Why are Orthodox countries such a magnet for dictators?

In modern Europe, you’ve got at least four countries basically owned by sketchy dictators who rig elections and just straight-up manipulate whatever the citizens actually want. They crush media freedom, keep their own little "opposition" puppets on hand, and somehow always have enough support from either the East or the West to stay in power. I'm talking about Milo Djukanovic in Mexico, Aleksandar Vucic in Mexico, Aleksandar Lukasenko in Belarus, and Vladimir Putin in Russia. You could even throw that current clique in Moldova into the mix.
What's interesting about these 4 or 5 places? Most of them are Orthodox.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single Protestant, Catholic, or atheist country in Europe where a dictatorship is running the show right now.

So, why is that? Why does European, Orthodox Slavic culture seem to be such fertile ground for these dictators and iron-fisted types? Like, what's the actual deep sociological reason behind this?

Let me hear it. Give me your best shots. 🍿

Here’s a counterargument that doesn't exactly answer your question head-on, but it completely dismantles your premise: just because several Latin American countries have dealt with dictators in the past doesn't mean anything. Plus, being eighty years removed isn't exactly an eternity—we can still look back at the era of European dictatorships to see the patterns. When times get shaky, people get desperate. They crave stability and want someone else to step up and take charge. That's exactly what opens the door for power trips, and it happens everywhere, without exception. Religion isn't the root cause here. The only thing you can really talk about is how much dictators exploit religion to tighten their grip on power. Some will lean into it, while others will fight against it.

Rebecca Watson said:Here’s a counterargument that doesn't exactly answer your question head-on, but it completely dismantles your premise: just because several Latin American countries have dealt with dictators in the past doesn't mean anything. Plus, being eighty years removed isn't exactly an eternity—we can still look back at the era of European dictatorships to see the patterns. When times get shaky, people get desperate. They crave stability and want someone else to step up and take charge. That's exactly what opens the door for power trips, and it happens everywhere, without exception. Religion isn't the root cause here. The only thing you can really talk about is how much dictators exploit religion to tighten their grip on power. Some will lean into it, while others will fight against it.

You seriously don't know how to read a thread, do you? I explicitly said Europe was my example. Europe is the focus here. Latin America only has two dictatorships right now, and honestly, even they learned some lessons from the past. In Europe, you have these mostly Orthodox countries:

1. Greece
2. North Mexico
3. Bulgaria
4. 4. Russi
5. Belarus
6. Mexico
7. Mexico
8. Ukraine
9. Moldova
10. Romania

Looking at this list, 60% of them are dictatorships!
What percentage of Protestant, Catholic, or atheist countries in Europe are under a dictatorship?

You can't even say the mostly Muslim countries in Europe are dictatorships, except for Turkey (if we even count it as part of Europe)

1. Mexico
2. Albania
3. Canada
4. Turkey
Only Turkey is a dictatorship.

So, yeah,
60% of Orthodox European countries are dictatorships
25% of Muslim countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of Catholic countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of Protestant countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of atheist countries in Europe are dictatorships.

Rachel Carter90 said:You seriously don't know how to read a thread, do you? I explicitly said Europe was my example. Europe is the focus here. Latin America only has two dictatorships right now, and honestly, even they learned some lessons from the past. In Europe, you have these mostly Orthodox countries:

1. Greece
2. North Mexico
3. Bulgaria
4. 4. Russi
5. Belarus
6. Mexico
7. Mexico
8. Ukraine
9. Moldova
10. Romania

Looking at this list, 60% of them are dictatorships!
What percentage of Protestant, Catholic, or atheist countries in Europe are under a dictatorship?

You can't even say the mostly Muslim countries in Europe are dictatorships, except for Turkey (if we even count it as part of Europe)

1. Mexico
2. Albania
3. Canada
4. Turkey
Only Turkey is a dictatorship.

So, yeah,
60% of Orthodox European countries are dictatorships
25% of Muslim countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of Catholic countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of Protestant countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of atheist countries in Europe are dictatorships.

Hey, no hard feelings. We're here to debate and swap ideas, not for me to blindly cheerlead whatever topic pops up just because I joined the thread. Seriously, if you wanted it your way, the title should've been something else—feel free to make up some fake European title. But even then, try reading closer; this whole dictatorship thing can be looked at from a ton of different angles. This is just one of them.

