Directors who totally missed the mark

wiredbison82 said:If we look at the New Hollywood crowd, the only ones who remained consistently grounded during their careers were Robert Altman and Brian De Palma, as far as one can recall today.

The rest were truly "crazy at 3 PM."

I’m all for consistency, but the last De Palma flick I caught (Black Dahlia) was just a sluggish, missed attempt at adapting a hard-boiled crime story. Curtis Hanson made one of the best films of that entire decade about ten years earlier and totally outshined his veteran colleague. I don't know what happened; De Palma used to be such a master storyteller. This one had mediocre acting and felt rhythmically off... sure, there were some "Hitchcockian" touches (like that rope scene), plus those deep subjective shots and other little nods to De Palma's signature style, but overall, "Black Dahlia" turned out to be a pretty raw and unpalatable mess. It seems even De Palma is becoming a bit of a lost, erratic director.🤷

I won't bring up Altman right now since he's passed away. So, among the living, there’s almost nobody left. Maybe Scorsese—whom I usually give a pass—should actually consider retirement. I saw Shutter Island in theaters and kept telling myself it was good and tense, but thinking about rewatching it now... honestly, no thanks. I think I'd find it boring. I’d much rather watch Street of Evil, Alice, or Taxi Driver for the tenth time if I had to.

And don't even get me started on Orson's kid. Where did he disappear to? I was watching The Sopranos recently and saw him playing some psychologist! Good grief, Petra, is it really that bad...

There are plenty of gems to be found here...

Looking back, even the protagonists from those once-powerful New German films didn't exactly find much success in life.

Mark Wood79 said:I’m all for consistency, but the last De Palma flick I caught (Black Dahlia) was just a sluggish, missed attempt at adapting a hard-boiled crime story. Curtis Hanson made one of the best films of that entire decade about ten years earlier and totally outshined his veteran colleague. I don't know what happened; De Palma used to be such a master storyteller. This one had mediocre acting and felt rhythmically off... sure, there were some "Hitchcockian" touches (like that rope scene), plus those deep subjective shots and other little nods to De Palma's signature style, but overall, "Black Dahlia" turned out to be a pretty raw and unpalatable mess. It seems even De Palma is becoming a bit of a lost, erratic director.🤷

I won't bring up Altman right now since he's passed away. So, among the living, there’s almost nobody left. Maybe Scorsese—whom I usually give a pass—should actually consider retirement. I saw Shutter Island in theaters and kept telling myself it was good and tense, but thinking about rewatching it now... honestly, no thanks. I think I'd find it boring. I’d much rather watch Street of Evil, Alice, or Taxi Driver for the tenth time if I had to.

And don't even get me started on Orson's kid. Where did he disappear to? I was watching The Sopranos recently and saw him playing some psychologist! Good grief, Petra, is it really that bad...

There are plenty of gems to be found here...

Looking back, even the protagonists from those once-powerful New German films didn't exactly find much success in life.

Sidney Lumet.

Spike Jonze.

Now that I think about it, even the protagonists from those once-promising German films never really managed to make anything of themselves in life.

And who are we even talking about here? Tykwer, Hirschbiegel?

goldenhound32 said:Sidney Lumet.

Spike Jonze.

Now that I think about it, even the protagonists from those once-promising German films never really managed to make anything of themselves in life.

And who are we even talking about here? Tykwer, Hirschbiegel?

Sidney Lumet is still out there making movies, and they are pretty high quality, too. Massive respect to him!

So, Fincher leaked it? That theory is basically built on nothing more than Benjamin Button and some hypothetical movies he hasn't even made yet. Give me a break.

ruggedjackal46 said:So, Fincher leaked it? That theory is basically built on nothing more than Benjamin Button and some hypothetical movies he hasn't even made yet. Give me a break.

I don't think Fincher is on the decline at all; I'd say he's actually on the rise.
After a somewhat weak Panic Room,
he went on to make Zodiac and Button,
which I think were some of the absolute best films of the last decade.👍☕

Mark Wood79 said:I’m all for consistency, but the last De Palma flick I caught (Black Dahlia) was just a sluggish, missed attempt at adapting a hard-boiled crime story. Curtis Hanson made one of the best films of that entire decade about ten years earlier and totally outshined his veteran colleague. I don't know what happened; De Palma used to be such a master storyteller. This one had mediocre acting and felt rhythmically off... sure, there were some "Hitchcockian" touches (like that rope scene), plus those deep subjective shots and other little nods to De Palma's signature style, but overall, "Black Dahlia" turned out to be a pretty raw and unpalatable mess. It seems even De Palma is becoming a bit of a lost, erratic director.🤷

I won't bring up Altman right now since he's passed away. So, among the living, there’s almost nobody left. Maybe Scorsese—whom I usually give a pass—should actually consider retirement. I saw Shutter Island in theaters and kept telling myself it was good and tense, but thinking about rewatching it now... honestly, no thanks. I think I'd find it boring. I’d much rather watch Street of Evil, Alice, or Taxi Driver for the tenth time if I had to.

