I've lost my drive. What do I do?

Being a freelancer or holding a high-level position gives you the freedom to set your own schedule, which sounds a lot better than the standard 8-hour grind. But there are traps. An 8-hour job guarantees a paycheck whether you're healthy or sick, and if a company folds, you just find another one. When you're your own boss, that "flexible time" quickly disappears into endless meetings, chasing unpaid invoices, and hunting down new clients. You end up with very little actual work time left, unless you start paying someone else to handle the tasks you actually signed up for. Mastering all of that is a real skill.

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Joseph Bailey41 said:She just grew up. At the end of the day, a job is there to pay the bills, not necessarily to be this high-octane, thrilling adventure. Honestly, I think people who claim their career is the absolute center of their universe either have pretty empty lives or they're just not being truthful. 😁

👍

ruggedmarlin18 said:That is a terrible reason to have children.

Living without kids doesn't make us incomplete!

Our time isn't being wasted either, since I've got enough pets, hobbies, travels, and books to keep anyone from ever getting bored, as long as they actually care about stuff outside of their nine-to-five!

The idea about the hobby is solid. 👍

I never stated that people are incomplete without children. 😬
I simply meant that it is one possible way to find purpose (though certainly not the only way). 😁 😉
Raising a child is something that can bring immense joy.

@Joseph Bailey41, the larger the corporation, the more sociopaths you'll find lurking in the halls, unfortunately. 😁

Jesse Barnes69 said:Being a freelancer or holding a high-level position gives you the freedom to set your own schedule, which sounds a lot better than the standard 8-hour grind. But there are traps. An 8-hour job guarantees a paycheck whether you're healthy or sick, and if a company folds, you just find another one. When you're your own boss, that "flexible time" quickly disappears into endless meetings, chasing unpaid invoices, and hunting down new clients. You end up with very little actual work time left, unless you start paying someone else to handle the tasks you actually signed up for. Mastering all of that is a real skill.

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Exactly. And with certain freelance gigs, you don't even build up seniority or benefits, your credit score can take a massive hit when you try to deal with banks, and getting people to actually pay you is a whole different nightmare. From a purely financial standpoint, the sweet spot is having a low-stress full-time job while picking up side projects on the side. The problem is, doing both is exhausting. It’s almost impossible to maintain that pace long-term without burning out or risking your health. 😁

Joseph Bailey41 said:Exactly. And with certain freelance gigs, you don't even build up seniority or benefits, your credit score can take a massive hit when you try to deal with banks, and getting people to actually pay you is a whole different nightmare. From a purely financial standpoint, the sweet spot is having a low-stress full-time job while picking up side projects on the side. The problem is, doing both is exhausting. It’s almost impossible to maintain that pace long-term without burning out or risking your health. 😁

I’ve tried that approach, and honestly, it’s tough to balance with kids—there just aren't enough hours in the day. Plus, my main job is becoming increasingly demanding; expectations are rising, but my paycheck isn't keeping pace. I'm considering going freelance, but I'm hesitant. If I actually had a solid skill set to fall back on, maybe. But when you don't have anyone to cover for you, even a vacation feels more like a stressful race to catch up on backlog rather than actual rest.

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Rachel Richardson said:👍

I never stated that people are incomplete without children. 😬
I simply meant that it is one possible way to find purpose (though certainly not the only way). 😁 😉
Raising a child is something that can bring immense joy.

@Joseph Bailey41, the larger the corporation, the more sociopaths you'll find lurking in the halls, unfortunately. 😁

It’s not about how many of them there are; it’s about how fast they climb the corporate ladder. 😁

There's actually a certain charm to working at a tiny two-person startup, too. Usually, the boss is a prime specimen of the common bottom-feeder species, and the company suddenly becomes "family" when it's time to grind through overtime, but never when it's time to split the loot. ☕

Joseph Bailey41 As stated by:
My corporation is just so incredibly benevolent that they’ve actually gone out of their way to show concern for the digestive health of their employees. Specifically, they’ve seen fit to decorate the interior of the restroom stalls with various proclamations regarding our corporate vision and mission statements. Honestly, who wouldn't want to contemplate the company's grand strategic direction while they're sitting there? It’s truly touching. ☕

This is absolutely appalling. Honestly, someone ought to compose a biting parody to account for this kind of absurdity.

To be perfectly honest, I harbor a certain level of disdain for those employees who seem to derive some sort of misplaced sense of fulfillment from their corporate identity. They carry themselves with this nauseating enthusiasm for their company's "brand," acting less like independent professionals and more like the quintessential brown-nosers you’d encounter in an elementary school hallway, desperate for a gold star from the teacher.