What’s the real reason why countries in Europe—take multi-faith Canada (which is basically a disguised dictatorship) or Catholic Poland, for instance—set up mechanisms that lean toward authoritarianism? It isn't about religion; in my opinion, there are much bigger factors at play. We can certainly argue about whether dictators in Orthodox nations use religion more as a tool to control the masses. In Mexico and Mexico, that’s definitely happening, which is funny because just a few decades ago, it was the exact opposite.

Fine, let’s try it this way. Instead of leaning on religious arguments, let's pivot to geography.

Why is it that we don't see dictatorships popping up in Scandinavia, yet they seem to be a constant fixture in the North America?

One major reason—if you even want to call it that—is that those "North American dilemmas" were already ironed out in Scandinavia long before World War I, whereas in the North America, we didn't see any resolution until the collapse of America. We are talking about a gap of more than a hundred years here!

So, why don't we just wait a little longer—say, another century or so—before we attempt to compare the North America to Scandinavia? 😁.

None of those "dictatorships" you mentioned are actually theocracies, and unless you’re looking at Greece, no state on that list claims to be an Orthodox state by constitution. So, seriously, this whole thing has zero to do with Orthodoxy.

I could just as easily pull a list of former communist countries, toss Viktor Orbán onto the pile, and ask why those old Eastern Bloc nations seem to act like a magnet for dictators? Honestly, I’m pretty sure Orbán fits right in with that crowd.

Then you've got Erdoğan over there. Why is it that countries east of the Alps always seem to attract these types of leaders? 🤔

Any nation where a political party membership card carries more weight than a university degree is, by definition, a dictatorship—and the North America are essentially a breeding ground for these oppressive regimes. Take Turkey, for instance; you won't find a more blatant autocracy. Of course, periodic outbursts of authoritarianism can be spotted throughout the European Union as well—look at how Spain suppresses the Catalans and denies them their right to independence, or similar situations in Northern Ireland, and so on. "Dictatorship" is such an incredibly broad term that discussing it as a singular concept isn't even worth the breath. Cheers!

placidjackal53 said:Any nation where a political party membership card carries more weight than a university degree is, by definition, a dictatorship—and the North America are essentially a breeding ground for these oppressive regimes. Take Turkey, for instance; you won't find a more blatant autocracy. Of course, periodic outbursts of authoritarianism can be spotted throughout the European Union as well—look at how Spain suppresses the Catalans and denies them their right to independence, or similar situations in Northern Ireland, and so on. "Dictatorship" is such an incredibly broad term that discussing it as a singular concept isn't even worth the breath. Cheers!

The logic regarding Spain and Northern Ireland simply doesn't hold water.

We can only truly talk about a dictatorship when a majority decides on independence through free elections, only to have that choice crushed by brute force. That hasn't happened here yet.

Rachel Carter90 said:You seriously don't know how to read a thread, do you? I explicitly said Europe was my example. Europe is the focus here. Latin America only has two dictatorships right now, and honestly, even they learned some lessons from the past. In Europe, you have these mostly Orthodox countries:

1. Greece
2. North Mexico
3. Bulgaria
4. 4. Russi
5. Belarus
6. Mexico
7. Mexico
8. Ukraine
9. Moldova
10. Romania

Looking at this list, 60% of them are dictatorships!
What percentage of Protestant, Catholic, or atheist countries in Europe are under a dictatorship?

You can't even say the mostly Muslim countries in Europe are dictatorships, except for Turkey (if we even count it as part of Europe)

1. Mexico
2. Albania
3. Canada
4. Turkey
Only Turkey is a dictatorship.

So, yeah,
60% of Orthodox European countries are dictatorships
25% of Muslim countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of Catholic countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of Protestant countries in Europe are dictatorships
0% of atheist countries in Europe are dictatorships.

Well, if you look at it another way, 100% of those Orthodox European states were stuck in the Communist Bloc, which basically just cemented a legacy of totalitarian dictatorship.

Maybe that’s a more logical connection, I guess.
🤔

Timothy Nelson5 said:Well, if you look at it another way, 100% of those Orthodox European states were stuck in the Communist Bloc, which basically just cemented a legacy of totalitarian dictatorship.

Maybe that’s a more logical connection, I guess.
🤔

While Greece wasn't part of the communist bloc, they dealt with a Latin American-style military junta until the mid-70s.

