State of the healthcare system in America: Let's discuss why it's failing

dustymarlin10 said:Hey Jason Nelson64, just so you know, Medicare actually reimburses you if you had to pay out of pocket for a screening because the US healthcare system couldn't get you in within a month...

That exam was back in 2007. That option didn't even exist yet... unfortunately.

Jason Nelson64 said:That exam was back in 2007. That option didn't even exist yet... unfortunately.

Bummer...

Look, dustymarlin10, you actually have a solid, reliable dentist there. But honestly? If you look at how things work around here, it’s pretty obvious that laws and Medicare regulations are treated like suggestions. People in these institutions just follow whatever rules suit them at the moment. It all comes down to the whims of whoever is behind the desk, which is absolutely disastrous. I used to have supplemental insurance because I’m 80% disabled, and even then, my dentist had no problem charging me $35 out of pocket. I don't carry that extra coverage anymore, but I'm still disabled and pulling in a pension that sits just slightly above the poverty line. It's the same old story. $500 And I'm supposed to just step up and help Medicare? Where exactly are we headed here? Based on the examples being thrown around, it’s pretty obvious we aren't even living in the same country anymore... or maybe we aren't.

dustymarlin10 said:Hey Jason Nelson64, just so you know, Medicare actually reimburses you if you had to pay out of pocket for a screening because the US healthcare system couldn't get you in within a month...

And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

ruggedscout91 said:And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

Well, if you do that, it isn't really about solidarity anymore. In the US, one worker basically supports an unemployed person and a retiree. If we switched to that model here, we'd end up with a US-style healthcare system. It's hard to even cover basic costs in a country where such a huge chunk of the population isn't even in the workforce. Honestly, it would be a nightmare—total inefficiency combined with hospital capacity limits...

That's why my honey is going to pull at least 70 hours of overtime this month, just so he can get that extra paycheck soon.

ruggedscout91 said:Dear Jacob Fox6, what you wrote refers exclusively to the poor organization of healthcare. They throw away the positive aspects of the old system, yet they fail to offer new solutions—or worse, they offer alternatives that are even more inefficient and expensive.
The population hasn't increased nearly as much as the bureaucracy. The number of specialist offices is higher, and the amount of medical equipment far exceeds what we had in the previous era, yet it's harder than ever to actually get service or book an appointment. How does that make sense?
My husband went to his dentist after 14 years for a cleaning and some follow-up work based on a private agreement. It was all out-of-pocket $67 costs. Medicare plus supplemental insurance equals $67 for dental work? No one asked him why that same dentist has been collecting fees from the government for him for 14 years. I also go to the dentist every 15 years for a checkup (my teeth are fine), and if I need a filling, it's immediately $17, and that was five years ago.
No one asked me where the money went when I was 11 either. My coverage just rolls along automatically.
That is how it works across the board.
Every preventive measure I take, I pay for entirely out of my own pocket. I don't even bother carrying my health insurance card lately, because who cares?
There you have it. That is our socialized healthcare: where the hardest part is actually getting an appointment or seeing a provider at all. Later on, God knows what else a person has to endure just to survive. In this system, being critically ill is the only recognized category; everything else is treated like a game with no rules.

Honestly, I’ve been saying this whole time—the healthcare system is broken.👍

I think there might be a little misunderstanding here. 🙂

I totally agree with you. I was just trying to distance myself from all the political stuff... personally, I don't care if we're talking communism or capitalism, the reality for me is that things just aren't working right now. From my perspective, all I want is to be able to see a doctor when I need to without having a nervous breakdown or emptying my bank account. Since everyone is so fed up with our healthcare, I'm definitely leaning towards being angry and calling people out.

That comment from Milinovic about cutting supplemental insurance for people on unemployment is just insane to me. If someone is unemployed, should they immediately be cast aside and treated like trash? His excuse was, "as a husband, I make enough to pay for my wife's supplemental insurance"... man, that statement still makes my blood boil...

I don't even know where to start arguing with that... I won't even try because my blood pressure would probably hit 190 thanks to my social conscience (unfortunately).