I have already taken a look at this—quite angrily, I might add—and reached the firm conclusion that the damage to one's health isn't something you can simply undo once it's been done.😁

Let it be. 🙂

Unless you’re currently drowning in childcare costs, suffocating under a mountain of debt, or playing full-time caregiver to a critically ill relative, there is absolutely no logical reason to tolerate a job that leaves you perpetually stressed or mind-numbingly bored. It completely defeats the entire purpose of employment, which is to earn the capital required to make your life more comfortable. Unfortunately, we haven't yet found a way to strip that middleman—money—out of the equation, though people constantly attempt to bypass it using all sorts of psychological gymnastics, trying to forge some direct link between labor and immediate gratification. Of course, capitalist propaganda is more than happy to facilitate this delusion; its primary objective is to manufacture a fleet of compliant drones who won't demand actual raises, but will instead be pacified by "team-building" retreats, free gym memberships, routine wellness checks, office Wi-Fi on company phones, or those pathetic little holiday gift baskets. My own corporation, despite dumping massive amounts of cash into every single one of those superficial perks, viewed my repeated requests for a meaningful salary increase as an "inappropriate expense." Consequently, the only math that actually works for me right now is to work less. I spend my energy mastering the subtle art of minimizing my presence at my desk and finding clever ways to minimize my actual workload, all while staying just within the lines necessary to avoid getting fired without severance. At this stage, my sense of satisfaction comes from those small strategic victories—and, frankly, from the rapid proliferation of posts I manage to churn out during business hours. 😍

Just consider the sheer fulfillment found in certain callings. Imagine a professor who finds genuine joy in mentoring his students, only to have an adult walk into his office years later to tell him that those very lectures sparked a lifelong passion and inspired them to pursue the field as a career. Or think of a pianist who performs at local weddings, finding deep satisfaction in effortlessly picking up a melody on the fly and weaving it into the atmosphere. Even look at a physician who finds such profound purpose in patient care that he radiates a sense of genuine empathy, becoming the kind of person everyone in the community speaks of with nothing but reverence.

It’s those same old grievances that people tuck away in the back of their minds until they’re absolutely fed up with the daily grind, or they suddenly drag them into the light the moment their personal lives start falling apart.

Jesse Barnes69 said:I agree, and I'd add that in certain fields—especially the so-called "creative" ones—this mindset is treated like a taboo. You're labeled untalented or a failure if you aren't constantly performing some act of genius. Nobody wants to admit that in creative roles, maybe 10% of the work is actually pure creativity. The rest is just grinding through admin and managing finances.

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My entire education following elementary school has been within the arts. Throughout that whole period, they kept hammering home the same tired narrative: that the "famous inspiration" or pure creative spark accounts for that tiny ten percent, while everything else is just endless, repetitive labor. 🤷 In my view, anyone who actually approaches artistic work with any degree of seriousness or true quality isn't going to buy into this myth of constant, nonstop creativity. Those people are just posers, and frankly, there are far too many of them out there.

It’s that classic, heavy-as-hell imbalance where you’re constantly sacrificing your personal life just to keep the business side afloat. But honestly—what is even the point of all this? Are we really grinding just to hit some millionaire status right before we retire? Or is the whole idea to actually live—to hang out with friends, grab a drink, and actually show up to things? There’s a time to hustle and there’s a time to chill, period. If your body is totally burnt out, it’s screaming at you to take a break. I mean, if you're obsessively focused on work 24/7, aren't you basically just living like a hermit?

Steven Murphy2 said:It’s that classic, heavy-as-hell imbalance where you’re constantly sacrificing your personal life just to keep the business side afloat. But honestly—what is even the point of all this? Are we really grinding just to hit some millionaire status right before we retire? Or is the whole idea to actually live—to hang out with friends, grab a drink, and actually show up to things? There’s a time to hustle and there’s a time to chill, period. If your body is totally burnt out, it’s screaming at you to take a break. I mean, if you're obsessively focused on work 24/7, aren't you basically just living like a hermit?

Just being yourself, staying true to who you are and living your own life... honestly, don't sweat what anyone else thinks—most people are stuck in their own little bubbles and won't get you anyway... and besides, there's nothing you can really do to change that...

Harold Wilson5 said:I’m not quite sure where to begin this story.

Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always been ahead of the curve. School was honestly too easy for me—even through high school—so I would breeze through with straight A's without much effort. To keep things interesting and feed my ambition, I’d constantly push myself by entering competitions and taking on extra extracurricular activities.
Eventually, I decided to pursue a demanding university degree that would finally offer a real challenge and set the stage for a solid career path.
Back then, I had this clear vision of myself as a high-powered executive or running my own company.

