brain is functioning or if the person is even alive. To ignore a fact that you learn as early as your second year of med school is just plain biased.

Is that so? So you're one of those witnesses who allegedly heard that sentence back in 1987 in Hannover?

If you're going to quote something, at least do it properly. Because on that OPO website, this is actually what it says:

Renate Greinert had asked Prof. Pichlmayr back then in Hannover:

“Why didn't you explain to us,
what it truly means to be an organ donor?”

That was his response before witnesses:

“If we educate society about organ donation,
we won't get any more organs.”

Prof. Rudolf Pichlmayr – 1987


Or, in plain English:
Renate Greinert once asked Professor Pichlmayr in Hannover:
"Why haven't you explained to us exactly what being an organ donor entails?"
His answer, in front of witnesses:
"If we were to explain the reality to society, we wouldn't receive any more organs."

Prof. Pichlmayr passed away in 1997 in Mexico. We can't exactly go ask him to verify the accuracy of this statement. Nor can we ask if the quote, assuming it's true, was ripped out of context or not. So, we can't say he definitely said it; we can only say that a certain Renate Greinert *claims* he said it. And who is this Renate, anyway? Well, look at that—she's a member of the executive board for that very same OPO initiative!
https://initiative-kao.de/kritische-...o-ev/#vorstand

Wow! So, we're dealing with a woman whose entire profession is pushing a specific agenda. Someone who is obsessed with making sure people only hear the information that suits her narrative. Someone who would coldly tell anyone waiting for a kidney transplant, "What do you care about a kidney? You have dialysis" (see link below). But oh, she won't mention the long-term risks and complications of dialysis, no, no—that doesn't interest her. She only cares about making sure her side gets heard. Hypocrite.

https://www.gesundheit-adhoc.de/tag-...ende-2019.html

"Renata Greinert: „It’s rarely actually about saving a life. According to the latest data from the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network, 77% of organ recipients are specifically waiting for a kidney. These people already have an alternative—dialysis."

Thanks! 👍 German definitely isn't my strong suit.
I stumbled upon this text by Renata—could you give us a translation? Thanks in advance!

https://www.transplantation-informat...entag_2005.htm

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