The guy is just an idiot... only a complete fool could say something like that. And that brings me back to my point—we’re stopping being a socially conscious nation. When I say "social" (looks like we had a misunderstanding there😉), I don't mean political leanings, I mean a specific discipline within medicine that exists on paper even though its actual practice is super questionable. When a pillar of capitalism—the US—works specifically to change the status quo from non-social medicine, I have to ask: "Who does Milinovic think he is to have an opinion on this?"

It sounds super pessimistic, I know, but honestly, it feels like these politicians today—regardless of which party they belong to—just don't have the power to change a single thing anymore... It’s not even just about the healthcare system at this point, it’s about basic survival, like how since September the government hasn't even had the funds to cover pensions because they emptied out the pension funds (thank God🙄) in a way that wouldn't fly in any civilized nation. In Germany, I know for a fact that anyone can choose at any time whether they want their entire life savings to go into a pension fund, yet our seniors are sitting there wondering if they'll even see a dime despite working hard and paying their taxes their whole lives...

The US has been completely robbed. And then you have them in Congress messing around with laws to statute-limit those infamous old corporate takeovers... It's pure idiocy and a blatant attempt (which, sadly, looks like it might actually work) to make sure the "important people" never have to answer to the law. Which leads me straight into the next mess, which is that the ruling party or coalition basically gets to hand-pick the constitutional judges—the political interference in the Constitution and our democracy is as obvious as day, and it's definitely not how things work in most other countries in the European Union. One massive problem just keeps dragging another one behind it... Without a totally independent judiciary, you just can't have a true nation governed by law in America, and that's just a fact.

So, back to the healthcare stuff. We're dealing with an overleveraged State, a State where the Secretary of the Treasury is practically rubbing his hands together while we pile on more debt through bonds in America, a State without a real industrial base, and without that, there's no money flowing into the treasury because while he was busy pushing "small business growth," they were suspiciously selling off or gutting major factories... basically, the State has zero income coming in, so the only solution our politicians see is taking on even more debt just to "patch the holes" temporarily. And then you throw healthcare into this mix, which is this massive machine involving private insurance, public coverage, a mountain of employees (and nobody can even fire doctors because there's already such a shortage), and huge pharmaceutical companies... and now... who is actually listening to what the people need regarding healthcare when we can barely afford basic survival and pensions? Personally, I don't think things are going to move in a positive direction anytime soon (sadly...) because health versus the healthcare system is what defines the well-being of any nation...

Sometimes I really wonder why I even bother stressing over this stuff when nothing ever seems to get better, and honestly, it feels worse than ever. But unfortunately for me, since I'm actually a medical student and I have a pretty clear picture of what my future career is going to look like, I can't just look the other way when it comes to social issues. I still believe in humanity, but I really wish it wasn't just expressed through the kindness of individual doctors (again—sadly—just individuals) but through the entire system itself... though I guess that's just my little utopia...

ruggedscout91 said:And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

When you book an appointment, just ask for confirmation of the date they scheduled your screening.

ruggedscout91 said:And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

For all those situations, there's a Medicare inspection team that is REQUIRED to investigate upon report and punish the chosen doctor if necessary. You can even file a complaint online.
And you know why this keeps happening?
Because people take the path of least resistance. Because they're scared to report a doctor and their misconduct.
Because people don't ask for receipts for services rendered (if they don't give me a receipt, I'm not paying the tax).
Because people just don't know their rights as patients.
Because... there are endless possible reasons.
The bottom line is that nobody is going to look out for our rights unless we do it ourselves.

ruggedscout91 said:And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

Look, I know someone. My wife has had several ultrasounds... Of course, she didn't pay a dime—aside from the co-pay (since she doesn't have supplemental insurance).
She also has a gynecologist (private, but works through the state system) where you can get an appointment the next day if it's urgent, and the ultrasound is covered $6.75. Besides, that guy delivered her second baby.
But honestly, maybe all this is just a result of where you live (not trying to be rude). In a place like Varazdin, the kind of situations you're listing are actually pretty rare.

ruggedscout91 said:And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

That’s just not how it works. How would people deal with chronic, lifelong illnesses then?
Take kidney dialysis, for example—that costs $50000 a year, right?
What happens once you burn through those $66667 sitting in your account?
The healthcare system has to be built on solidarity, and that requires the way contributions are collected.

