Local meetup for budo practitioners?

TataStaMuJe said:I get where you're coming from.

hit me up if you ever want to have a deep dive conversation 😁 if not, no big deal 🙂

boldmason42 said:I’ve also noticed this massive wave of fear everywhere—people are terrified of absolutely everything! They’re scared to think for themselves, scared to speak up, scared to be vulnerable, scared of how they’ll be perceived, and so on and so forth. It’s like everyone is just soaked in anxiety, like a bunch of sour pickles... I don't even have to look far from my own life to see it. For my entire life, instead of actually building myself up, it feels like I’ve spent all my energy trying to strip away these weird, unwanted layers and then just patching up the wounds left behind. And then, hopefully, I can move on. But trying to cut away or remove something from someone else? That gets "complicated" real fast. To me, it feels like trying to pull a thorn out of a wild animal's backside. What are you supposed to do then? Nothing. I guess they just have to live in symbiosis with that thorn, or maybe the hand of God will reach down and pull it out, whatever that means. Who knows how many of those thorns I’m carrying myself without even realizing it... You don't really get easy answers to these kinds of questions. Maybe you just outgrow them. Maybe you just learn to live with the uncertainty without forcing an answer.

What do you guys think? 🙂

Maybe someone's thorn or their suffering is actually there for a specific reason.

Perhaps we should only help others with their own thorns if some sort of "spirit" or abstract force points us toward them.

Maybe we shouldn't be pulling someone else's thorn at all, but rather just guiding them so they can pull it out using their own strength. If we do it for them, maybe it's just us who moves forward while the person we helped ends up falling behind.

It’s possible that whoever installed that "foreign programming" allows a person to free themselves through their own effort, but will heavily penalize anyone who tries to remove those installations from others. If one chicken escapes the coop, it’s fine because one more bird doesn't change much. But if one chicken helps everyone else escape, that won't go unnoticed and will definitely come with consequences.

Paul Diaz54 said:If talking was useless, we wouldn't have language or the ability to speak—and if solitude was all we needed, we wouldn't be this social species. Honestly, I don't get this glorification of being alone. Is it just fear of actually connecting with people or what? I like my space sometimes, just like everyone else, but being alone 24/7 is more of a mental health issue than some spiritual breakthrough. Seems to me like "spirituality" is often just a fancy word for being self-obsessed.

People *do* resist good. If they didn't, the world wouldn't be such a mess, people wouldn't be crushed by negativity, and those bringing light wouldn't be persecuted—like Jesus and many others. But hey, everyone's free to agree or disagree with whatever they want. 😁

Conversation can be a useful tool, provided a person can actually control it. If they can't, the tool kind of takes over and goes haywire.
It’s almost like imagining a power drill that refuses to shut off—one that keeps spinning at max speed, and after it finishes the job it was meant to do, it just keeps drilling into every wall it can reach. I think most normal people deal with this kind of verbal struggle. Once they finish saying what they intended to say, they just keep talking to themselves inside their heads until they fall asleep.

While that internal dialogue is running, all your mental resources are tied up in it, which means you can't use them for true free will or conscious perception.
Talking, both externally and internally, triggers thoughts. Those thoughts trigger emotions, and those emotions drive our actions. Most people have almost no influence over this chain reaction. To actually act with genuine free will, one has to break the link between thought, emotion, and action. The first step is usually silence—starting with the outside world because that's easier, and then moving inward. An additional complication is that the intellect can't function without internal speech, and most Americans are deeply identified with their rational minds. Over time, you lose any chance for direct insight and end up forced to perceive the world solely through logic. If you think the intellect is inherently good, just remember that a purely rational person is the one who designs weapons and goes to war. The atomic bomb or the machine gun are products of pure reason.

Furthermore, there is something beyond the individual that listens. It doesn't just hear what is spoken aloud, but also the internal monologue, and it responds by creating circumstances that might not necessarily benefit the speaker if they lack true willpower.

Once, and if, a person reaches a level of free and conscious will, conversation (and the intellect) becomes a useful tool once again—something you can simply switch off once its job is done. At that point, it stops generating endless unnecessary thoughts and doesn't drain resources on constant emotions and actions. When you achieve that stillness and consciously choose a single thought, all those freed-up resources become available to it. That's when a thought gains real power and becomes a law or an intention.

Solitude creates the right environment to free up your perception. It also makes it easier to quiet the internal chatter since there is no one to talk to. This makes it simpler to turn your attention toward the inner component of speech and gradually dial it down.
Interacting with others consumes energy. When you do something for someone, say something to them, or otherwise affect them, you are essentially giving away a piece of your personalized energy. The same goes for how others affect you. These interactions add new elements to your mental inventory, taking up space that could be better used if a person had free, conscious will to decide what stays part of their core identity. At the end of the day, I think every person should try to clear out that new inventory and discard the "energy" picked up from others; otherwise, over time, you just become a messy blend of everyone else's parts rather than your own. Don't forget about the lack of awareness, will, and energy, which, when combined with all these external influences, can turn a person into a trash can where everyone throws whatever they want, even though they were naturally meant to be a container for something useful. After a while, the inside gets so cluttered with junk that it becomes impossible to clean out, mostly because even the shovel you'd use to clean it is buried somewhere deep under the mess.

