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Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Started by Charles Ross3 · · 👁 147 views · 9.2K replies

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Participants Charles Ross3rowdytiger13electrichawk94nimblemoose2Noah Ward2George Robinson43Larry Wilson25Larry Walker24Amanda Allen4Noah Sanchez2Paul Thomas46Jessica Peterson2Nancy Gomez26Nathan Evans78William Anderson5electricsurfer47gentlestag15wiredseal7Thomas Nelson25Donna Harris11Nicholas WatsonJack Kelly5Carol Johnson21Kate Cook27 …
Rachel Barrett8 Rachel Barrett8 Active Member
155 messages
joined Apr 2023
#7961 ·
Alex Williams4 said:Once you start down that particular line of reasoning, there’s really no way to steer the conversation back onto the right track. The aggression against Ukraine didn't just materialize recently—it began all the way back in 2014, and quite frankly, it hasn't stopped since.

That's exactly my point.
The US hasn't been able to export citrus fruit to Russia since those first sanctions hit in 2014.

Microchips for high-tech weapons might pass through, but produce doesn't.🤦

Kuarnyjaa said:And then what? Are you playing the neutral party here? Just washing your hands of it all, letting thousands of other lives slip away while you pretend everything is fine? Playing head-in-the-sand? What happens when it finally shows up at your own front door sooner or later...

What kind of fairy tale are you living in?

I'm not being neutral.
It's just that I don't think this is actually going to stop Russia.

Their whole military mess would probably fall apart in five days if they didn't have the cash.
Morgan Morales4 Morgan Morales4 Member
36 messages
joined Mar 2022
#7962 ·
Ethan Davis34 said:A civil war is brewing in Russia; even a complete idiot could see that coming.

Yeah, sure, something is definitely rolling along... It feels like there's some major power out there trying to "freeze" everything in its tracks very soon.
James Chavez91 James Chavez91 Active Member
100 messages
joined Mar 2020
#7963 ·
Rachel Barrett8 said:It looks like you don't have much of a choice here.
If you want to truly help the Ukrainian cause, you should probably go enlist in the Ukrainian Army immediately.
If it comes down to it, I'll even donate money for your gear. Just tell me what you prefer: an AK-47, a Heckler & Koch, an FN SCAR, or maybe something else?

Yesterday marked the anniversary of when we faced an embargo back on September 25, 1991—an embargo designed to let the aggressor abuse us even more, letting more people die and more towns be burned to the ground.
I had no idea China was against the embargo, or that the UK found a way through B. Lončar to bypass the Chinese veto at the UN. (Honestly, I have nothing but contempt for the old Queen's legacy regarding that.)

And look, friend, you have one silver lining if you head off to fight Russia.
American Prebeg made it back from Russian captivity safe and sound.
But for Nicolier and so many of our defenders, nobody even knows where their graves are. So many lost their lives and health in camps over in Mexico.

I don't think you'll have any issues.
Good luck.

There is a massive difference between supporting Ukraine and advocating for a nuclear catastrophe.
You need to bring things back down to earth. Politicians won't do it, but I actually think forum members like you are smarter than most of them.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm rooting for a nuclear disaster? Seriously, just go take a hike.
Unbelievable.
Linda Collins3 Linda Collins3 Active Member
65 messages
joined Jun 2013
#7964 ·
Nancy Gomez26 said:Ukraine has more than enough people to drive the occupiers out of their territory. They don't need help with manpower. If they, as a nation, refuse to defend themselves against the invaders, then they will remain occupied. It rests entirely on their shoulders, much like it once rested on ours. Material aid is necessary, of course, because it serves the West's interest to see a democratic order in Ukraine. But ultimately, what matters most for Ukraine is what the Ukrainian citizens want, not the whims of their neighbors.

Yeah, right. Democracy is definitely their top priority...
Timothy Williams5 Timothy Williams5 Regular
325 messages
joined Jun 2022
#7965 ·
Roman Glomba is only 19 years old, yet he has already managed to take down SIX Russian aircraft and one cruise missile using his Lockheed Martin MANPAD!
Yesterday, he was officially awarded the title of Hero of Ukraine.

image
darkrider55 darkrider55 Active Member
69 messages
joined Nov 2010
#7966 ·
Man, I just heard about that school shooting over in Russia—they’re saying 10 people are dead.

