The Ides of March (2011)

Kimberly Anderson22 said:******** ONLY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE **********

No, I didn't miss Paul's bit about "loyalty"—that part felt pretty aggressive.
But honestly, the whole setup regarding that meeting, which is supposed to be the core of the plot, just feels incredibly forced and unconvincing to me.

When Ida blackmailed Stephen, why wouldn't he just calmly tell her, "Look, what you write hurts, but of course I already talked to Paul and told him I was just going to see what Duffy wants"?
She could only really squeeze him if she was absolutely certain he wasn't acting in "coordinated action" with Paul, yet it’s pretty obvious that Stephen didn't give a damn about Paul leaking the news to Ida in the first place....

And why couldn't Paul himself, when the same guy called him right after the Duffy-Stephen meeting, just say he had literally just walked out of a meeting with Duffy—or even better, that Duffy actually tried to poach him? What's so scandalous about that? There’s even that call FROM BEFORE the meeting (which Paul couldn't take) serving as proof that he wasn't trying to hide anything.

Finally, why does Paul even need to leak info to the press??? It's pretty clear he could just fire Stephen from the team without all that drama....

Even the whole origin story for Stephen's suspicion feels like pretty weak writing.

Even if we buy the idea that young, hot-headed, idealistic Morris's driver doesn't actually live by his principles and just clings to whoever is winning, how exactly could Duffy's talk convince Stephen that the victory for the clueless Pullman (who is trailing in the polls) is a done deal? Like, Pullman is fighting to win over Thompson? Really? And Paul is literally on a mission to him with that exact same goal...

Duffy's theories about Republicans turning out in droves to elect a weaker Democrat (Pullman) are about as believable as Paul's theories to Thompson that irritated Republicans would want to crush Pullman, even though Morris is closer to the neutrals....
In any case, it hardly qualifies as some earth-shattering "revelation" that would leave someone breathless, especially someone who's already been through three or four campaigns... 🙄

Did it ever cross your mind that it's being intentionally unrealistic and stretched thin? 😍

Does anyone actually know what "Drudge" or "Roll Call" even refers to?
It seems like Ida was trying to leverage something over Stephen by threatening to leak details about his meeting with Duffy to those... well, those outlets that monitor the election process, I suppose.
(“She’s gonna take this to Drudge or Roll Call or some shit.”)

I mean, how would news of a meeting like that really hurt Stephen more than it would hurt Duffy?

And why would Paul say something like, "I made a fucking ass of myself and I gave away our game plan," after hearing from Stephen about what he and Duffy (Thompson...) had discussed?

Kimberly Anderson22 said:Does anyone actually know what "Drudge" or "Roll Call" even refers to?
It seems like Ida was trying to leverage something over Stephen by threatening to leak details about his meeting with Duffy to those... well, those outlets that monitor the election process, I suppose.
(“She’s gonna take this to Drudge or Roll Call or some shit.”)

I mean, how would news of a meeting like that really hurt Stephen more than it would hurt Duffy?

And why would Paul say something like, "I made a fucking ass of myself and I gave away our game plan," after hearing from Stephen about what he and Duffy (Thompson...) had discussed?

They're talking about the Drudge Report—that web portal that obsessively covers high-level American politics (it leans Republican, so any dirt coming out of the Democratic camp would be treated like pure gold)....

Roll Call is one of those Washington publications catering to the army of political insiders—you know, the party delegates and various other bureaucrats who live for this stuff—while the general public mostly ignores it because they focus on niche, hyper-specific American domestic policy issues. It's a classic trade industry paper. Think of it like Variety or The Hollywood Reporter, but strictly for the political circuit.

Kimberly Anderson22 said:Does anyone actually know what "Drudge" or "Roll Call" even refers to?
It seems like Ida was trying to leverage something over Stephen by threatening to leak details about his meeting with Duffy to those... well, those outlets that monitor the election process, I suppose.
(“She’s gonna take this to Drudge or Roll Call or some shit.”)