Regarding this whole idea of resisting what is good... I suppose if free will doesn't actually exist, then there isn't really a choice to be made about whether to resist or to accept things. Most people probably don't have that kind of agency anyway, and it seems to me that when someone does something bad, it isn't even them doing it, but rather some sort of process working through them—sort of like how trash decomposes in a bin labeled "the mind." And if you ask me, the thing that triggers and keeps that whole cycle going is speech, or conversation... which then leads directly to our thoughts, our emotions, and eventually our actions.

And about what you mentioned, that everyone is free to agree or disagree... I think the irony is that almost nobody actually possesses that freedom, mostly because they lack true will, genuine consciousness, or any usable energy. Instead of having freedom, they just have a mind full of mental clutter, and the gases produced by all that decaying junk basically dictate what a person chooses to agree with or reject... in a metaphorical sense, of course.

Paul Diaz54 said:If talking was useless, we wouldn't have language or the ability to speak—and if solitude was all we needed, we wouldn't be this social species. Honestly, I don't get this glorification of being alone. Is it just fear of actually connecting with people or what? I like my space sometimes, just like everyone else, but being alone 24/7 is more of a mental health issue than some spiritual breakthrough. Seems to me like "spirituality" is often just a fancy word for being self-obsessed.

People *do* resist good. If they didn't, the world wouldn't be such a mess, people wouldn't be crushed by negativity, and those bringing light wouldn't be persecuted—like Jesus and many others. But hey, everyone's free to agree or disagree with whatever they want. 😁

Conversation becomes unnecessary the moment true understanding exists. Thought and speech are merely tools, not our actual essence...

I can't quite agree that we are all free to choose whether we agree or disagree with anything. Our perception is conditioned by external factors rather than a simple choice of will...

People aren't to blame for the circumstances they find themselves in, because they can't influence everything regardless. You turn out the way you do based on how you were taught—your heritage, your upbringing, and other environmental factors. In that sense, you aren't responsible for anything initially; true responsibility only emerges through gradual awareness and working toward the good...

Goodness isn't an inherent human default; it's a product of realization. Some might argue that everyone acts for "the good"—their own version of it, within their own capacity. No one sets out to do evil...

Even Jesus said, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do," referring to the one who acted for absolute good...

When we talk about solitude, we often picture someone who is perpetually alone or a hermit who has physically retreated from society. But the point is that we live in a world where we all interact; solitude as a concept doesn't necessarily require physical distance or being cut off from people...

A person who is comfortable being alone can certainly handle being with others, making both situations equally acceptable to them...

But for the person who cannot stand to be alone at all, that's where the trouble starts—when they simply cannot function without the presence of others...😁

coastalfalcon61 As stated by:
Maybe the person who set up this "external installation" intends to let individuals break free through their own grit and effort. But make no mistake—they’ll be the first to lash out at anyone attempting to dismantle those installations for someone else. It’s easy to look the other way when a single chicken escapes the coop; one bird missing doesn't change the bottom line. However, if one chicken starts opening the gate for everyone else, that isn't going to go unnoticed, and there will certainly be consequences.

coastalfalcon61 said:Conversation can be a useful tool, provided a person can actually control it. If they can't, the tool kind of takes over and goes haywire.
It’s almost like imagining a power drill that refuses to shut off—one that keeps spinning at max speed, and after it finishes the job it was meant to do, it just keeps drilling into every wall it can reach. I think most normal people deal with this kind of verbal struggle. Once they finish saying what they intended to say, they just keep talking to themselves inside their heads until they fall asleep.

While that internal dialogue is running, all your mental resources are tied up in it, which means you can't use them for true free will or conscious perception.
Talking, both externally and internally, triggers thoughts. Those thoughts trigger emotions, and those emotions drive our actions. Most people have almost no influence over this chain reaction. To actually act with genuine free will, one has to break the link between thought, emotion, and action. The first step is usually silence—starting with the outside world because that's easier, and then moving inward. An additional complication is that the intellect can't function without internal speech, and most Americans are deeply identified with their rational minds. Over time, you lose any chance for direct insight and end up forced to perceive the world solely through logic. If you think the intellect is inherently good, just remember that a purely rational person is the one who designs weapons and goes to war. The atomic bomb or the machine gun are products of pure reason.

Furthermore, there is something beyond the individual that listens. It doesn't just hear what is spoken aloud, but also the internal monologue, and it responds by creating circumstances that might not necessarily benefit the speaker if they lack true willpower.

Once, and if, a person reaches a level of free and conscious will, conversation (and the intellect) becomes a useful tool once again—something you can simply switch off once its job is done. At that point, it stops generating endless unnecessary thoughts and doesn't drain resources on constant emotions and actions. When you achieve that stillness and consciously choose a single thought, all those freed-up resources become available to it. That's when a thought gains real power and becomes a law or an intention.

