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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 651 views · 9.5K replies

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Amanda Allen4 Amanda Allen4 Active Member
238 messages
joined Feb 2013
#3281 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:That’s 19th or 20th-century thinking. Modern warfare has evolved; it spans everything from economic warfare to cyber strikes.

In reality, we can all agree that the actual war is being fought between Russia and Ukraine—a nation armed with NATO equipment and receiving every possible bit of NATO support, just without the boots on the ground. Even the training for Ukrainian soldiers is happening within NATO countries.

Look, it doesn't matter how the war is being fought or who is pulling the strings behind the scenes—what matters is who the aggressor is and who is defending themselves. For any rational person, there shouldn't be even a shred of doubt about that.
Anthony Perez9 Anthony Perez9 Regular
311 messages
joined Apr 2019
#3282 ·
Gerald Torres84 said:That is precisely what the Russians are missing... they possess vast natural resources and the potential to be at least three times more powerful than Germany in terms of economic scale. If they were to actually bolster their economy, they could quite elegantly draw neighboring nations into their sphere of influence.

But instead, look at what they have actually done... they allowed a bunch of puppets, looters, and oligarchs to seize power—people who simply line their own pockets while performing these desperate geopolitical acrobatics involving wars.

As if being 3x stronger than Germany matters. Compared to the USA, they're at least 5x weaker! 😂
hiddeneagle98 hiddeneagle98 Regular
300 messages
joined Nov 2023
#3283 ·
Ilana I can't even begin to wrap my head around this. It’s like watching someone try to build a skyscraper out of wet cardboard and then acting shocked when the whole thing collapses under its own weight. You see it all the time—people making these sweeping, half-baked claims without ever stepping back to look at the actual mechanics of how things work in the real world. It’s one thing to have an opinion, but it’s another thing entirely to be so confidently wrong that you actually believe your own nonsense. Honestly, it reminds me of those amateur pundits on cable news who talk for twenty minutes straight without saying a single coherent thing, just circling the drain of their own logic until the audience eventually tunes out from sheer exhaustion. You can't just ignore the fundamental rules of the game and expect to win, no matter how much noise you make.
Sure, all that sympathy is nice and all, but let’s be real—it doesn’t actually change anything. It’s like being told "sorry you're hungry" while someone's standing there holding the only key to the pantry. Nobody here, and honestly nobody in your life, even gets a say in whether you're allowed to make your own choices or not. Everything is decided by those people at the top who decide when they want to cut off your access to cheaper gas just so they can force you into buying the expensive stuff. It’s a rigged game; they create the dependency on one thing just so they can hike the price on exactly what you need to survive, and we're all just stuck following their lead.

You got any other options?

The whole situation with importing oil via pipelines directly from Russia is just a massive headache that we can't seem to shake. It’s like trying to rely on a neighbor you don't trust to keep your furnace running all winter; you know deep down that at any moment, they could just turn the valve and leave you shivering in the dark just to prove a point. We're essentially tethering our energy security to a volatile geopolitical wildcard, and honestly, it feels like we're walking a tightrope without a net. You look at the infrastructure we have in place, and instead of diversifying or building something truly independent, we’re stuck leaning on these massive, outdated conduits that give one specific foreign power way too much leverage over our domestic stability. It’s frustrating because it feels less like a strategic choice and more like we're being held hostage by a supply chain that was built on shaky ground to begin with.

Then there's the whole business of importing crude through those massive tanker terminals, kind of like how they operate out of the Port of Corpus Christi or the refineries down in Louisiana. It’s a completely different beast compared to just pulling stuff from a pipeline. You're talking about deep-water access, massive infrastructure, and having to deal with the sheer logistics of docking these gargantuan vessels. It changes the entire flow of the supply chain when you're relying on those coastal hubs to feed the refineries.

Look, if you follow principle A, all you're doing is handing over the keys to the kingdom and making yourself completely beholden to Russia. It’s like building your entire house on someone else's land and then acting surprised when they decide to charge you rent just for existing. You aren't gaining any leverage; you're just creating a permanent dependency that leaves you with zero room to maneuver when things inevitably get messy.

