What's the move?

"Can something actually be illogical yet reasonable, or maybe logical yet completely irrational? If that’s impossible, then we’re basically saying those two things are identical. But since they clearly aren't—and let's face it, they definitely aren't—then there’s gotta be a middle ground where something can be perfectly sensible despite being totally nonsensical, or vice versa. So, what kind of madness are we talking about here?"

Love, for one! ☺

Steven Brown5 said:"Is it actually possible for something to be totally illogical yet still make sense, or maybe perfectly logical but completely nonsensical? I mean, if you couldn't have one without the other, we’d just be talking about the exact same thing. But since they clearly aren't identical, there’s gotta be a middle ground where things are irrational but feel right, or strictly logical but just plain stupid. What kind of stuff are we even talking about here?"

Love, for starters! ☺

But what exactly is love in this context? Is it "reasonable" even if it lacks logic? Or is it something entirely beyond our grasp, making it neither logical nor reasonable?

The title of the novel Reason and Emotion seems to imply that feelings sit outside the realm of intellect. (As Billy Joel might put it regarding a Woody Guthrie song, "It’s not about brains, it’s about the heart.")

Yet, if we assume emotions don't belong to reason at all, one has to wonder: where exactly does the distinction between being "reasonable" and being "logical" actually lie?

Come now, let us dispense with those little emojis you use to signal that you aren't quite... well, what I suspect you aren't. Let's be clear, shall we? Because unfortunately, basic clarity does not seem to be included in the package alongside your perceived erudition...

Pray, articulate your thoughts using specific instances regarding choices or decisions:

a) what is, for instance, rational, yet falls short of being logical?
b) what is, for example, reasonable, yet fails the test of logic?
c) what is, say, reasonable, but lacks rationality?
d) what is, perhaps, rational, but entirely unreasonable?

e) the interplay between what is reasonable, what is rational, and raw emotion (such as love, hatred, or fear), illustrated through tangible examples.

In short, I am requesting substantive answers via very specific scenarios; otherwise, I shall be forced to conclude that you are simply being obtuse, given those emojis you employ to imply this is all trivial and that you have mastered these nuances effortlessly...

(Of course, it is quite simple enough to isolate logic as a universal constant devoid of affective components... but navigating the remaining boundaries, overlaps, and subsets of these definitions is hardly such a straightforward endeavor.)

Consider these two ways of putting it:

Being a good person is rational.
Being a good person is reasonable.

Setting aside the inherent ambiguity of the word 'good' for a moment...

The first phrasing implies a certain level of calculation—the idea that if you treat others well, they will reciprocate, which feels almost like a mathematical equation or a simple cost-benefit analysis.

The second formulation might actually border on tautology, assuming that the concept of being 'reasonable' already inherently encompasses what is 'good.'

If I were to venture an opinion, I would say that 'rationality' is something cold, purely anchored in logic. Within that specific framework, one could argue that the calculated actions of a high-functioning sociopath are perfectly rational, even if they are anything but reasonable.

We typically associate acts of love with being reasonable, while acts of hatred are viewed as unreasonable (though, one wonders, is it truly 'unreasonable' to despise a criminal?)... yet emotions like fear or disgust seem to exist in some sort of limbo; they don't neatly fit into either category, instead drifting in a gray area that depends entirely on context, or perhaps existing entirely outside the scope of those definitions. Can we even apply the labels of 'reasonable' or 'unreasonable' to a feeling of disgust? If so, does that imply that the realm of the reasonable is limited to only a select few emotions?

Furthermore, is it even possible to love someone rationally or reasonably? Are the two terms even interchangeable in this context?

Or is such a thing considered undesirable? Saying "she loves him rationally" sounds somewhat calculating, which is why people avoid it. Then again, saying "she loves him reasonably" doesn't sound much more natural either; instead, when describing a profound passion, we say she loves him 'madly.' It is as if, for love (perhaps only for Eros?), it becomes desirable to abandon both the rational and the reasonable. Does the concept of what is reasonable actually have room for love at all?

feralranger said:Come now, let us dispense with those little emojis you use to signal that you aren't quite... well, what I suspect you aren't. Let's be clear, shall we? Because unfortunately, basic clarity does not seem to be included in the package alongside your perceived erudition...

Pray, articulate your thoughts using specific instances regarding choices or decisions:

a) what is, for instance, rational, yet falls short of being logical?
b) what is, for example, reasonable, yet fails the test of logic?
c) what is, say, reasonable, but lacks rationality?
d) what is, perhaps, rational, but entirely unreasonable?

e) the interplay between what is reasonable, what is rational, and raw emotion (such as love, hatred, or fear), illustrated through tangible examples.

In short, I am requesting substantive answers via very specific scenarios; otherwise, I shall be forced to conclude that you are simply being obtuse, given those emojis you employ to imply this is all trivial and that you have mastered these nuances effortlessly...

