Debates over sex and gender

lonegardener said:I finally stumbled upon an incredibly solid, deep-dive documentary that tackles a similar question: What is a man?

🤣

‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?”

...to be told I was literally killing trans people with my hate, to be called cunt and bitch and, of course, for my books to be burned, although one particularly abusive man told me he’d composted them.

Link

Jose Edwards16 said:Matt Walsh is the creator of the documentary What is a Woman?
The film hits screens on June 1st.

If you’re wondering—and it is a bit of a weird question, I guess—what "woman" actually means and why some guy would make a whole movie about it, the answer is pretty straightforward.
Basically, while participating in debates with transgender individuals regarding how they define "woman," Matt Walsh kept getting told that the term can't actually be defined—or rather, that they don't know what a woman is. So, Walsh eventually asked: if people identifying as trans women can't define the term "woman," how do they even know they are trans women? I mean, the phrase "trans woman" is just two words joined together to create a new concept.
To get from "woman" to "trans woman," you really have to understand what both "woman" and "trans" signify first.

Here is the trailer for the Walsh film. A lot of folks in the LGBTQ community have already labeled the doc "transphobic" just based on the trailer alone, even though
the footage shows Walsh interviewing people with all sorts of viewpoints (including members of the LGBTQ community) and getting various responses—like one person saying the term "woman" could mean anything, or that there are women with penises and men with vaginas. There was also one guy who, when asked "How do you know you're a man?", just answered bluntly: "I know because I have a penis."

YouTube Trailer What Is A Woman

IMDB

It's the question you're not allowed to ask. The documentary they don't want you to see.

One woman told him that "only a woman can answer the question of what a woman is." Walsh then asked her: "So, are you perhaps a cat?" She said, "No."
Then Walsh asked: "Well, can you define what a cat is, then?"

Meanwhile, over on Twitter, members of the LGBTQ community are tagging the trailer as "transphobic" and trying to get it taken down—though it hasn't worked so far.

I find it interesting that Walsh gets branded a "transphobe" just for questioning the very premise of the film's title.
Also, if members of the LGBTQ community don't know (or maybe just won't) give an answer to the question of what a woman is, are we all supposed to just accept that view and say starting in 2022:
"The term woman is undefinable; we don't know what it signifies."

Just to be fair and listen to the other side, there have been plenty of critiques and attacks on the Walsh film, so here is one:

Transphobic Ad Asks "What is A Woman?"
YouTube

Right in the first minute, this YouTuber (Jamie) expresses shock at Walsh joining a march and asking the protesters: "What is a woman?"
By the second minute, when the trailer shows someone answering "Because I have a penis" to the question "How do you know you're a man?", Jamie doesn't even comment.
I guess he just didn't like that straightforward answer.

Jamie then goes on to say: "Trans women aren't men who became women; they are women who became trans."
Just a quick thought: how did these trans women become "trans"? We end up right back at the same spot where you need to define "trans" and "woman."

Jamie continues by calling Walsh's questions "bullshit" and repeats that the documentary is transphobic. ☕

Matt Walsh responded to him in his own video:
trans YouTuber Responds to What is a Woman
YouTube MW

Addressing Jamie's question about why "that dude" is asking women at a protest "what a woman is,"...
Walsh asks Jamie how he (Jamie) knows he (Walsh) is—well, a guy. He's like, "I didn't actually say I was a man anywhere in the documentary."
And honestly, that’s the first major contradiction from the LGBTQ crowd—I mean, first they claim "woman" is an undefinable concept, but then they spot Matt Walsh on screen and start lecturing him for being a man leading a march of women. So, the LGBTQ community immediately identifies Walsh as a man—and they clearly recognize he's among the women on the march.
Wait, how does that work—if we aren't allowed to define certain terms?

It seems pretty obvious to me that the term "woman" is easy enough to define, just like "man" or "trans woman." I mean, when we see someone, we don't usually struggle to tell if they're a man or a woman. It feels like the LGBTQ population just blurs the definitions to push a specific agenda.