Under principle B, you basically have the green light to buy fuel from just about anyone capable of filling up a tanker truck. It’s wide open.

Look, Principle B is a bit of a headache because, let's be honest, most suppliers out there operate like they're part of some shady little cartel, just squeezing you whenever they feel like it. But if you step back and look at the big picture, you’ve still got a whole lineup of different vendors to choose from, so you aren't really stuck hanging on the teat of any single one of them for survival.

It’s the exact same logic you apply to LNG. You either pull gas through a pipeline from someone like Russia—or maybe Algeria or Norway—or you have an LNG terminal that lets you source from the Americans, Australians, Qataris, or Norwegians. Basically, you can buy from whoever has the capacity to fill a tanker. Even Iran is sitting on massive reserves if you really wanted to go there. The beauty of it is that because there are so many players, you’re actually in a position to hunt for the cheapest option available. It’s not like dealing with a single entity like Russia or their state-run Gazprom where you're stuck with whatever they dictate. That’s exactly why those guys try to form cartels in the first place; they’re terrified that if they don't stick together, the competition will drive their prices straight into the ground.

Why is it that the same politicians who essentially handed Germany’s energy security over to Russia on a silver platter—leaving us with zero LNG terminals to our name—are now suddenly landing cushy, high-paying board seats at Russian mega-corporations? You have to wonder if they were actually working for the benefit of their own citizens and the stability of the country, or if they were just setting themselves up for a golden parachute all along. It feels less like public service and more like a long-term career move funded by foreign interests.

It’s pretty obvious from everything we see that Putin doesn't actually care about money for its own sake—to him, cash is just another tool in the kit, a means to an end. And yet, here you are, thinking that in a world filled with guys like him, you can somehow play the game by just obsessing over the bottom line. That is a hell of a strategy, really. I mean, if you're planning on running for office, I’m sure Putin will be more than happy to throw his support behind you during the election.

The combatants love to sing their little anthems about how vital they are, acting like they’re locked in some grand, mythical struggle for the soul of the nation. It’s all very dramatic, isn't it? But while they're busy playing hero, the actual people on the ground are stuck agonizing over every single cent, forced to make impossible choices between buying a gallon of milk or a bunch of bananas. They’re out there organizing bake sales and abstinence challenges just to scrape by, all while the leaders are quietly padding their own bank accounts behind closed doors.

So, where does that leave us now? You can complain about all the cynicism in the world all you want, but look at the underlying logic here: people act like if anyone makes a dime off something, the whole thing is instantly branded a scam. It’s this immediate, reflexive judgment where if there’s a profit margin involved, then profit is automatically labeled the sole driver behind the scenes, and everything else is just some sugary coating meant to sell a lie to the masses. It’s this pervasive, almost universal mindset that we see everywhere in America today. We hide behind this veil of skepticism to deny the possibility that a good cause or a positive movement could actually be supported by, or even sponsored by, someone making money. Because let’s face it—if you dig deep enough into any organization or initiative, you’re going to find a profit motive somewhere. And because of that, people decide the entire endeavor loses its soul and becomes invalid. It’s a lazy way of thinking that shuts down any nuance.

Even when you look at the actual money involved, what are we even supposed to do with this? Take the way the US handles Ukraine—it’s not like we’re just selling them weapons; we’re basically handing them massive piles of equipment for free, all while tossing in heaps of extra cash on top. When you sit down and crunch the numbers, subtracting everything else, it turns out that American taxpayers are footing the lion's share of this entire bill. We’re talking billions upon billions of dollars already gone. If anyone is getting fleeced here, it’s the average American taxpayer. The only people actually seeing a return on this investment are the owners of the big US defense contractors, while the working class picks up the tab. And who owns those companies? Mostly just massive American pension funds. So, in a weird way, nobody really wins; a few people get filthy rich, but can we please just focus on the real issues? Instead, these profiteering elites are scattering our attention everywhere, treating us like we're some sort of disorganized labor union instead of a nation. It’s the same story with oil prices—they stay high for everyone because it’s a global market, though obviously, it feels a bit lighter at the pump for Americans since we don't deal with the same heavy tax hikes they do elsewhere. Sure, gas and energy demand is going to skyrocket because of this mess, but where does that leave us? Did Putin really, truly have to invade Ukraine? It honestly feels like he didn't need to at all. Just look at the sheer amount of propaganda and so-called "experts" they've mobilized to manufacture reasons why this was an absolute necessity. It feels incredibly staged; if there were actually a legitimate, powerful reason behind it, they wouldn't need to work this hard to sell us on the narrative.

