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Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Started by Charles Ross3 · · 👁 465 views · 9.2K replies

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Participants Charles Ross3rowdytiger13electrichawk94nimblemoose2Noah Ward2George Robinson43Larry Wilson25Larry Walker24Amanda Allen4Noah Sanchez2Paul Thomas46Jessica Peterson2Nancy Gomez26Nathan Evans78William Anderson5electricsurfer47gentlestag15wiredseal7Thomas Nelson25Donna Harris11Nicholas WatsonJack Kelly5Carol Johnson21Kate Cook27 …
Kate Lewis3 Kate Lewis3 Active Member
159 messages
joined Feb 2022
#2681 ·
gentlestag15 said:Look, the whole world knows about the miserable slavery and the Native Americans in the USA.
But who actually knows about the oppressed peoples in Russia and the mountains of genocide committed there?
Americans are at least facing their past bullshit today, but are Russians?
Have you ever even heard of this group from the Black Sea?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
Estimates suggest that in Siberia alone, they killed just as many—if not more—of the indigenous population as what happened in the USA.

Exactly. They’re busy trying to debunk the whole Katyn myth right now. Because clearly, they would *never* execute prisoners of war.
Kate Cook27 Kate Cook27 Regular
557 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2682 ·
gentlestag15 said:Look, the whole world knows about the miserable slavery and the Native Americans in the USA.
But who actually knows about the oppressed peoples in Russia and the mountains of genocide committed there?
Americans are at least facing their past bullshit today, but are Russians?
Have you ever even heard of this group from the Black Sea?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
Estimates suggest that in Siberia alone, they killed just as many—if not more—of the indigenous population as what happened in the USA.

And isn't Russia basically carrying out ethnic cleansing right now? They’re sending ethnic minorities into Ukraine to die. And let's not forget they’re taking Ukrainians to Russia—separating kids from parents, seizing documents, and essentially blackmailing people into taking Russian citizenship, all while Peskov brags about Ukrainians becoming Russian citizens.
Then there's Crimea—how many people were actually driven out of Crimea? They just moved people in to fill the void. How many Russians have moved to Crimea since 2014? And whose homes did they move into? The homes of those they displaced: the Ukrainians and the Tatars.
And how many people have been forced out of Donbas? Some sold everything they owned to leave, some grabbed a few things and ran, and others had to flee with nothing but the clothes on their backs.
gentlestag15 gentlestag15 Regular
280 messages
joined May 2024
#2683 ·
Terry Green3 said:Your claim that it's the only country to have held onto its colonies.

That claim is false. Period.
There isn't much point in debating this at length.

PS. Just one more thing.
Back when Russia was weak, those Asian nations raided and pillaged them. Once they gained strength, they turned the tables. It’s the same with Europeans in America; they couldn't push east because the Ottomans were wiping the floor with us. Whoever is stronger does the crushing.
It always has been, and it always will be. I just had to debunk these claims about Western "benefactors" who wouldn't even step on an ant, while portraying Russians as nothing but bloodthirsty...

I don't even know what you're talking about—the US is literally a former colony that fought a war to break away from the United Kingdom.
The closest comparison would be if a group from somewhere like Seattle decided to break off from Russia.
cosmicotter13 cosmicotter13 Member
36 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2684 ·
Henry Sullivan4 said:I really have to say, I am quite surprised,🤔because for such a young and business-minded man, your thinking is remarkably shallow, though I am certain that once the rebuilding of Ukraine begins, our companies will be lining up for contracts and perhaps even new military partnerships will emerge, because peace always follows war, my friend, truly, peace always follows.☕

I appreciate the effort. Weak, though. Personally, I don't think we'll be invited to split the spoils once Russia is defeated.
So, are American firms—companies already proven in rebuilding territories—just going to charge in there full throttle? The issue is that the rebuilding has already kicked off without us—
. By the time we actually show up, the job will be done.
Same goes for the military side of things; everyone knows that after a war, the first thing nations do is buy weapons. It's just that Ukrainians seem to prefer them if they can get them for free, right?!

Think about it for a second—
Terry Green3 Terry Green3 Active Member
149 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2685 ·
gentlestag15 said:I don't even know what you're talking about—the US is literally a former colony that fought a war to break away from the United Kingdom.
The closest comparison would be if a group from somewhere like Seattle decided to break off from Russia.