Solitude creates the right environment to free up your perception. It also makes it easier to quiet the internal chatter since there is no one to talk to. This makes it simpler to turn your attention toward the inner component of speech and gradually dial it down.
Interacting with others consumes energy. When you do something for someone, say something to them, or otherwise affect them, you are essentially giving away a piece of your personalized energy. The same goes for how others affect you. These interactions add new elements to your mental inventory, taking up space that could be better used if a person had free, conscious will to decide what stays part of their core identity. At the end of the day, I think every person should try to clear out that new inventory and discard the "energy" picked up from others; otherwise, over time, you just become a messy blend of everyone else's parts rather than your own. Don't forget about the lack of awareness, will, and energy, which, when combined with all these external influences, can turn a person into a trash can where everyone throws whatever they want, even though they were naturally meant to be a container for something useful. After a while, the inside gets so cluttered with junk that it becomes impossible to clean out, mostly because even the shovel you'd use to clean it is buried somewhere deep under the mess.

Regarding this whole idea of resisting what is good... I suppose if free will doesn't actually exist, then there isn't really a choice to be made about whether to resist or to accept things. Most people probably don't have that kind of agency anyway, and it seems to me that when someone does something bad, it isn't even them doing it, but rather some sort of process working through them—sort of like how trash decomposes in a bin labeled "the mind." And if you ask me, the thing that triggers and keeps that whole cycle going is speech, or conversation... which then leads directly to our thoughts, our emotions, and eventually our actions.

And about what you mentioned, that everyone is free to agree or disagree... I think the irony is that almost nobody actually possesses that freedom, mostly because they lack true will, genuine consciousness, or any usable energy. Instead of having freedom, they just have a mind full of mental clutter, and the gases produced by all that decaying junk basically dictate what a person chooses to agree with or reject... in a metaphorical sense, of course.

I appreciate the way you break things down. Could you expand on what you actually mean when you say "the one who set up a one-sided installation" and that "there is something beyond man that listens"?

coastalfalcon61 said:Conversation can be a useful tool, provided a person can actually control it. If they can't, the tool kind of takes over and goes haywire.
It’s almost like imagining a power drill that refuses to shut off—one that keeps spinning at max speed, and after it finishes the job it was meant to do, it just keeps drilling into every wall it can reach. I think most normal people deal with this kind of verbal struggle. Once they finish saying what they intended to say, they just keep talking to themselves inside their heads until they fall asleep.

While that internal dialogue is running, all your mental resources are tied up in it, which means you can't use them for true free will or conscious perception.
Talking, both externally and internally, triggers thoughts. Those thoughts trigger emotions, and those emotions drive our actions. Most people have almost no influence over this chain reaction. To actually act with genuine free will, one has to break the link between thought, emotion, and action. The first step is usually silence—starting with the outside world because that's easier, and then moving inward. An additional complication is that the intellect can't function without internal speech, and most Americans are deeply identified with their rational minds. Over time, you lose any chance for direct insight and end up forced to perceive the world solely through logic. If you think the intellect is inherently good, just remember that a purely rational person is the one who designs weapons and goes to war. The atomic bomb or the machine gun are products of pure reason.

Furthermore, there is something beyond the individual that listens. It doesn't just hear what is spoken aloud, but also the internal monologue, and it responds by creating circumstances that might not necessarily benefit the speaker if they lack true willpower.

Once, and if, a person reaches a level of free and conscious will, conversation (and the intellect) becomes a useful tool once again—something you can simply switch off once its job is done. At that point, it stops generating endless unnecessary thoughts and doesn't drain resources on constant emotions and actions. When you achieve that stillness and consciously choose a single thought, all those freed-up resources become available to it. That's when a thought gains real power and becomes a law or an intention.

Solitude creates the right environment to free up your perception. It also makes it easier to quiet the internal chatter since there is no one to talk to. This makes it simpler to turn your attention toward the inner component of speech and gradually dial it down.
Interacting with others consumes energy. When you do something for someone, say something to them, or otherwise affect them, you are essentially giving away a piece of your personalized energy. The same goes for how others affect you. These interactions add new elements to your mental inventory, taking up space that could be better used if a person had free, conscious will to decide what stays part of their core identity. At the end of the day, I think every person should try to clear out that new inventory and discard the "energy" picked up from others; otherwise, over time, you just become a messy blend of everyone else's parts rather than your own. Don't forget about the lack of awareness, will, and energy, which, when combined with all these external influences, can turn a person into a trash can where everyone throws whatever they want, even though they were naturally meant to be a container for something useful. After a while, the inside gets so cluttered with junk that it becomes impossible to clean out, mostly because even the shovel you'd use to clean it is buried somewhere deep under the mess.

Regarding this whole idea of resisting what is good... I suppose if free will doesn't actually exist, then there isn't really a choice to be made about whether to resist or to accept things. Most people probably don't have that kind of agency anyway, and it seems to me that when someone does something bad, it isn't even them doing it, but rather some sort of process working through them—sort of like how trash decomposes in a bin labeled "the mind." And if you ask me, the thing that triggers and keeps that whole cycle going is speech, or conversation... which then leads directly to our thoughts, our emotions, and eventually our actions.