It’s really not that complicated, honestly. You have corrupt politicians landing cushy sinecure jobs at places like Gazprom, and yet you’re standing there claiming they were actually working for the people or sabotaging LNG terminals for the greater good? Give me a break. Having more options for gas procurement—which, let’s be real, is an absolute strategic necessity for Germany—is somehow supposed to be bad for a nation? According to this logic, we should just rely on one single country as our primary energy source, even if that country is ruled by a dictator and a KGB-style regime that poisons its own people with nerve agents, just because the price tag is a little lower. If anyone ever tries to change that dependency, we’ll just turn around and tell them they’re trying to force expensive gas on the country, effectively shutting them down. It’s all very clever and deeply profound stuff, clearly written by someone in that special "too smart for their own good" category.
Joshua Myers432 Joshua Myers432 Regular
285 messages
joined Feb 2011
#3284 ·
Amanda Allen4 said:Look, it doesn't matter how the war is being fought or who is pulling the strings behind the scenes—what matters is who the aggressor is and who is defending themselves. For any rational person, there shouldn't be even a shred of doubt about that.

So what is there actually to argue about? You have a sovereign nation with internationally recognized borders being invaded by a foreign military. No matter which angle you take, the identity of the aggressor is obvious.

It’s funny how when Americans invade other countries, they use all sorts of logical gymnastics to label themselves "liberators"—but that's a whole different conversation. 😁
Brenda Murphy3 Brenda Murphy3 Regular
361 messages
joined Mar 2023
#3285 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:That’s 19th or 20th-century thinking. Modern warfare has evolved; it spans everything from economic warfare to cyber strikes.

In reality, we can all agree that the actual war is being fought between Russia and Ukraine—a nation armed with NATO equipment and receiving every possible bit of NATO support, just without the boots on the ground. Even the training for Ukrainian soldiers is happening within NATO countries.

I don't think anyone would even agree with that point, because frankly, it's just plain wrong.

Look, "NATO weaponry" includes thousands of supersonic fighters, bombers, cruisers, aircraft carriers, submarines, ballistic missiles, and an insane amount of high-tech gear that isn't even being used in Ukraine against Russia...

Sure, some NATO countries are sending weapons over to Ukraine, but that is nowhere near a complete arsenal. Saying Ukraine is "armed with NATO weapons" is a massive stretch... they've only got a tiny fraction of it.
Joshua Myers432 Joshua Myers432 Regular
285 messages
joined Feb 2011
#3286 ·
Brenda Murphy3 said:I don't think anyone would even agree with that point, because frankly, it's just plain wrong.

Look, "NATO weaponry" includes thousands of supersonic fighters, bombers, cruisers, aircraft carriers, submarines, ballistic missiles, and an insane amount of high-tech gear that isn't even being used in Ukraine against Russia...

Sure, some NATO countries are sending weapons over to Ukraine, but that is nowhere near a complete arsenal. Saying Ukraine is "armed with NATO weapons" is a massive stretch... they've only got a tiny fraction of it.

Look, I never claimed they had the whole damn arsenal. Besides, you can't just hand someone modern tech without months of training. You think someone can just jump into an F-16 or a submarine and start operating it without specialized instruction?