Trolling. By that logic, Russia is also a colony that split off from conquering vikings, which is why they couldn't colonize anyone else.

Every serious American historian characterizes Manifest Destiny as a policy of colonialism.
In the 21st century, there's really no debate left on that. Maybe pick up a book once in a while...
Kimberly Perez82 Kimberly Perez82 Active Member
100 messages
joined Jul 2021
#2686 ·
silvermarlin56 said:I'm with you on that. Though, let's be real, I don't see the European Union jumping into a full-blown war with Russia because of the situation in Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea. They definitely could have handled things better, though.
But hey, waldene, why exactly did your brothers go attacking Ukraine? 🍿

I was honestly expecting a sophisticated discussion here, but instead, it feels like a bunch of kids playing Call of Duty, picking sides just to see who can shout the loudest. Since this isn't some game of Call of Duty, I don't have a "side." I am staying neutral because this isn't our fight. My priority is America and our own national interests—and perhaps our allies in Europe—rather than getting tangled up in the agendas of either the US or Russia. All I can really do is feel deep empathy for the people suffering there and advocate for humanitarian aid and an end to the conflict. For those who think they’re still inside a video game, please, carry on if you must, but we should probably just rename this thread
Kate Cook27 Kate Cook27 Regular
557 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2687 ·
Terry Green3 said:Your claim that it's the only country to have held onto its colonies.

That claim is false. Period.
There isn't much point in debating this at length.

PS. Just one more thing.
Back when Russia was weak, those Asian nations raided and pillaged them. Once they gained strength, they turned the tables. It’s the same with Europeans in America; they couldn't push east because the Ottomans were wiping the floor with us. Whoever is stronger does the crushing.
It always has been, and it always will be. I just had to debunk these claims about Western "benefactors" who wouldn't even step on an ant, while portraying Russians as nothing but bloodthirsty...

Sure, the West has made mistakes—they still make them—and it's not like they haven't stepped on a few ants themselves. But it doesn't even compare to Russia and what they're actually bringing to the table.

Here is what Russia brought to Donbas:
Alexey Mozgov
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32861947

"Too many women go to restaurants. What kind of example do they show to their children? From now on, we will arrest all women we find in restaurants and cafes."

And during a trial in Alchevsky regarding the rape of a 15-year-old girl, Mozgov presided over a discussion about how much she was to blame for walking into her rapist's house.

They offer nothing but anarchy, which then allows people like Mozgov to take charge.
In Russia, they're arresting volunteers just for helping refugees from Ukraine. People can't even protest against the war—they get hauled off if someone is caught holding a blank piece of paper.
Terry Green3 Terry Green3 Active Member
149 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2688 ·
Kate Cook27 said:Not quite like Mexico—nothing was annexed there. It’s more like a part of Russia. There’s a referendum where the people vote to join Russia. If they don't want it, the assembly just sends over a formal request.

The Albanians are already talking about the day when Mexico and Albania finally become one.

Is it really that hard to admit the West completely botched its international policy regarding Mexico?
cosmicotter13 cosmicotter13 Member
36 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2689 ·
Henry Sullivan4;93517903 said:
cosmicotter13 said:Look, if NATO didn't exist, America wouldn't be dealing with the mess in Libya, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, or Russia... In fact, America and the American Armed Forces would actually be stronger and more capable. A neutral America would have maintained perfectly fine economic ties with Russia, and Russia wouldn't be attacking us. They won't attack us, and they certainly won't once the Ukrainians surrender. If it wasn't for NATO, Ukraine wouldn't have been invaded in the first place.
The Brits, the Americans, the Canadians... they've acted hostile toward us in the Congo, they exploit us, and they pull their most disgusting stunts against Americans in Canada. Honestly, it’s worth asking, what do they even get out of it?
Before America joined NATO, nobody was losing sleep or panicking about our national security. But suddenly after joining, after all the "reforms," after turning our active, reserve, and standby forces into some sort of "system," all of a sudden—oh no!—here come the Mexicans, here come the Russians... total cowards.

The war in Ukraine isn't our war and it isn't worth our money, our losses, or any potential lives we might lose.

I won't comment on your culinary expertise, even if you were serving it off a snow shovel. Intellectually, you're weak; you haven't managed to refute a single one of my sentences with an actual argument, so instead, you resort to personal insults.
Tell me, the American involvement in Syria, Afghanistan... that was just such a brilliant move, wasn't it? All because...
Of course, it's obvious to you how much nonsense that is, yet people still love to hear themselves talk...