And Walsh hit them with a point at the end too: "Jamie, in your ten minutes of commentary on my trailer, you didn't even answer the question I asked: What is a woman, how do we actually define that term?"
That's the second big contradiction right there.

Finally, Walsh explains his actual goal with the film: What is a Woman.
Explanation

He says, somewhat ironically, that the documentary will actually be incredibly useful and eye-opening for the LGBTQ+ community, since they insist they can't define what a "woman" is.
Another contradiction!

There's more to it, I guess, but this is just a starting point for the discussion.☕

Harold Doyle3 said:A woman is whatever a man wants her to be—physically and spiritually.
A man is whatever a woman wants him to be—physically and spiritually.

The problem is, they both have no clue what they actually want from one another.

lonetrucker4 said:Yeah, I touched on Sokolov's basement back in the day when I was still grinding away in journalism.

There’s this crowd, totally blinded by the "hard sciences," who insist that if an activity isn't an hard science, then it isn't even science at all. If there aren't rigid, mathematical criteria, they claim it doesn't exist.

The end result? Everyone thinks they can just spout whatever nonsense pops into their heads. So why even bother debating? Look at today's endless arguments over gender; people don't even cite science anymore—they lean on tradition or religion. It’s always, "Men are men, women are women, period! That's God's will, so don't you dare question the binary."

I'm done wasting my breath on this. You aren't going to budge, but I hope some readers from the older threads finally get why this whole thing is such a mess.

Amy Howard18 said:I’d like to add my two cents to this. I feel like a man should be masculine in every other aspect of his life, but when it comes to love? That's where he should embrace being the "woman."

ruggedraven36 said:So, how does one actually "act" like a man (or a woman)? Is it in picking cherries, collecting stamps, grabbing a coffee, watching sparrows through a window, walking down stairs, or even knowing how to capitalize a sentence? Is it in reading the debate about whether to put cheese in the fridge, or listening to Robert Flack? How do you suddenly become "masculine" or "feminine" in all those endless little actions—and a million others besides?

Harold Doyle3 said:Like this.

lonegardener said:Here’s a little more food for thought:

This older guy, a local shop owner, hung a sign outside his door that read: "if you were born with a dick, you're not a chick." 🤣

Well, some guy in a skirt—who happens to be a local city councilman—spotted it and demanded the owner take it down. So, you have this tall, burly guy who is very obviously a man. Look, nobody is stopping him from wearing a skirt, but apparently, that isn't enough for him: he wants *society* to loudly "validate" that he is a woman. It’s a very interesting concept.

Then there’s an older example: Ben Shapiro addressed Zoe Tur as "sir" (instead of, presumably, "ma'am" 🤦)

—to which the guy put his hand on Ben Shapiro's neck and said, "you can cut it out, or you'll go home in an ambulance."

Ben Shapiro gave a pretty weak response to that. He really should have said: DUDE! That was soooo ladylike, I'm sure everyone is now convinced that you are, in fact, a woman. 🤣

ruggedraven36 said:Glad you didn't just send me smoke signals. Dropping links isn't a conversation.

Laura Jones56 said:I suppose I struggle to grasp the logic behind the idea that a woman inhabiting a male body could be considered identical to a woman inhabiting a female body.🤷
How far would society actually go in practice when it comes to accepting a trans woman as a woman?
To me, it all seems quite clear if I just sit back and let my mind wander for a moment without overthinking it too much.
It really isn't the same thing, and I certainly wouldn't pretend that it is.

Jose Edwards16 said:Well, I suppose I could try to get a discussion going here. Not that anyone asked, but I figured I might as well throw it out there—maybe.