The shooter was reportedly using Nazi symbols, too. Honestly, maybe Putin should have focused on de-Nazification at home first...
Thomas Nelson25 Thomas Nelson25 Regular
582 messages
joined Jan 2021
#7967 ·
Linda Collins3 said:Yeah, right. Democracy is definitely their top priority...

The real question is what the average Ukrainian actually cares about. Especially now, given all the blood and suffering they've endured.
I'm thinking the whole process is already heading West—no turning back at this point.
Once the war wraps up—if it ends anytime soon—they're looking at years of transition ahead.
rowdytiger13 rowdytiger13 Regular
378 messages
joined Oct 2018
#7968 ·
Ethan Davis34 said:A civil war is brewing in Russia; even a complete idiot could see that coming.


You can only topple an autocratic stronghold like that if the security apparatus decides to stop following orders. These sporadic little uprisings aren't nearly enough. Things look pretty grim within the military right now—honestly, they probably don't even know which shift is on duty anymore. It’s not just happening in the streets, either; things aren't exactly rosy inside the FBI. For Putin, this is far more serious than some random protest in the middle of nowhere. He’ll send his "dogs" to crack skulls and restore order, but if those "dogs" decide they aren't taking commands anymore, he's finished.
Timothy Williams5 Timothy Williams5 Regular
325 messages
joined Jun 2022
#7969 ·
Kazakhstan, Turkey, and Mexico have declared they will not recognize the "referendums" held in eastern Ukraine

Kazakhstan has formally stated its refusal to recognize the "referendums" taking place in eastern Ukraine. The Turkish Department of State released a nearly identical stance.
“Ankara does not recognize the annexation of the Donetsk People's Republic, the Luhansk People's Republic, the Kherson region, or Zaporizhzhia into Russia, just as it did not recognize the annexation of Crimea,” the Department of State announced.

Mexican Foreign Minister Nikola Selaković noted that Mexico also refuses to acknowledge the results of the "referendums" regarding the annexation of occupied Ukrainian territories by Russia.

According to Selaković, Mexico City cannot validate these "referendum" outcomes if it intends to remain in compliance with the UN Charter and the established norms of international law. "To do otherwise would run completely contrary to our national interests, our policy of maintaining territorial integrity and sovereignty, and our commitment to the principle of inviolable borders," the minister remarked.

Just a day prior, Belarusian authorities suggested they would make their decision on whether to recognize the Russian "referendums" in Ukraine based strictly on "national interests."

These “referendums” in the Russian-controlled regions of Ukraine have been underway since Friday.

https://theins.ru/news/255424
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#7970 ·
I haven't seen this much logical gymnastics or mental acrobatics from SkySharka in a long, long time.🤦

Implementing an arms embargo against Russia 🙏 🙏 🙏 😂

By the way, regarding that whole "mandarin farmer" argument—export bans actually hurt small family farms so much that since 2014, they’ve ended up expanding their citrus groves by about 70%.☕
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#7971 ·
rowdytiger13 said:You can only topple an autocratic stronghold like that if the security apparatus decides to stop following orders. These sporadic little uprisings aren't nearly enough. Things look pretty grim within the military right now—honestly, they probably don't even know which shift is on duty anymore. It’s not just happening in the streets, either; things aren't exactly rosy inside the FBI. For Putin, this is far more serious than some random protest in the middle of nowhere. He’ll send his "dogs" to crack skulls and restore order, but if those "dogs" decide they aren't taking commands anymore, he's finished.