ruggedscout91 said:And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

Why not just opt out of the supplemental coverage?
For the exact reasons I mentioned before...

ruggedscout91 said:And who exactly is supposed to document that you couldn't get an appointment in the public system within thirty days when you need surgery in ten?
Furthermore, who is going to tell dentists to stop bleeding people dry just because they have supplemental insurance?
The same applies to gynecologists, where you see on this forum that the exact same services are charged differently based on $67 price fluctuations and whether or not there’s a receipt.
Where is the oversight in the healthcare system?
There isn't any.
And there isn't any because the system is designed to let patients bleed money constantly for several reasons: paying healthcare taxes, paying for supplemental insurance, regularly buying almost all medications—even those covered by insurance—because sometimes it's cheaper to just buy them at a local pharmacy than to drive to a doctor, pay for gas, and wait for hours. Then there's paying for EVERY SINGLE BREAST ULTRASOUND because I haven't met a single woman who could actually get that exam done using a standard referral. Or paying for every ultrasound related to gynecological issues (prices are roughly similar). Or paying for CT scans (I don't recall anyone being able to get a CT scan regularly because they say the machines at the Split General Hospital are reserved for inpatient use two months in advance). Instead, they just refer you straight to a private clinic without mentioning any benefits.
Because heaven forbid you are sick; you are punished by God and find yourself in this situation:

- They denied me 20% of my paycheck for both months (sick leave due to extensive surgery caused exclusively by the error of my private-social gynecologist back in MA,
- I paid for a private CT scan (which they begrudgingly acknowledged $27 during tax returns), even though I am the sole provider for my family.
- I regularly paid for travel to and from MA, and the State finally recognized those costs,
- Along with several other minor expenses,

A sick person in America who isn't wealthy has zero motivation to seek treatment in a system that looks social on the surface but isn't.
I would rather express my preference for something else, such as:

- That instead of monthly healthcare taxes, the money stays in my savings account. I could have easily saved $0.00 just for this surgery, since I don't use the public system except for preventative checkups, which I pay for privately. The same goes for the dentist.
- That I'm not asked for supplemental insurance premiums for the reasons mentioned above.
- Considering I rarely even use necessary medications (sometimes I just buy Vitamin C), which supports my point.

If they fear certain illnesses so much that we are forced to act proactively by paying into a healthcare system for services that haven't been provided in 15 years—and even when they are provided, they are paid to a private practitioner—then they should realize that people want to know what they are paying for.

So, 15 years of paying $4000 = $0.00
(at the very least). So, 15 years of $400 = $6000 (supplemental insurance)
So, 15 years of 10 x breast ultrasounds = 10 x 250 = $833
So, 15 years of 13 x pelvic ultrasounds = 13 x 250 = $1083.
So, 15 years of dental work: scaling $200.00, 3 fillings x $50 = $50.
Hormone therapy with red clover phytoestrogens, 7 months x $35 = $245.
CT scan of the lower pelvis (without contrast) = $267.

In short, a perfectly healthy person who ended up needing major surgery due to her gynecologist's mistake—to whom she had consistently paid for ultrasounds and visits—has left this healthcare system with over > in 15 years, despite having no medical interventions other than two fillings and one dental cleaning.

205 $0.00.

What happens then to the sick? Or to those patients whom a Doctor actually demands cash from just to perform a surgery—an occurrence that is far too common nowadays?

It all points to one thing: poor organization and an overpriced healthcare system.
I could have kept that money in my own account, using it whenever necessary and choosing my own care based on my family's specific genetics and medical needs. Had I saved what I could over the years, I would be sitting here with $136667. I could have navigated all the misery and stress I endured whenever I had to rely on the healthcare system without a single worry.

It’s definitely not perfect—it’s clearly poorly organized and expensive.
Obviously, we need better streamlining and tighter oversight.
I totally get why you're frustrated, but as patients, we kind of have to change our own behavior to force improvements. How many times have we been the ones handing "tips" or bribes to doctors and nurses?
We basically trained them to act that way, thinking they might treat us better if we grease their palms...