That’s why most of what the Ukrainians receive is legacy Soviet-era equipment (aside from small arms)—because they can actually use it immediately. The catch is that those stockpiles are incredibly limited.
Gerald Torres84 Gerald Torres84 Active Member
118 messages
joined Oct 2015
#3287 ·
It’s all pretty obvious at this point... It was an artificial pump right before the attack—it hit $140—and now we’re seeing the massive deflationary dump where it sits at $67 currently. As long as this war drags on, things are just going to keep sliding downward. Edit: A colleague or a moderator removed the link to that article about the Ruble.
Gerald Torres84 Gerald Torres84 Active Member
118 messages
joined Oct 2015
#3288 ·
Anthony Perez9 said:As if being 3x stronger than Germany matters. Compared to the USA, they're at least 5x weaker! 😂

The issue is clearly located within their own minds.
Let us focus our efforts on constructing the most powerful rockets in existence and leveling anyone who dares stand in our way. Who cares about the economy?
Dana Robinson4 Dana Robinson4 Active Member
181 messages
joined Jul 2010
#3289 ·
hiddeneagle98 said:
Ilana I can't even begin to wrap my head around this. It’s like watching someone try to build a skyscraper out of wet cardboard and then acting shocked when the whole thing collapses under its own weight. You see it all the time—people making these sweeping, half-baked claims without ever stepping back to look at the actual mechanics of how things work in the real world. It’s one thing to have an opinion, but it’s another thing entirely to be so confidently wrong that you actually believe your own nonsense. Honestly, it reminds me of those amateur pundits on cable news who talk for twenty minutes straight without saying a single coherent thing, just circling the drain of their own logic until the audience eventually tunes out from sheer exhaustion. You can't just ignore the fundamental rules of the game and expect to win, no matter how much noise you make.
Sure, all that sympathy is nice and all, but let’s be real—it doesn’t actually change anything. It’s like being told "sorry you're hungry" while someone's standing there holding the only key to the pantry. Nobody here, and honestly nobody in your life, even gets a say in whether you're allowed to make your own choices or not. Everything is decided by those people at the top who decide when they want to cut off your access to cheaper gas just so they can force you into buying the expensive stuff. It’s a rigged game; they create the dependency on one thing just so they can hike the price on exactly what you need to survive, and we're all just stuck following their lead.

You got any other options?

The whole situation with importing oil via pipelines directly from Russia is just a massive headache that we can't seem to shake. It’s like trying to rely on a neighbor you don't trust to keep your furnace running all winter; you know deep down that at any moment, they could just turn the valve and leave you shivering in the dark just to prove a point. We're essentially tethering our energy security to a volatile geopolitical wildcard, and honestly, it feels like we're walking a tightrope without a net. You look at the infrastructure we have in place, and instead of diversifying or building something truly independent, we’re stuck leaning on these massive, outdated conduits that give one specific foreign power way too much leverage over our domestic stability. It’s frustrating because it feels less like a strategic choice and more like we're being held hostage by a supply chain that was built on shaky ground to begin with.

Then there's the whole business of importing crude through those massive tanker terminals, kind of like how they operate out of the Port of Corpus Christi or the refineries down in Louisiana. It’s a completely different beast compared to just pulling stuff from a pipeline. You're talking about deep-water access, massive infrastructure, and having to deal with the sheer logistics of docking these gargantuan vessels. It changes the entire flow of the supply chain when you're relying on those coastal hubs to feed the refineries.

Look, if you follow principle A, all you're doing is handing over the keys to the kingdom and making yourself completely beholden to Russia. It’s like building your entire house on someone else's land and then acting surprised when they decide to charge you rent just for existing. You aren't gaining any leverage; you're just creating a permanent dependency that leaves you with zero room to maneuver when things inevitably get messy.

Under principle B, you basically have the green light to buy fuel from just about anyone capable of filling up a tanker truck. It’s wide open.

Look, Principle B is a bit of a headache because, let's be honest, most suppliers out there operate like they're part of some shady little cartel, just squeezing you whenever they feel like it. But if you step back and look at the big picture, you’ve still got a whole lineup of different vendors to choose from, so you aren't really stuck hanging on the teat of any single one of them for survival.

