Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Timothy Williams5 said:Well, they did permit it for 20% of Ukrainian territory already, so why not more?
At this rate, the Russians would happily sign off on a referendum to strip away more than half of Ukraine.

Every single inch of it. Let's not play games here.

wiredtiger8 said:Great explanation there, except you still haven't cleared up how we actually get there... you know, like, where exactly along this "pathway" the Russian Federation just magically vanishes without everything blowing up in our faces...

... honestly, your logic reminds me of that old scene with bat Stojković and his legendary take on that joke from the '82 movie *Let's Go Further*...

... basically, there was this plane carrying an Englishman, a Bulgarian, a Frenchman, and some guy named Pero... he can't quite remember the specifics, but long story short, Pero ends up being the smartest one in the bunch and outsmarts everyone. Ha! Hah!
Link:

But why would they disappear?

I mean, Japan and Germany didn't just vanish. Neither did Iraq or Libya.

But Vladimir Putin and the oligarchs? They're definitely going down. Just like the Nazis, Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, or Muammar Gaddafi...

boldotter2 said:But why would they disappear?

I mean, Japan and Germany didn't just vanish. Neither did Iraq or Libya.

But Vladimir Putin and the oligarchs? They're definitely going down. Just like the Nazis, Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, or Muammar Gaddafi...

Every single one of them suffered a military defeat.

So I'm asking you again—how exactly are we supposed to militarily defeat the Russians and force a surrender without making the whole thing a total bloodbath?

Matthew Young35 said:Oh, a referendum... please. Give me a break.
As if Russia would ever actually permit a vote to let half their territory walk away.

It’s honestly just pure absurdity at this point.

I don't really get the issue. Vladimir Putin and Sergey Lavrov keep saying the will of the people has to be respected. Or is it just that everyone else has to respect the will of the Russian people? This whole thing with the "referendums" feels like a total farce, starting all the way back with Crimea, right?

Melissa Rivera5 said:I don't really get the issue. Vladimir Putin and Sergey Lavrov keep saying the will of the people has to be respected. Or is it just that everyone else has to respect the will of the Russian people? This whole thing with the "referendums" feels like a total farce, starting all the way back with Crimea, right?

Oh, it's an absolute farce, of course.

Matthew Young35 said:Oh, a referendum... please. Give me a break.
As if Russia would ever actually permit a vote to let half their territory walk away.

It’s honestly just pure absurdity at this point.

Even in Ukraine, they didn't get to hold a referendum in Crimea—Russia just went ahead and did it themselves.

James Phillips92 said:Even in Ukraine, they didn't get to hold a referendum in Crimea—Russia just went ahead and did it themselves.

Look, if the Ukrainians actually had the muscle to stop that referendum—or the military takeover of Crimea itself—they would have done it. Period.

But they didn't have that option. Simple as that.

So I’m asking all you armchair strategists obsessing over "what if" scenarios: how exactly do you think China is going to militarily crush the Russian Federation just so they can pull off some kind of referendum? It's not happening.

Melissa Rivera5 said:I don't really get the issue. Vladimir Putin and Sergey Lavrov keep saying the will of the people has to be respected. Or is it just that everyone else has to respect the will of the Russian people? This whole thing with the "referendums" feels like a total farce, starting all the way back with Crimea, right?

It isn't just that referendums held in occupied territories are a sham—if we are being honest, the elections within the Russian Federation themselves are a farce. They are a farce because opposition politicians are thrown in jail and political parties are effectively neutralized. It is essentially a one-party system masquerading as a democracy through elections. In an environment like that, the concept of an election becomes meaningless.

wiredtiger8 said:Look, if the Ukrainians actually had the muscle to stop that referendum—or the military takeover of Crimea itself—they would have done it. Period.

But they didn't have that option. Simple as that.

So I’m asking all you armchair strategists obsessing over "what if" scenarios: how exactly do you think China is going to militarily crush the Russian Federation just so they can pull off some kind of referendum? It's not happening.