I mean, how would news of a meeting like that really hurt Stephen more than it would hurt Duffy?

And why would Paul say something like, "I made a fucking ass of myself and I gave away our game plan," after hearing from Stephen about what he and Duffy (Thompson...) had discussed?

It really comes down to the tone and the angle used to frame the story. Since Paul was the one who passed that info to Ida, the story would be framed specifically to undermine Stephen. Something along the lines of, "Stephen, a key figure in Governor Morris's campaign, met privately with the campaign manager for Morris's opponent—all behind the backs of his own colleagues, including Governor Morris himself."

Basically, it's media groundwork being laid to justify kicking Stephen out of the campaign, which is scheduled to happen later that same day.

Kimberly Anderson22 said:Does anyone actually know what "Drudge" or "Roll Call" even refers to?
It seems like Ida was trying to leverage something over Stephen by threatening to leak details about his meeting with Duffy to those... well, those outlets that monitor the election process, I suppose.
(“She’s gonna take this to Drudge or Roll Call or some shit.”)

I mean, how would news of a meeting like that really hurt Stephen more than it would hurt Duffy?

And why would Paul say something like, "I made a fucking ass of myself and I gave away our game plan," after hearing from Stephen about what he and Duffy (Thompson...) had discussed?

He's angry because Stephen failed to relay Duffy's intel—specifically, that Duffy's side is holding Thompson in their grip by dangling a Secretary of State position if he supports their candidate. If he had known that sooner, Paul would have handled Thompson differently; he wouldn't have leaked confidential details regarding Morris's future plans, nor would he have wasted time offering him trivial positions that don't carry nearly the prestige of a Secretary of State role.

Donna Sullivan6 said:They're talking about the Drudge Report—that web portal that obsessively covers high-level American politics (it leans Republican, so any dirt coming out of the Democratic camp would be treated like pure gold)....

Roll Call is one of those Washington publications catering to the army of political insiders—you know, the party delegates and various other bureaucrats who live for this stuff—while the general public mostly ignores it because they focus on niche, hyper-specific American domestic policy issues. It's a classic trade industry paper. Think of it like Variety or The Hollywood Reporter, but strictly for the political circuit.

It really comes down to the tone and the angle used to frame the story. Since Paul was the one who passed that info to Ida, the story would be framed specifically to undermine Stephen. Something along the lines of, "Stephen, a key figure in Governor Morris's campaign, met privately with the campaign manager for Morris's opponent—all behind the backs of his own colleagues, including Governor Morris himself."

Basically, it's media groundwork being laid to justify kicking Stephen out of the campaign, which is scheduled to happen later that same day.

He's angry because Stephen failed to relay Duffy's intel—specifically, that Duffy's side is holding Thompson in their grip by dangling a Secretary of State position if he supports their candidate. If he had known that sooner, Paul would have handled Thompson differently; he wouldn't have leaked confidential details regarding Morris's future plans, nor would he have wasted time offering him trivial positions that don't carry nearly the prestige of a Secretary of State role.

Thanks for the info.

Donna Sullivan6 said:They're talking about the Drudge Report—that web portal that obsessively covers high-level American politics (it leans Republican, so any dirt coming out of the Democratic camp would be treated like pure gold)....

Roll Call is one of those Washington publications catering to the army of political insiders—you know, the party delegates and various other bureaucrats who live for this stuff—while the general public mostly ignores it because they focus on niche, hyper-specific American domestic policy issues. It's a classic trade industry paper. Think of it like Variety or The Hollywood Reporter, but strictly for the political circuit.

It really comes down to the tone and the angle used to frame the story. Since Paul was the one who passed that info to Ida, the story would be framed specifically to undermine Stephen. Something along the lines of, "Stephen, a key figure in Governor Morris's campaign, met privately with the campaign manager for Morris's opponent—all behind the backs of his own colleagues, including Governor Morris himself."

