Sanctions on Russia

What are the odds they actually slap sanctions on India and China because of all that Russian oil they're buying?

Amanda Allen4 said:Putin has disappointed me—though let’s be clear, he isn't some absolute autocrat like Peter the Great was; he's just one part of an elite group steering modern Russian policy. A "first among equals," if you will.

Back in 2007, Time magazine named him "Person of the Year" because of how much he did to integrate the Russian economy into the global market.

Of course, any time state-owned capital gets privatized, it creates tycoons—Russia was no exception there—but that isn't a matter of global concern, and the world doesn't meddle in that. What the world reacts to is when a nation's aggressive actions cross its borders and threaten other sovereign states—and that is precisely the war Russia is currently waging in Ukraine.

So, how did the world respond to the Russian aggression against Ukraine?

The UN resolution condemning the attack on Ukraine was supported by 141 member states, with only 5 voting against and 35 abstaining. That provides a very clear picture of the current global landscape and how the international community will likely handle similar actions from any other country in the future.

Putin himself explicitly stated that Ukraine is actually Russia and that this war is about reclaiming what was taken from them. I think that says it all—there is no longer any doubt regarding the motives behind the aggression against Ukraine.

Russia has always been a colonial power that expanded through land grabs in its immediate neighborhood, and it poses no threat to countries far removed from it. This explains why many nations that condemned the invasion of Ukraine are hesitant to join sanctions that would negatively impact their own economies.

The criteria for "Person of the Year" or "Person of the Century" speak volumes... and no, it's definitely not "normal" for privatization to just birth oligarchs.
Combine those guys with a few other factors and you get a "perfect storm"—an aggressive, authoritarian regime obsessed with territorial expansion (don't forget, we're talking about a resource-rent economy backed by massive military power and a total lack of "democratic oversight and checks and balances").

The world's reaction is just "hindsight is 20/20" once everyone is already gone.

Those folks at Time have a sick sense of humor... they gave Hitler the exact same honor back in 1938.

Donna Harris11 said:What are the odds they actually slap sanctions on India and China because of all that Russian oil they're buying?

Zero. Absolutely zero—assuming there’s anyone left with half a brain in the US or its EU vassal states. But looking at the absolute clowns running the show lately, I wouldn't rule out a total disaster.

Donna Harris11 said:What are the odds they actually slap sanctions on India and China because of all that Russian oil they're buying?

Honestly, once we ramp up alternative energy production outside of Russia, India and China are going to have to start acting like civilized players in the global economy when it comes to dealing with terrorist states. Unless, of course, they’d rather deal with massive unemployment and economic shutdowns again.

In the short term, nobody really benefits from a massive energy shortage, so right now everyone is just focused on making sure those countries don't actively back territorial annexations. For the moment, that's holding steady.

Donna Harris11 said:What are the odds they actually slap sanctions on India and China because of all that Russian oil they're buying?

What’s the chance Russia follows China's lead—making education and scientific research a top priority—so they can actually compete with China and the West long-term, both tech-wise and in terms of living standards?

Zero. The ruling kleptocracy isn't about to let go of their petrodollars that easily.

rustywalker82 said:Honestly, once we ramp up alternative energy production outside of Russia, India and China are going to have to start acting like civilized players in the global economy when it comes to dealing with terrorist states. Unless, of course, they’d rather deal with massive unemployment and economic shutdowns again.

In the short term, nobody really benefits from a massive energy shortage, so right now everyone is just focused on making sure those countries don't actively back territorial annexations. For the moment, that's holding steady.

So, what you're saying is we should expect India and China to follow suit and join the rest of the democratic, civilized West in boycotting Saudi oil pretty soon?
Oh, wait...

darkdriver said:So, what you're saying is we should expect India and China to follow suit and join the rest of the democratic, civilized West in boycotting Saudi oil pretty soon?
Oh, wait...

Look, you can't just boycott Saudi oil without having some kind of alternative production ready to go. That’s why they're getting a free pass right now.
If they actually started invading other countries and grabbing territory in the meantime, things would get way uglier, way faster—the kind of stuff we already know the Russians are prone to doing for obvious reasons.

analogbear5 said:What’s the chance Russia follows China's lead—making education and scientific research a top priority—so they can actually compete with China and the West long-term, both tech-wise and in terms of living standards?

Zero. The ruling kleptocracy isn't about to let go of their petrodollars that easily.

Shouldn't they look to anyone else besides China for inspiration?

Didn't you guys all claim China would need another 30 or 40 years—if they ever actually make it—to catch up to the West? I mean, wasn't the consensus mostly that they’re just basically glorified photocopiers of Western tech, churning out cheap, low-quality junk?
First off, regarding the idea that your average Russian—who, let's be honest, most of you think is just out there grazing in fields, digging holes in the ground to go to the bathroom, melting glacier ice because there's no running water, and spreading lard on bread because they've never even heard of Nutella—is going to suffer because of these sanctions... yeah, right.
You guys are honestly such a textbook example of hypocrisy.

darkdriver said:Didn't you guys all claim China would need another 30 or 40 years—if they ever actually make it—to catch up to the West? I mean, wasn't the consensus mostly that they’re just basically glorified photocopiers of Western tech, churning out cheap, low-quality junk?
First off, regarding the idea that your average Russian—who, let's be honest, most of you think is just out there grazing in fields, digging holes in the ground to go to the bathroom, melting glacier ice because there's no running water, and spreading lard on bread because they've never even heard of Nutella—is going to suffer because of these sanctions... yeah, right.
You guys are honestly such a textbook example of hypocrisy.