(Of course, it is quite simple enough to isolate logic as a universal constant devoid of affective components... but navigating the remaining boundaries, overlaps, and subsets of these definitions is hardly such a straightforward endeavor.)

Posting this kind of nonsense at 6:00 AM. 😛

Ethan Gomez82 said:Posting this kind of nonsense at 6:00 AM. 😛

Do you truly believe there is any logic to this?

It is, quite frankly, entirely irrational and utterly nonsensical. 😬

Or perhaps I am being too hasty... considering how little time actually elapses during the printing process... hmm...

feralranger said:Do you truly believe there is any logic to this?

It is, quite frankly, entirely irrational and utterly nonsensical. 😬

Or perhaps I am being too hasty... considering how little time actually elapses during the printing process... hmm...

If you're printing counterfeit bills, "rationality" becomes a matter of luck—whether or not you get caught by the FBI. 😁

Ethan Gomez82 said:If you're printing counterfeit bills, "rationality" becomes a matter of luck—whether or not you get caught by the FBI. 😁

Following that particular line of reasoning (though I find myself questioning its validity), one might argue that if you're certain to evade detection, producing high-quality fakes would be the rational choice; however, true rationality would also have to account for the ultimate purpose of the endeavor—whether one intends to use them for some perceived good or just pure mischief...

I’m really enjoying this back-and-forth between hiddenpuma75 and mede 🙂

feralranger said:Come now, let us dispense with those little emojis you use to signal that you aren't quite... well, what I suspect you aren't. Let's be clear, shall we? Because unfortunately, basic clarity does not seem to be included in the package alongside your perceived erudition...

Pray, articulate your thoughts using specific instances regarding choices or decisions:

a) what is, for instance, rational, yet falls short of being logical?
b) what is, for example, reasonable, yet fails the test of logic?
c) what is, say, reasonable, but lacks rationality?
d) what is, perhaps, rational, but entirely unreasonable?

e) the interplay between what is reasonable, what is rational, and raw emotion (such as love, hatred, or fear), illustrated through tangible examples.

In short, I am requesting substantive answers via very specific scenarios; otherwise, I shall be forced to conclude that you are simply being obtuse, given those emojis you employ to imply this is all trivial and that you have mastered these nuances effortlessly...

(Of course, it is quite simple enough to isolate logic as a universal constant devoid of affective components... but navigating the remaining boundaries, overlaps, and subsets of these definitions is hardly such a straightforward endeavor.)

1) Regarding points c and e, I have to say I'm actually quite surprised you think there’s any distinction between being reasonable and being rational. To me, they're essentially synonyms, though I’d certainly welcome someone explaining the difference to me 🤔

2) As for point e, I want to state quite firmly that love isn't an emotion. An emotion is being infatuated, or feeling attraction, or feeling anger or fear.
I think I've finally grasped the true distinction between infatuation and love, which seems to be something many people struggle to understand..
Love is a state of being and an act of will; it is NOT an emotion OR a feeling.
The enlightened Bernadette Roberts explains this much better than I ever could—she's honestly the only female genius I've encountered in my search for the truths of the universe and the significance of the number 42

http://www.example.com/showpost.php?p=7...1&postcount=78

3)
A long time ago, back when I was young, handsome, and blissfully ignorant, I started a thread on an old message board titled

Why did Brad and Jennifer and Brad and Angelina break up, but your mom and dad didn't...
with the subtitle :

And why didn't your parents leave you, even though your girlfriends and boyfriends did? 😉

https://www.example.com/showthread.php?t=79232

hiddenpuma75 said:1) Regarding points c and e, I have to say I'm actually quite surprised you think there’s any distinction between being reasonable and being rational. To me, they're essentially synonyms, though I’d certainly welcome someone explaining the difference to me 🤔

2) As for point e, I want to state quite firmly that love isn't an emotion. An emotion is being infatuated, or feeling attraction, or feeling anger or fear.
I think I've finally grasped the true distinction between infatuation and love, which seems to be something many people struggle to understand..
Love is a state of being and an act of will; it is NOT an emotion OR a feeling.
The enlightened Bernadette Roberts explains this much better than I ever could—she's honestly the only female genius I've encountered in my search for the truths of the universe and the significance of the number 42

http://www.example.com/showpost.php?p=7...1&postcount=78

3)
A long time ago, back when I was young, handsome, and blissfully ignorant, I started a thread on an old message board titled

Why did Brad and Jennifer and Brad and Angelina break up, but your mom and dad didn't...
with the subtitle :

And why didn't your parents leave you, even though your girlfriends and boyfriends did? 😉

https://www.example.com/showthread.php?t=79232

Just consider these two sentences:

A serial killer rationally planned every single one of his attacks—how he would approach his victim undetected, how he would commit the crime, and how he would erase every trace of his presence...