Everything changed during my college years when my brother passed away suddenly. That was the turning point for me.
It was almost like a sudden realization hit me: so many things in life just aren't worth the stress. For instance, I stopped feeling guilty about postponing an exam or even failing one if I felt like it.
Even so, I managed to graduate on time and landed a great job.

At the same time, while we were always close, I found myself growing even closer to my parents. They mean the world to me, and now, I have a wonderful husband and our family life is incredibly harmonious.

Now, after five years on the job, I’m feeling something I’ve never felt before: complete burnout. Even though my job is dynamic and actually pretty cool, I feel like there just aren't enough hours in the day to enjoy my own life.
I suppose it’s a combination of
- the fact that nothing feels challenging enough anymore. I work way faster than my colleagues, so I'm left with a choice: either pull a double workload for the same pay, or spend half my shift surfing the web or reading, which eventually gets boring.
- my brother's passing and the realization that my happiest moments are spent with family and friends. Now, those eight hours at the office—plus the hour or so I spend commuting—feel like wasted time.
- the fact that my husband and I managed to get ahead of our finances early on, especially regarding our housing situation, so I don't have that crushing financial pressure forcing me to stay.
- the age gap at work; most of my colleagues are much older, so there isn't really any social buzz or grabbing drinks after work—it's just strictly showing up for eight hours and leaving.
- watching the bosses and owners grind for ten or more hours every single day, living in constant stress over monthly targets.

I caught myself thinking the other day that by my late thirties or early forties, I’d much rather work just four hours a day at a relaxed pace, maybe something remote, or even just retire early to focus on being present for my family, future children, and friends.
I honestly have no idea where that ambitious girl went—the one who wanted to be number one and a leader in her field.

I don't know what I want from this thread. Maybe I just need to vent, or perhaps I want to see if others have gone through this. Was this just a phase for you, or did it stick?

If I may venture an opinion, I would argue that you have simply evolved in a rather positive direction. This obsession with careerism is typically just a symptom of internal emptiness; someone whose primary objective is merely to "be famous" shares the exact same aim as those desperate enough to audition for some mindless Big Brother house. Though, if we are being honest, one might even suggest that the contestant on CNN is slightly more intelligent, given they actually found a functional shortcut to achieve that same hollow goal of notoriety.

You’re looking at ambition all wrong.
You say you’d rather skip the grind entirely by age 40 just to hang out with friends and family.
In reality, that’s basically saying you want to retire early. To pull that off, you’d have to build massive wealth or set up multiple passive income streams before you hit 40. We're talking having a net worth of, say, $5 million just to live without checking your bank account every morning.

Hitting a target like that requires a level of discipline, expertise, and sheer grit that makes your college ambitions look like child's play.

I will simply say that I envy you and anyone else who has managed to shed that heavy, forced burden we call ambition.

I find myself in a somewhat similar position, though I wouldn't label myself as exceptional except in the specific areas that truly captured my interest. Now, approaching my 40s, I hold a solid mid-level management role at my company with clear opportunities for upward mobility; professionally speaking, I haven't hit my ceiling, but quite frankly, I have no desire to climb higher. I am perfectly content where I am currently situated. While a promotion would certainly mean a larger paycheck, it would also bring significantly more responsibility, and I find that I much prefer prioritizing my family, spending quality time with my parents as they visibly age, traveling, and enjoying life without constant stress. To be blunt, I have no intention of dedicating more than four hours a day to my career. I operate strictly on a "minimum input, maximum output" principle, and that is exactly how I plan to manage my workload until I eventually retire.
That being said, I am in no rush to reach retirement because I genuinely enjoy the work I do.

feralranger said:If I may venture an opinion, I would argue that you have simply evolved in a rather positive direction. This obsession with careerism is typically just a symptom of internal emptiness; someone whose primary objective is merely to "be famous" shares the exact same aim as those desperate enough to audition for some mindless Big Brother house. Though, if we are being honest, one might even suggest that the contestant on CNN is slightly more intelligent, given they actually found a functional shortcut to achieve that same hollow goal of notoriety.

If my memory serves me right, you argued something pretty similar regarding college education once before.

For me, personally, it’s about doing things I actually care about and find meaningful, even if it means dealing with financial instability. I won't rule out the possibility of changing my mind in a few years, but this dirty little game I keep running into is something I've never quite figured out how to handle... The Ultimate Goal isn't to conquer the world, it's just finding that sweet spot between what I love and whatever keeps the lights on. 😁

Roger Kern16 said:If my memory serves me right, you argued something pretty similar regarding college education once before.