And don't even get me started on Orson's kid. Where did he disappear to? I was watching The Sopranos recently and saw him playing some psychologist! Good grief, Petra, is it really that bad...

There are plenty of gems to be found here...

Looking back, even the protagonists from those once-powerful New German films didn't exactly find much success in life.

Black Dahlia is definitely a crime film, but when a man of 67—someone of an advanced age, practically a retiree by any legal standard on this planet—shoots something like Redacted, a punkish film stuffed with YouTube clips, that isn't madness. In my view, it's courage and vision.

Sure, Curtis Hanson outdid him, and convincingly so, but De Palma outdid the entire generation of loud, self-important young directors born into the Facebook era by making a film that, while far from a masterpiece, still carries the hallmarks of a great director. A man who clearly hasn't grown old or faded away.

Regarding the representatives of that new German cinema, I find Herzog's Bad Lieutenant to be a perfectly okay film. It's certainly less pretentious than Ferrari's.

wiredbison82 said:Black Dahlia is definitely a crime film, but when a man of 67—someone of an advanced age, practically a retiree by any legal standard on this planet—shoots something like Redacted, a punkish film stuffed with YouTube clips, that isn't madness. In my view, it's courage and vision.

Sure, Curtis Hanson outdid him, and convincingly so, but De Palma outdid the entire generation of loud, self-important young directors born into the Facebook era by making a film that, while far from a masterpiece, still carries the hallmarks of a great director. A man who clearly hasn't grown old or faded away.

Regarding the representatives of that new German cinema, I find Herzog's Bad Lieutenant to be a perfectly okay film. It's certainly less pretentious than Ferrari's.

And where, precisely, does one find that pretentiousness in Ferrari's film?

goldenhound32 said:And where, precisely, does one find that pretentiousness in Ferrari's film?

I find Ferrari's entire body of work to be somewhat pretentious; he seems unable to shake off this "mini-Scorsese" complex.

"Bad Lieutenant" feels intentionally, pretentiously raw, almost as if to ensure the protagonist's catharsis and redemption remain as transparent as possible.

That said, it's still a solid movie. Sometimes, a bit of pretension is actually justified.

ruggedjackal46 said:So, Fincher leaked it? That theory is basically built on nothing more than Benjamin Button and some hypothetical movies he hasn't even made yet. Give me a break.

Let's be real here, we aren't going to pretend otherwise—the script for The Social Network has been out for ages, and honestly, it’s not even remotely close to the old Fincher vibe. Then you have this new hype job, which makes me wonder, good grief, what are we actually doing? A movie about little brat Zuckerberg feat. a newly enlightened Hollywood sweetheart version of Fincher, backed with Kanye West's new single, 'Power." 😕

I could go on forever about Benjamin Button, but if you ask me, there is absolutely nothing
Fincher-esque about it, IMHO. To paraphrase briskfalcon45 (just so there's no confusion): 'Well, he's finally sold out.' Or if you listen to xavierkat talking about Nolan: 'It's as if he's lost his sense of direction and his compass, just surrendering to the masses and simplifying himself so everyone can digest him and love him.' The last time Fincher truly felt like himself was with Zodiac, and since then, he's basically gone off the radar. Instead of maturing as a director, it feels like he's just started to rot.

As for this remake of an already mediocre film, everything has already been said, so I don't see why he even bothered. 🤷

Christian Taylor3 said:Let's be real here, we aren't going to pretend otherwise—the script for The Social Network has been out for ages, and honestly, it’s not even remotely close to the old Fincher vibe. Then you have this new hype job, which makes me wonder, good grief, what are we actually doing? A movie about little brat Zuckerberg feat. a newly enlightened Hollywood sweetheart version of Fincher, backed with Kanye West's new single, 'Power." 😕

I could go on forever about Benjamin Button, but if you ask me, there is absolutely nothing
Fincher-esque about it, IMHO. To paraphrase briskfalcon45 (just so there's no confusion): 'Well, he's finally sold out.' Or if you listen to xavierkat talking about Nolan: 'It's as if he's lost his sense of direction and his compass, just surrendering to the masses and simplifying himself so everyone can digest him and love him.' The last time Fincher truly felt like himself was with Zodiac, and since then, he's basically gone off the radar. Instead of maturing as a director, it feels like he's just started to rot.