And about what you mentioned, that everyone is free to agree or disagree... I think the irony is that almost nobody actually possesses that freedom, mostly because they lack true will, genuine consciousness, or any usable energy. Instead of having freedom, they just have a mind full of mental clutter, and the gases produced by all that decaying junk basically dictate what a person chooses to agree with or reject... in a metaphorical sense, of course.

That's an interesting observation, just explained through a different lens. Thanks. I would only add that I don't feel like every exchange of energy is a bad thing, especially if a group of people is working together toward a common goal or self-improvement. In that scenario, everyone relies on everyone else; if one person falters, they pull the rest down because the "junk" one person fails to clear out affects the whole group. Or, conversely, one person's clean energy can lift everyone else up.

What you're describing—this constant recapitulation and returning of energy—is a bit more of an individualistic approach, a specific technique, much like self-preservation...

swiftharbor51 said:

coastalfalcon61 As stated by:
Maybe the person who set up this "external installation" intends to let individuals break free through their own grit and effort. But make no mistake—they’ll be the first to lash out at anyone attempting to dismantle those installations for someone else. It’s easy to look the other way when a single chicken escapes the coop; one bird missing doesn't change the bottom line. However, if one chicken starts opening the gate for everyone else, that isn't going to go unnoticed, and there will certainly be consequences.

I appreciate the way you break things down. Could you expand on what you actually mean when you say "the one who set up a one-sided installation" and that "there is something beyond man that listens"?

I suppose I should mention that whenever I try to explain things, I’m usually stuck in what I call my "mindless phase." It’s like, once I finally break my silence and find myself caught up in the usual distractions of everyday life, my speech just starts flowing and my intellect kind of takes a backseat. When I'm in that headspace, I try to make the most of it by channeling all my thoughts, actions, and feelings toward the spiritual path I've chosen during my more conscious moments, so I mostly just end up ruminating on those deeper matters.
So, I guess what I’m writing here might seem like something interesting, but it’s probably just me spinning my wheels and overthinking things while the engine idles, waiting for the driver to get back from his break. 😉

Regarding what you asked me... before I really get into an answer, I think it’s worth considering a few things first. We’re all different people, coming from totally different backgrounds and carrying our own unique histories with us. I've noticed that once someone really latches onto a specific teaching or a particular spiritual path, they tend to stick to that one direction for most of their lives, which can sometimes lead to them getting stuck there. Since I have no way of knowing where you're coming from or what kind of mental framework you're working with, I guess I'll just try to tailor my response to whatever it is you tell me or write to me.

In this particular instance, the other user brought up the idea of a "foreign installation." I suppose that term carries a lot of different meanings depending on which school of thought or belief system you happen to follow. For example, there are some theories suggesting that there are these inorganic entities out there that actually feed off energy, or maybe even the "glow" produced by human consciousness. It’s almost like they gifted humanity with the capacity for reason just so they could keep us in a state of servitude, essentially using us as living batteries, since having a rational mind might prevent a person from truly reaching their full potential.
I guess there’s this whole theory floating around that aliens of reptilian descent were actually the ones who gifted humanity with intelligence, though maybe they only did it so they could keep us trapped in a sort of perpetual servitude to serve their own agendas; some people even suggest that our little brain tucked underneath the larger one is basically the lasting physical evidence of that whole process.
I guess there’s this entirely different school of thought that talks about something called the "kundabuffer"—this supposed organ within the body that isn't even human in origin, which apparently keeps us all so unconscious and foolish. Along those same lines, they teach that a specific number of cosmic laws act upon every single corner of the universe, and the idea is that the more of these laws there are, the harder it becomes to actually evolve. Based on that way of looking at things, I suppose we find ourselves in a pretty disadvantageous position here on Earth because there seems to be such a massive number of these laws constantly acting upon us.
I guess there’s this one teaching that suggests our world is being influenced by the physical manifestations of different spiritual entities—specifically Lucifer, Christ, and Ahriman. From what I understand, Ahriman is basically viewed as an equivalent to what Christians would call Satan, and it seems like a being of that nature thrives on keeping the human subconscious in a state of sleep or unawareness, mostly because that makes it much easier to manipulate people to serve a specific purpose.
I guess there’s this idea floating around that we might just be tiny little components or cells within some massive, sprawling organism—something so unimaginably vast that our minds can't even begin to wrap around it. It’s maybe a bit like thinking of ourselves as a single bacterium living in someone's digestive tract, or perhaps a lone cell in the skin, where to that tiny entity, the human body is its entire universe, different organs represent distant galaxies, and we are essentially its god. We provide everything and give it life because it's built from our own substance. If a few E. coli bacteria are just hanging out in the gut, everything stays peaceful and the "god" isn't even aware they exist, but if they multiply too much and migrate into the bladder causing an infection, then the "god" suddenly becomes very aware of them and decides to wipe them out with antibiotics because they've become a nuisance, even though that same god was the one who allowed them to live in the first place. I suppose if all the cells in an organism stay within their intended boundaries, everything works fine, but if those cells start wandering where they don't belong and keep multiplying uncontrollably against the needs of the body, that's what we call a tumor, which the person then tries to remove or kill off. You probably couldn't even detect a single cancer cell on its own, and it wouldn't cause any harm, but once you get enough of them together, things definitely go wrong.
I suppose you could look at it this way: a whole human being starts from just a single fertilized cell, and then all those subsequent cells that come from further division become specialized for specific roles, which essentially limits them to one particular field of action. In much the same way, I think human beings possess immense potential, but for the balance of the system to function on a broader scale, we are somewhat constrained to where we are right now. Anyone who tries to change that, I guess, is acting against a system that is far more powerful than they are individually.
If you happen to be a Christian, you probably know the story of Jesus and what happened to him because he had followers. On the other hand, if you identify as a socialist, you likely know how things usually ended for those who tried to lead a revolution against the established system.

