Directors who totally missed the mark

I haven't read everything yet, but did anyone else think about Sydney Pollack?
Pollack (rest his soul) directed a string of films from Out of Africa onward that—if Hollywood hadn't treated him with such unearned reverence—could have easily cruised straight to a Golden Raspberry nomination (Havana Nights-Sabrina-The Way We Were-The Interpreter). Except for The Firm, which was just mediocre at best.

And what about Richard Donner? Ever since Lethal Weapon 4, it’s been a total downward spiral (Timeline and 16 Blocks). It’s like he just forgot how to direct; a case of professional amnesia, really.

Don't even get me started on Badham, Friedkin, or McTiernan. Just a disaster.

I'm with anyone who says Lucas has been in a slump since Star Wars. At this point, I don't even see him as a director anymore—just the guy running ILM who makes flashy little movies for kids' birthday parties. Overrated.

Laura Palmer25 said:I haven't read everything yet, but did anyone else think about Sydney Pollack?
Pollack (rest his soul) directed a string of films from Out of Africa onward that—if Hollywood hadn't treated him with such unearned reverence—could have easily cruised straight to a Golden Raspberry nomination (Havana Nights-Sabrina-The Way We Were-The Interpreter). Except for The Firm, which was just mediocre at best.

And what about Richard Donner? Ever since Lethal Weapon 4, it’s been a total downward spiral (Timeline and 16 Blocks). It’s like he just forgot how to direct; a case of professional amnesia, really.

Don't even get me started on Badham, Friedkin, or McTiernan. Just a disaster.

I'm with anyone who says Lucas has been in a slump since Star Wars. At this point, I don't even see him as a director anymore—just the guy running ILM who makes flashy little movies for kids' birthday parties. Overrated.

He doesn't actually need profound insight or any particular artistic depth—he built the Star Wars franchise, and for many, that’s the end of the conversation. Honestly, what more could you ask for? I would much rather see these "prestige" directors attempt to capture lightning in a bottle the way he did, rather than watching them churn out mediocre fare or hit a single peak only to slide into a long, disappointing decline.

I’m not entirely certain if anyone else has brought him up, but in my estimation, John Schlesinger has transitioned quite seamlessly from Midnight Cowboy to being the next big thing.

velvetcrane57 said:He doesn't actually need profound insight or any particular artistic depth—he built the Star Wars franchise, and for many, that’s the end of the conversation. Honestly, what more could you ask for? I would much rather see these "prestige" directors attempt to capture lightning in a bottle the way he did, rather than watching them churn out mediocre fare or hit a single peak only to slide into a long, disappointing decline.

I'm not trying to downplay Star Wars—which, in my opinion, basically launched modern Hollywood and was the defining movie of my childhood and half the world's. I'm just saying you have to take Lucas as a director with a grain of salt. He's a craftsman, nothing more, and he just happened to strike gold once, much like anyone else.🤷

Milos Forman—I can't recall the last time he delivered a truly great film, one that even remotely approaches the caliber of *Easy Rider* or *One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest*.

I suspect some people are going to take issue with this, primarily because Milos doesn't even churn out movies that often. He’s made about ten films since leaving Europe, and if we assume maybe five of them were hits with general audiences—distributed fairly evenly across his career—I don't see any massive decline in quality. I’ve watched a few of his earlier European works, but those are fundamentally different types of movies compared to his later stuff, so comparing them is pretty pointless. In those early films, you can really see his fascination with Western culture, which shows up most clearly in the musical scores he chose.
Don't mistake this for me being a Forman apologist; my actual take is that he was never all that groundbreaking to begin with. When he arrived in the States, he essentially stumbled onto a great foundation with Ken Kesey's work and instantly built a massive reputation thanks to a film that was hard to mess up given such a strong source material (even if the book and the movie differ quite a bit). He basically rode that reputation to make another two or three music-centric projects (*Amadeus*, *Ragtime*) along with *Walk the Line*, *Goya*, and *Man on the Moon*. So, in my view, there hasn't been much of a downward slide.

Michael Cimino 😁

I suppose I might not even include him in this particular circle of directors, but "The Deer Hunter" is one of those films that leaves you wondering how a filmmaker of his caliber could possibly be allowed to miss the mark so completely.

briskhound2 said:It’s basically a mashup of Bourne and Mr. & Mrs. Smith... pretty mid if you ask me. I haven't sat through it myself, but a buddy recommended it mostly because he can't get over how Clive Owen keeps acting like he’s still salty about missing out on the Bond role by making movies that feel like a cheap imitation of 007...

P.S. It’s kind of wild seeing guys like William Friedkin—you know, the guy behind *The French Connection* and *The Exorcist*—ending up directing episodes of *CSI*. And then there's John Badham, who went from directing *WarGames* and *Drop Zone* straight into TV series directing... honestly, it's a bit tragic...