Basically, it's media groundwork being laid to justify kicking Stephen out of the campaign, which is scheduled to happen later that same day.

He's angry because Stephen failed to relay Duffy's intel—specifically, that Duffy's side is holding Thompson in their grip by dangling a Secretary of State position if he supports their candidate. If he had known that sooner, Paul would have handled Thompson differently; he wouldn't have leaked confidential details regarding Morris's future plans, nor would he have wasted time offering him trivial positions that don't carry nearly the prestige of a Secretary of State role.

It makes sense, I guess, but the reality is that neither Duffy nor anyone else could have really known if Stephen was doing anything behind Paul's back. At the end of the day, maybe it was just the fact that Paul's phone was unreachable that stopped Stephen from letting him know Duffy had reached out for a drink.
It’s just hard for me to wrap my head around why Stephen wouldn't have followed up that conversation with a meeting invite after Paul called him. I mean, seriously? What exactly is he gaining by keeping things under wraps like that? I guess there might be some reason, maybe, but it just seems... off.

Donna Sullivan6 said:They're talking about the Drudge Report—that web portal that obsessively covers high-level American politics (it leans Republican, so any dirt coming out of the Democratic camp would be treated like pure gold)....

Roll Call is one of those Washington publications catering to the army of political insiders—you know, the party delegates and various other bureaucrats who live for this stuff—while the general public mostly ignores it because they focus on niche, hyper-specific American domestic policy issues. It's a classic trade industry paper. Think of it like Variety or The Hollywood Reporter, but strictly for the political circuit.

It really comes down to the tone and the angle used to frame the story. Since Paul was the one who passed that info to Ida, the story would be framed specifically to undermine Stephen. Something along the lines of, "Stephen, a key figure in Governor Morris's campaign, met privately with the campaign manager for Morris's opponent—all behind the backs of his own colleagues, including Governor Morris himself."

Basically, it's media groundwork being laid to justify kicking Stephen out of the campaign, which is scheduled to happen later that same day.

He's angry because Stephen failed to relay Duffy's intel—specifically, that Duffy's side is holding Thompson in their grip by dangling a Secretary of State position if he supports their candidate. If he had known that sooner, Paul would have handled Thompson differently; he wouldn't have leaked confidential details regarding Morris's future plans, nor would he have wasted time offering him trivial positions that don't carry nearly the prestige of a Secretary of State role.

If I recall correctly, Stephen's chat with Duffy happened right after that Paul-Thompson meeting, so I guess Stephen wouldn't have had his info ready for him just yet.
This info should be pretty useful for Morris's team once they sit down to talk. They finally figured out exactly what Duffy's offer for Thompson looks like, and honestly, it seems like there's practically no downside at all. I guess it's a clean deal.

Kimberly Anderson22 said:Thanks for the info.

It makes sense, I guess, but the reality is that neither Duffy nor anyone else could have really known if Stephen was doing anything behind Paul's back. At the end of the day, maybe it was just the fact that Paul's phone was unreachable that stopped Stephen from letting him know Duffy had reached out for a drink.
It’s just hard for me to wrap my head around why Stephen wouldn't have followed up that conversation with a meeting invite after Paul called him. I mean, seriously? What exactly is he gaining by keeping things under wraps like that? I guess there might be some reason, maybe, but it just seems... off.

If I recall correctly, Stephen's chat with Duffy happened right after that Paul-Thompson meeting, so I guess Stephen wouldn't have had his info ready for him just yet.
This info should be pretty useful for Morris's team once they sit down to talk. They finally figured out exactly what Duffy's offer for Thompson looks like, and honestly, it seems like there's practically no downside at all. I guess it's a clean deal.

Well, look—Duffy was gambling and he won... he didn't know what would happen, when, or if at all, and honestly, Stephen didn't tell his colleagues anything either; he just put money on the table and figured if he won, great, and if not, then nobody gets anything.