For me, personally, it’s about doing things I actually care about and find meaningful, even if it means dealing with financial instability. I won't rule out the possibility of changing my mind in a few years, but this dirty little game I keep running into is something I've never quite figured out how to handle... The Ultimate Goal isn't to conquer the world, it's just finding that sweet spot between what I love and whatever keeps the lights on. 😁

I highly doubt I ever claimed anything remotely 'similar.' Back when I was actually in a position to hire people, I found it far more vital to prioritize actual competence over a mere diploma held by someone lacking any real expertise—and believe me, those individuals are everywhere. It’s quite simple logic, really: if an individual possesses a degree but lacks the underlying knowledge, they are essentially useless in any practical context; and if they lack intelligence to boot, their future prospects are practically non-existent. You might have been aiming for a parallel there, but I fail to see the connection to this discussion.

Roger Kern16 said:If my memory serves me right, you argued something pretty similar regarding college education once before.

For me, personally, it’s about doing things I actually care about and find meaningful, even if it means dealing with financial instability. I won't rule out the possibility of changing my mind in a few years, but this dirty little game I keep running into is something I've never quite figured out how to handle... The Ultimate Goal isn't to conquer the world, it's just finding that sweet spot between what I love and whatever keeps the lights on. 😁

...well, that is perfectly acceptable...

My critique was specifically directed at that fixation on "becoming famous," which I find entirely hollow; therefore, I suspect the original poster hasn't lost anything of value by moving away from it—if she has indeed lost anything at all—but has instead gained something significant...

Joseph Bailey41 said:My corporation is just so incredibly thoughtful that they actually care about the digestive health of their employees. Seriously, they’ve gone and plastered our mission statement and corporate vision right inside the bathroom stalls. Honestly, who wouldn't want to be inspired while they're sitting there? ☕

I've already taken a look at this (and honestly, a bit angrily), and I've come to the conclusion that health damage isn't necessarily permanent.😁

Unless you’re juggling kids, a massive mortgage, or caring for a sick family member, there really isn’t any reason to put up with a job that just stresses you out or bores you to tears. It defeats the whole purpose of working, which is to make enough money to actually enjoy your life. Unfortunately, we can't exactly skip the middleman—the paycheck—but people still try to find ways to bypass it using all sorts of mental gymnastics, trying to create this direct link between their labor and immediate gratification. Capitalism is happy to help with that, too. It pushes this propaganda designed to turn employees into compliant drones who won't ask for more money because they're too distracted by "perks." We're talking team-building retreats, free gym memberships, routine wellness checks, office Wi-Fi, or some cheesy holiday sweater. My own corporation has dumped a fortune into all those little extras, yet when I actually asked for a raise—which I’ve done several times now—they treated it like an unreasonable expense. So, right now, the only math that makes sense for me is to work less. I’ve started finding little ways to shorten my time at the desk and minimize my actual workload, all while staying just within the lines so I don't get fired without severance. Honestly, my only source of satisfaction lately comes from these little strategic games—and the rapid increase in how many Reddit posts I can squeeze in during office hours. 😍

Maybe, if work isn't strictly about survival, the solution is just to scale back what you want and expect from life. I get it, though... it's incredibly hard in this high-tech, hyper-advanced world where consumerism and materialism are shoved in our faces 24/7, at every corner, in every nook and cranny.

Joseph Bailey41 said:I think it's that blue section on the diagram. It's essentially about the need for respect. If you already have enough self-esteem, you don't need to go hunting for validation from others, which lets you focus entirely on self-actualization. Of course, that assumes your paycheck is high enough to cover those first two levels of Maslow's hierarchy—your basic physiological needs and your sense of security.

Even Maslow ended up tweaking his pyramid because he realized that treating self-actualization as the sole ultimate destination was a bit hollow. That's why he added transcendence at the very top.

casualcanyon3 said:

Joseph Bailey41 As stated by:
My corporation is just so incredibly benevolent that they’ve actually gone out of their way to show concern for the digestive health of their employees. Specifically, they’ve seen fit to decorate the interior of the restroom stalls with various proclamations regarding our corporate vision and mission statements. Honestly, who wouldn't want to contemplate the company's grand strategic direction while they're sitting there? It’s truly touching. ☕

This is absolutely appalling. Honestly, someone ought to compose a biting parody to account for this kind of absurdity.

To be perfectly honest, I harbor a certain level of disdain for those employees who seem to derive some sort of misplaced sense of fulfillment from their corporate identity. They carry themselves with this nauseating enthusiasm for their company's "brand," acting less like independent professionals and more like the quintessential brown-nosers you’d encounter in an elementary school hallway, desperate for a gold star from the teacher.