So, let's say—just as an example—we take a look at something actually constructive and decent for once.
So, in response to that whole "What is a Woman" debate—you know, the one everyone seems to be shouting about lately—this one woman actually decided to write a poem instead of just arguing on Twitter. I guess she figured there was a more... artistic way to handle it? Maybe. Anyway, here’s what she put together:

I guess I should probably start by saying that YouTube is... well, it’s a bit of a mess lately, isn't it? Not that I'm complaining—I mean, I spend way too much time on there anyway—but the whole vibe feels different. It’s like everything is being pushed toward this specific, polished, almost corporate aesthetic, which, honestly, is kind of exhausting. You go looking for something niche or just a random guy talking about his woodworking hobby, and suddenly you're being fed ten videos from some massive media conglomerate that feels like it was produced in a studio in Burbank. Maybe it’s just me, or maybe the algorithm is just getting better at being annoying—I don't really know. It feels more aggressive, if that makes sense. Like it knows exactly what you want before you do, but instead of giving you the actual thing, it gives you a high-production version of it that feels hollow. I guess we’ve all just accepted it, though. We click, we watch, we move on. It’s just how things work now, I suppose.

Being a woman—well, I guess you could say it’s a kind of pain that starts right along with that very first period. It’s just one of those things, I suppose.
And then there’s just that massive wave of confusion that follows—if you can even call it that. It's more like a fog that settles in, I guess.
Ideas aren't really the thing—anyone can have ideas, I guess. It’s more about what you actually do with them, which is where most people usually trip up.
It’s that kind of ache—the one that just settles in after you lose a child. It isn't really a feeling, more like a constant, heavy presence. I guess you could call it a hollow sort of pain, though even that feels a bit too simple for what it actually is.
And then there’s that whole thing about her body betraying her—like it’s some kind of personal failure just because it can't carry one. I guess it's just one more way things feel out of control, isn't it?
It’s not just about the makeup and the clothes, I guess.
Clowns are out there painting their faces—I guess you could say they’re just putting on a mask, though why anyone would want to look like that is beyond me. It's all just part of the act, I suppose.
Using the props from his show—well, if you can even call them that—he’s basically just... I guess you could say he's leaning into it? It feels a bit much, maybe, but then again, who am I to judge the whole production? He's definitely trying to make a point with those items, though whether that point actually lands or just gets lost in the theatricality is another story entirely. Just my two cents, I suppose.
(World news related /?/).
I'm not entirely sure if I nailed the translation on that last one—you know, like, if I actually captured the actual vibe or meaning of it. Maybe I didn't. It's hard to say, I guess.

She isn't exactly the picture of grace and fragility—not by a long shot.
Fine china—it’s beautiful, sure, but man, it breaks way too easily. I guess that’s just the nature of things—you get something high-end and delicate, and you’re basically just waiting for the inevitable crack. It’s kind of like life, isn't it? You spend all this time picking out the perfect stuff, only to realize it's fragile. Anyway, just something I was thinking about while cleaning up some dishes earlier.
But she—she just won't quit—it’s actually kind of relentless, I guess.

What is a Woman?
She’s basically the word for God on her child's lips—if you know what I mean.
She’s those sleepless nights—you know, that restless feeling when you just can't shut your brain off—and I guess there's just no escaping it.
Just sitting here, wondering if this world is actually safe enough for her kid—I mean, you look around sometimes and it’s hard not to worry, I guess.

She just isn't the type of person you'd want casting that role—I mean, maybe if you were looking for someone totally different, but honestly? Probably not.
Where a man actually gets to play the lead role.
It’s kind of like an old Shakespearean drama—if you think about it.

She’s just being provocative—it's all just a way to get under your skin, I guess. Just constant agitation, really.
When you're just walking down the street...
She isn't exactly looking for the spotlight—I guess you could say she's not really chasing the attention, if that makes sense. Maybe she just prefers staying under the radar.
She just wants to exist, I guess.