Regardless of whatever path or doctrine someone chooses to follow, I feel that sobriety of mind dictates being cautious; you shouldn't just play around with something so powerful that it holds the entire human race in such a precarious position—in this case, the attempt to remove that "foreign installation," or that impulse where a person tries to free themselves in the physical world from a conditioning and purpose they didn't choose for themselves. From our perspective as undeveloped beings, it might not even matter whether that force is an inorganic entity, an alien, God, the devil, a cosmic law, a formless power, or just a physical process.
Since my interlocutor brought up the idea of a foreign installation himself, I decided to write him a response in a way that I thought might actually mean something to him, for the reasons I’ve mentioned.

As for what someone is actually listening to, there are probably many ways to describe it. Maybe they are listening to a "spirit" or an "abstract principle," or perhaps a divine principle or a literal God; maybe they are listening to the devil, or an inorganic being, or a reptilian influence; maybe they are listening to our own essence, or perhaps a Teacher... it really just depends on the angle from which someone views things and how far they have traveled in their journey of consciousness and spirituality. I wouldn't want to impose my own suggestion on anyone regarding who or what that entity is, because I believe that is something deeply personal. As a person progresses on the path of knowledge, that perspective tends to shift. But what seems certain to me is that because of what happens inside the head—the internal dialogue, thoughts, and emotions—life circumstances and events begin to shift, and something acts upon our lives without our consent. It’s quite difficult to connect these things rationally or to create a synthesis of events that seem completely contradictory, mostly because you need a higher intellectual center to do that. A tiny pebble—like an unconscious thought, word, or emotion—can trigger an entire avalanche that usually ends in someone's suffering. If the avalanche isn't triggered willfully, someone can get caught in it and continue to attract that kind of avalanche. However, an avalanche can also be consciously triggered, perhaps to preemptively address a path before someone else encounters it. Or, an avalanche might be intentionally set in motion just to let whatever is being listened to know that someone has attained a certain level of power or strength and is ready to act, which, I suppose, changes the rules of the game entirely.

restlessdriver said:That's an interesting observation, just explained through a different lens. Thanks. I would only add that I don't feel like every exchange of energy is a bad thing, especially if a group of people is working together toward a common goal or self-improvement. In that scenario, everyone relies on everyone else; if one person falters, they pull the rest down because the "junk" one person fails to clear out affects the whole group. Or, conversely, one person's clean energy can lift everyone else up.

What you're describing—this constant recapitulation and returning of energy—is a bit more of an individualistic approach, a specific technique, much like self-preservation...

I guess you're right, and obviously, not every exchange is a negative thing. I think I left some room for that possibility when I mentioned how someone with free will and awareness could choose what eventually becomes a permanent part of their own makeup, though maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. To be honest, a good portion of my previous "explanation" was probably a bit exaggerated.
The goal isn't emptiness itself, but rather finding high-quality content that is carefully organized and present in just the right amounts.

coastalfalcon61, thanks for the thorough breakdown.

Intellectually, I follow your logic, and this isn't exactly my first encounter with this kind of information. Realizations like these tend to trigger a certain discomfort—though, if I’m being honest, there’s also a deep curiosity from my rational side, which just wants a clear, unambiguous confirmation of what we’re actually dealing with here.

It still leaves me with this heavy sensation, and that nagging question of why we have to struggle through all of this just to exist on a planet like this one. I know I won't find an answer right now, at least not while I'm stuck in this standard "clueless phase" where most people seem to reside.

Unfortunately, I haven't been putting enough effort or time into the "consciousness phase," so for the time being, I'm just left wading through the mental mud.

coastalfalcon61 said:Maybe someone's thorn or their suffering is actually there for a specific reason.

Perhaps we should only help others with their own thorns if some sort of "spirit" or abstract force points us toward them.

Maybe we shouldn't be pulling someone else's thorn at all, but rather just guiding them so they can pull it out using their own strength. If we do it for them, maybe it's just us who moves forward while the person we helped ends up falling behind.

It’s possible that whoever installed that "foreign programming" allows a person to free themselves through their own effort, but will heavily penalize anyone who tries to remove those installations from others. If one chicken escapes the coop, it’s fine because one more bird doesn't change much. But if one chicken helps everyone else escape, that won't go unnoticed and will definitely come with consequences.