I have already taken a look at this—quite angrily, I might add—and reached the firm conclusion that the damage to one's health isn't something you can simply undo once it's been done.😁

Let it be. 🙂

Unless you’re currently drowning in childcare costs, suffocating under a mountain of debt, or playing full-time caregiver to a critically ill relative, there is absolutely no logical reason to tolerate a job that leaves you perpetually stressed or mind-numbingly bored. It completely defeats the entire purpose of employment, which is to earn the capital required to make your life more comfortable. Unfortunately, we haven't yet found a way to strip that middleman—money—out of the equation, though people constantly attempt to bypass it using all sorts of psychological gymnastics, trying to forge some direct link between labor and immediate gratification. Of course, capitalist propaganda is more than happy to facilitate this delusion; its primary objective is to manufacture a fleet of compliant drones who won't demand actual raises, but will instead be pacified by "team-building" retreats, free gym memberships, routine wellness checks, office Wi-Fi on company phones, or those pathetic little holiday gift baskets. My own corporation, despite dumping massive amounts of cash into every single one of those superficial perks, viewed my repeated requests for a meaningful salary increase as an "inappropriate expense." Consequently, the only math that actually works for me right now is to work less. I spend my energy mastering the subtle art of minimizing my presence at my desk and finding clever ways to minimize my actual workload, all while staying just within the lines necessary to avoid getting fired without severance. At this stage, my sense of satisfaction comes from those small strategic victories—and, frankly, from the rapid proliferation of posts I manage to churn out during business hours. 😍

Just consider the sheer fulfillment found in certain callings. Imagine a professor who finds genuine joy in mentoring his students, only to have an adult walk into his office years later to tell him that those very lectures sparked a lifelong passion and inspired them to pursue the field as a career. Or think of a pianist who performs at local weddings, finding deep satisfaction in effortlessly picking up a melody on the fly and weaving it into the atmosphere. Even look at a physician who finds such profound purpose in patient care that he radiates a sense of genuine empathy, becoming the kind of person everyone in the community speaks of with nothing but reverence.

It’s those same old grievances that people tuck away in the back of their minds until they’re absolutely fed up with the daily grind, or they suddenly drag them into the light the moment their personal lives start falling apart.

My entire education following elementary school has been within the arts. Throughout that whole period, they kept hammering home the same tired narrative: that the "famous inspiration" or pure creative spark accounts for that tiny ten percent, while everything else is just endless, repetitive labor. 🤷 In my view, anyone who actually approaches artistic work with any degree of seriousness or true quality isn't going to buy into this myth of constant, nonstop creativity. Those people are just posers, and frankly, there are far too many of them out there.

True. I've met people who were naturally gifted in certain arts but lacked the drive or the guts to show it to the world. Then there are the talented ones who work their tails off but just can't catch a break. On the flip side, I know people with zero talent who have endless grit, but they managed to rub elbows with the right social circles, and suddenly they're being promoted by the elite and so on...

Harold Wilson5 said:Thanks everyone for the unexpectedly positive responses and for being so understanding! 🙂

A lot of people suggested I should switch careers or that my current job just isn't fulfilling, but that's not quite it. That’s why it was actually pretty hard for me to pinpoint the exact issue and even start this thread, though I think Joseph Watson3 and addx really hit the nail on the head regarding the core problem.
I actually enjoy my profession, but this whole concept of working a rigid 8-hour day—regardless of whether it's productive or necessary—just doesn't sit right with me. I feel like I could utilize my skills much more intelligently if I could just distribute them throughout the day (and yes, that would include work).

This is truly eye-opening (and not the first time you've said something like this).
I assume you were in the exact same situation, because this resonates 100%.
Now I just need to figure out what the alternative actually looks like. I suppose it happens gradually rather than all at once?

Well, that was just an illustration to say I didn't see myself as just middle management, but rather at the top—not for the sake of others, but because everything felt so easy for me that aiming higher felt like a more challenging goal. 🙂

Exactly. That's the fundamental flaw in the modern workforce.
Even if the work itself is engaging or fulfilling, being forced to subordinate your entire life to a rigid schedule—spending your eight or nine best hours of peak productivity tethered to a specific desk—basically ruins the whole experience.
Quotation:

This is genuinely eye-opening (and not the first time you've said something like this). I suspect you've been in this exact position before, because I relate to this 100%. Now I just need to figure out what the actual alternative looks like. I assume it's a gradual transition rather than an overnight shift?

