Standard of living is tanking

darkorca52 said:Why is there this constant narrative that public sector wages outpace the private sector, when 90 percent of those employees are working for $1667 or even less
? Which private company actually pays salaries that low?

Honestly, I was just thinking about writing something almost exactly like that! I'm a government employee myself, and my paycheck is actually under $1667 (not that it's my fault, right?) ☕ It feels like even the ladies working at the local Target might be pulling in more than me, though realistically, the level of work, the responsibility, and the specialized knowledge involved isn't really comparable—and hey, I’m totally happy for them if they’re making more, I truly am!

rapidnomad322 said:Honestly, I was just thinking about writing something almost exactly like that! I'm a government employee myself, and my paycheck is actually under $1667 (not that it's my fault, right?) ☕ It feels like even the ladies working at the local Target might be pulling in more than me, though realistically, the level of work, the responsibility, and the specialized knowledge involved isn't really comparable—and hey, I’m totally happy for them if they’re making more, I truly am!

Look at it from this perspective:

Take the work of a cashier at a place like Walmart, for example. As they work, Walmart continues to expand, opening new locations and driving up the owner's bottom line. So, regardless of how much that cashier is paid, the corporation itself keeps accumulating massive surplus profits.

But what about your work?

rapidnomad322 said:Honestly, I was just thinking about writing something almost exactly like that! I'm a government employee myself, and my paycheck is actually under $1667 (not that it's my fault, right?) ☕ It feels like even the ladies working at the local Target might be pulling in more than me, though realistically, the level of work, the responsibility, and the specialized knowledge involved isn't really comparable—and hey, I’m totally happy for them if they’re making more, I truly am!

But seriously, whose fault is it if you don't just go grab a job at that store instead?

If you actually look at the effective hourly rate for government workers compared to the private sector, it’s actually massive...

Because, okay, if that lady (who probably has just as much schooling as you or anyone else mentioned here) were actually working five days a week, like, a standard 9-to-5 or 8-to-4 schedule, and had actual vacation time and sick leave similar to what we get in the public sector, her pay would top out at maybe $1333.

And yeah, what Sam Martinez9 is saying is totally spot on.

I see it all the time, in so many different departments, even across different cities and counties... sorry, but with the way things run and how efficient everyone is...

Let me give you an example.

Take PersonA working at 7-Eleven versus PersonB working for UPS or FedEx.

Now, sure, PersonB is definitely making more money, no doubt about it. But once you see their actual downtime, the sheer volume of packages they have to move, the state of the delivery trucks, and the fact that they're grinding for 10, 11, or even 12 hours straight whenever there's a surge—instead of that nice 6-to-2 shift where if anything is left over, it just waits until tomorrow...

I've spent time looking into these kinds of situations and seeing how much work people are actually putting in. Trust me, if one guy is making $8.25 net, then the other guy in the private sector deserves at least 40-$15. But he isn't getting that.

darkorca52 said:Why is there this constant narrative that public sector wages outpace the private sector, when 90 percent of those employees are working for $1667 or even less
? Which private company actually pays salaries that low?

🤣 Where on earth did you get that nonsense?

Jessica Torres63 said:But seriously, whose fault is it if you don't just go grab a job at that store instead?

If you actually look at the effective hourly rate for government workers compared to the private sector, it’s actually massive...

Because, okay, if that lady (who probably has just as much schooling as you or anyone else mentioned here) were actually working five days a week, like, a standard 9-to-5 or 8-to-4 schedule, and had actual vacation time and sick leave similar to what we get in the public sector, her pay would top out at maybe $1333.

And yeah, what Sam Martinez9 is saying is totally spot on.

I see it all the time, in so many different departments, even across different cities and counties... sorry, but with the way things run and how efficient everyone is...

Let me give you an example.

Take PersonA working at 7-Eleven versus PersonB working for UPS or FedEx.

Now, sure, PersonB is definitely making more money, no doubt about it. But once you see their actual downtime, the sheer volume of packages they have to move, the state of the delivery trucks, and the fact that they're grinding for 10, 11, or even 12 hours straight whenever there's a surge—instead of that nice 6-to-2 shift where if anything is left over, it just waits until tomorrow...

