State of the healthcare system in America: Let's discuss why it's failing

Kate Collins67 said:I honestly don't follow you. Half the time, everyone is preaching about how the patient has a "right to know" this and that.
But now, if I were to look a patient in the eye and tell them—based on my actual medical expertise—that they have maybe six months left to live and that I don't even know of a treatment that could change that outcome, suddenly that's considered wrong too.
I just don't get what exactly you're looking for here.
And frankly, I don't see why you'd bother getting someone banned over this; personally, I don't take offense that easily.

Something similar happened to us just the other day. We were at this party, everyone was a little tipsy, and toward the end, one of my closest friends asks my partner about her dad's condition... basically asking for the statistics. He gives it to her straight, and the poor girl just bursts into tears and runs to her car. I was so confused, and my partner felt terrible because he was just being honest about what the medical data showed. The next morning, I call her up to check in, and she tells me—"I'm okay. Honestly, I'd rather know the truth than be kept in the dark. Now that I've accepted the reality, I can actually find the strength to fight. Thank God someone was upfront with me."

Look, if the patient is acting like an animal, we don't necessarily have to act like one too...👎
When I was younger, I used to think you always had to assert yourself as the big authority figure in the room...
And sure, I managed to pull that off, but I eventually realized my job is just way easier when I choose to be kind...
When you stay approachable, patients don't feel the need to act out their primal instincts against you...😍
At the end of the day, we all have our own philosophies on how to make our careers more manageable...
Being kind isn't about how much you know; it’s about who you are as a person.👍

Casey Palmer5 said:First off, I feel like we're all just guessing here because nobody actually knows the specifics of this case. Second, if a child is truly that sick, you communicate that immediately—not three months down the line (if I can be a little blunt there). Third, you lay out the options, especially the potential outcomes. It’s much better to be honest than to let people live in a delusion; at least then they can mentally prepare somehow. Plus, you can provide contacts for support groups that offer mental health resources when the healthcare system falls short...

The outcomes for cancer with metastatic changes... Well, that second part is fine, but look—it was mentioned there’s cancer and metastasis, though I honestly don't know what stage they were talking about. If they identified it right at the start, then keeping someone in the hospital for three months might have actually been an act of compassion.

And as for that psychological support component? Yeah, that isn't officially part of any formal protocol.

Angela Wright said:You know what? I’m going to be incredibly rude just so I can get banned for it.😠

I want you to tell me how you'd feel when one of your own gets sick—and based on the medical data we see every day, there's a massive chance that'll happen, considering one in three Americans will face some form of cancer in their lifetime.
Go ahead, count the people living in your house, then come back and type this again if you actually have that much shamelessness in your soul!😠😠😠
Who exactly are you to decide what constitutes "the truth," where hope begins, and at what point it turns into a lie?!
That kind of arrogance is clearly your specialty, yet when it comes time to actually be bold and demand better working conditions, you suddenly vanish because you're too terrified of getting fired...😳

I honestly don't get where you're coming from because the guy was just laying out a statistical fact and that's just how it is... Your issue seems to be that you're taking this way too personally. He wasn't trying to count heads in the house or anything, he's just aware of the extra risk everyone faces of catching the same thing. So, maybe take a second to really think about what you said... Doctors deal in hope, because if they didn't, they wouldn't even suggest a specific treatment to you, but it's their job to give you the likely outcome, and that outcome is just a statistic pulled from previous cases. People who rely on hope, especially the fake kind, are usually into alternative medicine, whereas mainstream American medicine doesn't play that way. In Western medicine, everything needs a statistic, a foundation, and an explanation backed by actual research—everything is built on evidence-based medicine, and that’s just the reality of it... Whether one specific case ends up fitting into that larger percentage or not, only time will tell...

What you're calling arrogance is actually just the core of modern medicine, and honestly, that’s what we call expertise... if that doesn't sit right with you, then maybe you shouldn't be looking for treatment from the hard sciences at all...

Kate Collins67 said:I honestly don't follow you. Half the time, everyone is preaching about how the patient has a "right to know" this and that.
But now, if I were to look a patient in the eye and tell them—based on my actual medical expertise—that they have maybe six months left to live and that I don't even know of a treatment that could change that outcome, suddenly that's considered wrong too.
I just don't get what exactly you're looking for here.
And frankly, I don't see why you'd bother getting someone banned over this; personally, I don't take offense that easily.