Maybe it is...🙂 Who knows... Honestly, I think you’ve dropped some seriously sharp insights here, and not just in this thread either. Seriously, thanks for being so clear and actually willing to share all this! You’ve given me a few new ways to look at things... I used to be way more cautious about using that whole "deep state" concept, but now I'm seeing it differently...🙂 It’s especially frustrating because I feel like I’m just shouting into a void here... I don't see anyone actually talking back to me... Live...!

coastalfalcon61 said:Maybe someone's thorn or their suffering is actually there for a specific reason.

Perhaps we should only help others with their own thorns if some sort of "spirit" or abstract force points us toward them.

Maybe we shouldn't be pulling someone else's thorn at all, but rather just guiding them so they can pull it out using their own strength. If we do it for them, maybe it's just us who moves forward while the person we helped ends up falling behind.

It’s possible that whoever installed that "foreign programming" allows a person to free themselves through their own effort, but will heavily penalize anyone who tries to remove those installations from others. If one chicken escapes the coop, it’s fine because one more bird doesn't change much. But if one chicken helps everyone else escape, that won't go unnoticed and will definitely come with consequences.

I remember reading about Jesus, and honestly, it always feels like it has this happy ending. He went back to His Father. If I try to imagine—and I’m being as humble and imaginative as I can here—what would happen if He just asked if all that suffering was actually worth it... I bet the answer would be a resounding yes. Now, I don't know about those political revolutionaries out there... Was the system actually more powerful than Jesus? Or maybe not...

swiftharbor51

coastalfalcon61, thanks for the deep dive. I get where you're coming from intellectually, really I do... and look, this isn't exactly news to me. I've run into this kind of stuff before. But man, when you first start stumbling onto these truths, it hits you hard. It’s uncomfortable. It actually makes my skin crawl a bit. At the same time, there's this nagging curiosity driving my mind... a desperate need for my rational side to finally get some concrete, undeniable proof of what's actually going on here...
Everything just feels heavy. I’m sitting here wondering why we even have to deal with all this... why we even bother existing on a planet like this one. I know I’m not going to get an answer. Not in this stupid, mindless phase I always seem to find myself stuck in...
Honestly, I’m just not putting enough damn work or time into my "consciousness phase" right now... so for the time being, I guess I'm just stuck wallowing here in the mental mud...

Pure mental sludge... maybe this will actually help you out:



One thing just completely trips me up: humor

Where does it even come from? How is it even possible?! I find it easier to wrap my head around the idea of the > than the existence of >...

boldmason42 said:Maybe it is...🙂 Who knows... Honestly, I think you’ve dropped some seriously sharp insights here, and not just in this thread either. Seriously, thanks for being so clear and actually willing to share all this! You’ve given me a few new ways to look at things... I used to be way more cautious about using that whole "deep state" concept, but now I'm seeing it differently...🙂 It’s especially frustrating because I feel like I’m just shouting into a void here... I don't see anyone actually talking back to me... Live...!

I remember reading about Jesus, and honestly, it always feels like it has this happy ending. He went back to His Father. If I try to imagine—and I’m being as humble and imaginative as I can here—what would happen if He just asked if all that suffering was actually worth it... I bet the answer would be a resounding yes. Now, I don't know about those political revolutionaries out there... Was the system actually more powerful than Jesus? Or maybe not...

swiftharbor51

coastalfalcon61, thanks for the deep dive. I get where you're coming from intellectually, really I do... and look, this isn't exactly news to me. I've run into this kind of stuff before. But man, when you first start stumbling onto these truths, it hits you hard. It’s uncomfortable. It actually makes my skin crawl a bit. At the same time, there's this nagging curiosity driving my mind... a desperate need for my rational side to finally get some concrete, undeniable proof of what's actually going on here...
Everything just feels heavy. I’m sitting here wondering why we even have to deal with all this... why we even bother existing on a planet like this one. I know I’m not going to get an answer. Not in this stupid, mindless phase I always seem to find myself stuck in...
Honestly, I’m just not putting enough damn work or time into my "consciousness phase" right now... so for the time being, I guess I'm just stuck wallowing here in the mental mud...

Pure mental sludge... maybe this will actually help you out:

One thing just completely trips me up: humor

Where does it even come from? How is it even possible?! I find it easier to wrap my head around the idea of the > than the existence of >...

Thanks, but I suppose the only thing actually worth taking from what I wrote is that suggestion of keeping a level head about everything. Maybe that core idea might serve as a bit of inspiration for someone, but honestly, I think the rest of it is just empty talk meant to give the mind something to chew on or maybe just a way to help someone unwind and soften up a little.

boldmason42 said:Maybe it is...🙂 Who knows... Honestly, I think you’ve dropped some seriously sharp insights here, and not just in this thread either. Seriously, thanks for being so clear and actually willing to share all this! You’ve given me a few new ways to look at things... I used to be way more cautious about using that whole "deep state" concept, but now I'm seeing it differently...🙂 It’s especially frustrating because I feel like I’m just shouting into a void here... I don't see anyone actually talking back to me... Live...!