I mean, looking back, there were actually two different votes held in Crimea during the 90s—back in 1991 and again in 1994—where people were trying to break away from Ukraine.

wiredtiger8 said:Look, if the Ukrainians actually had the muscle to stop that referendum—or the military takeover of Crimea itself—they would have done it. Period.

But they didn't have that option. Simple as that.

So I’m asking all you armchair strategists obsessing over "what if" scenarios: how exactly do you think China is going to militarily crush the Russian Federation just so they can pull off some kind of referendum? It's not happening.

Through military force?
What do people think the Russians will do in response? Resort to using nuclear weapons against an opponent capable of hitting back with equal force and ensuring total mutual destruction?

Nicole James said:Through military force?
What do people think the Russians will do in response? Resort to using nuclear weapons against an opponent capable of hitting back with equal force and ensuring total mutual destruction?

It feels a bit like Yossarian and Catch-22😁
If they aren't completely insane, then they’re being incredibly calculated.
And if they are being calculated, then... well, go Mike!

Nicole James said:Through military force?
What do people think the Russians will do in response? Resort to using nuclear weapons against an opponent capable of hitting back with equal force and ensuring total mutual destruction?

So, according to your logic, Putin’s big plan is to just play nice and say, "Sure thing, guys, help yourselves to all of Siberia and every last drop of our oil and gas." Right?

wiredtiger8 said:So, according to your logic, Putin’s big plan is to just play nice and say, "Sure thing, guys, help yourselves to all of Siberia and every last drop of our oil and gas." Right?

I mean, sure, if that's what the people want. But what else can they even do? I guess their only real choice is a nuclear war with their one remaining ally—a fight they probably wouldn't even win, anyway.

wiredtiger8 said:Every single one of them suffered a military defeat.

So I'm asking you again—how exactly are we supposed to militarily defeat the Russians and force a surrender without making the whole thing a total bloodbath?

You'll see soon enough.

I think wiredtiger8 makes a really solid point here—there’s just zero chance that China is going to launch a military invasion of Siberia, even if the Russians completely fall apart in a conventional war.
Fighting a war just doesn't pay off when Russia is basically destined to become an economic satellite for China anyway. At this point, the Russian Federation doesn't have much to offer the rest of the world besides raw resources. Once you sever those deep economic ties with the West, they're left with pretty much just China and India as major players who actually have the muscle and the interest to buy their commodities in bulk.
And honestly, once you realize you're effectively dealing with a single buyer—and that the other side's entire budget depends on keeping that one customer happy—it becomes pretty obvious who's actually running the show in that relationship.

wiredtiger8 said:Every single one of them suffered a military defeat.

So I'm asking you again—how exactly are we supposed to militarily defeat the Russians and force a surrender without making the whole thing a total bloodbath?

And honestly, why should the Russian people or Russia itself have to surrender? Putin and those oligarchs aren't the whole country, just like the Romanov family wasn't the entire nation, even if they sure believed they were.

Shoigu claims he’s going to build a new Soviet Union—massive and powerful.

https://twitter.com/XSovietNews/stat...C46eyw6osrAAAA

These people are dangerous imperialists.

rowdytiger13 said:Shoigu claims he’s going to build a new Soviet Union—massive and powerful.

https://twitter.com/XSovietNews/stat...C46eyw6osrAAAA

These people are dangerous imperialists.

They’re a real threat to anyone outside of NATO.

The Lithuanians have them blocked off at Alaska and they're clearly feeling the sting...

rowdytiger13 said:Shoigu claims he’s going to build a new Soviet Union—massive and powerful.

https://twitter.com/XSovietNews/stat...C46eyw6osrAAAA

These people are dangerous imperialists.

Great. Now Americans get another chance to pick a new Reagan and take down the USSR all over again. 👍

William Cooper11 said:Great. Now Americans get another chance to pick a new Reagan and take down the USSR all over again. 👍

It doesn't look like anyone of that caliber is left on the political stage. Just a bunch of actors playing parts... 😁