They have a right to know while there's still time to hunt for other options! Are you really so numb from being in that profession that you can't grasp basic logic or follow a simple analogy after reading through this thread? Every single day at our foundation, we take in medical records from people who have been written off, and we send them abroad to get second opinions at top-tier clinics. And don't even get me started on rare tumors that nobody in our local medical establishment has the expertise to handle. We're talking about kids suffering from things like sarcomas. When we look overseas, we get a massive influx of options and different ways to approach treatment. You wouldn't believe it—many people who were essentially given up on here end up seeing results that blow your mind, once the protocols actually manage to fight their way through our healthcare system.
You won't get that kind of honesty from the doctors here. They won't say, "I don't know, I haven't seen this before, but you should talk to Dr. Smith." It's all about ego and prestige. They'd rather rob a patient of a chance to extend their life—a chance that might mean the entire world to someone—just so they don't look "weak" in front of their colleagues.

Angela Wright said:You know what? I’m going to be incredibly rude just so I can get banned for it.😠

I want you to tell me how you'd feel when one of your own gets sick—and based on the medical data we see every day, there's a massive chance that'll happen, considering one in three Americans will face some form of cancer in their lifetime.
Go ahead, count the people living in your house, then come back and type this again if you actually have that much shamelessness in your soul!😠😠😠
Who exactly are you to decide what constitutes "the truth," where hope begins, and at what point it turns into a lie?!
That kind of arrogance is clearly your specialty, yet when it comes time to actually be bold and demand better working conditions, you suddenly vanish because you're too terrified of getting fired...😳

Look, I’m not going to get bogged down in all the messy details here—but let me be crystal clear: I am not sitting around trembling at the thought of losing my job. Honestly? Getting canned might actually solve a few major headaches for me. The catch is, I can't just walk out and quit on my own terms; I have to wait until they hand me the pink slip through no fault of my own.

Every single time I take my pets to the vet, I walk away just blown away by them. Seriously, if you're working with animal patients, you really ought to take a page out of their book...

Jacob Fox6 said:I honestly don't get where you're coming from because the guy was just laying out a statistical fact and that's just how it is... Your issue seems to be that you're taking this way too personally. He wasn't trying to count heads in the house or anything, he's just aware of the extra risk everyone faces of catching the same thing. So, maybe take a second to really think about what you said... Doctors deal in hope, because if they didn't, they wouldn't even suggest a specific treatment to you, but it's their job to give you the likely outcome, and that outcome is just a statistic pulled from previous cases. People who rely on hope, especially the fake kind, are usually into alternative medicine, whereas mainstream American medicine doesn't play that way. In Western medicine, everything needs a statistic, a foundation, and an explanation backed by actual research—everything is built on evidence-based medicine, and that’s just the reality of it... Whether one specific case ends up fitting into that larger percentage or not, only time will tell...

What you're calling arrogance is actually just the core of modern medicine, and honestly, that’s what we call expertise... if that doesn't sit right with you, then maybe you shouldn't be looking for treatment from the hard sciences at all...

Sorry, but you're wrong. I used to hold that exact same view until I actually started digging into the subject, specifically regarding malignant diseases.
I honestly believe the ego trip among doctors is massive. We have people being sent from Miami to New York City with botched sarcomas or completely incorrect diagnoses because specialists aren't communicating with one another. They know perfectly well that at Mayo Clinic, there are only two or three specialists who actually handle those types of tumors. But once things get complicated, they ship them off... and by then, naturally, any shred of hope has been stripped away.
But I am going to say it for the hundredth time: the real problem is how nothing is communicated to the parents. Instead of getting clear, actionable data, they get stress shoved in their faces far too late to even look for other options. There is a world of difference between the two approaches.

Angela Wright said:They have a right to know while there's still time to hunt for other options! Are you really so numb from being in that profession that you can't grasp basic logic or follow a simple analogy after reading through this thread? Every single day at our foundation, we take in medical records from people who have been written off, and we send them abroad to get second opinions at top-tier clinics. And don't even get me started on rare tumors that nobody in our local medical establishment has the expertise to handle. We're talking about kids suffering from things like sarcomas. When we look overseas, we get a massive influx of options and different ways to approach treatment. You wouldn't believe it—many people who were essentially given up on here end up seeing results that blow your mind, once the protocols actually manage to fight their way through our healthcare system.
You won't get that kind of honesty from the doctors here. They won't say, "I don't know, I haven't seen this before, but you should talk to Dr. Smith." It's all about ego and prestige. They'd rather rob a patient of a chance to extend their life—a chance that might mean the entire world to someone—just so they don't look "weak" in front of their colleagues.

I couldn't agree more.
If our doctors actually had knowledge that was even half as big as their egos, we'd hear the truth more often.
To tell someone, "Hey, you need to go to Mayo Clinic for this," you actually have to be smart enough to know that's the move. But knowledge doesn't pay the bills, it doesn't add hours to your shift, and it doesn't boost your status. The only thing that should matter is whether the patient gets better, period.