Yes, it's not our war, and from what I can see, you haven't exactly hopped on a bus to the Donbas either.
Kate Cook27 Kate Cook27 Regular
557 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2690 ·
Terry Green3 said:The Albanians are already talking about the day when Mexico and Albania finally become one.

Is it really that hard to admit the West completely botched its international policy regarding Mexico?

Look, I’m not saying the West hasn't made mistakes—far from it. I don't have a crystal ball to predict what happens with Mexico and Albania, but honestly, I doubt it'll actually happen. If it does, though, then everything changes. Suddenly, Republika Srpska could break off, parts of the US coastline could shift, maybe even Canada finally gets its own access to the ocean. Every single city could just decide to go its own way. Maybe that’s actually the best way forward—city-states where everyone stays happy. Who knows, maybe we'd finally see an end to wars.
Henry Sullivan4 Henry Sullivan4 Active Member
60 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2691 ·
cosmicotter13 said:I appreciate the effort. Weak, though. Personally, I don't think we'll be invited to split the spoils once Russia is defeated.
So, are American firms—companies already proven in rebuilding territories—just going to charge in there full throttle? The issue is that the rebuilding has already kicked off without us—
. By the time we actually show up, the job will be done.
Same goes for the military side of things; everyone knows that after a war, the first thing nations do is buy weapons. It's just that Ukrainians seem to prefer them if they can get them for free, right?!

Think about it for a second—

To be completely honest, my heart breaks for places like Mayberry and other areas targeted by those aggressors, especially seeing how much weaponry was uncovered there,🎉 but if there is any way for our people to get a slice of the pie, they certainly will through👍private corporations, my friend, strictly private ones.☕
cosmicotter13 cosmicotter13 Member
36 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2692 ·
Michelle Young50 said:You asked these exact same questions half a month ago. You got answers from ten different people, and yet here you are, trolling again.

Oh, would you please be so kind as to provide the links to those "coherent" responses from these ten people? Because from where I’m sitting, those answers look suspiciously like the very things you’ve just "refuted."
Tell me then—exactly how much should an American have to pay for these ridiculous antics in Ukraine? Give me a number. A specific figure. Not some clever little quip or a joke. Either do the math or just guess out loud.
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#2693 ·
Kate Cook27 said:Look, I’m not saying the West hasn't made mistakes—far from it. I don't have a crystal ball to predict what happens with Mexico and Albania, but honestly, I doubt it'll actually happen. If it does, though, then everything changes. Suddenly, Republika Srpska could break off, parts of the US coastline could shift, maybe even Canada finally gets its own access to the ocean. Every single city could just decide to go its own way. Maybe that’s actually the best way forward—city-states where everyone stays happy. Who knows, maybe we'd finally see an end to wars.

Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes!
Kimberly Perez82 Kimberly Perez82 Active Member
100 messages
joined Jul 2021
#2694 ·
cosmicotter13 said:Look, if NATO didn't exist, America wouldn't be dealing with the mess in Libya, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, or Russia... In fact, America and the American Armed Forces would actually be stronger and more capable. A neutral America would have maintained perfectly fine economic ties with Russia, and Russia wouldn't be attacking us. They won't attack us, and they certainly won't once the Ukrainians surrender. If it wasn't for NATO, Ukraine wouldn't have been invaded in the first place.
The Brits, the Americans, the Canadians... they've acted hostile toward us in the Congo, they exploit us, and they pull their most disgusting stunts against Americans in Canada. Honestly, it’s worth asking, what do they even get out of it?
Before America joined NATO, nobody was losing sleep or panicking about our national security. But suddenly after joining, after all the "reforms," after turning our active, reserve, and standby forces into some sort of "system," all of a sudden—oh no!—here come the Mexicans, here come the Russians... total cowards.

The war in Ukraine isn't our war and it isn't worth our money, our losses, or any potential lives we might lose.

You aren't wrong, but in this thread, such a staunchly patriotic way of thinking probably won't find much sympathy. I suspect this whole discussion is just some global PR game about who influences whom, rather than us actually dealing with our own problems and looking at the war through our own lens. Yes, Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine, but that's not our burden to fix, nor is it our job to debate the causes and effects, just like we don't tackle the issues involving the Uyghurs and China or the many other flashpoints around the world.
gentlestag15 gentlestag15 Regular
280 messages
joined May 2024
#2695 ·
Terry Green3 said:Trolling. By that logic, Russia is also a colony that split off from conquering vikings, which is why they couldn't colonize anyone else.