Not really—my jobs have always been more creative and liberated than the average role (given it's science), but even then, it isn't quite the utopia people make it out to be.
That said, I'm well-acquainted with the lives of corporate drones through others' experiences, and I firmly believe it's better to learn from someone else's mistakes than your own.😁

analogorca6 said:You’re looking at ambition all wrong.
You say you’d rather skip the grind entirely by age 40 just to hang out with friends and family.
In reality, that’s basically saying you want to retire early. To pull that off, you’d have to build massive wealth or set up multiple passive income streams before you hit 40. We're talking having a net worth of, say, $5 million just to live without checking your bank account every morning.

Hitting a target like that requires a level of discipline, expertise, and sheer grit that makes your college ambitions look like child's play.

You've clearly watched too many movies. You can generate an income comparable to an average American salary with assets worth a few hundred thousand dollars—say, owning two or three rental properties (not to mention other smarter investment options).

Jeffrey Ramos4 said:Maybe, if work isn't strictly about survival, the solution is just to scale back what you want and expect from life. I get it, though... it's incredibly hard in this high-tech, hyper-advanced world where consumerism and materialism are shoved in our faces 24/7, at every corner, in every nook and cranny.

Even Maslow ended up tweaking his pyramid because he realized that treating self-actualization as the sole ultimate destination was a bit hollow. That's why he added transcendence at the very top.

True. I've met people who were naturally gifted in certain arts but lacked the drive or the guts to show it to the world. Then there are the talented ones who work their tails off but just can't catch a break. On the flip side, I know people with zero talent who have endless grit, but they managed to rub elbows with the right social circles, and suddenly they're being promoted by the elite and so on...

I’ve never quite been able to wrap my head around consumerism, even after digging through works by Chomsky and Naomi Klein. That way of existing just feels foreign to me. Still, I feel like I need to find some way to ramp up my drive for material things, because right now, my motivation is basically stuck at "barely surviving." And just when I finally manage to push myself toward that kind of ambition, something distracts me and I’m right back at square one, leaving my business plan unfinished. 🙂

Jeffrey Ramos4 said:Maybe, if work isn't strictly about survival, the solution is just to scale back what you want and expect from life. I get it, though... it's incredibly hard in this high-tech, hyper-advanced world where consumerism and materialism are shoved in our faces 24/7, at every corner, in every nook and cranny.

Even Maslow ended up tweaking his pyramid because he realized that treating self-actualization as the sole ultimate destination was a bit hollow. That's why he added transcendence at the very top.

True. I've met people who were naturally gifted in certain arts but lacked the drive or the guts to show it to the world. Then there are the talented ones who work their tails off but just can't catch a break. On the flip side, I know people with zero talent who have endless grit, but they managed to rub elbows with the right social circles, and suddenly they're being promoted by the elite and so on...

Yeah, though even the concept of the pyramid itself is debatable. Just reading the description of the second level gives me a slight sense of panic, whereas this higher stuff seems to work perfectly fine for me. 🤔

Jeffrey Ramos4 said:Maybe, if work isn't strictly about survival, the solution is just to scale back what you want and expect from life. I get it, though... it's incredibly hard in this high-tech, hyper-advanced world where consumerism and materialism are shoved in our faces 24/7, at every corner, in every nook and cranny.

Even Maslow ended up tweaking his pyramid because he realized that treating self-actualization as the sole ultimate destination was a bit hollow. That's why he added transcendence at the very top.

True. I've met people who were naturally gifted in certain arts but lacked the drive or the guts to show it to the world. Then there are the talented ones who work their tails off but just can't catch a break. On the flip side, I know people with zero talent who have endless grit, but they managed to rub elbows with the right social circles, and suddenly they're being promoted by the elite and so on...

While I was moving in those circles, I ran into this one completely untalented hack. But the guy worked incredibly hard to worm his way into every social circle possible, and because of that, he actually picked up several awards for his work. He once started listing all these accolades to me, and I just rolled my eyes and said, "Well, it's not exactly a sprint." His response? "No, it really is a sprint." 🤦

What’s even more ridiculous is that it was an art form that was financially terrible; you basically had to jump through every humiliating hoop just to reach a point where you could barely make a living from it. For me, it was just a hobby and a nice way to socialize, so I couldn't fathom how anyone would be motivated by nothing but blind ambition or that desperate craving for recognition. After seeing a few similar situations play out, I decided to get out of that crowd. Running for the exits, of course.😁

I happened to stumble upon them on Facebook the other day. Some antitalent made such a massive blunder that they were permanently kicked out of the circle, but the thick-skinned guy just keeps on going regardless. Honestly, seeing that makes me appreciate those corporate mission and vision statements even more. 😁

Jeffrey Ramos4 said:Maybe, if work isn't strictly about survival, the solution is just to scale back what you want and expect from life. I get it, though... it's incredibly hard in this high-tech, hyper-advanced world where consumerism and materialism are shoved in our faces 24/7, at every corner, in every nook and cranny.