Kimberly Anderson22 said:Thanks for the info.

It makes sense, I guess, but the reality is that neither Duffy nor anyone else could have really known if Stephen was doing anything behind Paul's back. At the end of the day, maybe it was just the fact that Paul's phone was unreachable that stopped Stephen from letting him know Duffy had reached out for a drink.
It’s just hard for me to wrap my head around why Stephen wouldn't have followed up that conversation with a meeting invite after Paul called him. I mean, seriously? What exactly is he gaining by keeping things under wraps like that? I guess there might be some reason, maybe, but it just seems... off.

If I recall correctly, Stephen's chat with Duffy happened right after that Paul-Thompson meeting, so I guess Stephen wouldn't have had his info ready for him just yet.
This info should be pretty useful for Morris's team once they sit down to talk. They finally figured out exactly what Duffy's offer for Thompson looks like, and honestly, it seems like there's practically no downside at all. I guess it's a clean deal.

He could have left a message, though. And even after the fact, he had the chance to mention it, so he didn't. At that moment, it wasn't some technicality preventing Stephen from telling Paul everything—it was just his own ego and a bit of bad timing.

Kimberly Anderson22 said:Thanks for the info.

It makes sense, I guess, but the reality is that neither Duffy nor anyone else could have really known if Stephen was doing anything behind Paul's back. At the end of the day, maybe it was just the fact that Paul's phone was unreachable that stopped Stephen from letting him know Duffy had reached out for a drink.
It’s just hard for me to wrap my head around why Stephen wouldn't have followed up that conversation with a meeting invite after Paul called him. I mean, seriously? What exactly is he gaining by keeping things under wraps like that? I guess there might be some reason, maybe, but it just seems... off.

If I recall correctly, Stephen's chat with Duffy happened right after that Paul-Thompson meeting, so I guess Stephen wouldn't have had his info ready for him just yet.
This info should be pretty useful for Morris's team once they sit down to talk. They finally figured out exactly what Duffy's offer for Thompson looks like, and honestly, it seems like there's practically no downside at all. I guess it's a clean deal.

Well, he was intrigued. He saw a young woman and got curious. He wanted to hear what Duffy had to say. Even if common sense told Stephen that showing up to the meeting wasn't exactly the best idea, his curiosity was piqued simply because the head of the opposition was scheduling a meeting in such a high-stakes, gambling sort of way. Duffy struck a chord and kept him interested enough to show up. Then, once he was there, Duffy starts showering him with praise—calling him a "top professional, capable, young, handsome, blah blah blah... and how all the competitors fear him"—and finally offers him a job transfer. It’s enough to make anyone's instincts go numb and drop their guard entirely.

To me, it seems perfectly plausible that a young, self-important little manager gets carried away and bites at the sweet words of an old pro, choosing to stay silent with his own people. We're all flawed creatures, I guess; no one is immune to flattery. Especially when that flattery is packaged nicely... you'll bite just like a fish.

Kimberly Anderson22 said:Thanks for the info.

It makes sense, I guess, but the reality is that neither Duffy nor anyone else could have really known if Stephen was doing anything behind Paul's back. At the end of the day, maybe it was just the fact that Paul's phone was unreachable that stopped Stephen from letting him know Duffy had reached out for a drink.
It’s just hard for me to wrap my head around why Stephen wouldn't have followed up that conversation with a meeting invite after Paul called him. I mean, seriously? What exactly is he gaining by keeping things under wraps like that? I guess there might be some reason, maybe, but it just seems... off.

If I recall correctly, Stephen's chat with Duffy happened right after that Paul-Thompson meeting, so I guess Stephen wouldn't have had his info ready for him just yet.
This info should be pretty useful for Morris's team once they sit down to talk. They finally figured out exactly what Duffy's offer for Thompson looks like, and honestly, it seems like there's practically no downside at all. I guess it's a clean deal.