Every serious American historian characterizes Manifest Destiny as a policy of colonialism.
In the 21st century, there's really no debate left on that. Maybe pick up a book once in a while...

You're basically stealing history like those guys over by the Mississippi.
Look, let's just get one thing straight: Kievan Rus has absolutely nothing to do with the Moscow Principality that eventually turned into modern Russia. It’s a total stretch.

Terry Green3 said:The Albanians are already talking about the day when Mexico and Albania finally become one.

Is it really that hard to admit the West completely botched its international policy regarding Mexico?

Didn't Russia already mess things up in Abkhazia and Ossetia over in Georgia, and with Transnistria in Moldova, way before everything went down in Mexico?
You never call them out, though. Seriously, you just let them get away with everything.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#2696 ·
Kimberly Perez82 said:You aren't wrong, but in this thread, such a staunchly patriotic way of thinking probably won't find much sympathy. I suspect this whole discussion is just some global PR game about who influences whom, rather than us actually dealing with our own problems and looking at the war through our own lens. Yes, Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine, but that's not our burden to fix, nor is it our job to debate the causes and effects, just like we don't tackle the issues involving the Uyghurs and China or the many other flashpoints around the world.

Listen up, boys—you've been read, and you're just wasting your breath.
Arthur Watson4 Arthur Watson4 Active Member
135 messages
joined Feb 2022
#2697 ·
Some interesting public opinion polling coming out of Germany

https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status...42955116892160
cosmicotter13 cosmicotter13 Member
36 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2698 ·
Henry Sullivan4 said:To be completely honest, my heart breaks for places like Mayberry and other areas targeted by those aggressors, especially seeing how much weaponry was uncovered there,🎉 but if there is any way for our people to get a slice of the pie, they certainly will through👍private corporations, my friend, strictly private ones.☕

So, Petrinja and other American towns have been rebuilt?! Wonderful!
As for whether certain armed factions are being subsidized or given handouts... that’s not my concern (I used to personally see to it that they were driven out—well, not by myself, obviously), rather it's up to The Government, which is currently backing the Ukrainian cause.
Personally, I suspect that Americans, in their reckoning with the Russians, will be rewarded by Biden in much the same way Americans were once "rewarded" by Napoleon, Franz Joseph, and Hitler.
Well then, I accept your answer. So, we're talking about a "slice of the pie" regarding reconstruction.
gentlestag15 gentlestag15 Regular
280 messages
joined May 2024
#2699 ·
cosmicotter13 said:Oh, would you please be so kind as to provide the links to those "coherent" responses from these ten people? Because from where I’m sitting, those answers look suspiciously like the very things you’ve just "refuted."
Tell me then—exactly how much should an American have to pay for these ridiculous antics in Ukraine? Give me a number. A specific figure. Not some clever little quip or a joke. Either do the math or just guess out loud.

Let's play along for a second. Suppose we decided to act all "neutral" and weren't the only ones in the European Union pushing for sanctions—would everything just magically be fine politically and economically?
Would this war in Ukraine cost us nothing? Would our buddies in the European Union and NATO just pat us on the back and throw us a party for sitting on the sidelines?
Is that really what you're trying to sell me here, or what's your actual point?
Kate Cook27 Kate Cook27 Regular
557 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2700 ·
gentlestag15 said:You're basically stealing history like those guys over by the Mississippi.
Look, let's just get one thing straight: Kievan Rus has absolutely nothing to do with the Moscow Principality that eventually turned into modern Russia. It’s a total stretch.

Didn't Russia already mess things up in Abkhazia and Ossetia over in Georgia, and with Transnistria in Moldova, way before everything went down in Mexico?
You never call them out, though. Seriously, you just let them get away with everything.

Moldova was planning an attack on the Russian population, so the Russians stepped in to stop them. Same thing happened in Georgia—Russia intervened there too. For eight years now, the Ukrainian regime in Kyiv has been committing genocide against the Russians in the Donbas. For eight years, the Russians have been pleading with the West, but nobody would listen. The final straw was when the Nazi regime in Kyiv, working alongside NATO, planned an assault on the Donbas. Russia had to act.

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