I remember reading about Jesus, and honestly, it always feels like it has this happy ending. He went back to His Father. If I try to imagine—and I’m being as humble and imaginative as I can here—what would happen if He just asked if all that suffering was actually worth it... I bet the answer would be a resounding yes. Now, I don't know about those political revolutionaries out there... Was the system actually more powerful than Jesus? Or maybe not...

swiftharbor51

coastalfalcon61, thanks for the deep dive. I get where you're coming from intellectually, really I do... and look, this isn't exactly news to me. I've run into this kind of stuff before. But man, when you first start stumbling onto these truths, it hits you hard. It’s uncomfortable. It actually makes my skin crawl a bit. At the same time, there's this nagging curiosity driving my mind... a desperate need for my rational side to finally get some concrete, undeniable proof of what's actually going on here...
Everything just feels heavy. I’m sitting here wondering why we even have to deal with all this... why we even bother existing on a planet like this one. I know I’m not going to get an answer. Not in this stupid, mindless phase I always seem to find myself stuck in...
Honestly, I’m just not putting enough damn work or time into my "consciousness phase" right now... so for the time being, I guess I'm just stuck wallowing here in the mental mud...

Pure mental sludge... maybe this will actually help you out:

One thing just completely trips me up: humor

Where does it even come from? How is it even possible?! I find it easier to wrap my head around the idea of the > than the existence of >...

If everything actually played out the way Christian doctrine suggests, or if you look at it from the perspective of a spiritual being like Christ operating from some higher plane of existence, I guess the system wouldn't have been quite so all-powerful.

From where we’re standing, I guess you could argue that the system was actually more powerful than just one man—even someone like Jesus—and that it basically overwhelmed most of humanity in the process. It feels like his death didn't really bring about salvation like people claim; instead, it seems to have triggered this massive wave of suffering and brutality, pushing mankind backward into the dark. Beyond all the violence directed at people, there was also this incredible loss of spiritual wisdom that had been accessible to us for thousands of years, all destroyed in his name. If things truly played out that way, maybe it would have been better if he hadn't died "for everyone," and instead just returned to the Father in quiet solitude. It makes me wonder, too, whether a martyr's death is actually a requirement to reach higher planes of existence or to resolve these "installations," or if there might be some other way to achieve that.
I don't mean to offend anyone, I really don't, but since I'm not a believer myself, I suppose my views might come across as a bit strange to someone who identifies as a Christian.

Maybe it’s just that one individual, someone who truly embodied the essence of Jesus, managed to reach some kind of Buddhist enlightenment or perhaps an even higher state of being, and I guess the rest of the narrative was just added on later to give the whole thing more weight.

Since we’ve already touched on the idea of the "side installation," and now that I’ve found myself looking back at the Bible, I suppose you might agree with my hunch that the whole story about the first humans being cast out of Eden for eating from the Tree of Knowledge is actually describing the exact moment when humanity received that specific "installation"—that shift toward reason, or perhaps a new mind, an organ, or some other kind of fundamental upgrade—which essentially changed what we are as living beings.

coastalfalcon61 said:Thanks, but I suppose the only thing actually worth taking from what I wrote is that suggestion of keeping a level head about everything. Maybe that core idea might serve as a bit of inspiration for someone, but honestly, I think the rest of it is just empty talk meant to give the mind something to chew on or maybe just a way to help someone unwind and soften up a little.

If everything actually played out the way Christian doctrine suggests, or if you look at it from the perspective of a spiritual being like Christ operating from some higher plane of existence, I guess the system wouldn't have been quite so all-powerful.

From where we’re standing, I guess you could argue that the system was actually more powerful than just one man—even someone like Jesus—and that it basically overwhelmed most of humanity in the process. It feels like his death didn't really bring about salvation like people claim; instead, it seems to have triggered this massive wave of suffering and brutality, pushing mankind backward into the dark. Beyond all the violence directed at people, there was also this incredible loss of spiritual wisdom that had been accessible to us for thousands of years, all destroyed in his name. If things truly played out that way, maybe it would have been better if he hadn't died "for everyone," and instead just returned to the Father in quiet solitude. It makes me wonder, too, whether a martyr's death is actually a requirement to reach higher planes of existence or to resolve these "installations," or if there might be some other way to achieve that.
I don't mean to offend anyone, I really don't, but since I'm not a believer myself, I suppose my views might come across as a bit strange to someone who identifies as a Christian.

Maybe it’s just that one individual, someone who truly embodied the essence of Jesus, managed to reach some kind of Buddhist enlightenment or perhaps an even higher state of being, and I guess the rest of the narrative was just added on later to give the whole thing more weight.

Since we’ve already touched on the idea of the "side installation," and now that I’ve found myself looking back at the Bible, I suppose you might agree with my hunch that the whole story about the first humans being cast out of Eden for eating from the Tree of Knowledge is actually describing the exact moment when humanity received that specific "installation"—that shift toward reason, or perhaps a new mind, an organ, or some other kind of fundamental upgrade—which essentially changed what we are as living beings.

Yeah, I noticed that part in the Bible🙂 You asked some good questions, ones I find myself asking all the time. I feel like I'm constantly knocking on doors that have always seemed locked to me... though I don't get too disappointed if they don't open.🙂

It’s wild how many people act like they don't have free will—like they're just some helpless victim to everything happening around them. Newsflash: playing the victim doesn't get you anywhere spiritually. And all this deep philosophy people try to attach to just hanging out? It's simple. People just love overcomplicating things, even basic social stuff.