Jacob Fox6 said:Honestly, I’ve been saying this whole time—the healthcare system is broken.👍

I think there might be a little misunderstanding here. 🙂

I totally agree with you. I was just trying to distance myself from all the political stuff... personally, I don't care if we're talking communism or capitalism, the reality for me is that things just aren't working right now. From my perspective, all I want is to be able to see a doctor when I need to without having a nervous breakdown or emptying my bank account. Since everyone is so fed up with our healthcare, I'm definitely leaning towards being angry and calling people out.

That comment from Milinovic about cutting supplemental insurance for people on unemployment is just insane to me. If someone is unemployed, should they immediately be cast aside and treated like trash? His excuse was, "as a husband, I make enough to pay for my wife's supplemental insurance"... man, that statement still makes my blood boil...

I don't even know where to start arguing with that... I won't even try because my blood pressure would probably hit 190 thanks to my social conscience (unfortunately).

The guy is just an idiot... only a complete fool could say something like that. And that brings me back to my point—we’re stopping being a socially conscious nation. When I say "social" (looks like we had a misunderstanding there😉), I don't mean political leanings, I mean a specific discipline within medicine that exists on paper even though its actual practice is super questionable. When a pillar of capitalism—the US—works specifically to change the status quo from non-social medicine, I have to ask: "Who does Milinovic think he is to have an opinion on this?"

It sounds super pessimistic, I know, but honestly, it feels like these politicians today—regardless of which party they belong to—just don't have the power to change a single thing anymore... It’s not even just about the healthcare system at this point, it’s about basic survival, like how since September the government hasn't even had the funds to cover pensions because they emptied out the pension funds (thank God🙄) in a way that wouldn't fly in any civilized nation. In Germany, I know for a fact that anyone can choose at any time whether they want their entire life savings to go into a pension fund, yet our seniors are sitting there wondering if they'll even see a dime despite working hard and paying their taxes their whole lives...

The US has been completely robbed. And then you have them in Congress messing around with laws to statute-limit those infamous old corporate takeovers... It's pure idiocy and a blatant attempt (which, sadly, looks like it might actually work) to make sure the "important people" never have to answer to the law. Which leads me straight into the next mess, which is that the ruling party or coalition basically gets to hand-pick the constitutional judges—the political interference in the Constitution and our democracy is as obvious as day, and it's definitely not how things work in most other countries in the European Union. One massive problem just keeps dragging another one behind it... Without a totally independent judiciary, you just can't have a true nation governed by law in America, and that's just a fact.

So, back to the healthcare stuff. We're dealing with an overleveraged State, a State where the Secretary of the Treasury is practically rubbing his hands together while we pile on more debt through bonds in America, a State without a real industrial base, and without that, there's no money flowing into the treasury because while he was busy pushing "small business growth," they were suspiciously selling off or gutting major factories... basically, the State has zero income coming in, so the only solution our politicians see is taking on even more debt just to "patch the holes" temporarily. And then you throw healthcare into this mix, which is this massive machine involving private insurance, public coverage, a mountain of employees (and nobody can even fire doctors because there's already such a shortage), and huge pharmaceutical companies... and now... who is actually listening to what the people need regarding healthcare when we can barely afford basic survival and pensions? Personally, I don't think things are going to move in a positive direction anytime soon (sadly...) because health versus the healthcare system is what defines the well-being of any nation...

Sometimes I really wonder why I even bother stressing over this stuff when nothing ever seems to get better, and honestly, it feels worse than ever. But unfortunately for me, since I'm actually a medical student and I have a pretty clear picture of what my future career is going to look like, I can't just look the other way when it comes to social issues. I still believe in humanity, but I really wish it wasn't just expressed through the kindness of individual doctors (again—sadly—just individuals) but through the entire system itself... though I guess that's just my little utopia...

I agree with everything said here—to a T.
These politicians are going to finish off the little bit of good we had left.