I've spent time looking into these kinds of situations and seeing how much work people are actually putting in. Trust me, if one guy is making $8.25 net, then the other guy in the private sector deserves at least 40-$15. But he isn't getting that.

There is something else fundamentally wrong here: you workers are turning on one another. People in government jobs lash out at those in the private sector, retail employees attack service industry staff, restaurant workers insult office drones... and the list goes on. You spend all this energy arguing that the "other guy" is getting a paycheck he hasn't earned.

The real adversary isn't your fellow worker; it's the employer. They are the ones who decide what your wage will be. Your salary doesn't fluctuate based on someone else's earnings—it's not as if my pay increases just because a waiter makes less than me.

That is precisely why I suggested in my initial post that you should be demanding higher wages from your employers instead.

Jacob Alvarez said:🤣 Where on earth did you get that nonsense?

It’s because I don't know a single person in the public sector making more than $3333 unless they are an executive. I personally know hundreds of people working within the court system, local police departments, the IRS, or municipal offices who are all working for peanuts.
Do you have any actual examples to the contrary?

darkorca52 said:Why is there this constant narrative that public sector wages outpace the private sector, when 90 percent of those employees are working for $1667 or even less
? Which private company actually pays salaries that low?

Way back in the day, those government checks were almost double the federal minimum wage. That wasn't really an issue then. The real trouble is that the government basically hit a plateau and stayed right there, while the rest of the American economy kept moving forward and hiking up pay just to keep talent from walking out the door.

Sam Martinez9 said:Look at it from this perspective:

Take the work of a cashier at a place like Walmart, for example. As they work, Walmart continues to expand, opening new locations and driving up the owner's bottom line. So, regardless of how much that cashier is paid, the corporation itself keeps accumulating massive surplus profits.

But what about your work?

Well, nothing, I guess, because you guys just shut down my job without even having a clue what I actually do, and then you're all left to deal with the mess that follows. Honestly, I'm just so over the constant exaggerations about how every single government employee is basically useless. Maybe if you actually showed up and did the job yourselves, you might get a little hint of how things actually function. I'm really not going to bother responding to condescending posts anymore. It’s not anyone else's fault that I'm making this salary, since I'm the one who agreed to this position, but seriously, just get off your high horse and see how much work goes into these different agencies before you start judging. And please, spare me the "my taxes pay your salary" routine—it's not like we aren't all paying taxes. 🤣

rapidnomad322 said:Well, nothing, I guess, because you guys just shut down my job without even having a clue what I actually do, and then you're all left to deal with the mess that follows. Honestly, I'm just so over the constant exaggerations about how every single government employee is basically useless. Maybe if you actually showed up and did the job yourselves, you might get a little hint of how things actually function. I'm really not going to bother responding to condescending posts anymore. It’s not anyone else's fault that I'm making this salary, since I'm the one who agreed to this position, but seriously, just get off your high horse and see how much work goes into these different agencies before you start judging. And please, spare me the "my taxes pay your salary" routine—it's not like we aren't all paying taxes. 🤣

I never once suggested that your position was useless. My point was simply identifying where there is more room in the budget to offer workers a meaningful raise. We are discussing economics here, aren't we? It seems only logical to take certain fiscal realities into account.

I argued that this senseless friction between public sector employees and private sector workers is a distraction, and that people really ought to move past it. But, predictably, that won't happen. It’s much easier to point fingers at some other struggling worker or an immigrant to justify a meager paycheck than it is to face the real issues.

What I actually said is that your true *adversary* is the employer, because they are the ones who ultimately hold the power over your salary.

darkorca52 said:It’s because I don't know a single person in the public sector making more than $3333 unless they are an executive. I personally know hundreds of people working within the court system, local police departments, the IRS, or municipal offices who are all working for peanuts.
Do you have any actual examples to the contrary?

Right. Well, if you want to see how things actually work, take a look at the budget transparency reports for a city like Palm Springs. Everything is laid out there for anyone to scrutinize:

If you just type "salary" into the description filter, you get a direct line into every single payroll position in Palm Springs.