Well, nothing concrete was actually settled during that initial meeting between Paul and Thompson—aside from the fact that the charade continues and they just kept testing each other. Paul merely had this impression that Thompson would offer his support, but that was just an impression; Thompson hasn't actually promised anything tangible. And Paul went into that follow-up meeting with Thompson at the exact moment Stephen withheld the news about the talk with Duffy—specifically, the info that Duffy's candidate offered Thompson the Secretary of State position. That information would have meant everything to Paul at that specific juncture.

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Kimberly Anderson22 says: >> This intel is useful for Morris's team following the discussion, since they now know the scale of Duffy's offer to Thompson, and there's practically no downside.

The damage lies in the fact that Paul spoke quite openly to Thompson about Morris's campaign plans—all while being completely certain that Thompson was on their side. If Paul had known that Thompson already had a Secretary of State offer sitting in his pocket from the opposition, he never would have been that candid, nor would he have wasted time offering him those trivial positions that don't even come close to the rank of Secretary of State.

As for any actual benefit this info brings to Morris's campaign following the Paul-Thompson talk... well, not much. Since Thompson has an offer for Secretary of State from the rival camp, there is a strong possibility he's already lost to Morris—either because Morris can't or won't match such an offer—and now they face the added problem that Thompson knows their entire roadmap while playing for the opposition. I suppose the information would have been far more valuable to them prior to that meeting.

Just finished the movie and I loved it. It’s smart, well-made, and actually holds your attention. 👍

I feel like it needs a little extra punch at the end for Clooney—honestly, just the fact that he isn't in the movie says everything you need to know about how toxic the political world has become. I’ve got a hunch he’ll end up taking home some hardware for this one eventually...

I appreciate the effort, really, but I think we should probably steer clear of all that overanalyzing obvious stuff—you know, all those comments about someone being "distracted by a pretty girl" or calling people "horny" and things like that. It just feels a bit much, I guess.
I guess we should probably just stick to the hard facts and the core details when it comes to the logic of how this all plays out. Maybe that's the best way to stay on track.

So... anyway...

Here's the logic behind it:

It looks like Duffy sees his candidate starting to slip away.
He makes this one pretty desperate move—desperate, I mean, because there’s really a slim chance it actually works out. (Side note: he later mentions he knew he had the game in the bag the second he "got" Stephen at the table.)
I guess we should look into recruiting someone from the opposition campaign—maybe a young media strategist who’s still got that hungry, idealistic streak in them. If we can actually talk them into jumping ship and joining our side... well, that would be a win, I suppose.

If he fails to win him over, things are supposedly fine. (RUPA: Fine how? If this info regarding the game involving Thompson is actually as vital as they say, the outcome wouldn't just be zero—it would be deep in the red. There isn't really anything in the plot suggesting that Duffy actually intended to blackmail Stephen, which is why it feels a bit weird to claim things would turn out okay if he refuses. Blackmail him with what, exactly? Did he even secure anything that could convince Paul the meeting actually took place? I don't see any evidence of that in the story. Plus, I guess it’s a little silly—or at least highly questionable—to assume Stephen wouldn't say a word to Paul.)

Duffy basically spills everything that the screenwriter calls a "war plan" to the other guy running the opposing campaign... he even goes on about what they offered Thompson (what a total joke!).
I mean, he’s such a sly fox, isn't he? And then you have the screenwriter trying so hard to convince us that he's this incredibly deep, cunning mastermind who had every single thing under control the entire time. I guess... maybe they just want us to see him that way.

Stephen seems to be wavering a bit. (Note: The screenwriter is really trying to sell us on the idea that what he said back at the bar is some kind of bombshell—something meant to shock a guy who’s already been through three or four political campaigns. Apparently, he’s suddenly all in on Morris's ideals, especially since Morris is actually leading the race right now.)