Jason Nelson64 said:My experience with the US healthcare system has been nothing short of tragic. At 16, I was diagnosed with a prolactinoma—a pituitary adenoma. To confirm the diagnosis from my gynecologist, who refused to jump to conclusions without exploring every possibility, we needed an MRI of the pituitary gland immediately. My blood work showed positive results for sex hormones and a tenfold increase in prolactin levels. We needed that scan right away so I could start treatment and prevent long-term consequences. However, when we called the General Hospital, they told us to call back in a month just to schedule an appointment. I called back a month later, only to be told I might get a slot in November. When I first scheduled, they were telling me FEBRUARY!!! I was stunned, completely in shock at how long I’d have to wait for a diagnostic test that was absolutely essential for starting my therapy. I had no choice but to go private, and it cost me over $667. It turns out the General Hospital shares one of its two MRI machines with a private clinic, which uses it every afternoon from 2 PM to 8 PM, while the public hospital only gets access for four hours in the morning from 8 AM to 12 PM!!! What kind of absurdity is that? A state-run hospital and a private clinic sharing the same equipment, where you wait nine months in the public sector, but if you pay up, you can use that exact same machine within a week!!! I recently read a story about a woman in the same situation; she had to wait months at the General Hospital, whereas the private clinic could see her immediately if she paid. She somehow managed to beg the private clinic to see her for free because she couldn't afford it. But did anyone ask if my family had an extra $667 lying around for this scan??? Of course they found the money; anything for my health.
The second thing eating at me is that our glorious American bureaucracy won't fund medications that aren't on their approved list. The only one that *is* on the list is intolerable and causes severe side effects. During a clinical trial for a different medication, I actually fainted before they could discharge me. The drug dropped my blood pressure so low they couldn't even get a reading, and I had to receive a 2-liter IV infusion. They could barely find a vein to administer it. Despite all that, the department head refused to approve funding for an alternative medication. His logic? "You're young, you'll get used to it eventually." But I have to take this medication for the REST OF MY LIFE, just in varying doses!!! So, for four years now, I've been paying for it myself and importing it from abroad. In the meantime, my doctor moved from public practice to a private practice, and naturally, I followed him because he knows my case better than anyone and can finally give me his full attention. But that costs money, obviously. It’s depressing that if you want quality care, you have to pay extra for it. It’s also heartbreaking how they treat children; there should at least be some concern for them, if not for anyone else. Before I started treatment, I was just a typical 15-year-old who hadn't had a period in a year, and people kept telling me it was normal for my age to have an irregular cycle. It wasn't until they realized it wasn't going to fix itself that I saw a gynecologist, who figured everything out. But those who were supposed to ensure I received proper treatment once the diagnosis was confirmed failed me through sheer negligence, indifference, and total apathy.

I wouldn't call it an absurdity. Look, the block from 8 to 12 is funded by the State, while the other shift is paid for out of your own pocket. Honestly, the State should have enough surplus cash to pay for the staff and the upkeep to run it in the afternoons too. It’s basic logic, really—but unfortunately, most people willfully ignore it because we're still stuck with that old socialist mindset where we've been conditioned to expect everything for nothing, or at least for next to nothing....
And honestly, arguing about the MRI machine itself is a moot point; those things are delicate pieces of tech. The more you run them, the faster they break down, and let's be real, these aren't cheap machines to replace.