Paul Diaz54 said:It’s wild how many people act like they don't have free will—like they're just some helpless victim to everything happening around them. Newsflash: playing the victim doesn't get you anywhere spiritually. And all this deep philosophy people try to attach to just hanging out? It's simple. People just love overcomplicating things, even basic social stuff.

It's just complications on top of complications. You can argue whether we actually have free will or if we're just victims of fate—there's no proof either way, at least not that I can see. But honestly, if we're going to pick a side, why not choose to believe we have free will and aren't just playing the victim?

Lately, I've been watching people deal with addictions. Not drugs, but an addiction to negativity.

It creates this weird kind of satisfaction. It’s almost hypnotic, keeping a person trapped in this endless loop where their life force and potential just get sucked dry. A huge part of that hypnosis comes from the constant, repetitive nonsense running through their heads. Why does one person get hooked on being "positive" while another gets addicted to being miserable?🙂

...here I am typing this out, deleting sentences five times over like a damn fool, and now my eggs are burning... they're literally popping like popcorn on the stove...🙂 😲

I guess simplicity wins in the end.

Paul Diaz54 said:It’s wild how many people act like they don't have free will—like they're just some helpless victim to everything happening around them. Newsflash: playing the victim doesn't get you anywhere spiritually. And all this deep philosophy people try to attach to just hanging out? It's simple. People just love overcomplicating things, even basic social stuff.

I suspect we might just be talking past one another here. What you're describing sounds more like willpower from a psychological standpoint—basically just an attribute of the psyche. That kind of will is always conditional on something or other. Even when someone uses it for good or positive reasons, it's still tied to external factors, since its root is ultimately the ego.

What I’m getting at, though, is Will in a spiritual sense—this force that sustains and drives everything, existence, life, and death itself. It seems to have two sides: Intent and Will. One side moves change forward in ways we can't quite explain, while the other maintains whatever new state has been created. This version of Will isn't conditional like the first one, because it isn't driven by logic, lower emotions, or the intellect; I guess you could say its source lies in much deeper, more spiritual realms.

So, actions stemming from mere willpower versus those stemming from true Will are really two completely different worlds. I imagine almost anyone can perform the first kind of action, but the second kind... well, that's probably something only a very rare few can actually do.

Quote: than it is to actually grasp how humor even exists.

boldmason42 says: One thing that honestly leaves me pretty stumped is: humor I mean, I guess it’s almost easier for me to wrap my head around the idea of the Big Bang

That’s an interesting way to look at it... do you suppose it might have something to do with how we're wired?
I can see how people use it and what it's good for, and I realize it can be just as damaging as it is helpful, but I guess I'm just wondering where it actually originates from.

coastalfalcon61 said:Quote: than it is to actually grasp how humor even exists.

boldmason42 says: One thing that honestly leaves me pretty stumped is: humor I mean, I guess it’s almost easier for me to wrap my head around the idea of the Big Bang

That’s an interesting way to look at it... do you suppose it might have something to do with how we're wired?
I can see how people use it and what it's good for, and I realize it can be just as damaging as it is helpful, but I guess I'm just wondering where it actually originates from.

Humor serves a purpose because it engages multiple centers at once, essentially pointing out (un)logic by disrupting established patterns.

The word itself implies that when someone is witty, they possess "spirit." In that sense, humor is just a momentary alignment of higher centers, or at least a more active engagement of them...

coastalfalcon61 said:Quote: than it is to actually grasp how humor even exists.

boldmason42 says: One thing that honestly leaves me pretty stumped is: humor I mean, I guess it’s almost easier for me to wrap my head around the idea of the Big Bang

That’s an interesting way to look at it... do you suppose it might have something to do with how we're wired?
I can see how people use it and what it's good for, and I realize it can be just as damaging as it is helpful, but I guess I'm just wondering where it actually originates from.

Honestly, I have no clue. At this point, the whole thing is just a joke to me...😁

Quincy:

restlessdriver 🙂

restlessdriver said:That's an interesting observation, just explained through a different lens. Thanks. I would only add that I don't feel like every exchange of energy is a bad thing, especially if a group of people is working together toward a common goal or self-improvement. In that scenario, everyone relies on everyone else; if one person falters, they pull the rest down because the "junk" one person fails to clear out affects the whole group. Or, conversely, one person's clean energy can lift everyone else up.

What you're describing—this constant recapitulation and returning of energy—is a bit more of an individualistic approach, a specific technique, much like self-preservation...

Gurdijeff argues that the whole point of "group work" is that your weakest link inevitably surfaces within a group. You simply cannot hide the very things that need overcoming—things you might never even notice if you were working entirely alone. Ultimately, it isn't about hanging out with people just like you. Personally, I'm not much for groups or "group work," but I am willing to face things exactly as they ARE... self-deception only leads to a dead end. Total honesty with oneself and everything else is the key.

I appreciate both your thoughts and the biker's "reflections"—there's a certain integrity in how you both express them.