I guess Stephen isn't saying anything to Paul.
Why even bother keeping it quiet? You could always just get insurance for the situation, just in case he decides to stick around. I mean, there’s really no reason to hide the meeting itself, or the fact that he was offered a transition again. And honestly, why not mention that Duffy told him he's offering Thompson a spot as Under Secretary? It seems like such a weird move not to just ask Thompson what he actually wants. In the end, he said it himself anyway—it was all about playing with an open hand. If he speaks up, it just solidifies his standing with Paul, and it doesn't exactly stop him from leaving (if he hasn't quite made up his mind yet, I guess).

So, once Paul gets back, Stephen starts filling him in on that meeting with Duffy. Honestly, Paul couldn't help but wonder if Stephen’s loyalty had wavered for a second there, just for a moment. In that first conversation, though, the pressure was clearly hitting Stephen hard—he felt like he’d made a complete fool of himself in front of Thompson. He’d gone ahead and offered less than what Duffy had already put on the table, and to make matters worse, he basically handed over the whole "war plan." But now that he finally has proof that Stephen is truly loyal—especially after that one shaky moment earlier on—it looks like he's decided to kick such a valuable asset right out of the campaign. Maybe it's for the best, I guess, but man, it's a bold move.

Ida is basically blackmailing Stephen. (And honestly, looking at their conversation, they aren't even touching on the real issue here—like, where did she even get the idea that Stephen didn't say anything to Paul in the first place?) Apparently, she's trying to squeeze him into revealing what Paul was up to over at Thompson's. She says if he spills the beans, she'll keep her mouth shut. (I mean, was it really that hard to see that coming?)
.......................................

I’m just nearing the end of the film here, and I can't help but wonder about Thompson meeting with Stephen to ask about that Secretary of State position. It feels... I don't know, a bit off? I mean, why would he even go looking for that from them if he already has an offer on the table from Duffy? And honestly, if he actually prefers the idea of being Secretary of State under Morris rather than serving under Pullman, why wouldn't he just be upfront about that during his sit-down with Paul? I guess I just don't get why he's bothering to pitch this to another campaign official when he was literally just having the exact same conversation with the first one. It seems a little redundant, maybe?

Look, let me be clear here—I’m not saying this movie is some total disaster or a complete waste of time compared to everything else out there.
I suppose this just serves as more evidence for my point about...It’s all about those script-driven, director-led special effects, I guess. Or maybe that's just how some people see it. It feels like we spend so much time talking about the CGI or the explosions, but sometimes the real magic comes from how the writer structures the tension and how the director chooses to frame the chaos. It's more of an artistic blend than just hitting a button on a computer, I suppose. Just a thought.The plot feels a bit scattered, honestly. It’s like they didn't really take the time to dive into what makes these characters tick or why they're even doing what they're doing—there just isn't enough focus on those psychological motives to make them feel truly convincing. I guess the audience ends up more impressed by the sheer technical complexity of the production and gets swept up in the spectacle of the action itself, which, I suppose, leaves very little room to actually sit with the characters and process their motivations.

Personally, I found the film to be quite excellent. For those who might feel that these kinds of narratives have been seen and chewed over a hundred times already, I would suggest perhaps giving it a miss; otherwise, I’d say it's definitely worth a watch.

Caught this one yesterday—absolutely killer movie, 👍 highly recommend

'The Ides of March': A definitive American film for the post-Obama era @ nytimes.com

It’s a decent political flick. It doesn't exactly blow you away with some massive star power or groundbreaking directing, but if that kind of movie is your thing, it’s worth a watch. I did appreciate the occasional sharp jab at how messy things are in American politics these days. One sentence kept popping into my head while watching—it pretty much sums the whole thing up: politics is a total bitch. 7/10

Cool movie, honestly—really liked it. But now that I’m digging through the old comments, I’m seeing all the plot holes... Like, why did he even do that? Why would she go there? It's kind of messy, I guess.