Jason Nelson64 said:My experience with the US healthcare system has been nothing short of tragic. At 16, I was diagnosed with a prolactinoma—a pituitary adenoma. To confirm the diagnosis from my gynecologist, who refused to jump to conclusions without exploring every possibility, we needed an MRI of the pituitary gland immediately. My blood work showed positive results for sex hormones and a tenfold increase in prolactin levels. We needed that scan right away so I could start treatment and prevent long-term consequences. However, when we called the General Hospital, they told us to call back in a month just to schedule an appointment. I called back a month later, only to be told I might get a slot in November. When I first scheduled, they were telling me FEBRUARY!!! I was stunned, completely in shock at how long I’d have to wait for a diagnostic test that was absolutely essential for starting my therapy. I had no choice but to go private, and it cost me over $667. It turns out the General Hospital shares one of its two MRI machines with a private clinic, which uses it every afternoon from 2 PM to 8 PM, while the public hospital only gets access for four hours in the morning from 8 AM to 12 PM!!! What kind of absurdity is that? A state-run hospital and a private clinic sharing the same equipment, where you wait nine months in the public sector, but if you pay up, you can use that exact same machine within a week!!! I recently read a story about a woman in the same situation; she had to wait months at the General Hospital, whereas the private clinic could see her immediately if she paid. She somehow managed to beg the private clinic to see her for free because she couldn't afford it. But did anyone ask if my family had an extra $667 lying around for this scan??? Of course they found the money; anything for my health.
The second thing eating at me is that our glorious American bureaucracy won't fund medications that aren't on their approved list. The only one that *is* on the list is intolerable and causes severe side effects. During a clinical trial for a different medication, I actually fainted before they could discharge me. The drug dropped my blood pressure so low they couldn't even get a reading, and I had to receive a 2-liter IV infusion. They could barely find a vein to administer it. Despite all that, the department head refused to approve funding for an alternative medication. His logic? "You're young, you'll get used to it eventually." But I have to take this medication for the REST OF MY LIFE, just in varying doses!!! So, for four years now, I've been paying for it myself and importing it from abroad. In the meantime, my doctor moved from public practice to a private practice, and naturally, I followed him because he knows my case better than anyone and can finally give me his full attention. But that costs money, obviously. It’s depressing that if you want quality care, you have to pay extra for it. It’s also heartbreaking how they treat children; there should at least be some concern for them, if not for anyone else. Before I started treatment, I was just a typical 15-year-old who hadn't had a period in a year, and people kept telling me it was normal for my age to have an irregular cycle. It wasn't until they realized it wasn't going to fix itself that I saw a gynecologist, who figured everything out. But those who were supposed to ensure I received proper treatment once the diagnosis was confirmed failed me through sheer negligence, indifference, and total apathy.

That isn't "sad"—that's called capitalism. As far as I know, if you want a better TV, you pay more than you would for a crappy one, just like pretty much everything else in life.

The bottom line is that money makes the world go 'round, and healthcare isn't some exception to that rule (and I'm not even talking about bribery or corruption here). You invest heavily, you get a lot back, and vice versa.

@ ruggedscout91

Take one of those grandmothers who ends up hospitalized about 20 times over just two or three years—someone who’s been poked and prodded in various clinics maybe 30 or 40 times in that same short window—and get this: she spent her entire life as a homemaker, never having contributed a single cent to the national budget.

So, you feel for her, right? We all do. But at the end of the day, someone has to foot the bill. In the US, an elderly woman in that position wouldn't even get a basic checkup if she couldn't pay out of pocket, so now you’re stuck with a choice—except you aren't really choosing anything, because no political party in this country actually advocates for an Americanized system like that.
That $400 $0.00 amount starts looking very easy to spend when you finally hit those years and find yourself in that same grandmotherly position.
Whether or not you should be paying for someone else? I’ll leave that for you to decide.
Given what I know about how much life can throw at you—and knowing that most people wouldn't be able to cover their own medical bills if they actually needed them—even though I personally hate paying for others, I wouldn't dare switch to the US healthcare system. In that setup, you lose everything you've worked for, and sometimes, you lose your mind even faster.

I honestly feel it’s completely wrong to scrap free supplemental insurance for people who are unemployed. My unemployment benefits, which I was entitled to for six months, have already run out. So, why should I be expected to pay for supplemental coverage out of my own pocket when I have zero income? I live with my parents, and since they’re retired, they’re already struggling with massive utility bills. They don't cover my medical costs, either. I had to pay for my own dental crowns—something neither standard social security nor supplemental insurance even touches. I’ve been paying for private checkups myself, both last year and this year. Even when I was referred to the hospital, I used my official referrals, but it’s pretty obvious you can't get everything done through the standard system. I even dealt with my primary care doctor constantly messing up the codes on my referrals; it happened more than once, so I had to keep going back just to get them fixed.

I just don't understand how they can't see that most of us aren't unemployed because of our own fault. If someone isn't even bothering to look for work, then sure, let them pay for their own supplemental insurance. It's like what Milinovic said—if a woman has a wealthy husband, he should just cover it. But should those of us who have been searching for jobs for months be penalized by having our supplemental coverage cut? When I actually had a job, I paid for my own supplemental coverage, and I think that’s perfectly fair. But for the unemployed, the supplemental insurance really should stay free. Not all of us have wealthy husbands, despite what Milinovic suggests. Besides, my parents aren't legally required to support me since I'm an adult.