What is a Woman?
She’s basically just a walking testament to everything her ancestors survived—it’s kind of wild when you think about it.
Pushed aside.
She’s basically their only shot at survival—if they can even pull it off, I guess.
It’s their fight for equality, I guess—though you have to wonder who actually defines what that looks like in practice.
It’s one thing to see it—it’s another thing entirely to actually hear it. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things again... I guess what I mean is, visibility isn't everything. You need that auditory component too, if that makes any sense.

She’s basically the only thing her kids have to look forward to.
Waiting for it to happen.
What is a Woman?
She’s a total marvel—honestly, kind of a miracle.
What exactly a man *can't* be. It’s funny how people try to draw these lines in the sand—you know, those arbitrary boundaries we all just collectively decided to follow—but I guess there are certain things that simply don't fit the mold. It’s less about what you can't do and more about the inherent contradictions of being a guy in this country today. Maybe it's about expectations, or maybe it's just the way things are wired, but there are definitely some roles that feel... off. I mean, I'm not saying there aren't exceptions to everything—there always are—but if we're talking about the core idea of masculinity, there are limits. It's a weird conversation to have, honestly.
It’s like his yin and his yang—and then there’s that little bit of something else tucked right in the middle.

It’s not like some label you'd see on a bathroom stall, I guess.
She’s just... I don't know, she's so much more than that—it’s hard to put a finger on it, really. Maybe it's just the way she carries herself, or some quality I can't quite grasp—anyway, she’s just more.
Just based on what you can see from her chest—well, I guess it’s hard to say much more than that without getting into all the other details, right?
Or maybe they're just tucked away in her desk drawers.

Of course, just take a look at the original—this was just a quick-and-dirty translation from English.

I don't know—this actually brought a few tears to my eyes, which is kind of wild because I can't even remember the last time I felt this emotional... and that's while listening to poetry, of all things.
Quincy:

She isn't just some idea—I mean, anyone can come up with an idea, I guess. It’s that kind of ache—the one that settles in after you lose a child. I guess there isn't really a way to describe it without sounding like a cliché, but it's just... there.

So, this...
Quincy:

She’s those sleepless nights—you know the ones—where everything just feels a bit off and you can't quite shut your brain down. Just sitting here wondering if this world is actually safe enough for her kid—it’s one of those things that stays in the back of your mind, I guess. Maybe it isn't, maybe it is, but you can't help but worry about whether everything is truly stable out there.

It looks like you might have cut off your message there. I was just sitting here thinking about how things usually go—you start typing something, maybe a thought hits you, and then... nothing. Just a stray semicolon staring back at you from the screen. Anyway, if you were trying to get a point across or ask something, feel free to drop it whenever. I'm around.
She just isn't looking for the spotlight—honestly, she’d probably rather blend into the background if she could. It’s not like she’s trying to be difficult or anything, she just... I guess she prefers the quiet life, away from all the noise. Maybe it's just her way of being, though I suppose some people find that kind of avoidance a bit odd—but hey, to each their own, right?
She really just wants to exist, I guess—to just be.

She isn't looking for attention—or at least, that’s how it seems from where I'm sitting—but I guess it's hard to tell sometimes, isn't it? Maybe she just prefers the quiet, though I don't know. It feels like everyone is constantly performing these little roles, trying to be seen, when maybe some people actually just want to exist without the spotlight being shoved in their face. It's a weird dynamic, I suppose.
She just wants to exist, I guess.

🙂👍

Sam Martinez9 said:That really depends on whether you define yourself by your mind or by your body.

Laura Jones56 said:I'm struggling to see the logic behind that, honestly.
And I can't quite grasp the reasoning used to split identity into such distinct categories as "mind" versus "body" in the first place.

ruggedraven36 said:So, how does one actually "act" like a man (or a woman)? Is it in picking cherries, collecting stamps, grabbing a coffee, watching sparrows through a window, walking down stairs, or even knowing how to capitalize a sentence? Is it in reading the debate about whether to put cheese in the fridge, or listening to Robert Flack? How do you suddenly become "masculine" or "feminine" in all those endless little actions—and a million others besides?