It’s the exact same logic you apply to LNG. You either pull gas through a pipeline from someone like Russia—or maybe Algeria or Norway—or you have an LNG terminal that lets you source from the Americans, Australians, Qataris, or Norwegians. Basically, you can buy from whoever has the capacity to fill a tanker. Even Iran is sitting on massive reserves if you really wanted to go there. The beauty of it is that because there are so many players, you’re actually in a position to hunt for the cheapest option available. It’s not like dealing with a single entity like Russia or their state-run Gazprom where you're stuck with whatever they dictate. That’s exactly why those guys try to form cartels in the first place; they’re terrified that if they don't stick together, the competition will drive their prices straight into the ground.

Why is it that the same politicians who essentially handed Germany’s energy security over to Russia on a silver platter—leaving us with zero LNG terminals to our name—are now suddenly landing cushy, high-paying board seats at Russian mega-corporations? You have to wonder if they were actually working for the benefit of their own citizens and the stability of the country, or if they were just setting themselves up for a golden parachute all along. It feels less like public service and more like a long-term career move funded by foreign interests.

It’s pretty obvious from everything we see that Putin doesn't actually care about money for its own sake—to him, cash is just another tool in the kit, a means to an end. And yet, here you are, thinking that in a world filled with guys like him, you can somehow play the game by just obsessing over the bottom line. That is a hell of a strategy, really. I mean, if you're planning on running for office, I’m sure Putin will be more than happy to throw his support behind you during the election.

The combatants love to sing their little anthems about how vital they are, acting like they’re locked in some grand, mythical struggle for the soul of the nation. It’s all very dramatic, isn't it? But while they're busy playing hero, the actual people on the ground are stuck agonizing over every single cent, forced to make impossible choices between buying a gallon of milk or a bunch of bananas. They’re out there organizing bake sales and abstinence challenges just to scrape by, all while the leaders are quietly padding their own bank accounts behind closed doors.

So, where does that leave us now? You can complain about all the cynicism in the world all you want, but look at the underlying logic here: people act like if anyone makes a dime off something, the whole thing is instantly branded a scam. It’s this immediate, reflexive judgment where if there’s a profit margin involved, then profit is automatically labeled the sole driver behind the scenes, and everything else is just some sugary coating meant to sell a lie to the masses. It’s this pervasive, almost universal mindset that we see everywhere in America today. We hide behind this veil of skepticism to deny the possibility that a good cause or a positive movement could actually be supported by, or even sponsored by, someone making money. Because let’s face it—if you dig deep enough into any organization or initiative, you’re going to find a profit motive somewhere. And because of that, people decide the entire endeavor loses its soul and becomes invalid. It’s a lazy way of thinking that shuts down any nuance.

Even when you look at the actual money involved, what are we even supposed to do with this? Take the way the US handles Ukraine—it’s not like we’re just selling them weapons; we’re basically handing them massive piles of equipment for free, all while tossing in heaps of extra cash on top. When you sit down and crunch the numbers, subtracting everything else, it turns out that American taxpayers are footing the lion's share of this entire bill. We’re talking billions upon billions of dollars already gone. If anyone is getting fleeced here, it’s the average American taxpayer. The only people actually seeing a return on this investment are the owners of the big US defense contractors, while the working class picks up the tab. And who owns those companies? Mostly just massive American pension funds. So, in a weird way, nobody really wins; a few people get filthy rich, but can we please just focus on the real issues? Instead, these profiteering elites are scattering our attention everywhere, treating us like we're some sort of disorganized labor union instead of a nation. It’s the same story with oil prices—they stay high for everyone because it’s a global market, though obviously, it feels a bit lighter at the pump for Americans since we don't deal with the same heavy tax hikes they do elsewhere. Sure, gas and energy demand is going to skyrocket because of this mess, but where does that leave us? Did Putin really, truly have to invade Ukraine? It honestly feels like he didn't need to at all. Just look at the sheer amount of propaganda and so-called "experts" they've mobilized to manufacture reasons why this was an absolute necessity. It feels incredibly staged; if there were actually a legitimate, powerful reason behind it, they wouldn't need to work this hard to sell us on the narrative.