Kate Collins67

From what I understand, that US healthcare system you’re talking about is actually undergoing a major overhaul right now. Even that little old lady you mentioned—she’ll eventually be entitled to medical services. It sounds almost unbelievable, even here in the States. I guess this whole process is going to take a few years and will be rolled out gradually, but the end goal is to provide coverage to most Americans who haven't had access until now.

Even before this, though, if that woman showed up, Americans would likely perform all the necessary exams for her; they wouldn't just turn her away without help, even if she didn't have insurance. In the end, she’d just be handed this massive bill that she’d somehow have to find a way to settle. But with Barack Obama's reform, that dynamic is supposed to change, allowing most Americans to finally get insured if they haven't been able to before.

Besides, why not bring up Canada? Most people there have been covered for ages regardless of their employment status, and they have top-tier care too. Then there's Cuba, where healthcare is free, though they are quite poor. And honestly, most European countries ensure their citizens get decent, high-quality care whether they're working or struggling to find a job.

@ mistyjackal842

They haven't exactly proven themselves when it comes to helping people without insurance—it really just boils down to whether some individual feels like being kind or not. So, sometimes they step up, and other times? They just let people die. It’s that simple.

If—and that’s a huge "if"—this healthcare reform currently gaining momentum in the US actually goes through, it’s going to tank their standard of care whether they like it or not. There are way too many moving parts to lay it all out clearly, but I can give you a rough idea: once everyone is covered, the government is going to be on the hook for paying for certain services. And because the government always wants to find the cheapest way out of any deal, they won't want to pay private providers—those guys are too expensive. Instead, the state will start churning out its own doctors or importing them to work for the public sector. These state-employed doctors will end up getting paid way less than anyone in the private sector, and as a direct result, the quality of care in public hospitals will plummet compared to private ones. Naturally, every talented, high-quality doctor will just jump ship to the private sector. When you look at the big picture, overall healthcare services are going to get worse. In the current system, you have both provided and unprovided services—but since those without insurance don't even enter the equation, the "unprovided" services aren't even factored into the quality assessment...
If I keep going, I’m just going to start tripping over my own words.

I can't really draw any fair comparisons between Canada and Cuba because, frankly, I don't know the first thing about how their systems actually function.

But, if we're absolutely forced to make some kind of comparison—and I think we should—I’d say we share way more common ground with Cuba than we ever would with Canada, at least when you look strictly at the financial side of things.

So, why isn't the care in Canada considered worse than it is here in the States? I mean, I haven't heard people complaining much about it. I actually had the chance to chat with an American who lived and worked in Canada for many years. I didn't even prompt him; he just started telling me how top-tier their healthcare services really are. He was in a serious car accident once, and he told me that the level of quality care he received there after the crash... well, I guess he wouldn't have seen anything like that back home in the US.

mistyjackal842 said:I honestly feel it’s completely wrong to scrap free supplemental insurance for people who are unemployed. My unemployment benefits, which I was entitled to for six months, have already run out. So, why should I be expected to pay for supplemental coverage out of my own pocket when I have zero income? I live with my parents, and since they’re retired, they’re already struggling with massive utility bills. They don't cover my medical costs, either. I had to pay for my own dental crowns—something neither standard social security nor supplemental insurance even touches. I’ve been paying for private checkups myself, both last year and this year. Even when I was referred to the hospital, I used my official referrals, but it’s pretty obvious you can't get everything done through the standard system. I even dealt with my primary care doctor constantly messing up the codes on my referrals; it happened more than once, so I had to keep going back just to get them fixed.

I just don't understand how they can't see that most of us aren't unemployed because of our own fault. If someone isn't even bothering to look for work, then sure, let them pay for their own supplemental insurance. It's like what Milinovic said—if a woman has a wealthy husband, he should just cover it. But should those of us who have been searching for jobs for months be penalized by having our supplemental coverage cut? When I actually had a job, I paid for my own supplemental coverage, and I think that’s perfectly fair. But for the unemployed, the supplemental insurance really should stay free. Not all of us have wealthy husbands, despite what Milinovic suggests. Besides, my parents aren't legally required to support me since I'm an adult.