Badhem actually started out in TV. And don't act like he hasn't done films—*Blue Thunder* and *Drop Zone* were just the beginning. Don't forget *Short Circuit* and *Stakeout* either... 🙄

neonhound6 said:Michael Cimino 😁

I suppose I might not even include him in this particular circle of directors, but "The Deer Hunter" is one of those films that leaves you wondering how a filmmaker of his caliber could possibly be allowed to miss the mark so completely.

And it’s not just The Deer Hunter. Dragon Tales is actually great, and honestly, I love Heaven's Gate—call it what you want, I don't care.

Cimino really flopped for me with The Sicilian. It’s the kind of nonsense you only make if you have zero restraint.😲

I haven't seen much else of his.

briskhound2 said:Yeah, true, but the legends of cinema basically surrendered to the medium. I'm not hating on it—I mean, even Tarantino has played into this trend—but when I think about how *The Fugitive* is one of my all-time favorites, and then you see the director basically scraping by on mediocre TV shows nowadays... it just feels wrong. And Friedkin? I don't know... maybe he was doing Petersen a favor or maybe he just can't land a real gig anymore...

Well, just as bad movies exist, bad series exist too. We don't dismiss the entire medium of cinema just because of a few flops, so we shouldn't judge TV directing the same way. Just look at the production quality of shows like *Lost*, *Damages*, *Deadwood*, or *Rome*.

Michael Ortiz68 said:A THX 1183? Honestly, one of the most impactful dystopian sci-fi pieces out there. Highly recommend it to everyone, not just the Lucas and Star Wars crowd.

👍

By the way, I think American Graffiti is such a great, nostalgic flick. Lucas wasn't always the "questionable" director people make him out to be today... Star Wars was basically his meteoric rise and then his massive crash. Wish I’d caught this sooner...

Jerry Martin19 said:👍

By the way, I think American Graffiti is such a great, nostalgic flick. Lucas wasn't always the "questionable" director people make him out to be today... Star Wars was basically his meteoric rise and then his massive crash. Wish I’d caught this sooner...

Well, would you look at that!
I had completely forgotten about American Graffiti...😢 An excellent film,
It really is a pity Lucas didn't utilize his talent more frequently. He left himself a directorial "gap" of twenty-two years (1977-1999). Quite unfortunate.

Laura Palmer25 said:And it’s not just The Deer Hunter. Dragon Tales is actually great, and honestly, I love Heaven's Gate—call it what you want, I don't care.

Cimino really flopped for me with The Sicilian. It’s the kind of nonsense you only make if you have zero restraint.😲

I haven't seen much else of his.

Heaven's Gate is a total masterpiece. Cimino definitely has three or four top-tier films under his belt!

northerncrane4 said:Badhem actually started out in TV. And don't act like he hasn't done films—*Blue Thunder* and *Drop Zone* were just the beginning. Don't forget *Short Circuit* and *Stakeout* either... 🙄

To me, Badham is a solid B-movie guy—nothing wrong with that—but he’s alright. Back in the day, he made stuff that people actually wanted to see, you know? Real box-office hits that didn't try too hard to be high art or anything. For me, "Stakeout" and "Another Stakeout" are basically the peak of what a good action comedy should be, and "Bird on a Wire" isn't far off from that level. I'd put him in the same bracket as Peter Hyams... except Hyams actually showed some ambition back in the day (like with *Capricorn One*) and had some real quality, whereas now he can barely scrape together a decent flick...

David Price5 said:Well, just as bad movies exist, bad series exist too. We don't dismiss the entire medium of cinema just because of a few flops, so we shouldn't judge TV directing the same way. Just look at the production quality of shows like *Lost*, *Damages*, *Deadwood*, or *Rome*.

I’m not really trashing it, but it feels like a bit of a step backward for people who actually care about genre distinctions. You kind of reminded me of Walter Hill—he’s not always my cup of tea when it comes to standard films, but his TV work is top-tier, even though I don't usually go for Westerns myself...

briskhound2 said:I’m not really trashing it, but it feels like a bit of a step backward for people who actually care about genre distinctions. You kind of reminded me of Walter Hill—he’s not always my cup of tea when it comes to standard films, but his TV work is top-tier, even though I don't usually go for Westerns myself...

It isn't a step backward. Some episodes have budgets comparable to feature films. The medium has evolved, but quality direction remains the same.

1. Peter Bogdanovich was essentially the golden boy of the early seventies; his work on *The Last Picture Show* served as one of the bedrock pillars for New Hollywood. Since then, however, he has largely vanished from the cultural conversation.

2. Philip Kaufman represented such immense promise during the seventies and early eighties, yet these days he seems relegated to directing mid-tier crime procedurals and unremarkable dramas.

3. Walter Hill—the man behind *The Driver*, *The Warriors*, and *The Long Good Friday*... though I know some folks on this board have dismissed *The Warriors* as trash, but considering some people have leveled similar critiques at Scorsese, Kubrick, or Godard, I’d prefer not to dwell on those opinions.