It’s really not that complicated, honestly. You have corrupt politicians landing cushy sinecure jobs at places like Gazprom, and yet you’re standing there claiming they were actually working for the people or sabotaging LNG terminals for the greater good? Give me a break. Having more options for gas procurement—which, let’s be real, is an absolute strategic necessity for Germany—is somehow supposed to be bad for a nation? According to this logic, we should just rely on one single country as our primary energy source, even if that country is ruled by a dictator and a KGB-style regime that poisons its own people with nerve agents, just because the price tag is a little lower. If anyone ever tries to change that dependency, we’ll just turn around and tell them they’re trying to force expensive gas on the country, effectively shutting them down. It’s all very clever and deeply profound stuff, clearly written by someone in that special "too smart for their own good" category.

It isn't even remotely the same thing.

Whether you're pumping oil into a tanker or a pipeline, it’s all essentially the same deal, isn't it?

But with gas, if you want to put it in a tanker, you have to go through the massive effort of super-cooling it first, only to have to reheat it once it reaches its final destination.
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#3290 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:That’s 19th or 20th-century thinking. Modern warfare has evolved; it spans everything from economic warfare to cyber strikes.

In reality, we can all agree that the actual war is being fought between Russia and Ukraine—a nation armed with NATO equipment and receiving every possible bit of NATO support, just without the boots on the ground. Even the training for Ukrainian soldiers is happening within NATO countries.

That’s just using the word "war" metaphorically. It isn't anything new; the technology has just changed.

People have always used economics, propaganda, or whatever else was at hand to fight for dominance, whether between individuals or entire groups.

Language is fluid, but I'd argue we should still reserve the literal definition of "war" specifically for physical, armed conflict.
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#3291 ·
Automobile sales in Russia have plummeted by a staggering 78% during the fourth month, marking what is quite possibly the most catastrophic decline in automotive sales since record-keeping even began.

To put this collapse into perspective, a mere 32,706 vehicles were sold, whereas during the same period last year, the market saw a substantial 151,964 units move off the lots.

Even more telling is the situation at Ford, which was forced into a collective annual shutdown from April through late December simply because they couldn't get their hands on necessary production parts; consequently, they managed to sell only 8,506 vehicles, also suffering a massive 78% drop in sales.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/auto/news/2...v-rossii-upali
Carl Lee27 Carl Lee27 Regular
368 messages
joined Feb 2024
#3292 ·
Anthony Hill5 said:Automobile sales in Russia have plummeted by a staggering 78% during the fourth month, marking what is quite possibly the most catastrophic decline in automotive sales since record-keeping even began.

To put this collapse into perspective, a mere 32,706 vehicles were sold, whereas during the same period last year, the market saw a substantial 151,964 units move off the lots.

Even more telling is the situation at Ford, which was forced into a collective annual shutdown from April through late December simply because they couldn't get their hands on necessary production parts; consequently, they managed to sell only 8,506 vehicles, also suffering a massive 78% drop in sales.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/auto/news/2...v-rossii-upali

The idea seems to be that they'll produce fewer cars, but hopefully higher quality ones. It's all about making a comeback for a solid, classic
Moskvitch.
slyfox43 slyfox43 Regular
292 messages
joined May 2023
#3293 ·
There will be significantly less for them to actually break.
Amanda Allen4 Amanda Allen4 Active Member
238 messages
joined Feb 2013
#3294 ·
slyfox43 said:There will be significantly less for them to actually break.