@ Angela Wright

So... I’ve been wondering—are you guys footing the bill for all these sends yourselves, or what's the deal?

Angela Wright

Hey, don't get all worked up right now..
It's probably time to just call it a night..

You can't really expect doctors—people who spend their entire shift staring down the same grim realities, dealing with life-or-death situations and heavy illnesses—to listen to an argument that every single patient is just being "overly sensitive" or "too subjective."
Especially when those patients are just looking for straight answers..
The truth is, some people just don't have that empathetic spark, some choose to keep an emotional distance just to survive the job, and others are simply burnt out..

Plus, you'll always run into those high-maintenance patients who feel like nothing is ever quite right or good enough..👎

My point was simply this: everyone feels a lot better when things are communicated with a little bit of humanity, rather than coming off as arrogant...(and I'm definitely not questioning anyone's expertise here)🙂

Angela Wright said:They have a right to know while there's still time to hunt for other options! Are you really so numb from being in that profession that you can't grasp basic logic or follow a simple analogy after reading through this thread? Every single day at our foundation, we take in medical records from people who have been written off, and we send them abroad to get second opinions at top-tier clinics. And don't even get me started on rare tumors that nobody in our local medical establishment has the expertise to handle. We're talking about kids suffering from things like sarcomas. When we look overseas, we get a massive influx of options and different ways to approach treatment. You wouldn't believe it—many people who were essentially given up on here end up seeing results that blow your mind, once the protocols actually manage to fight their way through our healthcare system.
You won't get that kind of honesty from the doctors here. They won't say, "I don't know, I haven't seen this before, but you should talk to Dr. Smith." It's all about ego and prestige. They'd rather rob a patient of a chance to extend their life—a chance that might mean the entire world to someone—just so they don't look "weak" in front of their colleagues.

I guess in our healthcare system, you practically need a special kind of courage just to say that out loud. When I was hit with some really tough news, my first instinct was to ask, "Wait, why weren't you treating him for this or that?" And they just looked at me and said, "We didn't know; we haven't seen anything like this in 30 years." Well, if they didn't know, why did I? I knew because I spent four straight days glued to the internet researching everything possible, since it was completely outside my field. Seriously, it took me maybe thirty minutes of Googling to find the answer. If those doctors had just done a little bit of searching themselves, they might have actually had an interesting case study to present at a medical conference. In that situation, I honestly would have been much happier if I hadn't known anything at all...

swiftbear86 said:Look, if the patient is acting like an animal, we don't necessarily have to act like one too...👎
When I was younger, I used to think you always had to assert yourself as the big authority figure in the room...
And sure, I managed to pull that off, but I eventually realized my job is just way easier when I choose to be kind...
When you stay approachable, patients don't feel the need to act out their primal instincts against you...😍
At the end of the day, we all have our own philosophies on how to make our careers more manageable...
Being kind isn't about how much you know; it’s about who you are as a person.👍

I'm totally on board with that. Honestly, this is like the third time in forty minutes I've felt the need to bring up my take on workplace culture...

God... it feels like it never ends... people keep saying just be nice to everyone five times over... but that wasn't even the point, the point is when they grab you by the arm in the hallway and won't listen to a word you say after explaining it five different ways... the reality is you run into people where no matter how you approach them, there's zero connection... staying friendly works better in private practice because you actually know your patients, but in a big hospital setting, it's a whole different beast since you're seeing strangers constantly... today I had one crazy person walk in, then one normal person, and then immediately two more crazies right behind them, and it just kept going like that until the shift ended... it's enough to drive anyone insane... honestly, the only way to survive mentally is to just become numb to it all! Has it never occurred to people that since most doctors end up that way, it might actually be the only way to endure the job? A doctor is a human being too, but everyone forgets that because when it comes to their own health, people get so selfish that their true colors really start to show. Doctors aren't immune to bad moods, back pain, PMS if they're women, or personal drama... if a doctor said they didn't want to help, people would lose their minds, but if you ask them to find a needle in a haystack, suddenly it's "unbelievable."

Anyone who thinks they know how a doctor should behave should probably go through med school, finish residency, and grind through at least fifteen years of practice before they start lecturing us. This whole trend of criticizing doctors has become absolutely ridiculous—or maybe it's just me, but I always seem to encounter always either doctors who explain everything perfectly and are completely sane, or patients who are just straight-up delusional. Personally, when I see a doctor, I don't care what kind of mood they're in, it doesn't affect me at all. Except for that one doctor I mentioned, and that's only because she greets me and every other patient with such attitude, and hasn't checked blood pressure, lungs, or heart since she graduated... it's just the same thing every time.