As for this remake of an already mediocre film, everything has already been said, so I don't see why he even bothered. 🤷

Perhaps he believes that, much like Scorsese, an Oscar for Best Picture will simply fall into his lap once this remake is finished.🙂

Here is a track for that "passable" era before things went south. 🙂
King Missile - Martin Scorsese

They actually stripped out about 20 instances of the F-word from this version. 🙂

Among the newer directors, M. Night Shyamalan has really hit a slump. From what I’ve been reading in the reviews, he completely tanked with The Last Airbender—it sitting at a measly 8% on RT.

Lisa Ross65 said:Among the newer directors, M. Night Shyamalan has really hit a slump. From what I’ve been reading in the reviews, he completely tanked with The Last Airbender—it sitting at a measly 8% on RT.

That’s old news; Shyamalan's slide started right after Unbreakable.

Christian Taylor3 said:Let's be real here, we aren't going to pretend otherwise—the script for The Social Network has been out for ages, and honestly, it’s not even remotely close to the old Fincher vibe. Then you have this new hype job, which makes me wonder, good grief, what are we actually doing? A movie about little brat Zuckerberg feat. a newly enlightened Hollywood sweetheart version of Fincher, backed with Kanye West's new single, 'Power." 😕

I could go on forever about Benjamin Button, but if you ask me, there is absolutely nothing
Fincher-esque about it, IMHO. To paraphrase briskfalcon45 (just so there's no confusion): 'Well, he's finally sold out.' Or if you listen to xavierkat talking about Nolan: 'It's as if he's lost his sense of direction and his compass, just surrendering to the masses and simplifying himself so everyone can digest him and love him.' The last time Fincher truly felt like himself was with Zodiac, and since then, he's basically gone off the radar. Instead of maturing as a director, it feels like he's just started to rot.

As for this remake of an already mediocre film, everything has already been said, so I don't see why he even bothered. 🤷

As if the "Panic Room" script was anything special—Fincher just delivered another stellar chamber thriller and pushed the boundaries of CGI once again. Honestly, the only real grievance one can have with Fincher is that he missed out on an Oscar for "Benjamin Button," which remains a perfectly fine film—perhaps even because of its flaws—and sits well above the quality of the other nominees that year. Sure, there are some screenwriting issues, specifically regarding the formulaic plot structure, but is there actually any collection of scripts in Hollywood today approaching the caliber of "Se7en" or "Gamma" that Fincher would pass up just to work with Justin Timberlake? 🤷

You really shouldn't lump De Palma's Dalija in with the conspiracy thrillers—even if they share a similar vibe, they're totally different movies...
David Fincher is still playing in a league of his own, too!

northerncrane4 said:As if the "Panic Room" script was anything special—Fincher just delivered another stellar chamber thriller and pushed the boundaries of CGI once again. Honestly, the only real grievance one can have with Fincher is that he missed out on an Oscar for "Benjamin Button," which remains a perfectly fine film—perhaps even because of its flaws—and sits well above the quality of the other nominees that year. Sure, there are some screenwriting issues, specifically regarding the formulaic plot structure, but is there actually any collection of scripts in Hollywood today approaching the caliber of "Se7en" or "Gamma" that Fincher would pass up just to work with Justin Timberlake? 🤷

Hey, MrBeast, I guess you think... Panic Room Was it any good? I don't think so. I guess I knew.. 😢

Man, honestly, now that I've had some time to sit with it—it’s actually an excellent movie.🙂😍

Anyway, changing the subject—we were talking about Curtis Hanson earlier... I think he's the one. It leaked....
Since those movies were actually pretty great: I’ve been thinking about L.A. Confidential and Wonder Boys lately. Both are such solid picks. I guess they both just hit that sweet spot for me.,
I guess they followed up: I was thinking about 8 Mile and In Her Shoes today. Maybe I’m just in a certain mood, but they both seem to stick in my mind for different reasons..🤮

briskfalcon45 said:Hey, MrBeast, I guess you think... Panic Room Was it any good? I don't think so. I guess I knew.. 😢

Man, honestly, now that I've had some time to sit with it—it’s actually an excellent movie.🙂😍