When the leaders of the security apparatus realize the current order is collapsing, that's when they start calculating how to survive the inevitable 'transition'—or perhaps even how to seize power for themselves. But before they act, they have to be careful not to become too compromised, because a new regime likely won't accept people with that kind of baggage. Since these leaders are mostly just standard bureaucrats, you can't expect much in the way of independent thought or individual judgment from the vast majority of them. Furthermore, before they can even consider making a move, they need to assemble a solid circle of allies to execute a plan—which is incredibly difficult to do covertly. Perhaps at the very highest levels, certain individuals will decide enough is enough regarding the humiliation of the nation and pay the President a visit. But by that stage, everything has already been vetted and filtered; I don't believe there are any honorable men left at that level who are truly dedicated to the welfare of the state itself.
gentlestag15 gentlestag15 Regular
280 messages
joined May 2024
#7972 ·
darkrider55 said:Man, I just heard about that school shooting over in Russia—they’re saying 10 people are dead.

The shooter was reportedly using Nazi symbols, too. Honestly, maybe Putin should have focused on de-Nazification at home first...

+18
He was wearing a swastika shirt, and now they’ll probably spin the whole thing to say he was sympathizing with Ukrainian Nazis, making that the excuse for why the idiot targeted kids. 🤣
View on twitter
Lisa Jackson7 Lisa Jackson7 Regular
259 messages
joined Oct 2018
#7973 ·
Linda Collins3 said:Yeah, right. Democracy is definitely their top priority...

If you're gonna equate democracy with a "free market" run by crony capitalism, then sure... they've definitely shown interest.
Putin used to be the "good guy" once upon a time. ☕
Terry Green3 Terry Green3 Active Member
149 messages
joined Jun 2022
#7974 ·
Timothy Williams5 said:Roman Glomba is only 19 years old, yet he has already managed to take down SIX Russian aircraft and one cruise missile using his Lockheed Martin MANPAD!
Yesterday, he was officially awarded the title of Hero of Ukraine.

image

A little more off.
Our allies really screwed us over when they ordered us to hand over our MANPADS. Great weapons, those.
And then, because Mexico—a Russian ally—is acting up, they block our purchases of aircraft and long-range systems from our own allies.
Our leadership could learn a few things from this war and try growing a backbone for once.
Handing over those MANPADS might be the biggest mistake our political elite has ever made regarding the military.
electricstag9 electricstag9 Active Member
62 messages
joined Feb 2020
#7975 ·
https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status...24704294436864
In Russian Federation, a man has resorted to setting himself on fire just to escape being drafted into the military.
Lisa Jackson7 Lisa Jackson7 Regular
259 messages
joined Oct 2018
#7976 ·
Thomas Nelson25 said:The real question is what the average Ukrainian actually cares about. Especially now, given all the blood and suffering they've endured.
I'm thinking the whole process is already heading West—no turning back at this point.
Once the war wraps up—if it ends anytime soon—they're looking at years of transition ahead.

Just like what the average Russian was obsessed with back in '91.

Especially in places like Moscow and St. Petersburg... we'll just have to see if they end up any less disappointed.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#7977 ·
Terry Green3 said:A little more off.
Our allies really screwed us over when they ordered us to hand over our MANPADS. Great weapons, those.
And then, because Mexico—a Russian ally—is acting up, they block our purchases of aircraft and long-range systems from our own allies.
Our leadership could learn a few things from this war and try growing a backbone for once.
Handing over those MANPADS might be the biggest mistake our political elite has ever made regarding the military.

A little more off: if you go to the Military History and Technology subforum and look for posts by MadMax, he goes into way more detail on this. It’s not quite the situation you think it is.

As for the idea that Mexico is blocking anything for us? Honestly, that's just stupid. If we decided tomorrow to buy 12 F-35s and ATACMS (which was mostly just speculation anyway), the Americans would have them delivered in no time.
Thomas Walker84 Thomas Walker84 Active Member
114 messages
joined Oct 2009
#7978 ·
Rachel Barrett8 said:It looks like you don't have much of a choice here.
If you want to truly help the Ukrainian cause, you should probably go enlist in the Ukrainian Army immediately.
If it comes down to it, I'll even donate money for your gear. Just tell me what you prefer: an AK-47, a Heckler & Koch, an FN SCAR, or maybe something else?