4. Abel Ferrara stands out as perhaps the most skilled practitioner to emerge from the era of learning the craft under someone like Corman; he carries that Scorsese-esque influence, yet there is a certain irony in the fact that if you spend enough time being told you're a genius, you might just end up following the Ferrara trajectory.

5. John Landis was effectively the architect of subversive American comedy in the early eighties, but more recently, his filmography includes projects like *Kennedy's Children*—frankly, any commentary on his recent output feels redundant.

6. John Waters, often hailed by enthusiasts as the king of bad taste and a pioneer of unapologetic cult cinema, seems to have pivoted toward a more politically correct sensibility lately; even the crown has lost its luster.

7. Jonathan Demme used to be a trendsetter with films like *Caged Heat* or *Crazy Mama*, but nowadays, he appears to be merely following the trends others set.

8. Michael Mann has a contingent of cinephiles who argue his peak was reached back in the eighties with *Thief* and *Manhunter*. It isn't an entirely baseless claim, given that while *The Last of the Mohicans* and *Heat* were major achievements, films like *Ali* and *Collateral* feel like mere repetitions of his established stylistic and thematic tropes—competent enough, certainly, but creatively redundant.

9. William Friedkin is another casualty of the New Hollywood era, an immensely talented director who seems to have wandered off into the wilderness of creative irrelevance.

10. Brian De Palma remains the only true postmodernist in contemporary American cinema. He has never been fully understood or accorded the respect he deserves, and lately, he seems to have fallen into the trap of overindulgent stylistic gimmicks that play too heavily on his own cinematic legacy.

11. Francis Ford Coppola has been creatively stagnant since *Apocalypse Now*; *Rumble Fish* and *The Godfather Part III* were little more than brief attempts at keeping the flame alive.

12. Roman Polanski—had he directed *Oliver Twist* during his *Cul-de-sac*, *Repulsion*, or *Rosemary's Baby* era, we might be discussing a masterpiece of the decade; instead, it serves as a textbook example of wasted potential, and even *The Pianist* feels somewhat overpraised.

briskhound2 said:To me, Badham is a solid B-movie guy—nothing wrong with that—but he’s alright. Back in the day, he made stuff that people actually wanted to see, you know? Real box-office hits that didn't try too hard to be high art or anything. For me, "Stakeout" and "Another Stakeout" are basically the peak of what a good action comedy should be, and "Bird on a Wire" isn't far off from that level. I'd put him in the same bracket as Peter Hyams... except Hyams actually showed some ambition back in the day (like with *Capricorn One*) and had some real quality, whereas now he can barely scrape together a decent flick...

I’m not sure how you interpreted this thread, but the point was to discuss directors who actually meant something to the industry before they essentially dried up. This isn't about those endless Hollywood hacks—the ones where you might find two or three movies you thought were cool back when you were a kid.

And, by the way—modern TV production is significantly bolder and more revolutionary than anything coming out of theaters right now. I don't recall anything approaching the quality of "Deadwood" hitting the big screen in ages.

northerncrane4 said:I’m not sure how you interpreted this thread, but the point was to discuss directors who actually meant something to the industry before they essentially dried up. This isn't about those endless Hollywood hacks—the ones where you might find two or three movies you thought were cool back when you were a kid.

And, by the way—modern TV production is significantly bolder and more revolutionary than anything coming out of theaters right now. I don't recall anything approaching the quality of "Deadwood" hitting the big screen in ages.

Look, I don't know... I mean, Don Donen was a respected director—at least he was, if nothing else from a purely financial standpoint—and even today, some polls still label him as "cult," which isn't exactly nothing. His work holds up to critical scrutiny too; *American Flyers* is a great drama, and *War Games* sits right at the top of those techno-thrillers from back before that genre even had a formal name... much like Donen himself. And I won't even get started on *Saturday Night Fever*, which is still held in high regard. In my book, Donen is a director who actually left a mark and meant something to the industry, regardless of whether he ever officially cracked the A-list. I mean, Michael Bay might be the king of flashy, big-budget blockbusters these days, but you rarely see his stuff get even a passing grade from critics, let alone an auteur credit...

briskhound2 said:Look, I don't know... I mean, Don Donen was a respected director—at least he was, if nothing else from a purely financial standpoint—and even today, some polls still label him as "cult," which isn't exactly nothing. His work holds up to critical scrutiny too; *American Flyers* is a great drama, and *War Games* sits right at the top of those techno-thrillers from back before that genre even had a formal name... much like Donen himself. And I won't even get started on *Saturday Night Fever*, which is still held in high regard. In my book, Donen is a director who actually left a mark and meant something to the industry, regardless of whether he ever officially cracked the A-list. I mean, Michael Bay might be the king of flashy, big-budget blockbusters these days, but you rarely see his stuff get even a passing grade from critics, let alone an auteur credit...

Like I said—just another hack Hollywood craftsman, one of thousands. Always has been, always will be. Not a single significant cinematic auteur in the bunch. Now that he's older, he doesn't have the stamina for actual film production anymore, so he just churns out filler for TV. ☕