Even Maslow ended up tweaking his pyramid because he realized that treating self-actualization as the sole ultimate destination was a bit hollow. That's why he added transcendence at the very top.

True. I've met people who were naturally gifted in certain arts but lacked the drive or the guts to show it to the world. Then there are the talented ones who work their tails off but just can't catch a break. On the flip side, I know people with zero talent who have endless grit, but they managed to rub elbows with the right social circles, and suddenly they're being promoted by the elite and so on...

And frankly, those types usually end up making something of themselves. Even 😁 Vitruvius touched upon this concept—the notion that talent carries very little weight if you aren't connected to the right power players.
For me, this presents a significant dilemma, because even engaging in basic, everyday small talk requires me to switch into a specific social mode that I find utterly draining. As for the crowd I would actually need to network with—particularly those personalities drifting through the "popular" art scene—I find them profoundly unappealing. I have gone to great lengths to avoid them entirely. I simply cannot stomach that pervasive snobbery, the arrogance, and that performative, "elite" posturing; honestly, I often feel an impulse to mock them to their faces. I can count on one hand the number of people from that echelon whom I actually respect and with whom I would genuinely desire to maintain a sincere connection.

Edit: What I was really getting at is that socializing with "influential" figures must essentially become a lifestyle if you want to be noticed or to ensure a broad spectrum of opportunities. But in that pursuit, how much of your true self can you actually manage to preserve?

When you’re young, your only real responsibility is hitting the books, which makes it incredibly easy to stay ambitious and let your imagination run wild without any constraints.

But once adulthood actually hits and you find yourself navigating the grind of paying bills, cooking every meal, and keeping up with the laundry, the dream starts to shift! Then you show up to work and have to deal with all sorts of difficult personalities that just don't mesh with yours—leading to constant friction—and to top it all off, you realize someone who barely finished high school is pulling in a much higher salary than you are! It’s at that moment that all those lofty ambitions begin to fade as the cold, hard reality of real life finally settles in.

In short, you’ve officially grown up and stepped into the real world.

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casualcanyon3 said:And frankly, those types usually end up making something of themselves. Even 😁 Vitruvius touched upon this concept—the notion that talent carries very little weight if you aren't connected to the right power players.
For me, this presents a significant dilemma, because even engaging in basic, everyday small talk requires me to switch into a specific social mode that I find utterly draining. As for the crowd I would actually need to network with—particularly those personalities drifting through the "popular" art scene—I find them profoundly unappealing. I have gone to great lengths to avoid them entirely. I simply cannot stomach that pervasive snobbery, the arrogance, and that performative, "elite" posturing; honestly, I often feel an impulse to mock them to their faces. I can count on one hand the number of people from that echelon whom I actually respect and with whom I would genuinely desire to maintain a sincere connection.

Edit: What I was really getting at is that socializing with "influential" figures must essentially become a lifestyle if you want to be noticed or to ensure a broad spectrum of opportunities. But in that pursuit, how much of your true self can you actually manage to preserve?

If you’re capable—meaning you know how to pick your battles or engineer your own path toward some specific goal—you might not even bother asking if you can still hold onto some 'different' (read: incompetent) version of yourself. Meanwhile, those who can't calculate or act with purpose usually just obsess over their one "great talent," whatever that may be. They spend all their energy pointing at those "successful" people out there, basically repackaging their own inadequacy as some kind of external injustice. It's their way of saying their high-quality talent just never got its big break because of bad luck or some rigged system...

Picture this: out in the middle of nowhere, two totally different types of people are running from a pack of wild dogs. They manage to dodge them for days, but eventually, exhaustion sets in. Both realize that "wisdom" without actual strength isn't going to last long. After weighing the cost of their own lives versus someone else's, they both come to a decision about what to do next. One guy thinks about climbing a tree and pushing the other down to feed the dogs, giving himself a head start while they're distracted by the meal. Maybe if he feeds them enough, they'll leave him alone...

The other guy is thinking about climbing that same tree and just letting the dogs have him, sacrificing himself to give the first guy a chance to escape. If he satisfies their hunger, maybe they won't go after the other guy either...

In this scenario, the first guy—who’s usually been a total loser or an underdog his whole life—suddenly finds that being cold and calculating feels like the most logical, valuable thing to do in a crisis. As for the guy who's normally capable of looking out for himself and stepping over anyone in his way, he suddenly sees himself as this noble hero, finally completing his life's journey by sacrificing everything for some nobody...