Yesterday marked the anniversary of when we faced an embargo back on September 25, 1991—an embargo designed to let the aggressor abuse us even more, letting more people die and more towns be burned to the ground.
I had no idea China was against the embargo, or that the UK found a way through B. Lončar to bypass the Chinese veto at the UN. (Honestly, I have nothing but contempt for the old Queen's legacy regarding that.)

And look, friend, you have one silver lining if you head off to fight Russia.
American Prebeg made it back from Russian captivity safe and sound.
But for Nicolier and so many of our defenders, nobody even knows where their graves are. So many lost their lives and health in camps over in Mexico.

I don't think you'll have any issues.
Good luck.

There is a massive difference between supporting Ukraine and advocating for a nuclear catastrophe.
You need to bring things back down to earth. Politicians won't do it, but I actually think forum members like you are smarter than most of them.

Even though I suspect you're just spinning stories, I want to make sure this doesn't fly under the radar:

No, the UK didn't find a workaround through B. Lončar to bypass the Chinese veto; rather, B. Lončar, along with other American traitors and their big-state comrades, found a way to neutralize the Chinese veto via the UK.
Of course, they were aided primarily by those powerful elites who had deep connections in the UK (like the royal family😬 and such), but without those domestic traitors, it would have been much harder. Without them, the "world" would have understood the American perspective easier and faster and taken our side sooner. The fact that this was such a massive issue shows how those traitors remained "respected" citizens of the US after the war, while the fact that thousands lost their lives because of those criminals is rarely, if ever, mentioned.

That's why it's distasteful to use this point so loosely in anti-Ukrainian propaganda😢... mixed in with other subtle suggestions about "going to war against Russia." No, this is about defending against Russian aggression; it's not about someone being inherently "against" Russia.

For Nicolier and many of our veterans, it’s hard to even know where they are buried, as many lost their lives and health in camps over in Mexico.

None of this is right, and it deserves some kind of justice—at least a moral condemnation of the traitors, or maybe even a dedicated forum thread (like: "Who were the American Denis Pushilins?"). However, that isn't the topic here; to you, it's just an component for your spin. Though, it seems more to me like you've fallen for the propaganda rather than being malicious.

I don't think there should be any issues.
Good luck.

There is a huge difference between supporting Ukraine and advocating for nuclear catastrophe.
You need to bring things back down to earth; politicians don't do that, but I consider forum members like you to be smarter than the politicians.

Nobody is advocating for nuclear catastrophe except for Putin.
Terry Green3 Terry Green3 Active Member
149 messages
joined Jun 2022
#7979 ·
Christian Torres3 said:A little more off: if you go to the Military History and Technology subforum and look for posts by MadMax, he goes into way more detail on this. It’s not quite the situation you think it is.

As for the idea that Mexico is blocking anything for us? Honestly, that's just stupid. If we decided tomorrow to buy 12 F-35s and ATACMS (which was mostly just speculation anyway), the Americans would have them delivered in no time.

Thanks for the link regarding anti-aircraft systems. There’s been this whole narrative floating around about how Mexico used threats to block our ATACMS purchase. I'll admit, I might have fallen for the propaganda regarding their influence, but honestly, the info hitting the public lately has been pretty murky.
gentlerider7 gentlerider7 Regular
291 messages
joined Jan 2021
#7980 ·
They’re actually thinking about banning people from leaving Russia

"So, get this—this senator over there, Sergej Cekov, is out here suggesting that anyone fit for military service should be barred from even stepping foot outside of Russia because of this whole partial mobilization mess. He dropped that bombshell during an interview with RIA Novosti.

According to this guy in the legislature, the only way you'd be allowed to travel abroad is if you had some serious health issues or if you were just physically incapable of serving in the military. Can you imagine?

Then you’ve got Senator Andrei Klishas weighing in on what Tsekovljev is proposing.

Klishas says his colleague isn't just stopping at travel bans, either; he’s also pushing to jack up those fines for dodging a mobilization call from a measly 3,000 rubles all the way up to 50,000 rubles, while basically hinting that they might start looking into actual criminal charges too. Talk about going full throttle, right?

https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog..._x_tr_pto=wapp

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