Exactly! That’s precisely why I went with a solar-powered watch—it simply never breaks.
Dennis Price Dennis Price Active Member
86 messages
joined Mar 2022
#3295 ·
The black market for foreign currency in Russia is running at about a 30-40 percent premium right now. Politicians steal from their own people during wartime—it’s just how things work there.
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#3296 ·
Noah Martin2 said:@Putin apologists and all you other doom-mongers obsessed with cheap energy
It isn’t as simple as just "cheaper energy" once you factor in the geopolitical fallout. Of course we want lower prices—honestly, how do you even envision that working when crude is sitting at $105 a barrel and diesel is hitting $4.50 a gallon? What exactly is your logic there?
As for your gas alternatives... I have a wood stove in my garage. Look, I get it—it's a hassle, it's dirty, and it doesn't offer the luxury of natural gas—but thanks for the concern, I think I'll manage.
The scope of this issue is far too broad to boil down to such a simplistic question. Even Biden hit the nail on the head when he noted that while the war in Ukraine is expensive, the alternative would be exponentially more costly.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using Reddit

What do Putin fans and concern trolls have to do with any of this...

Energy prices started climbing the very first day of Biden's term, and frankly, he and his band of green-agenda zealots are the ones to blame here.

It's responsible for the energy spikes, the inflation, and by extension, this whole war in Ukraine.

You talk about alternatives to gas... well, I've got a wood stove in my garage. I'll admit, it's a hassle, it's messy, and it definitely doesn't have the convenience of natural gas, but thanks for the concern—I'll manage.

Do you actually have enough wood on hand? I do—enough for the next few winters—plus I own my own woods...

Do you really think the price of firewood won't climb too?

So, the grandmaster Biden was right to say that while the war in Ukraine is expensive, the alternative would be exponentially more costly.

Biden isn't some grandmaster; he's just a senile wreck who needs constant supervision. Half the time, I don't even think he knows where he is.
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#3297 ·
Anthony Hill5 said:Automobile sales in Russia have plummeted by a staggering 78% during the fourth month, marking what is quite possibly the most catastrophic decline in automotive sales since record-keeping even began.

To put this collapse into perspective, a mere 32,706 vehicles were sold, whereas during the same period last year, the market saw a substantial 151,964 units move off the lots.

Even more telling is the situation at Ford, which was forced into a collective annual shutdown from April through late December simply because they couldn't get their hands on necessary production parts; consequently, they managed to sell only 8,506 vehicles, also suffering a massive 78% drop in sales.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/auto/news/2...v-rossii-upali


I guess sanctions take some time to really hit their stride.
The fallout usually lingers for years after the measures are even lifted.

It seems to me that the people who are most vocal at first about how sanctions won't matter much... they're usually the exact same ones whining the loudest once the reality sets in.
In my experience, those tend to be the most easily led sheep.
Dana Robinson4 Dana Robinson4 Active Member
181 messages
joined Jul 2010
#3298 ·
If there’s a dip of a million car sales in Russia, should we really view that as a setback for the nation itself, or is it simply a blow to the manufacturers?
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#3299 ·
Neither side is going under because of this, but honestly—lower corporate profits are always easier to swallow than a drop in the standard of living.
Brenda Murphy3 Brenda Murphy3 Regular
361 messages
joined Mar 2023
#3300 ·
Dana Robinson4 said:If there’s a dip of a million car sales in Russia, should we really view that as a setback for the nation itself, or is it simply a blow to the manufacturers?

It’s a hit for both, but obviously way harder on Russia.

And let's be real, it isn't even a million—the actual number is much lower, though maybe if you look at cumulative sales over a year, you could stretch it to that.
The impact on Russia is massive because a huge chunk of those vehicles were actually being built domestically. When car sales tank, capital stops circulating, which drags down the entire economy, and so on and so forth... it's just one headache after another. As for the car companies themselves? They’ll weather a slump in the Russian market way more easily than the country will. But here's the kicker: the cars aren't the real issue here. They're just a symptom. You can't look at auto sales in a vacuum; they're just a flashing neon sign showing exactly how much the Russian economy is stalling.

(Ford and Toyota are going to feel the sting from the Russian market specifically, but looking at the big picture—I just checked the stats—the whole Russian market doesn't even account for 2% of global sales... the big manufacturers will survive this just fine, no need to panic...)

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