A serial killer reasonably planned every single one of his attacks—how he would approach his victim undetected, how he would commit the crime, and how he would erase every trace of his presence...

The second version strikes a rather discordant note, whereas the first passes without much trouble, wouldn't you agree?

Pura's acting surprised by this nonsense again. 😁

hiddenpuma75 said:1) Regarding points c and e, I have to say I'm actually quite surprised you think there’s any distinction between being reasonable and being rational. To me, they're essentially synonyms, though I’d certainly welcome someone explaining the difference to me 🤔

2) As for point e, I want to state quite firmly that love isn't an emotion. An emotion is being infatuated, or feeling attraction, or feeling anger or fear.
I think I've finally grasped the true distinction between infatuation and love, which seems to be something many people struggle to understand..
Love is a state of being and an act of will; it is NOT an emotion OR a feeling.
The enlightened Bernadette Roberts explains this much better than I ever could—she's honestly the only female genius I've encountered in my search for the truths of the universe and the significance of the number 42

http://www.example.com/showpost.php?p=7...1&postcount=78

3)
A long time ago, back when I was young, handsome, and blissfully ignorant, I started a thread on an old message board titled

Why did Brad and Jennifer and Brad and Angelina break up, but your mom and dad didn't...
with the subtitle :

And why didn't your parents leave you, even though your girlfriends and boyfriends did? 😉

https://www.example.com/showthread.php?t=79232

They aren't exactly wealthy Hollywood stars sending over trainloads of toys.
Regarding that—it all comes down to evolutionary psychology. 😁

I watched this video, and honestly, it’s pretty much what I expected. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it gets the point across without being too loud about it. There aren't many surprises here, which might be a downside if you're looking for something groundbreaking, but it serves its purpose. It's fine. Not life-changing, just fine.

Quincy:

And why didn't your parents walk out on you, yet your girlfriend and that guy did? 😉

Nobody’s ever really walked out on me, but if I had to pinpoint why—I’d probably blame evolutionary psychology. 😁
Biology textbooks. 😳

Don't overthink it.

bluemason3 said:Pura's acting surprised by this nonsense again. 😁

They aren't exactly wealthy Hollywood stars sending over trainloads of toys.
Regarding that—it all comes down to evolutionary psychology. 😁

I watched this video, and honestly, it’s pretty much what I expected. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it gets the point across without being too loud about it. There aren't many surprises here, which might be a downside if you're looking for something groundbreaking, but it serves its purpose. It's fine. Not life-changing, just fine.

Quincy:

And why didn't your parents walk out on you, yet your girlfriend and that guy did? 😉

Nobody’s ever really walked out on me, but if I had to pinpoint why—I’d probably blame evolutionary psychology. 😁
Biology textbooks. 😳

Don't overthink it.

This is such a great video. 👍

Because

A man's character is tested when he has everything.
A woman's character is tested when her man has nothing.

feralranger said:Come now, let us dispense with those little emojis you use to signal that you aren't quite... well, what I suspect you aren't. Let's be clear, shall we? Because unfortunately, basic clarity does not seem to be included in the package alongside your perceived erudition...

Pray, articulate your thoughts using specific instances regarding choices or decisions:

a) what is, for instance, rational, yet falls short of being logical?
b) what is, for example, reasonable, yet fails the test of logic?
c) what is, say, reasonable, but lacks rationality?
d) what is, perhaps, rational, but entirely unreasonable?

e) the interplay between what is reasonable, what is rational, and raw emotion (such as love, hatred, or fear), illustrated through tangible examples.

In short, I am requesting substantive answers via very specific scenarios; otherwise, I shall be forced to conclude that you are simply being obtuse, given those emojis you employ to imply this is all trivial and that you have mastered these nuances effortlessly...

(Of course, it is quite simple enough to isolate logic as a universal constant devoid of affective components... but navigating the remaining boundaries, overlaps, and subsets of these definitions is hardly such a straightforward endeavor.)

Maybe you just aren't quite intellectually imaginative enough to come up with even ten different reasons why I used those "emojis" (which were actually facepalms, let's be real), or maybe there's something else going on there.

You're entitled to your opinion, though it's a shame yours happens to be wrong.

Also this:

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/how...ffense-0309174

I’ve never really been able to get into Bill Burr, to be honest. I think I might just be a little burnt out on that particular style of comedy after a while. That said, there are definitely some absolute legends in that genre who managed to pull off something truly iconic.

hiddenpuma75 said:This is such a great video. 👍

Because

A man's character is tested when he has everything.
A woman's character is tested when her man has nothing.

Men are truly tested when women start using emotional blackmail and demanding justice. The Taliban wouldn't have an issue with 😁

I think Bill Burr is alright. He can be a bit of an idiot and a total jerk sometimes—but let's be honest, there aren't many better options out there right now. Most of the time he actually makes me laugh (though his second-to-last special was a bit of a miss for me). Overall, he's my favorite Norm.