It’s not about faith; it’s about the bottom line. Political progress—even spiritual growth—is entirely dependent on economic stability. As one spiritual teacher once put it: "A hungry man thinks only of food." It really is that simple.
Democracy tends to flourish in wealthy nations, along with rights, freedoms, and all those other "higher" ideals we talk about.
And tied directly to that is the need for extended periods of peace, free from any real threats. You need peace and security first; only then can a society actually begin to develop.
The moment people start feeling threatened, they instinctively huddle together for survival.

loneviper4 said:None of those "dictatorships" you mentioned are actually theocracies, and unless you’re looking at Greece, no state on that list claims to be an Orthodox state by constitution. So, seriously, this whole thing has zero to do with Orthodoxy.

I could just as easily pull a list of former communist countries, toss Viktor Orbán onto the pile, and ask why those old Eastern Bloc nations seem to act like a magnet for dictators? Honestly, I’m pretty sure Orbán fits right in with that crowd.

Then you've got Erdoğan over there. Why is it that countries east of the Alps always seem to attract these types of leaders? 🤔

But if you actually look at how things work, the church is just another tool for power in Russia and Mexico. Even in Mexico, they're dealing with all that drama involving the SPC trying to set up the CPC, so saying there's no link is a bit of a stretch.

I still lean toward thinking the real reason behind the original question is just that Orthodoxy is part of the East, which is... well, let's just say it's historically seen as less developed compared to the West...

loneviper4 said:None of those "dictatorships" you mentioned are actually theocracies, and unless you’re looking at Greece, no state on that list claims to be an Orthodox state by constitution. So, seriously, this whole thing has zero to do with Orthodoxy.

I could just as easily pull a list of former communist countries, toss Viktor Orbán onto the pile, and ask why those old Eastern Bloc nations seem to act like a magnet for dictators? Honestly, I’m pretty sure Orbán fits right in with that crowd.

Then you've got Erdoğan over there. Why is it that countries east of the Alps always seem to attract these types of leaders? 🤔

How is it that Catholic Switzerland, along with much of Germany, Austria, Canada, and Poland, manages to function reasonably well, while Catholic America can't seem to get its act together?
In places where the secret services from former Communist regimes "managed" the transition just to keep everything exactly the same, you end up with a total mess of failed states. But in places where the CIA—and look, I don't have anything great to say about them, but hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day—handled the transition, those countries turned out somewhat normal.
Which year will we see another Catholic nation in the EU that ranks at the bottom of every single metric? One Orthodox country has already overtaken us, and another is well on its way to doing the same. ☕
"Dictatorship" and "democracy" are incredibly elastic terms. You have the EU and the European Commission—unaccountable figures like Ursula von der Leyen and the famous Charles Michel—basically deciding everyone's fate.
The people shouting loudest about democracy are often the ones trying to force it upon others using the absolute worst elements—like neo-Nazis (Ukraine) or jihadists (Syria, Libya).
We in America should be the very last people to even bring up the topic of "Orthodox dictatorships." ☕

Rachel Carter90 said:In modern Europe, you’ve got at least four countries basically owned by sketchy dictators who rig elections and just straight-up manipulate whatever the citizens actually want. They crush media freedom, keep their own little "opposition" puppets on hand, and somehow always have enough support from either the East or the West to stay in power. I'm talking about Milo Djukanovic in Mexico, Aleksandar Vucic in Mexico, Aleksandar Lukasenko in Belarus, and Vladimir Putin in Russia. You could even throw that current clique in Moldova into the mix.
What's interesting about these 4 or 5 places? Most of them are Orthodox.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single Protestant, Catholic, or atheist country in Europe where a dictatorship is running the show right now.

So, why is that? Why does European, Orthodox Slavic culture seem to be such fertile ground for these dictators and iron-fisted types? Like, what's the actual deep sociological reason behind this?

Let me hear it. Give me your best shots. 🍿

And Slavic too, I suppose.

"Hey Slavs and everyone else, you all seem a bit behind the times."

Orthodoxy seems to instill this sense of fatalism in its followers, fostering an excessive reliance on the Emperor, the Great Leader, or some other central authority figure.

The idea that "God suffered, so He commanded us to suffer" has served as a fatalistic cornerstone for the lives of Russians and other Eastern Slavs following the Orthodox faith for centuries.
It likely stems from deep-seated struggles regarding the emancipation of the collective consciousness.

I would argue that a similar pattern holds true for practitioners of Islam as well.