As for the wild dogs, if they don't find a more realistic way to deal with their hunger, they'll probably just starve to death. At the end of the day, whether you're a person or a dog, everyone—regardless of who they are—is primarily focused on one thing: staying alive...

Literally just surviving. Staying yourself. Though, when things are comfortable and easy, it's sometimes hard to recognize that "universal" self. Without all the labels and "this type of person" or "that type of person" nonsense based on circumstances, who are we really? And maybe, just maybe, that person was right all along. Maybe the whole point of existing isn't about holding onto that one "true" self, but about losing it... losing that singular identity in favor of something bigger. Entropy and death would probably just nod in agreement...

Joseph Bailey41 said:I’ve never quite been able to wrap my head around consumerism, even after digging through works by Chomsky and Naomi Klein. That way of existing just feels foreign to me. Still, I feel like I need to find some way to ramp up my drive for material things, because right now, my motivation is basically stuck at "barely surviving." And just when I finally manage to push myself toward that kind of ambition, something distracts me and I’m right back at square one, leaving my business plan unfinished. 🙂

Yeah, though even the concept of the pyramid itself is debatable. Just reading the description of the second level gives me a slight sense of panic, whereas this higher stuff seems to work perfectly fine for me. 🤔

While I was moving in those circles, I ran into this one completely untalented hack. But the guy worked incredibly hard to worm his way into every social circle possible, and because of that, he actually picked up several awards for his work. He once started listing all these accolades to me, and I just rolled my eyes and said, "Well, it's not exactly a sprint." His response? "No, it really is a sprint." 🤦

What’s even more ridiculous is that it was an art form that was financially terrible; you basically had to jump through every humiliating hoop just to reach a point where you could barely make a living from it. For me, it was just a hobby and a nice way to socialize, so I couldn't fathom how anyone would be motivated by nothing but blind ambition or that desperate craving for recognition. After seeing a few similar situations play out, I decided to get out of that crowd. Running for the exits, of course.😁

I happened to stumble upon them on Facebook the other day. Some antitalent made such a massive blunder that they were permanently kicked out of the circle, but the thick-skinned guy just keeps on going regardless. Honestly, seeing that makes me appreciate those corporate mission and vision statements even more. 😁

Maybe you don't actually need to ramp up the drive for more stuff. Maybe the trick is just lowering your baseline desires and needs. Aim for an acceptable minimum—not quite bare-bones survivalist mode, provided you’ve got a steady paycheck. Unless, of course, you're stuck working for peanuts or minimum wage while drowning in debt... that changes things. But for most people, there isn't much foresight. They aren't really thinking ahead at all. They just chase after these milestones because they feel obligated to, simply because everyone else is doing it. It creates this classic modern cycle: people jump into marriages way too young and emotionally unprepared. Then kids happen. Driven by social pressure or just "the way things are done," they tie the knot, only to end up divorced shortly after—often with much darker complications like domestic abuse or toxic cycles... When people lack internal stability, they try to fill that void with material things. But when you point out how senseless, inefficient, and genuinely harmful these behavioral patterns are—to both the individual and society at large—they don't listen. They just retreat behind their defense mechanisms...

casualcanyon3 said:And frankly, those types usually end up making something of themselves. Even 😁 Vitruvius touched upon this concept—the notion that talent carries very little weight if you aren't connected to the right power players.
For me, this presents a significant dilemma, because even engaging in basic, everyday small talk requires me to switch into a specific social mode that I find utterly draining. As for the crowd I would actually need to network with—particularly those personalities drifting through the "popular" art scene—I find them profoundly unappealing. I have gone to great lengths to avoid them entirely. I simply cannot stomach that pervasive snobbery, the arrogance, and that performative, "elite" posturing; honestly, I often feel an impulse to mock them to their faces. I can count on one hand the number of people from that echelon whom I actually respect and with whom I would genuinely desire to maintain a sincere connection.

Edit: What I was really getting at is that socializing with "influential" figures must essentially become a lifestyle if you want to be noticed or to ensure a broad spectrum of opportunities. But in that pursuit, how much of your true self can you actually manage to preserve?

Moving through these various creative circles, have you noticed any predictable patterns in how people act or their general personality traits based on the specific medium they work in? I’ve been picking up on some trends myself—granted, it’s just a tiny, statistically insignificant sample size, and I’m certainly not saying this applies to everyone, but it’s an interesting observation... It seems like photographers tend to be incredibly extroverted and high-energy types. Writers and literary folks often lean toward being more reserved, sometimes even coming off as a bit condescending. Then you have the actors and singers, who often strike me as vulnerable narcissists with a tendency toward self-destructive habits... and painters usually seem more withdrawn and emotionally sensitive. Maybe there’s actually some formal research out there on this...