Look, personally, I don't think anyone should even be paying for supplemental coverage—at least not in the way it's set up currently.

The absolute basics of medical care ought to be free for everyone, period. All emergency screenings and tests should be treated equally regardless of who you are. Everything else? That's on you. Whether people want to grab extra coverage, opt for add-ons, or just pay the bill directly for a specific service—whatever works for them—that should be their choice. If you want the bells and whistles, fine, pay for them. But the essentials shouldn't be a luxury.

mistyjackal842 said:So, why isn't the care in Canada considered worse than it is here in the States? I mean, I haven't heard people complaining much about it. I actually had the chance to chat with an American who lived and worked in Canada for many years. I didn't even prompt him; he just started telling me how top-tier their healthcare services really are. He was in a serious car accident once, and he told me that the level of quality care he received there after the crash... well, I guess he wouldn't have seen anything like that back home in the US.

Look, those are just anecdotes—hearsay, really. They aren't actual, measurable indicators of medical service quality.
The guy didn't experience a car accident here, nor did he receive any kind of emergency assistance in that specific way locally, so how can he possibly compare "what if" scenarios? It's pure speculation.
Again, let me be clear: I have absolutely no idea how the Canadian system actually operates—how much people pay into it, what's included in the coverage, what isn't, or even which specific groups are covered by insurance and which aren't...

Isn't it just obvious that the healthcare system in Canada is better than ours? This guy wasn't even born in Canada. He spent a huge chunk of his life living here in the States and was covered by insurance, so... I guess he actually has some ground to stand on when making that comparison. Around here, it feels like hospital equipment is constantly breaking down. And even if you have supplemental insurance that you pay for out of your own pocket, if a machine is busted and they have no clue when it’ll be fixed, you’re stuck paying for a private scan yourself. I know about how Medicare handles cost reimbursements, but from what I've heard, even at places like Medikol, if you try to go in with a referral for an MRI, you could be waiting months—even if you're paying for that extra coverage. But, if you just pay for the full exam upfront without a referral, you can sometimes get it done within the same week. I haven't had to deal with that personally, but I've heard it from people who've booked appointments at Medikol. I suspect the same probably goes for other private clinics that take Medicare.

mistyjackal842 said:Isn't it just obvious that the healthcare system in Canada is better than ours? This guy wasn't even born in Canada. He spent a huge chunk of his life living here in the States and was covered by insurance, so... I guess he actually has some ground to stand on when making that comparison. Around here, it feels like hospital equipment is constantly breaking down. And even if you have supplemental insurance that you pay for out of your own pocket, if a machine is busted and they have no clue when it’ll be fixed, you’re stuck paying for a private scan yourself. I know about how Medicare handles cost reimbursements, but from what I've heard, even at places like Medikol, if you try to go in with a referral for an MRI, you could be waiting months—even if you're paying for that extra coverage. But, if you just pay for the full exam upfront without a referral, you can sometimes get it done within the same week. I haven't had to deal with that personally, but I've heard it from people who've booked appointments at Medikol. I suspect the same probably goes for other private clinics that take Medicare.

And how exactly does that tie into providing post-accident services?

Look, I can't sit here and lecture anyone about how the healthcare system works in Canada—I haven't been there, I haven't done the deep dive research, I just don't know.
But if we make a logical assumption that it’s better than what we have here, then let's also make a logical assumption that they either allocate way more money to healthcare than our government does—whether through individual out-of-pocket costs or state funding at the expense of someone else—or maybe they operate on a principle where patients can't just demand whatever tests they want. Maybe tests are only performed based on strict medical necessity, and doctors who just churn out referrals without any actual medical justification get slapped with penalties.
That right there is one way you could save a massive amount of money. Sure, patients would be pissed off at first because they'd think we're just ripping them off, but wouldn't that eventually lead to a much more functional, cost-effective system with way fewer mistakes and oversights?