It’s pretty eye-opening. Any mid-level department manager is pulling in 12k-$4333. Most senior specialists are making at least 8k-$3000. And some department heads? They're looking at 13k to 15k-$6000 monthly.

rapidnomad322 said:Honestly, I was just thinking about writing something almost exactly like that! I'm a government employee myself, and my paycheck is actually under $1667 (not that it's my fault, right?) ☕ It feels like even the ladies working at the local Target might be pulling in more than me, though realistically, the level of work, the responsibility, and the specialized knowledge involved isn't really comparable—and hey, I’m totally happy for them if they’re making more, I truly am!

Are we talking about full-time hours here, or a part-time schedule?

urbanhound23 said:Right. Well, if you want to see how things actually work, take a look at the budget transparency reports for a city like Palm Springs. Everything is laid out there for anyone to scrutinize:

If you just type "salary" into the description filter, you get a direct line into every single payroll position in Palm Springs.

It’s pretty eye-opening. Any mid-level department manager is pulling in 12k-$4333. Most senior specialists are making at least 8k-$3000. And some department heads? They're looking at 13k to 15k-$6000 monthly.

Keep in mind, those aren't federal civil servant salaries—those are city administration roles. Pay scales vary wildly from one municipality to the next in the US. Actual federal pay isn't quite like that. Agencies often pay more than cabinet departments, some institutes have great perks, others are pretty low... it varies.

People tend to overlook how many small business owners out there pay themselves and their staff nothing more than the legal minimum. I see it all the time with local contractors, restaurant owners, or guys working the docks.
A paycheck might show about $3,500 hitting the bank, but any decent contractor is pulling in at least $200 in cash daily.
Most restaurant owners just pay themselves and their families the bare minimum year-round to keep the books looking a certain way.
The fishermen usually take a commission of maybe 10-12% on the catch, taking the minimum on paper and pocketing the rest in cash.
And don't even get me started on the security guards.
It creates this massive illusion of a gap between public and private sectors, when in reality, the situation is often the exact opposite.
On top of that, plenty of people work under the table simply because they have collections hanging over them and can't afford to be officially on the payroll.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:We’ve been asking for years. And look what we finally got: 😬 https://www.nytimes.com/article/company-layoffs-bankruptcy-news.html

GE is laying off 71 redundant employees, leaving basically nothing behind but the CEO and a handful of managers. This was once a legendary powerhouse, but for years now, they've been bleeding money, and now they're staring down the barrel of bankruptcy.

Hold on a second, I don't get it. You're a mechanical engineer who's been whining about Delta Air Lines for 10 or 15 years. If the guy ruined the company—which isn't even a unique case—then just find a new job!
This isn't the USSR anymore where you stayed at the same firm from graduation until retirement. I worked at a company that shut down back in 2013 and found a new gig within a few months. Simple as that.

Anthony Wood75 said:People tend to overlook how many small business owners out there pay themselves and their staff nothing more than the legal minimum. I see it all the time with local contractors, restaurant owners, or guys working the docks.
A paycheck might show about $3,500 hitting the bank, but any decent contractor is pulling in at least $200 in cash daily.
Most restaurant owners just pay themselves and their families the bare minimum year-round to keep the books looking a certain way.
The fishermen usually take a commission of maybe 10-12% on the catch, taking the minimum on paper and pocketing the rest in cash.
And don't even get me started on the security guards.
It creates this massive illusion of a gap between public and private sectors, when in reality, the situation is often the exact opposite.
On top of that, plenty of people work under the table simply because they have collections hanging over them and can't afford to be officially on the payroll.

Look, an executive can't legally pay themselves less than the minimum required director contributions set by U.S. law. And as for the second thing (paying family members minimum wage)? That’s basically standard practice all over the Western world.

restlesscrane152 said:Look, an executive can't legally pay themselves less than the minimum required director contributions set by U.S. law. And as for the second thing (paying family members minimum wage)? That’s basically standard practice all over the Western world.

... which is also a fantastic way to make sure we hand over as little as possible to an inefficient, wasteful government.