I honestly don't know if it's even possible to pack this much pathetic whining into such a short comment.🤔👍
LP

An excellent post. It gave me a good laugh.

darkdriver said:Didn't you guys all claim China would need another 30 or 40 years—if they ever actually make it—to catch up to the West? I mean, wasn't the consensus mostly that they’re just basically glorified photocopiers of Western tech, churning out cheap, low-quality junk?
First off, regarding the idea that your average Russian—who, let's be honest, most of you think is just out there grazing in fields, digging holes in the ground to go to the bathroom, melting glacier ice because there's no running water, and spreading lard on bread because they've never even heard of Nutella—is going to suffer because of these sanctions... yeah, right.
You guys are honestly such a textbook example of hypocrisy.

Not quite. China is a developed superpower; Russia is still a developing nation.

Bryan Booth82 said:I honestly don't know if it's even possible to pack this much pathetic whining into such a short comment.🤔👍
LP

Just look at how those comrades are pushing for sanctions
Timberlake is basically just a total pushover for all your emotional outbursts
Seriously, you guys have everything—from tiny little bursts of drama to full-on religious litanies
LP
P.S.
I get it, though... you guys can't agree on what was actually said because if you did, half of your arguments would just fall apart

darkdriver said:Just look at how those comrades are pushing for sanctions
Timberlake is basically just a total pushover for all your emotional outbursts
Seriously, you guys have everything—from tiny little bursts of drama to full-on religious litanies
LP
P.S.
I get it, though... you guys can't agree on what was actually said because if you did, half of your arguments would just fall apart

Honestly, even after reading through this again, I still haven't been able to wrap my head around what you were actually trying to say.

LP

Bryan Booth82 said:Honestly, even after reading through this again, I still haven't been able to wrap my head around what you were actually trying to say.

LP

I believe you
LP

darkdriver said:I believe you
LP

👍
Since you clearly think I’m just incapable of grasping the topic, perhaps someone else—someone who actually managed to follow my logic—could explain what I was trying to say? I’ll leave that to the experts. With all due respect.
LP

darkdriver said:Didn't you guys all claim China would need another 30 or 40 years—if they ever actually make it—to catch up to the West? I mean, wasn't the consensus mostly that they’re just basically glorified photocopiers of Western tech, churning out cheap, low-quality junk?
First off, regarding the idea that your average Russian—who, let's be honest, most of you think is just out there grazing in fields, digging holes in the ground to go to the bathroom, melting glacier ice because there's no running water, and spreading lard on bread because they've never even heard of Nutella—is going to suffer because of these sanctions... yeah, right.
You guys are honestly such a textbook example of hypocrisy.

I never actually said that about China.
If anything, I think we’re heading straight toward a multipolar world defined by two superpowers: the USA and China. A lot of people don't see it coming, but I have for a long time. China has been flying under the radar, playing the long game with incredible patience. They won't fall for an epochal blunder like the invasion of Ukraine. In fact, they effectively put Taiwan on the back burner once they saw how the world reacted to that invasion.
Furthermore, the CIA admitted ages ago that they are completely blind when it comes to China, and they're the only ones. Maybe they're lying, or maybe it's a calculated statement, but it's a distinction they only make for China. They seem to see Russia more clearly than they see Ukraine.
The Americans also view China as a far greater threat. I agree with them, though I don't believe they can stop it anymore.

Bryan Booth82 said:👍
Since you clearly think I’m just incapable of grasping the topic, perhaps someone else—someone who actually managed to follow my logic—could explain what I was trying to say? I’ll leave that to the experts. With all due respect.
LP

Basically trying to use a straw man argument—fighting against some twisted, exaggerated version of an opinion held by imaginary people. He's leaning on humor to try and make his point hit harder.

As a follow-up, this type usually just claims they weren't understood or that their opponent lacks a sense of humor.

Usually, these guys are born ready—not hatched from eggs.

rowdytiger13 said:I never actually said that about China.
If anything, I think we’re heading straight toward a multipolar world defined by two superpowers: the USA and China. A lot of people don't see it coming, but I have for a long time. China has been flying under the radar, playing the long game with incredible patience. They won't fall for an epochal blunder like the invasion of Ukraine. In fact, they effectively put Taiwan on the back burner once they saw how the world reacted to that invasion.
Furthermore, the CIA admitted ages ago that they are completely blind when it comes to China, and they're the only ones. Maybe they're lying, or maybe it's a calculated statement, but it's a distinction they only make for China. They seem to see Russia more clearly than they see Ukraine.
The Americans also view China as a far greater threat. I agree with them, though I don't believe they can stop it anymore.

👍
Look, I wasn't aiming at anyone specifically—not even you—but there are plenty of folks on this forum claiming that Chinese people will basically end up stuck in the Middle Ages if they don't have Western know-how and stuff like that.

darkdriver said:👍
Look, I wasn't aiming at anyone specifically—not even you—but there are plenty of folks on this forum claiming that Chinese people will basically end up stuck in the Middle Ages if they don't have Western know-how and stuff like that.

Then show me the quote.