Anyway, changing the subject—we were talking about Curtis Hanson earlier... I think he's the one. It leaked....
Since those movies were actually pretty great: I’ve been thinking about L.A. Confidential and Wonder Boys lately. Both are such solid picks. I guess they both just hit that sweet spot for me.,
I guess they followed up: I was thinking about 8 Mile and In Her Shoes today. Maybe I’m just in a certain mood, but they both seem to stick in my mind for different reasons..🤮

Panic Room is great; honestly, anyone who can pull a decent performance out of Kristen Stewart deserves an Oscar for their entire career.

crimsontrucker4 said:Panic Room is great; honestly, anyone who can pull a decent performance out of Kristen Stewart deserves an Oscar for their entire career.

😂

I watched something recently. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic, but I still think about Twilight & New Moon sometimes. It’s funny how much people talk about them now. & Twilight & New Moon🙈

Honestly, man, I don't know. It feels like she's acting like she's high or something. Maybe it's just me, though.

When Robert Pattinson starts laying on the charm like that, it’s almost like... I really appreciate that, thank you!,
I guess her expression really suits him.
Anyway... thanks. I guess we should probably just order some pizza? I'm feeling pretty hungry.

🙂

northerncrane4 said:As if the "Panic Room" script was anything special—Fincher just delivered another stellar chamber thriller and pushed the boundaries of CGI once again. Honestly, the only real grievance one can have with Fincher is that he missed out on an Oscar for "Benjamin Button," which remains a perfectly fine film—perhaps even because of its flaws—and sits well above the quality of the other nominees that year. Sure, there are some screenwriting issues, specifically regarding the formulaic plot structure, but is there actually any collection of scripts in Hollywood today approaching the caliber of "Se7en" or "Gamma" that Fincher would pass up just to work with Justin Timberlake? 🤷

Smoogj, Smoogj, you really think Panic Room is that great of a Fincher movie? Personally, I don't see it that way, man, man.

Everything you actually have against Fincher is just that he didn't win an Oscar for "Benjamin Button," which is a perfectly fine film regardless—or maybe because of that—and honestly sits way above the average of the other nominees that year.

Honestly, I’d probably jump off a building if he had actually snagged an Oscar for Benjamin Button. Luckily for him, he didn't (not even for directing). There's no connection to an Oscar here, nor is Button a bad movie. So, what exactly is my issue with Fincher? It’s just not that dark and stylish Fincher vibe; it leans too hard into melodrama. It feels a bit sugary, regardless of the premise, and frankly, it feels like Fincher kind of messed it up.

There are some flaws in the writing, mainly regarding the formulaic structure of the story, but is there really any collection of scripts in Hollywood today approaching the quality of "Se7en" or "Game" that Fincher is turning down just so he can work with Justin Timberlake? 🤷

Sure, they exist, though maybe not in massive quantities. Anyway, ScriptShadow basically cataloged and reviewed all of them. He even put up download links (yeah, I’m talking about those specific scripts/projects that Fincher eventually walked away from. And for what purpose, exactly? 🤣).

Now we just wait for The Social Network. 🙂

p.s. Word on the street is that Ridley Scott handed this project over to Fincher. 😬

wiredbison82 said:Black Dahlia is definitely a crime film, but when a man of 67—someone of an advanced age, practically a retiree by any legal standard on this planet—shoots something like Redacted, a punkish film stuffed with YouTube clips, that isn't madness. In my view, it's courage and vision.

Sure, Curtis Hanson outdid him, and convincingly so, but De Palma outdid the entire generation of loud, self-important young directors born into the Facebook era by making a film that, while far from a masterpiece, still carries the hallmarks of a great director. A man who clearly hasn't grown old or faded away.

Regarding the representatives of that new German cinema, I find Herzog's Bad Lieutenant to be a perfectly okay film. It's certainly less pretentious than Ferrari's.

I haven't seen "Redacted" yet, but since you're speaking so highly of it, I want to check it out. Regarding De Palma's courage and vision, you can see it clearly even in those excellent late-'60s films I mentioned in my last post. Ultimately, De Palma is a true legend and one of my top five favorite New Hollywood names, though that doesn't mean he's beyond criticism.

When it comes to New Hollywood figures in general, they basically did their job for the next several decades. No sane person should expect them to save the scene in the 21st century, but some have fallen so spectacularly that you can't help but wonder what happened. Of course, compared to the massive collapses we've seen, De Palma is just a little kid.