The weakest argument those corporate shills ever use is always some variation of... "but we're the ones paying the taxes" 🤣

So, regarding actual wages—which seems to be where the real debate is heating up lately…

Look, you can always go with that "everyone I know makes this much" logic, but honestly? You should probably stick to official government statistics. Sure, they aren’t perfect—they don't catch under-the-table cash or all those executive bonuses and stock options that sit on top of a base salary—but they're still going to be way more accurate than just guessing based on your friends.

Anyway, you can dig into how pay is distributed across different industries (most of which line up pretty closely with the public versus private sector stuff we were talking about earlier) and see how things have been trending over the last seven years or so.

For instance, you can see that the tech sector pulls in some of the highest numbers—about $107,990 for the whole sector (including media and broadcasting), and if you look specifically at software engineering, it's around $116,600. But get this: commercial aviation actually sits higher at $122,020, even though the broader transportation and warehousing sector averages out closer to $72,720. It varies wildly.

And when you look at the growth over the past seven years—we're talking an average jump of 38%—healthcare actually saw a bigger spike than general tech (+54% for healthcare alone, excluding social assistance), and specialized programming shot up by 61%, while info services jumped a massive 74%.

On the flip side, the lowest paychecks are coming from security services and garment manufacturing. And the slowest growth? That's happening in mining and extraction.

There's also data on hourly rates, total compensation, and a bunch of other metrics.

You can even break it down by quartiles or deciles... For May, the average was $7,690 and the median was $2163, with the bottom 25% making less than $1653, while the top 25% cleared over $2944.

So, if anyone's interested…

https://www.bls.gov/data/tables/pay-distribution.xlsx

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/wage-trends.xlsx

https://www.bls.gov/newsrelease/archives/wage-report-may.html

darkorca52 said:It’s because I don't know a single person in the public sector making more than $3333 unless they are an executive. I personally know hundreds of people working within the court system, local police departments, the IRS, or municipal offices who are all working for peanuts.
Do you have any actual examples to the contrary?

What "over $1,500" are you even talking about? We shouldn't even be debating what mayors make at this point.

Education, medicine, Berkshire Hathaway, Zillow—those are the first four that come to mind where salaries are usually way north of 5k. Honestly, most of the people you listed should just be happy they even have a job at all.

rapidnomad322 said:Well, nothing, I guess, because you guys just shut down my job without even having a clue what I actually do, and then you're all left to deal with the mess that follows. Honestly, I'm just so over the constant exaggerations about how every single government employee is basically useless. Maybe if you actually showed up and did the job yourselves, you might get a little hint of how things actually function. I'm really not going to bother responding to condescending posts anymore. It’s not anyone else's fault that I'm making this salary, since I'm the one who agreed to this position, but seriously, just get off your high horse and see how much work goes into these different agencies before you start judging. And please, spare me the "my taxes pay your salary" routine—it's not like we aren't all paying taxes. 🤣

You told them exactly how it is.

Some people on here act like they can say whatever they want, acting all tough and playing the hero with that "stop complaining" attitude. Honestly, it's just nonsense. People naturally seek stability within a system; it just depends on what kind of stability they need and where they find it.

We keep seeing reports about how thousands of kids in Washington, D.C. are being left without childcare or preschool spots.

Well, fine then—no whining allowed! You "entrepreneurs" and "heroes" can just strap the kid to your shoulder and head to work. Nobody ever made a profit by sitting around complaining.

The logic seems to be that if you aren't making a fortune, it isn't worth working, so when there's a shortage of teachers or childcare workers, everyone just has to deal with it. Just imagine all the COMPLAINING
that will follow.

Of course, the pay is embarrassingly low. If the government doesn't raise it, they are going to lose their talent, and that includes the police and other essential services.

If that happens, we all lose that sense of security and systemic stability, and then mark my words...

there will be plenty of COMPLAINING, coming from all these "heroes" who love to act so brave online.

For entrepreneurship to even exist, you need a stable and secure country. Without security, there is no business; that should be obvious. Less posturing, more actual thinking about what the state needs to do. National stability matters to everyone.