Kate Collins67 said:@ Angela Wright

So... I’ve been wondering—are you guys footing the bill for all these sends yourselves, or what's the deal?

Look, here's the deal: in the States, we handle everything at our own expense, while patients pay for services abroad. We essentially act as the bridge, helping them locate a center of excellence and facilitating the dialogue with the specialists there. When you're dealing with some truly rare medical nonsense, the costs are actually quite reasonable. For instance, getting a second opinion plus a PhD consultation at a place like the Dan Faber Institute runs about $500. The only thing they ask for is that we coordinate with their doctor, which we handle through one of our volunteer oncologists. Honestly, any oncologist managing a patient's care should be able to do this themselves without feeling like their intelligence or expertise is being insulted.🙄

swiftbear86 said:Angela Wright

Hey, don't get all worked up right now..
It's probably time to just call it a night..

You can't really expect doctors—people who spend their entire shift staring down the same grim realities, dealing with life-or-death situations and heavy illnesses—to listen to an argument that every single patient is just being "overly sensitive" or "too subjective."
Especially when those patients are just looking for straight answers..
The truth is, some people just don't have that empathetic spark, some choose to keep an emotional distance just to survive the job, and others are simply burnt out..

Plus, you'll always run into those high-maintenance patients who feel like nothing is ever quite right or good enough..👎

My point was simply this: everyone feels a lot better when things are communicated with a little bit of humanity, rather than coming off as arrogant...(and I'm definitely not questioning anyone's expertise here)🙂

I'm pretty much on board with most of that...

Kate Collins67 said:@ Angela Wright

So... I’ve been wondering—are you guys footing the bill for all these sends yourselves, or what's the deal?

Actually, you pay for a second opinion elsewhere, but usually, an association helps you find the right contacts. They basically have the inside scoop on which clinic is best for what. For instance, if you're dealing with testicular tumors, Dr. Unicorn at Indiana University is the top choice. The association finds that info and gets everything sent over to him—stuff that’s pretty hard for a regular person to figure out unless they've dealt with it before, but the association knows the ropes...

sorry Jane Doe if I got that wrong.

Even if we send everything we can't handle over to a specialized clinic, I'd assume the responsibility falls on them to pass it up the chain if they're out of their depth too... But here I go again, circling back to the same old grievance—the fact that our tertiary care has basically been downgraded to secondary level.

When you're stuck operating at a secondary level, you simply cannot tackle highly specialized medicine. It’s impossible. Why? Because there's a massive lack of hands-on experience, and let's be honest, the technical equipment just isn't there to support it.

Angela Wright said:Sorry, but you're wrong. I used to hold that exact same view until I actually started digging into the subject, specifically regarding malignant diseases.
I honestly believe the ego trip among doctors is massive. We have people being sent from Miami to New York City with botched sarcomas or completely incorrect diagnoses because specialists aren't communicating with one another. They know perfectly well that at Mayo Clinic, there are only two or three specialists who actually handle those types of tumors. But once things get complicated, they ship them off... and by then, naturally, any shred of hope has been stripped away.
But I am going to say it for the hundredth time: the real problem is how nothing is communicated to the parents. Instead of getting clear, actionable data, they get stress shoved in their faces far too late to even look for other options. There is a world of difference between the two approaches.

Well, honestly, you totally took what I said out of context since you only just decided to add that extra explanation now...

I mean, what do I even know about all that technical incompetence? I honestly can't say much since I'm not dealing with any of that myself and I really don't want to just sit here theorizing about it... 🤷I just know that I’m out here giving it my all, trying to learn the ropes and do everything by the book, but as for the rest of it... I honestly don't know... the only people I could really weigh in on are my classmates from college, because when it comes to actual doctors, I just don't have a clue... 🤷

Jacob Fox6

I guess we’ll end up seeing eye to eye after all..
It’s just a better experience for you too when you see a doctor who isn't constantly on edge... someone who isn't going to snap at you..
Plus, when they know you're a fellow professional, the whole vibe changes..
You're naturally going to ask more questions, whereas your "average" patient usually doesn't realize what they didn't understand until they're already back home..
Working in a hospital setting is definitely tougher, though. You deal with all sorts of different personalities, and every single doctor, nurse, and staff member has their own little way of coping just so they can head home feeling sane..😢
But like I said, everything is just easier when you lead with a little kindness..👍

Hope you have a smooth shift today🙂

Casey Palmer5 said:Every single time I take my pets to the vet, I walk away just blown away by them. Seriously, if you're working with animal patients, you really ought to take a page out of their book...

😁

You totally missed the most obvious point here... animals can't talk, so vets don't really have anyone to lose their cool with after fifteen years on the job... 😁